From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V3 #34 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Wednesday, October 8 1997 Volume 03 : Number 034 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re[2]: Jewel in Belgium [JEFFREY_HANSON@NSDGATE3.nsd.fmc.com (JEFFREY HAN] introducing myself [Max Froumentin ] [MSCHELLE@wiley.com: Jane tour dates at Christmas] [Jeff Wasilko ] Re: spam spam spam lovely spaaaaam... [Jeff Wasilko ] Re: spam spam spam lovely spaaaaam... [Dan Stark ] Loreena McKennitt's _The Book of Secrets_ [Michael Curry ] Re: Borders and new artists ["Jeffrey C. Burka" ] Re: Borders and new artists [Richard ] Re: Borders and new artists/Dar Williams in Boulder [Silme@ix.netcom.com] Borders (was Re: Mary Coughlin in San Mateo, CA, The Sound) [Heather Russ] Scheherazade ["Rich R. - GEG Society" ] Happy on Nov 14 ["Rich R. - GEG Society" ] guy evans and peter hammill ["Rich R. - GEG Society" ] Re: spam spam spam lovely spaaaaam... ["Neil K. Guy" ] Re: Borders and new artists [Michael Curry ] Re: Borders and new artists [kerrywhite@webtv.net (kerry white)] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 08:27:55 -0500 From: JEFFREY_HANSON@NSDGATE3.nsd.fmc.com (JEFFREY HANSON) Subject: Re[2]: Jewel in Belgium - --IMA.Boundary.370132678 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part I also heard mention of this concert on MTV News over the weekend. Jeff ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Jewel in Belgium Author: "Kathy Clark (and sometimes Ed)" at NSDSMTP Date: 10/6/97 6:18 PM Hey! Here's further corroboration of my rumor!! > 97/12/?? Lilith Fair 98 Preview Gig,venue TBA, West Palm Beach, FL > - --IMA.Boundary.370132678 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="RFC822 message headers" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Content-Disposition: inline; filename="RFC822 message headers" Received: from nsd.fmc.com (128.254.72.21) by NSDGATE3.NSD.FMC.COM with SMTP (IMA Internet Exchange 2.1 (Gold Candidate) Enterprise) id 00052CEE; Mon, 6 Oct 97 17:52:46 -0500 Received: from igw.fmc.com by nsd.fmc.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id RAA06849; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 17:50:23 -0500 Received: from relay1.shore.net by igw.fmc.com with SMTP id AA20936 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for ); Mon, 6 Oct 1997 17:49:57 -0500 Received: from jane.smoe.org (majordom@smoe.org [204.167.97.154]) by relay1.shore.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA27122; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 18:49:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost by jane.smoe.org (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4-listq-jane) id SAA23600; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 18:31:09 -0400 Received: by jane.smoe.org (bulk_mailer v1.5); Mon, 6 Oct 1997 18:30:52 -0400 Received: by jane.smoe.org (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4-listq-jane) id SAA23449; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 18:20:42 -0400 Received: from uhura.concentric.net by jane.smoe.org (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4-daemon-mode-relay2) id SAA23445; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 18:20:35 -0400 Received: from marconi.concentric.net (marconi [206.173.119.71]) by uhura.concentric.net (8.8.7/(97/09/12 5.7)) id SAA22824; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 18:19:09 -0400 (EDT) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Received: from crc3.concentric.net (ts003d21.ftl-fl.concentric.net [207.155.150.129]) by marconi.concentric.net (8.8.7) id SAA15281; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 18:19:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199710062219.SAA15281@marconi.concentric.net> From: "Kathy Clark (and sometimes Ed)" To: Subject: Re: Jewel in Belgium Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 18:18:56 -0400 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ecto@smoe.org Precedence: bulk - --IMA.Boundary.370132678-- ------------------------------ Date: 07 Oct 1997 15:03:53 +0100 From: Max Froumentin Subject: introducing myself Hi all, I've been lurking for a while here and I think it's time to come out of darkness. I am french and I work in Bath (UK) as a university research assistant. I was introduced to HR and ectophilic music by Yves (whom I think you all know) as we did our PhD in the same lab in