From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V4 #164 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Tuesday, May 26 1998 Volume 04 : Number 164 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Madonna on Oprah [00jnweiser@bsuvc.bsu.edu] Re: Ida Bittova ["mr. pointy" ] catching up (long) [meredith ] Re: catching up (long) [Riphug ] Abra Moore [Sherlyn Koo ] Re: Abra Moore [meredith ] Re: natalie merchant's _Ophelia_ ["Owen L. Magee" ] Re: catching up (long) [Richard ] Re: Abra Moore ["mr. pointy" ] Re: catching up (long) [Neal Copperman ] ecto-announce and ecto-forsale ["mr. pointy" ] Re: Ida Bittova [Joseph Zitt ] Re: catching up (long) [Neal Copperman ] Re: catching up (long) [Joseph Zitt ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 16:57:44 -0500 (EST) From: 00jnweiser@bsuvc.bsu.edu Subject: Madonna on Oprah Madonna will be on the Oprah Winfrey show this Friday and it's brand new. :) Jessica http://adam.nettfriends.com/Jess Current Obsessions: - -Jen's poetry (painfulconvictions, jen :) - -Beth Water's music - -Writing ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 18:53:02 -0400 From: "mr. pointy" Subject: Re: Ida Bittova also sprach Valerie Kraemer: >I've been really intrigued by the discussion of Ida Bittova during the last >few weeks. This is a review from today's (Friday, May 22) New York Times of >a recent performance of hers at the knitting factory. after some hemming and hawing, i did make it to this show. as others have said, iva bittova's performance is quite an interesting performance. rather than just reiterate everything that neal said, i'll just refer you to his post since he touched on pretty much everything i wanted to comment on and his reaction more or less mirrored mine. >Ms. Bittova is a true cosmopolitan, but she remains grounded in local >expressions, and her own physicality. She takes on the role of the singer >as town crier whose voice animates old myths and current news. Ms. >Bittova's town is her self, ruled by the rhythms of sexuality, the flights of >her imagination and the realities of modern social life. That she issues >most reports in Czech hardly reduces their impact. methinks that the new york times reviewer doth wax too poetic. ;) all kidding aside though, iva bittova's performance has gotten me (uh oh) thinking (perhaps too much) about art and music and the relationship between the two. from seeing her play, it's quite evident that someone without musical talent and skill could not have played the violin as she does. however, the sounds that she produces, while certainly unconventional, don't *sound* particularly challenging to make. without the benefit of the live performance, one could have easily mistaken her music (or the music of many other composers and producers of "new music") for that of a beginner just learning how to play their instrument. i don't have any musical training, so there are likely to be nuances that i am missing (i'm just one of those oddballs who likes to have his ears challenged by stuff that doesn't sound normal), but it makes me wonder about how one is "supposed" to react to experimental and abstract, so to speak, musical art. basically, what does one listen for? woj n.p. susan james -- shocking pink banana seat ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 19:22:33 -0400 From: meredith Subject: catching up (long) Hi! Well, it's past time for me to do a Klaus. I've just deleted about 400 messages out of my ecto box, but there's still a few things I'd like to respond to. I've tried to keep it all relatively recent. This weekend I've been rediscovering both of Emily Bezar's albums, in preparation for making a sampler tape for Veda Hille, whose interest Sue Trowbridge and I managed to pique in the chat last week. :) It's all part of a broader conspiracy to get Emily and Veda to play together on the same bill sometime, though with my luck it'd happen in San Francisco and I'd have no way to get there. Gods, but they're both excellent discs. I think I prefer _Moon In Grenadine_, because it's more musically diverse and doesn't fade into the background as easily as _Grandmother's Tea Leaves_ does, but that's only apparent when listening to them both in succession. A long time ago, Valerie Nozick posited about the Falcon Ridge Folk Fest: >Alright, all these messages are seriously piquing my interest. I don't want to >be the organizer (I'm way too busy with AIDS Ride stuff, and my track record >with concerts precludes me from organizing this thing), but I'd be very >interested in an ecto road trip to see the festival. I'm thinking of one or two >hotel rooms, shared by ecto folks. Anyone interested in sharing hotel rooms and >going to the festival? Post to ecto or drop me a line at valerie@smoe.org. I haven't really seen much of a response here ... but I'm definitely into it! I don't think there's much hope of getting a motel room, as I only recall seeing one motel in the general vicinity and as far as I know it gets booked up with performers that weekend. I'd be into setting up an ecto camping area, though, as woj and I have this tent we bought for FRFF two summers ago, and we've only used it that once. :) Valerie, did anyone else get back to you on this off-list? Now would be the time to make plans, as ticket prices are going to go up soon and I'd like to get in early if possible. What do y'all say? Yves reported: >Let's fast forward to the following thursday where the "usual >suspects" met for the Susan McKeown concert in CT>. That would be Middletown. :) At the state mental hospital, no less - the Buttonwood Tree has taken to renting out the auditorium in the administration building for musical performances that are expected to attract more than 30 people. It's rather odd, but it's a nice space. >Anyway, the first part was made >of new (for me) songs from _Bushes & Briars_ and Susan's music is not >the kind that attracts me instantly so I didn't enjoy it as much as I >would have if I have known the music already. Wow - I guess she's been performing those "new songs" so much, they all seem like old standards to me - I forget that she's never actually recorded "Seven Cold Glories", "Fuck You", "Ballanaboula" and the other non-_Bones_ original songs she's been doing for a long time now. Trust me, they grow on you quickly. :) "Seven Cold Glories" is one of my favorite songs by anyone, ever. >But the second part was >mainly composed of old songs and it sent me flying high. This is when >I realised how lucky I was, being in this small intimate venue in the >US, enjoying wonderful music with friends I have met IRL for the first >time a couple of days earlier but who had already hosted me and drove >me from NYC to Boston. This ecto thing is amazing! :-) Isn't it, though? :) We all had a really good time too. >So far, I *love* the Nields (try to work a full day with _Taxi girl_ on >loop you this is an enjoyable experience but your coworkers will >doubt your sanity) Hah! I can relate, though I don't listen to music at work I have had "Taxi Girl" on a loop in my car often enough. Have you listened to all of the discs you bought by now? Carolyn posted: >I know Susan McKeown is playing St. Anne's on June 11, and the Fleadh at >Randall's Island on Saturday/Sunday. > >But, what's going on on Friday 12th and Monday 15th?? (I'll be staying >down by 1st & 1st - close to the whole variety of clubs down off Houston) Robyn Hitchcock is at The Bottom Line on the 12th, if you're into that. I know woj is going to both shows - I don't know if I'm going. On the 13th I'll be foregoing the Fleadh to go to The Nields' Jam For The Van up in western MA. (Speaking of which, is anyone else here thinking of going to that? I'm sure there will be room in the car if anyone wants to road trip.) There seems to always be something going on at Arlene Grocery and The Living Room. I'm sure you won't be wanting for things to see while you're in town. :) Jill exclaimed: >Oooo! I just found out who will be performing at the Michigan Womyn's Music > Festival! Here's the lineup: Hey, that's cool! Now -- when is it? :) There wasn't a date on your listing. Rachel passed along: >The July issue of VOGUE is out on the stands, just picked it up to some >very done up pics. The order is : Sarah McLachlan, K's Choice, N'Dea >Davenport, (group photo): Chantal Kreviazuk/Kay Hanley/Rebekah/Bic >Runga/Tara MacLean, Mary Lou Lord, Missy Elliott, Liz Phair. This is the Levis ad spread, right? I have to say I'm definitely with Kevin on this one. I was lukewarm on attending Lilith before, but now I think I'm downright apathetic. Sigh. Juha reviewed: >Veda Hille: Women in (E)motion - live >Wow. This is good. I'm surprised at how much I like this record really... >I was a bit apprehensive before buying it as descriptions of Veda Hille's >music always seemed to mention jazz, and I definitely am not that fond of >jazzy music in general - I admit to not understanding/feeling whatever it >is one is supposed to understand/feel about it (besides, I have an >inexplicable dislike for the sound of most wind instruments). I guess "jazzy" really isn't the most appropriate adjective to describe Veda's music (especially when you're talking about _Spine_). I would use it to describe _Path of a Body_, though, if only because she's prone to include sections of pseudo-improvised piano in the middle of her songs that does have a jazzy feel to it, but it's not "jazz" per se. I'm sure that makes no sense whatsoever. :} You should definitely pick up her other albums, though - I'm sure you won't be disappointed! Valerie Kraemer posted: >I've been really intrigued by the discussion of Ida Bittova during the last >few weeks. This is a review from today's (Friday, May 22) New York Times of >a recent performance of hers at the knitting factory. Argh. Argh, argh, argh. After hearing woj's raves