France. He used to filter this mailing list for me, sending me the posts that would interest me the most, but now that we no longer work in the same place, I have to do the reading myself. Fortunately I quite enjoy it. My musical interests mostly come from mainstream Rock+Pop, progressive rock and hard rock. Suzanne Vega and Kate Bush were my first step towards ecto music. A short list of "the artists that changed my life" would be (a-z order): KB, Genesis, Joe Jackson, Led Zeppelin, Supertramp, Talking Heads, Throwing Muses, Suzanne Vega. I haven't been able to locate the good radio shows around yet, so I know I can count on you to get the latest info on artists/releases/tours. I also had little exposure to the Bath/Bristol music scene yet so if anybody from round here want to share impressions or info s/he is welcome. Max. - -- Max Froumentin n.p.: Tanya Donelly _Lovesongs for Underdog_ School of Maths n.r.: Dickens _Great Expectations_ University of Bath Bath BA2 7AY, UK ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 10:52:48 -0400 From: Jeff Wasilko Subject: [MSCHELLE@wiley.com: Jane tour dates at Christmas] - -----Forwarded message from "Schellenberg, Michael" ----- Hello all: Just thought I would report what is in the little handout that was given out at the Toronto concert: Tour Dates: Christmas "Jane will be doing a December tour with some of the fine musicians featured on the upcoming Christmas release 'Child' Canada: Vancouver, Toronto Great Britain: London, Dublin US: NYC, San Francisco, Portland, LA" Michael Schellenberg - -----End of forwarded message----- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 08:36:22 -0700 From: Greg.Jumper@Eng.Sun.COM (Greg Jumper) Subject: Borders and new artists Richard said: Does anyone else have the problem I have with Borders? Specifically, I have no problem in flatout refusing to patronize The Home Depot, Rite-Aid, Wal-Mart, and the other corporate monsters that are killing small businesses everywhere. But Borders... And Meredith replied: I think I have the same problem. I've only ever been inside a Borders twice, once to see The Nields do an in-store and then to watch Neverwhere a couple weeks back, but both times I ended up buying something and had a hard time conjuring up the guilt afterwards. Well, as I seem to spend a couple of hours in Borders virtually every weekend, I certainly suffer from this syndrome as well. If you buy lots of hardbacks, the 10% discount is simply too good to pass up, any desire to patronize small businesses notwithstanding; plus, Borders has very ecto-friendly music buyers and stocks lots of independent releases. I think the success of many (not all) of these "corporate monsters" shows they're doing something right (survival of the fittest, and all that). While I like to see and help local businesses succeed, I don't feel obliged to go out of my way to spend extra money to subsidize inefficiency. Big doesn't always imply bad... Back to music, I discovered a group called Love Riot at a Borders listening station a few months ago. I'm kind of surprised that no one else here has mentioned them -- the disc was still on display this past weekend, if anyone wants to check them out. They're a female-fronted Baltimore-based band more along the standard rock and alternative dimensions of the Ecto spectrum; they also have some moderately non-traditional instrumentation (e.g., cello -- although inclusion of strings in "rock" groups seems to be all the rage these days). The lead singer's voice reminds me of Melissa Ferrick at times - -- I know that will immediately turn off several people on the list, but don't let that stop you from listening to Love Riot. Several of the songs on the disc are the type that have me wanting to hit repeat over and over. While in Borders this past weekend, I also sampled the new Joe Jackson disc, which has contributions from Joy Askew, Jane Siberry, and Suzanne Vega. I liked the songs with Suzanne Vega and Jane Siberry vocals, but I'm not sure I like the remainder enough to get the disc. Anyone here listened to the entire disc? There was an intriguing disc called _Code Mesa_ from a new artist (whose name I can't remember right now) described as being in the vein of Kate Bush, Sarah McLachlan, and Annie Lennox. (If I had a nickel for every time I've read a description like that at a listening station in the past year...) The songs were initially pretty interesting, but they seemed a bit stilted and monotonous