and reading all the reviews here, I'm *really* kicking myself for not making more of a concerted effort to get down to the Knitting Factory last Tuesday night. It turns out I could've made it because she ended up not going on until 8:30, but I assumed the show really was going to start at 8 and decided not to try. I ended up going to the Mercury Lounge early, and while Mark Geary did a nice set and all, I would have much rather seen Iva Bittova. Argh. :P Oh well. Live and kick thyself in the head. Jessica fonted: >Alanis is also playing God in Kevin Smith's new movie. Interesting :) Ares is making a movie?!? (Oh - wrong Kevin Smith. Never mind. ;) >Jewel said on MTV that she did record an album 2 years ago but is >planning to go back into the studio in August and release it by >November. I wonder if that lost album is *ever* going to see the light of day. Sigh. Neal mentioned: >I had an insanely full weekend. Hey, for once I'm not the one saying that! I actually feel good about this. ;) Re Kristin Hersh: >I'd seen her before, so I knew what to expect, and that's what I got. >Drop dead hilarious between song patter followed by songs performed in a >trance with frightening intensity. Seriously, the instant a song starts, >her spirit seems to leave the stage. She stares fixedly at a point above >the audience in the middle of the room, and her eyes go blank and >completely glaze over. You can see her personality come and go with the >songs. It's kind of scary, isn't it? I should be used to that by now too, since she was exactly the same way when performing with Throwing Muses, but it remains unsettling. >Her face is a mask, with no sign of emotion when she's singing, but >with plenty of intensity and feeling in the singing and playing. When she >stops, the sparkle returns to her eyes, a smile skips across her mouth, >and she launches into some hilarious story. Sounds like she's pulling from the same bag of stories all across this tour. They're no less funny for all that, though. Did she mention that her 6-year-old is also "tight with Satan"? Did she tell the one about Vic Chestnutt performing in London, and the sheep? How about the "dead lesbians on their wedding day" story from Sweden? I swear, the woman could have her own HBO special. I'd subscribe to HBO just to see it, too. :) Re Patty Griffin: >That was something that bothered me. I liked hearing the lyrics on the >songs, and I wasn't thrilled to see her voice get absorbed into a rock and >roll mix. That aside, she can certainly rock with abandon, and most of >the songs were raucous good fun. Some stood out on first impression >(particularly the title track of the forthcoming album, Flaming Red). But does she still yell at people? That's what makes _Living With Ghosts_ completely unlistenable for me - after a while I just want her to STOP SCREAMING AT ME. I haven't dared ever see her play live for the same reason. It sounds like the music is finally catching up to her vocal decibel level, but I'm not entirely sure that's a good thing. Re Veda Hille: >Sounds like you had a great evening meth. Sometime I'll have to treck up >to NYC for one of those things. I can't believe I still haven't seen Veda >live. Does she ever play anywhere beside Vancouver, Seattle and NYC? Plans are for her to play a lot more places besides those cities, yes. She already plays across Canada quite a bit, but that doesn't do us much good. :) I wouldn't be surprised if a D.C./Baltimore area gig were to materialize somewhere. I guess it'll depend on what kind of airplay _Spine_ is getting, and where. But there's always New York! There will probably be at least one gig with the band in NYC at the end of June, as well as perhaps something in and around CT around the same time. Nothing is concrete yet, but I'm sure I'll get the news as soon as it is. You *must* do whatever you can to see her play live. She'll blow you away. >> Hell, I I wish I'd audiotaped CLB's >> set, but I didn't think about it until it was too late. :P Oh well. > >Well, it won't be nearly the same as having Veda Hille sit in, but I'll be >taping her show from the soundboard at Iota on Sunday, and you are welcome >to a tape of it..... Cool. :) Let's talk. I'll gladly tape Veda's Nightbirds set for you. (For that matter, if anyone else is interested in that, drop me a line.) I guess that's more than enough for now... +==========================================================================+ | Meredith Tarr meth@smoe.org | | New Haven, CT USA http://www.smoe.org/~meth | +==========================================================================+ | "things are more beautiful when they're obscure" -- veda hille | | *** TRAJECTORY: the Veda Hille mailing list *** | | *** http://www.smoe.org/meth/trajectory.html *** | +==========================================================================+ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 20:02:40 EDT From: Riphug Subject: Re: catching up (long) In a message dated 5/25/98 7:28:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, meth@smoe.org writes: << Jill exclaimed: >Oooo! I just found out who will be performing at the Michigan Womyn's Music > Festival! Here's the lineup: Hey, that's cool! Now -- when is it? :) There wasn't a date on your listing. >> Hmm......it's at the end of August......here's the URL to find all the information you need: http://www.michfest.com/ Jill :D ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 10:58:53 +1000 (EST) From: Sherlyn Koo Subject: Abra Moore Hey folks - The other week I picked up Abra Moore's "Strangest Places", which absolutely positively blew me right away. So, now I'm going to order "Sing"... could anybody advise me as to whether I should get some Poi Dog Pondering stuff as well? And if so, which? TIA - :) sherlyn =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= a+e=ig Sherlyn Koo - sherlyn@fl.net.au [Sydney, Australia] "This is the song that we are always just this side of singing..." - Peter Mulvey ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 21:40:39 -0400 From: meredith Subject: Re: Abra Moore Hi! Sherlyn fonted: >The other week I picked up Abra Moore's "Strangest Places", >which absolutely positively blew me right away. So, now >I'm going to order "Sing"... could anybody advise me as to >whether I should get some Poi Dog Pondering stuff as well? >And if so, which? Ooh, yes, definitely. Personally I find _Strangest Places_ to be the weakest thing Abra Moore has ever been involved with. I liked _Sing_ *much* better, and Poi Dog Pondering is all pretty good. As for specific albums, I have to confess I'm not familiar enough with their body of work to single out one particular disc, but I've liked everything of theirs I've heard. I'm sure others here can give you more specific recommendations. Hope this helps, +==========================================================================+ | Meredith Tarr meth@smoe.org | | New Haven, CT USA http://www.smoe.org/~meth | +==========================================================================+ | "things are more beautiful when they're obscure" -- veda hille | | *** TRAJECTORY: the Veda Hille mailing list *** | | *** http://www.smoe.org/meth/trajectory.html *** | +==========================================================================+ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 20:54:23 -0500 From: "Owen L. Magee" Subject: Re: natalie merchant's _Ophelia_ On Sun, May 24, 1998 at 09:38:09PM -0400, meredith wrote: [Natalie Merchant _Ophelia_ stuff snipped] > I hate the packaging, though. I can deal with the > environmentally-friendly cardboard digipak, but the photos on the cover > and all the way through it are just stupid. They show Natalie in all > sorts of weird costumes and poses, for no apparent reason whatsoever. > The liner notes say that they're "from a film by Mark Seliger & Fred > Woodward", and I'm guessing that film is a video for one of the songs, > but I'm not 100% sure of that. Well, I've always been on the outer edge of Natalie Merchant fandom, but I think the photos are hilarious. I always thought Natalie was too serious for her own good, so I'm glad to see that she can lighten up. Also, I think those photos are supposed to be all the personas in the song "Ophelia" (hard to make everything out without the lyrics, and I haven't listened that closely, but I seem to remember "convent bells", "circus girl", etc.). > And there's no lyrics, which I always find annoying. One of the > pleasures of bringing home a new CD, for me, is opening it up and > reading along with the lyric booklet as the album unfolds for the first > time. I hate when I can't do that. Heh...Like with Paula Cole _This Fire_. Just what _is_ she saying in that middle part of "Feeling Love"? :) > I don't know exactly why, but I just *like* what Natalie Merchant does, > usually no matter what she's doing. As with _Tigerlily_, I don't think > she's going to win any new fans with _Ophelia_, but if any other old-timers > are like me, they're going to be quite pleased with this one as well on > general principle. I've never been overwhelmed by Natalie before, but the strings have hooked me on this album. I like it quite a bit. And I agree that the "Ophelia Reprise" is wonderful. Makes me wonder what Natalie could do with an instrumental album. Owen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 22:05:46 -0500 From: Richard Subject: Re: Land of the Blind is FAMOUS! >From Jill :D: > Hey! I was just shopping at CD Now and under the New Releases section I > spotted Land of the Blind's "Out of the Chaos" for sale! Cyoakha is > famous!!!!! > > If you haven't heard this album from our very own ecto-girl Cyoakha, you > really should order it! Yes, Yes!! I got adventurous and took Cyoakha up on her $5/$10 offer last December, and found myself gladly sending the larger