as a group. Anyone else heard this artist? Finally, I checked out the new Beautiful South CD, _Blue is the Color_. I liked what I heard. Having never heard this group before, how representative is the new disc of their work? What other Beautiful South albums should I look for? Greg np: Jane Kelly Williams, _Tapping the Wheel_ nr: Alison Sinclair, _Legacies_ + Copeland, _The Philosophy of Artificial Intelligence_ (hey, it's for a class :) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 10:44:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Richard Holmes Subject: Borders, Amazon.com, etc. (was Re: a few replies) Meredith writes: > I think I have the same problem. I've only ever been inside a Borders > twice, once to see The Nields do an in-store and then to watch Neverwhere a > couple weeks back, but both times I ended up buying something and had a > hard time conjuring up the guilt afterwards. :/ I mean, I have no trouble > at all scorning Barnes & Noble, especially now considering the bullpuckey > with amazon.com, but Borders... there's just something about it. I'd love > to figure out what it is too, so perhaps I can come up with an antidote. :) Although another "Richard" wrote the bit you're responding to here, I myself was wondering what the bit about amazon.com was. I've heard vague references to their being just another "Barnes & Noble on the net - so do tell. I've ordered from amazon and would like to know what's up. WRT Borders, the same sort of deal. But no matter how you cut it, if you make money, you spend money, you contribute to *shit*. We can go beg rice, become a Jainist, and starve ourselves for fear of eating tiny bugs, but that's not for me - we can only do our best with limited knowledge and imperfect choices... which is worse: buying a CD at Borders, mailing off to some low-overhead mega-volume undercutter, or driving over town to all the mom-and-pops looking for a CD, polluting the air? (just an example...). - -Richard. @ \@/ Richard A. Holmes (rholmes@cs.stanford.edu) @ | @ \|/ "Your love is like a conch shell / Irregular and slick @ | You're tougher than a ten foot snail @ , , | , , Chopped up and stewing on the heat @ ' ' ' ' I want to know how far you'll go / In your warped idea of quest @ Are you really gonna go for broke / or kick it with the best? @ - Katell Keineg, "Conch Shell" @ @ Kiva / Kate Price \ Dar Williams / Renaissance \ Sheila Chandra / Laura Love @ Susan McKeown \ Sarah McLachlan / Libana \ Danielle Dax \ Dog Faced Hermans @ Loreena McKennitt / Kate Bush \ Tori Amos / Katell Keineg / Happy Rhodes @ Ingrid Karklins \ Sinead O'Connor / Jane Siberry / Pauline Oliveros ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 20:06:57 +0200 (MET DST) From: Peter Jakobi Subject: Re: spam spam spam lovely spaaaaam... Hi, Foreword: Don't blame me, my original reply to Damon was private:). To pay for the off-topic content, I offer to have a look at installing the cgi query interface - mentioned below - for the ecto www archive (if necessary - didn't check) :). > [Damon] > > [me - private/off-ecto] > > [the spider] may encounter things like http://UID:PW@HOST/... [and use > > it for spam] > > ... > > Depending on the size of the group, you have a high likelihood of > > finding PW/UID containing URLs in someone's public hotlist... > > >Some dynamic javascript or java applet generating a dynamic URL to be > >screened by a cgi ("is the URL-embedded number a prime multiplied by the > >number of hours since 1/1/1970 (+/-1)?") may be the only safe approach > >against spiders bent on mischief. > > well, i hardly think it would be necessary to bring java/javascript into > this. especially when you consider that smoe is run out of jeff's > figurative basement (unless that's changed?) so one could set things up as > root... It doesn't have anything to do with root (actually rootly powers cannot help use here - unless in speeding up cgi scripts, hiding them, embedding the URL rewriting and checking within the daemon's configuration). Java/javascript is really meant as pure, inefficient, time-expensive client-side obfuscation: Not even the most terrible spammer's spider around evalutes javascript on the fly to check all URLs that could be dynamically created by the script on the client. It's simply too costly to do this... . If we restrict validity of the URL to a certain period of time, this approach is equivalent to and (almost) as safe as Damon's new-temporary-password-on-the-fly-method. Advantage: for the time being, we can avoid passwords, etc. Somebody using e.g. Netscape doesn't notice anything except a rather long URL (the user doesn't have to enter the password manually). Disadvantage: For javascript-disabled browsers, we still need a cook-your-URL-manually fallback recipe for the user and his ol' faithful hp pocket calculator. Damon: your approach should work... (if the server can cope with the additional load we create here...). Actually we should be able to use a cronjob every n minutes to void passwords or URLs older than 2*n minutes, and avoid using costly cgi entirely (-> symlinks, redirects, etc...; assuming an Unix host). > anyway, i think i prefer the filtering approach *anyway*, replacing email > addresses with something at least somewhat spamproof, say user@host.dom -> > user(at)host(dot)dom. less awkward for the end user, i would think. hm, > and maybe you'd want single character replacements, say user#host'dom, to > avoid messing up people's signatures... well, i'm sure one could come up > with something. I concur (except for equally awkward (or better: transparent) for the user:). An additional advantage: Assuming we have a fulltext or subject index, we could put some links on the homepage such as 'recent terra/rhodeways news'. Which would look like http://smoe.org/cgi-bin/query_index?rhodeways|terra&period=14d and return every posting on this topic (with some false hits) during the last 14 days. I'm using such a cgi-script (ok I wrote it:) for an hypermail archive of a local computer science list - so for most news I an email is sufficient to update the web site (instead of changing tons of pages). cu Peter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 13:40:32 -0500 (CDT) From: Joseph S Zitt Subject: Re: Borders, Amazon.com, etc. (was Re: a few replies) On Tue, 7 Oct 1997, Richard Holmes wrote: > WRT Borders, the same sort of deal. But no matter how you cut it, > if you make money, you spend money, you contribute to *shit*. We can I think one thing that makes Borders more comfortable than, say, B&N is that they make at least an effort to get involved in the local community, having prominent shelves of local writers, supporting local music and schools, and giving the stores at least a bit of a local feel. Barnes & Noble seems to have the feeling of a grand elite thingie that fell from the sky to impose culture upon us. *bleah* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Oct 1997 10:25:35 -0700 From: Damon des Jumeaux Subject: spam spam spam lovely spaaaaam... Peter Jakobi wrote me thusly: >>one possibility might be to use the password technique... just one userid >>and associated password. and rather than give that out on the list and in >>the faq, etc, simply have the link to the archives from the main ecto pages >>(and other linking sites) point to an intermediary page [...] > >Which is nice. But does our beloved little spammer's spider really >behave? It may encounter things like http://UID:PW@HOST/... . And >friendly proxies may even offer to translate/convert it in case our >spider doesn't know this dialect. > >Depending on the size of the group, you have a high likelihood of >finding PW/UID containing URLs in someone's public hotlist... teehee... i didn't even know that dialect existed myself! >Some dynamic javascript or java applet generating a dynamic URL to be >screened by a cgi ("is the URL-embedded number a prime multiplied by the >number of hours since 1/1/1970 (+/-1)?") may be the only safe approach >against spiders bent on mischief. > >If you've a perfect solution, I'd like to hear it on ecto or directly well, i hardly think it would be necessary to bring java/javascript into this. especially when you consider that smoe is run out of jeff's figurative basement (unless that's changed?) so one could set things up as root... i haven't worked with httpd enough really, but i'm sure it wouldn't take long to devise some sort of cgi program that generates a UID based on its own PID, along with a random password, chunks that into the appropriate authorisation file, and then shows it to the user that accessed the program in the first place, "here's what you type in...". and then have the file they access be another script that deletes the appropriate user/password line from the auth file tidily after them. hm... and i suppose you'd want the first script to hand the UID off to another program sitting in memory that would remove the appropriate line after a specified time, in case the user never goes any further than the "here's your uid/password" page... but details, details. :) anything wrong with that approach? i'm a bit too lazy to boot up under linux and try it out right now... anyway, it ought to foil spiders. anyway, i think i prefer the filtering approach *anyway*, replacing email addresses with something at least somewhat spamproof, say user@host.dom -> user(at)host(dot)dom. less awkward for the end user, i would think. hm, and maybe you'd want single character replacements, say user#host'dom, to avoid messing up people's signatures... well, i'm sure one could come up with something. btw, what *did* happen to ecto.org? i wasn't really keeping up around the time the transition happened, so if it was discussed at length already, i missed it... any chance of registering it again and aliasing it to smoe, or something like that? enough... if anyone really hates seeing this discussed on the list, let me know; i just think that if it might lead to something being done, maybe it ought to occur here. - -damon damon harper _/\_ "Hey, you sass those hoopy damon@pobox.com __\ /_ jumeaux? There're two froods laur & damon: jumeaux@pobox.com \ / who rully know where their http://pobox.com/~jumeaux/damon/ |/||\| towels are." -- ma jumelle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 18:50:00 -0400 From: Jeff Wasilko Subject: Re: spam spam spam lovely spaaaaam... On Tue, Oct 07, 1997 at 10:25:35AM -0700, Damon des Jumeaux wrote: > well, i hardly think it would be necessary to bring java/javascript into > this. especially when you consider that smoe is run out of jeff's > figurative basement (unless that's changed?) so one could set things up as It's actually on a shelf in my spare bedroom/office closet. And to answer a question that came up earlier, it is a unix box (Solaris to be specific). > root... i haven't worked with httpd enough really, but i'm sure it wouldn't > take long to devise some sort of cgi program that generates a UID based on > its own PID, along with a random password, chunks that into the appropriate > authorisation file, and then shows it to the user that accessed the program > in the first place, "here's what you type in...". and then have the file > they access be another script that deletes the appropriate user/password > line from the auth file tidily after them. hm... and i suppose you'd want > the first script to hand the UID off to another program sitting in memory > that would remove the appropriate line after a specified time, in case the > user never goes any further than the "here's your uid/password" page... but > details, details. :) I would vote for something simple, since I'd have to maintain it. I like the idea of a slowly changing password (say hourly or longer) that is displayed on the initial page of the archives. > btw, what *did* happen to ecto.org? i wasn't really keeping up around the > time the transition happened, so if it was discussed at length already, i > missed it... any chance of registering it again and aliasing it to smoe, or > something like that? As I understand it, it was a combination of events that led to the demise of ecto.org. The domain is still valid, but just not active. I'd be glad to host the domain here, but there are costs associated with adding a domain (I don't have the cushy situation that Greg had). - -Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Oct 1997 18:56:36 -0400 From: Dan Stark Subject: Re: spam spam spam lovely spaaaaam... At 10:25 AM 10/7/97 -0700, Damon des Jumeaux wrote: >enough... if anyone really hates seeing this discussed on the list, let me >know; i just think that if it might lead to something being done, maybe it >ought to occur here. Hmm, it seems to me my gripe about spam might have started all this. :) The owner's manual for my old motherboard actually prefaced a technical chapter with an ominous "WARNING: Reading this section may blow your mind!" Well I leafed through it and made it out alive, so as far as I'm concerned your technical musings here pose no hazard to my health. If it ends up cutting down on the spam, then I'm happy to scratch my head, delete, and send my thanks for your efforts. :) Dan - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DAN STARK - Windsor, Ontario, Canada - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- SPAM BAIT - pyramid@ftc.gov jccheezum@uspis.gov enforcement@sec.gov fraudinfo@psinet.com