amount- _Out Of The Chaos_ is, IMO, the epitome of Ecto, Happy notwithstanding.. :), and I would highly recommend it to anyone with any sense of the ethereal at all... It still has a major spot in my CD rotation and has perked up the ears of a number of my aquaintences. And it doesn't hurt that you can query her on things like the meaning of _Hungarian Blue_ via email and get a prompt reply... If you don't already have this gem, what the hell are you waiting for?? ;-) - -- n.p. Hummel: Piano Concerto in A minor, Stephen Hough, Bryden Thomson, English Chamber Orchestra ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 21:36:21 -0500 From: Richard Subject: Re: catching up (long) Meredith replied to Juha: > I guess "jazzy" really isn't the most appropriate adjective to describe > Veda's music (especially when you're talking about _Spine_). I would use > it to describe _Path of a Body_, though, if only because she's prone to > include sections of pseudo-improvised piano in the middle of her songs that > does have a jazzy feel to it, but it's not "jazz" per se. I'm sure that > makes no sense whatsoever. :} No, it doesn't make sense , but I think you're right- I find it difficult to refer to Veda as jazz, and I've been listening to jazz for some 30 years now, and there *are* elements in _Spine_ that suggest it... mostly the "pseudo-improvised piano" breaks you referred to; But I really see her more as a partisan of the Brecht/Lotte Lenya stuff of the 20s & 30s... Listening to her, I find myself in hazy galleries populated by flappers and Man Ray types and a shadowed figure working a Theramin- Just my personal reaction to an incredibly provocative artist who I finally got to hear with her USA release of _Spine_. Regarding the Falcon Hill Folk Festival, I managed to get my spouse interested , and since it's not that far away from Portland , we might actually make it, but I have a long way to go in convincing her that not all people one meets on the Inet are axe murderers and pedophiles , so I hold open a chance to meet some of you, but I don't hold my breath.... **sigh** :) And regarding the EWS list I posted here last month, the surprise obsession resulting has turned out to be Kristin Hersh; I've found _Hips and Makers_ and particularly _Strange Angels_ to be the 2 CDs I can't put down... Yeah yeah, Throwing Muses unplugged, and there's a certain monotony to both albums, but I find *way* more there, and I don't know exactly what it is, but I'm driving my family nuts with it..... :) I also think Holly McNarland is one very talented musician. - -- r n.p. Bruce Cockburn: _The Charity of Night_ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 22:58:22 -0400 From: "mr. pointy" Subject: Re: Abra Moore also sprach meredith: >Ooh, yes, definitely. Personally I find _Strangest Places_ to be the >weakest thing Abra Moore has ever been involved with. I liked _Sing_ >*much* better, i didn't care much for _strangest places_ the first few listens, probably becasue it was a bit of a change of direction for abra, but i like it now - -- it's a decent guitar pop record. >and Poi Dog Pondering is all pretty good. As for specific >albums, I have to confess I'm not familiar enough with their body of work >to single out one particular disc, my personal preferences are a self-titled ep, another ep called _circle round the sun_ (these two eps are collected on a self-titled album), and the album _wishing like a mountain and thinking like the sea_. i kinda of lost interest with the album after that, _volo volo_ (though i can not say if it was the music or me which caused that). i'm also pretty partial to the earliest poi stuff, all of which is on cassette and rather hard to come by (i have dubs, not originals) and the albums by frank orral did under the name "hat makes the man". similar in style, but also pretty hard to find. if you want copies, let me know. woj n.p. ingrid karklins -- anima mundi (oddly enough) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 23:11:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Neal Copperman Subject: Re: catching up (long) On Mon, 25 May 1998, Richard wrote: > And regarding the EWS list I posted here last month, the surprise > obsession resulting has turned out to be Kristin Hersh; I've found > _Hips and Makers_ and particularly _Strange Angels_ to be the 2 CDs I > can't put down... Yeah yeah, Throwing Muses unplugged, and there's a > certain monotony to both albums, but I find *way* more there, and I > don't know exactly what it is, but I'm driving my family nuts with > it..... :) I don't remember if it was on your list of purchases or not, but if you didn't also pick up Strings, you should definitely snag it. It's got 5 songs from Hips and Makers in dramatically different orchestrated versions, a couple songs not on either solo disc, and a cover of Led Zepellin's When The Levee Breaks. A wonderful little disc. Neal np: Elvis Costello & The Attractions - The Best of ... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 23:08:10 -0400 From: "mr. pointy" Subject: ecto-announce and ecto-forsale also sprach Yves Denneulin: >While we are on the topic of ecto spinoff lists there was some >discussion some time ago about a "info only" version of ecto. there is a nascent-but-unactivated ecto-announce list already set up at smoe, so it would not be hard to get this going if there is interest. so, if anyone thinks that this would be worthwhile, please let me know and we can get it going. similarly, we'd be happy (ha ha) to start a ecto-forsale (for lack of a better name) list where ectophiles could post lists of cds they are trying to sell. there seemed to be a lot of interest in this a while back, but nothing seems to have come of it. personally, i'd not mind ectophiles just posting their lists here or posting an url where a list could be found on the web -- i can't imagine that enough lists would be posted to inundate ecto, but some people may not want to see lists here for whatever reason. woj ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 23:19:04 -0400 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Ida Bittova mr. pointy wrote: > from seeing her play, it's quite evident that someone without musical > talent and skill could not have played the violin as she does. however, the > sounds that she produces, while certainly unconventional, don't *sound* > particularly challenging to make. without the benefit of the live > performance, one could have easily mistaken her music (or the music of many > other composers and producers of "new music") for that of a beginner just > learning how to play their instrument. That's an interesting question, and one that's batted about a *lot*. The answer is kinda intangible: as a bottom line, the question of musicality doesn't boil down to how quickly one can twiddle one's fingers on an interface (Yngwie Malmsteen et al notwithstanding) but what one does with each note. John Cage wrote some utterly beautiful music for toy piano, after all. To quote Bill Evans's liner notes for Miles Davis's "Kind of Blue"
There is a Japanes visual art in which the artist is forced to be spontaneous. He must paint on a thin stretched parchment with a special brush and black water paint in such a way that an unnatural or interrupted stroke will destroy the line or break through the parchment. Erasures or changes are impossible. These artists must practice a particular discipline, that of allowing the idea to express itself in communication with their hands in such a direct way that deliberation itself cannot interfere. The resulting pictures lack the complex composition and textures of ordinary painting, but it's said that those who see will find something captured that escapes explanation.
> i don't have any musical training, so there are likely to be nuances that i > am missing (i'm just one of those oddballs who likes to have his ears > challenged by stuff that doesn't sound normal), but it makes me wonder > about how one is "supposed" to react to experimental and abstract, so to > speak, musical art. basically, what does one listen for? Oy, is that a tough question, and I'm constantly running into it. It's (to use a very rough analogy) a matter of running your ears around the music, and listening for what is stable in the music and what is changing, and at what level. For example, listening to early minimalism, you might be disappointed if you only listen for changes at the rate that most popular and classical music changes harmonically, which is on the order of once a second. In this music there are occasional glacial shifts, sometimes marking entire regions of a piece with a single harmonic shift. There also is a lot happening on the note-to-note level, as well as, often in the changes in durations in patterns. Similarly, in listening to the blues, the harmonic motion and structure aren't particularly interesting, and the lyrics don't change much. Everything that's happening is in terms of minutia of timing and tone color. Listening to unfamiliar music can dump you into unknown territory. Using (somewhat self-servingly), a piece by Comma as an example, since people with RealAudio can hear it at http://www.localmusicstore.com/realaudio/comma.ram : The first thing you hear is a series of long high, somewhat steady tones. You may be able to hear that they are voices, which gives you a ballpark for what else might happens. With the slidings of the notes and their nearness, you might get the feeling that what's happening here is not standard harmony, but is working outside that box. At about a minute in, the first sounds other than the high tones enter, one doubling the remaining high tone and octave down and the other with unpitched air sounds. The sounds get more complex, and, after dropping to near silence by about 1:30 in, have devolved into a clearly non-tonal shaking, whispering and muttering. You're out of the tone zone now, and what's happening is strictly timbral. At about two minutes in, there's a steady increase in volume, and things suddenly break into explosive pseudo-speech, then drop into muttering again. At about 2:45 there's a tossing around of sounds, with a significant placement of them in the stereo spectrum. At about the three minute mark, we have for the first time a steady rhythmic pattern and repeating sequence, as two of the voices have locked together while the third does glides above it. That breaks down quickly, and at about 3:30 there's whistling and silences. Then we're into steady long tones again, which go into a steady upward slide together into an abrupt cut-off. So: what would you listen for here? In a sense, a first listening might serve to show, on a coarse scale, what the piece is *not*: it's not held together by tonality, rhythm, or lyrics. It is somewhat obvious (though some people have doubted it) that it's made by three voices, and that the key areas of significant change are in texture and density. Knowing that, you might go back in and listen again, this time with a better feel for what parameters are most worthy of attention. In a sense, that's why I try not to make a judgement on an album until I've heard it at least twice: the first listen lets you know what the music is and is not; starting with the second, I can start to listen for what is done within the area with which it plays. For example, approaching a Leonard Cohen album, you have to first get the idea that listening for vocal mastery is, um, less rewarding than in other places, but that the lyrics and structures are most interesting. Similarly, listening to a Carpenters album for timbral and structural inventiveness won't get you very far, but the range of the vocals (restrained but the effective), the lyrics (ditto), and the harmonies (unexpected and magical) is where the game is. Uh, did that make any sense? n.p. Alienstalk (s/t) - -- - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 23:49:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Neal Copperman Subject: Re: catching up (long) On Mon, 25 May 1998, meredith wrote: > A long time ago, Valerie Nozick posited about the Falcon Ridge Folk Fest: > .... > > I haven't really seen much of a response here ... but I'm definitely into > it! I don't think there's much hope of getting a motel room, as I only > recall seeing one motel in the general vicinity and as far as I know it > gets booked up with performers that weekend. I'd be into setting up an > ecto camping area, though, as woj and I have this tent we bought for FRFF > two summers ago, and we've only used it that once. :) > > Valerie, did anyone else get back to you on this off-list? Now would be > the time to make plans, as ticket prices are going to go up soon and I'd > like to get in early if possible. What do y'all say? I could definitely be convinced to go. It would be pretty trivial to convince me, as I was already interested and was just hoping to find a few others so that I wasn't spending the whole weekend by myself. I've got camping gear too, and think an ecto campsite would be great. My tent sleeps two, so I'd have an extra space if anyone cares to join me. (I'll leave my ax at home, and if I'm a pedophile, all of you should be safe.) I figured if Valerie was proposing the idea, there would probably be a hurricane or something :) > Jessica fonted: > > >Jewel said on MTV that she did record an album 2 years ago but is > >planning to go back into the studio in August and release it by > >November. > > I wonder if that lost album is *ever* going to see the light of day. Sigh. I bet it leaks out sometime, though I wish it had leaked out already. > Neal mentioned: > > >I had an insanely full weekend. > > Hey, for once I'm not the one saying that! I actually feel good about > this. ;) Seems like I can say that every weekend, though that one was remarcably full of music. This one was more full of food, though I did see the movie The Boxer (with Daniel Day Lewis - an incredible film, and oddly timely with the "peace" in Ireland), part of the SoWeBoHemian festival, and later that night, a rollicking Cindy Lee Berryhill show. At SoWeBo I saw a local band called Puss Pie who were a blast. Two women bassist fronting a mail drummer, playing a punk and reggae hibrid. Later in the day they acquited themselves just as well as hecklers. Cindy Lee was great as ever. She asked where the ectophiles and eda's were, since the show was relatively sparsely attended. I guess DC on Memeorial Day weekend isn't a good date after all, as most people I knew were out of town. The crowd picked up and the show was a blast. People seemed to know the first album really well, so she played a lot of songs from it, as well as her latest skip song (Jimmy Smith) at my request. it was only it's 3rd performance [ she said