net-abuse@nocs.insp.irs.gov admin@localhost abuse@localhost - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 18:08:02 -0500 (CDT) From: Michael Curry Subject: Loreena McKennitt's _The Book of Secrets_ On Mon, 6 Oct 1997, meredith wrote: > Loreena's _The Book of Secrets_ is indeed wonderful stuff. Vintage Loreena > -- my only complaint is that it's too short. Probably won't win her any > new fans, but it's quite satisfying to those of us who have been in love > with her work for years now. Add me to the list of those giving a thumbs up to Loreena's new cd. In large part it's a continuation of what she was doing on _The Mask and Mirror_, so if you love that cd (like I do) you'll love the new one as well. It's good enough that the 56+ minute mix of songs and instrumental tracks does indeed seem to be too short. Loreena's voice is wonderously beautiful (as always), Hugh Marsh's violin playing is amazing and the vast assortment of other instruments (piano, harp, keyboards, harp, kanoun, accordian, cello, acoustic guitar, mandola, mandolin, snare drum, hurdy gurdy, bodhran, serangi, rebec, lira da braccio, oud, electric guitar, bouzouki, guitar sythizer, classical guitar, victorian guitar, mandocello, viola de gamba, violin, tabla, timba, esraj, viola, tin whistle, shawm and a few others) are played well by the mob of talented musicians who contributed to this album in one way or another. My only quibble with _The Book of Secrets_ might be the fact that we only get to hear Loreena play her harp on one track. Oh, and I did buy my copy at Borders. I tend to buy a lot of cds there, as the very few local indie shops don't seem to have the same tastes in music as I do. Mike np: Loreena McKennitt -- The Book of Secrets nr: A Game of Thrones by George R. R. Martin | Michael Curry / mcurry@io.com / mcurry@compuserve.com | | http://www.io.com/~mcurry | | Am I bitter? Do I sound bitter? -- Veda Hille | ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Oct 1997 19:39:17 -0400 From: "Jeffrey C. Burka" Subject: Re: Borders and new artists Greg Jumper wrote: > Back to music, I discovered a group called Love Riot at a Borders > listening station a few months ago. I'm kind of surprised that no one > else here has mentioned them hmmm...woj seems to be spreading. Yes, Love Riot has been mentioned here by the Baltimore contingent (Hi, Neal...yer back in town, right?), along with Lisa Cerbone, another Baltimore artist. jeff ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Oct 1997 19:23:47 -0400 From: Richard Subject: Re: Borders and new artists Greg wrote: > While I like to see and help local businesses > succeed, I don't feel obliged to go out of my way to spend extra money > to subsidize inefficiency. Big doesn't always imply bad... and the OTHER Richard commented: > which is worse: buying a CD at Borders, > mailing off to some low-overhead mega-volume undercutter, or driving > over town to all the mom-and-pops looking for a CD, polluting the air? I buy 90% of my CDs at Bull Moose Music, a locally owned and operated chain of four stores in Southern Maine and New Hampshire; Here are comparisons of the Borders price at the Maine Mall and the price I paid at Bull Moose for each title recently- BETH ORTON: "Trailer Park" Borders- $15.95 BM- $11.95 THE STORY: "Grace in Gravity" Borders- $15.95 BM- $12.95 DAR: "Mortal City" Borders- $15.95 BM- $12.95 PORTISHEAD: "Portishead" Borders- $12.95 BM- $11.95 BEL CANTO: "Magic Box" Borders- $15.95 BM- $11.95 and so on... Now, Portland ME is a *small* city, pop. 65,000- Am I to understand that other, larger metro areas don't have a similar retailer? I was in Boulder CO recently and immediately found Bart's CD Cellar, same kinda place as Bull Moose and I WALKED to it... Inefficiency? You can special order anything in print at BM and have it in two days maximum; shipments are received M-W-F each week- that's how I got my copy of AG Vol 2, and other hard-to-find gems. And "Mom-and-Pop" operation?? The owner of BM is a big HTR fan and keeps most of her albums in the bins at all times... again, BM and Bart's can't be the *only* two operations like this in the USA and I think it's no big deal to haul my tired, overaged butt the extra 1/2 mile to Bull Moose...;-) BTW, I asked a clerk at BM how they can sell CDs at those prices; He said that as far as he knows, the owner simply makes less on each title. And I understand they're opening a fifth location soon. r np- Dar Williams, "End of the Summer", particularly "Bought and Sold" :) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Oct 1997 18:59:16 +0000 From: Silme@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: Borders and new artists/Dar Williams in Boulder Greg Jumper wrote: > Well, as I seem to spend a couple of hours in Borders virtually every > weekend, I certainly suffer from this syndrome as well. If you buy > lots of hardbacks, the 10% discount is simply too good to pass up, any > desire to patronize small businesses notwithstanding; But the indie book store down the street from me gives me 10% off on everything I buy there. The mystery book store two blocks from it keeps track of my purchases and gives me a $5.00 credit with every $50.00 spent. And it's a mom and pop store (the longest running mystery book store in the world, btw) where the owners know you, know your tastes, etc. And most of the new books are autographed. (I went in last week to pick up my signed copy of Kathy Reich's Deja Dead and was handed a free promotional Deja Dead t-shirt also.) Same with cd stores. The owner of a great local indie store gives me an automatic discount, has never steered me wrong on new artists, has given me promos, etc. I can't get that service at Borders nor Tower. Borders is a very nice chain. However, Enid and Tom at the Rue Morgue and Andy at Albums on the Hill service me better and give me just as good a discount. I suppose I'm fortunate in that I may shop at the chains or at superb indie stores. (Btw, this is the same cd store owner who had Catie Curtis first perform in his store in Boulder, Colorado back in 1993!) And I'm seeing Dar Williams and band tomorrow night! Patty Larkin and Cheryl Wheeler are on a double bill in Denver on Friday night, and Paula Cole plays on Tuesday! Whew! Ellen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Oct 1997 21:43:09 -0400 From: Heather Russell Subject: Borders (was Re: Mary Coughlin in San Mateo, CA, The Sound) >Does anyone else have the problem I have with Borders? Specifically, I >have no problem in flatout refusing to patronize The Home Depot, >Rite-Aid, Wal-Mart, and the other corporate monsters that are killing >small businesses everywhere. But Borders... I still buy all of my >music and most of my books from locally-owned outfits, but also I find >myself repeatedly drawn to the local Borders, and not just to spend an >hour or two at the listening stations. >Am I being co-opted despite my >best efforts by a superb job of commercial interior design?? Or maybe >it's the Italian sodas...?? >r I have the same feeling when I walk in a Borders - it's so big, well organized, and the cafe makes it more festive than a regular bookstore. But I love local bookstores too and try to give them most of my business. If it makes you feel any better, they really treat their musicians well. Borders pays its musicians and gives them free food and drinks (most local coffeehouses and bookstores don't pay and the musician must pass the hat and hope for the best). I really like performing at the Borders stores because they have their own PA, some stores have a grand piano (!) for me to play on, and the audiences are generally very appreciative and receptive to new music. Borders also supports local music (at least here in the Cary and Greensboro, NC stores) by showcasing local music in a listening station in the cafe, and selling local music in the music section of the store (both prominently displayed). They are also (due in part to pressure by movie and TV director Michael Moore of "Roger and Me" fame) allowing their workers to organize unions. So go to Borders to listen to the concerts in the cafe, try out some new music in the listening stations, and then go buy your books and records at local stores somewhere else. Or... buy books/records there that the local stores don't stock. Heather P.S. I'm hooked on the italian sodas too... with whipped cream! n.p. Mark Eitzel "West" - -- |***********************************| | Heather Russell | | http://www.freecloud.com/heather | | hrussell@bellsouth.net | |___________________________________| "Just in Time" CD release date is Monday, October 13... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 21:28:15 -0400 From: "Rich R. - GEG Society" Subject: Scheherazade Kerry said: > Hi, I finally found a cd of Renaissance: Scheherazade and Other > Stories. It was an import but was only $19. Check the CD it'self, it might be the misprint "Scheherazade and SHORT Stories" Rich R., for.... The Grey Eye Glances Society E-Mail: geg@waterw.com Official GEG Site: http://www.greyeyeglances.com/ GEG Society Web Site: http://www.waterw.com/~geg/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 21:31:39 -0400 From: "Rich R. - GEG Society" Subject: Happy on Nov 14 Does anyone have more info on the Bon Lozaga/Caryn Lin Band show with Happy Rhodes, Nov 14, at the Old Swedes Church in Phila, PA.... Tickets availability??? Little help.... please.. Rich R., for.... The Grey Eye Glances Society E-Mail: geg@waterw.com Official GEG Site: http://www.greyeyeglances.com/ GEG Society Web Site: http://www.waterw.com/~geg/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 21:25:54 -0400 From: "Rich R. - GEG Society" Subject: guy evans and peter hammill >woj >n.p. guy evans and peter hammill -- the union chapel concert (yow!) How is the Van Der Graff Generator "reunion" CD??? I hear good things.... Rich ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 19:07:29 -0700 From: "Neil K. Guy" Subject: Re: spam spam spam lovely spaaaaam... At 6:50 PM -0400 10/7/97, Jeff Wasilko wrote: > I'd be glad to host the domain here, but there are costs > associated with adding a domain (I don't have the cushy situation > that Greg had). What kind of costs, and would people be willing to chip in a few cents each to reclaim the domain? I know I could probably work something out for moving the domain, but it'd be complicated to have the name server in one place and the hosted site elsewhere... - Neil K. - -- t e l a computer consulting + design * Vancouver, BC, Canada phone: (604) 254-1002 * email: tela@tela.bc.ca web: http://www.tela.bc.ca/tela/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 22:03:43 -0500 (CDT) From: Michael Curry Subject: Re: Borders and new artists On Tue, 7 Oct 1997, Richard wrote: > and so on... Now, Portland ME is a *small* city, pop. 65,000- Am I to > understand that other, larger metro areas don't have a similar > retailer? I was in Boulder CO recently and immediately found Bart's CD > Cellar, same kinda place as Bull Moose performance by The Nields the day I was there!> and I WALKED to it... But that's kinda the whole point... some people don't. If you don't live in (or very near) a large city you should consider yourself fortunate if you have record stores nearby that fit the sort of ideal image that some of the shops people have mentioned here seem to aspire to. No one is saying, "I love to shop at Borders so much that I scorn the local indie shops." Those of us who end up buying a large number of cds at places like Borders simply don't have a local indie outlet that carries the sort of music we want to hear. In my own case, I live in northeastern Connecticut. The two closest indie shops (well, one indie, one small chain) are located near the University of Connecticut and the only local competition they have for the students is one of the worst stocked Strawberries I've ever seen (and that requires a car to get to). In my experience, not only are the two indie shops pretty hit and miss with carrying the cds I want to buy (and neither has a worthwhile Celtic music section), but the prices are in the range of the nearest Borders. Because they have the captive college crowd they feel the need to carry a larger percentage of mainstream stuff than most indie places tend to, and because they don't have a big chain competitor nearby they don't feel the need to keep their prices especially low. If I had an local indie store that carried the cds I wanted to buy, I'd shop there. If I had one that carried the cds I wanted to buy and either charged lower prices than Borders or did things like giving me a discount for being a regular customer, I'd never shop anywhere else. But I don't, so I'm going to keep buying cds at Borders and I'm not going to feel the least bit guilty about doing it. Mike | Michael Curry / mcurry@io.com / mcurry@compuserve.com | | http://www.io.com/~mcurry | | Am I bitter? Do I sound bitter? -- Veda Hille | ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 00:31:06 -0500 From: kerrywhite@webtv.net (kerry white) Subject: Re: Borders and new artists Hi, The New Joe Jackson "7 Deadly Sins" is what he did live on Sessions. Someone else did the S. Vega part, 'tho. KrW "Help me, Mr Wizard!!!" "Drizzel drozzel druzzel drome, time for this one to come home." also:zzkwhite@ktwu.wuacc.edu ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V3 #34 *************************