she'd played it twice before, once it really sucked, and once it was great], and I've seen it twice. I only missed the one where it sucked :) It was interesting seeing her with CJ Hutchins though. he's a San Diego blues guitartist, and he makes her show edgier, more rock and roll. She'd been playing mostly with singer Rick Kesner (sp?), who brought out the orchestrations and layerings in her music, so this was an interesting change for me. > Re Kristin Hersh: > Sounds like she's pulling from the same bag of stories all across this > tour. They're no less funny for all that, though. Did she mention that > her 6-year-old is also "tight with Satan"? Did she tell the one about Vic > Chestnutt performing in London, and the sheep? How about the "dead > lesbians on their wedding day" story from Sweden? She did talk about the "tight with Satan" kid, but I don't think she told either of the other stories. Sounds like she might have a pretty large collection to choose from. > Re Patty Griffin: > > >That was something that bothered me. I liked hearing the lyrics on the > >songs, and I wasn't thrilled to see her voice get absorbed into a rock and > >roll mix. That aside, she can certainly rock with abandon, and most of > >the songs were raucous good fun. Some stood out on first impression > >(particularly the title track of the forthcoming album, Flaming Red). > > But does she still yell at people? That's what makes _Living With Ghosts_ > completely unlistenable for me - after a while I just want her to STOP > SCREAMING AT ME. I haven't dared ever see her play live for the same > reason. It sounds like the music is finally catching up to her vocal > decibel level, but I'm not entirely sure that's a good thing. It seemed to me that in both of her recent shows, the ones with and without the band, her musical assault had mellowed a bit. Less so with the band, where there were tunes that she was certainly screaming. Maybe I'd just gotten used to her more. I'll add the solo show to your pile of tapes and you can decide for yourself, if you are brave enough to listen to the tape :) (Maybe I'll mis-label it to confuse you.) > Re Veda Hille: > > :) I wouldn't be surprised if a D.C./Baltimore area gig were to > materialize somewhere. I guess it'll depend on what kind of airplay > _Spine_ is getting, and where. But there's always New York! There's always so much going on in the immediate area that it's hard to inspire myself to make the 3+ hour trek up to NYC. Though maybe I should plan a weekend in the city sometime that corresponds to one of Veda's shows (not a 25 minute one though!) Neal np: Grass of '96 sampler, and the incessant sound of sneezing (mine... I biked to Fort McHenry this afternoon, which triggered off such a sustained bout of sneezing that I was attracting more attention than any of the sights in the park.) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 00:15:49 -0400 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: catching up (long) Neal Copperman wrote: > Cindy Lee was great as ever. She asked where the ectophiles and eda's > were, since the show was relatively sparsely attended. I guess DC on > Memeorial Day weekend isn't a good date after all, as most people I knew > were out of town. I had a very busy weekend for music, etc, at least for me (considering that I rarely get out to see anything). This weekend was the Kennedy Center AMJAM, for which I had a saturday ticket (the other days including Arlo Guthrie, Sweet Honey in the Rock, the Nields, and others). I slept late, but got there in time to see both the acts who I really wanted to see, Medeski Martin and Wood (who were pretty good, though my attention wandered, and had lotsa second-generation Deadheads gyrating to their sound) and the Klezmatics (who were awesome, and had lotsa mixed-generation chains of people doing something between a conga line and a hora weaving around the rest of the unfortunately sparse audience). I also saw the end of Chuck Berry's set, which was so canned that it could have been done by a windup doll. Sunday evening I saw Ellen Christi and her band Alienstalk at Crush in Adams Morgan. Good show: picture someone partway between Annette Peacock and Urszula Dudziak fronting a way-more-chaotic percussionless King Crimson. Unfortunately her voice was mixed way down, so it served mostly as a textural element. They also, as a favor to the club DJ, did an encore improvising over his beats, which unfortunately he kept playing long after they ran out of energy or ideas. I got their self-titled CD at the show, which is even better than the performance. I also saw "Bullworth" on Sunday afternoon, and really liked it. It's a broad farce, and all the characters were charicatures, but it was a pleasant remimder that there are still those of us out here to whom "Liberal" isn't an epithet. - -- - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V4 #164 **************************