From: owner-ecto-digest To: ecto-digest@ns2.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto-digest V2 #342 Reply-To: ecto@nsmx.rutgers.edu Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Wednesday, 10 January 1996 Volume 02 : Number 342 The Ecto digest is now being generated automatically. Please send problems and questions to: ecto-owner@nsmx.rutgers.edu. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "jeffrey hanson" Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 11:17:03 cdt Subject: Tarnation, Maria McKee Well, I think I may have posted my top 10 of '95 too soon. While Neal visited, he brought along a copy of Tarnation's CD, Gentle Creatures, that I had to go buy for myself. One of the best new 4AD bands I've heard in a while. The lead singer has a Patsy Cline-ish style of phrasing, and the songs mostly feature lap steel guitar which gives them all a nice country feel, but still has a 4AD edge. A male vocalist sings on a couple of the tracks, but I even like those songs--they remind me of The Reivers. Also, speaking of countryish rock, has anyone heard any recent info about Maria McKee's newest album? I had heard it was postponed until January, but haven't seen it on any recent new release lists. Has it been pushed back further? Jeff ------------------------------ From: "Donahue, Jim" Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 13:08:27 EST Subject: whatever happened to.... Since we seem to be on a "whatever happened to" thread of late.... Does anyone know what happened to a band called Eye to Eye? They sounded like a poppier Steely Dan, only with a really GREAT female lead singer, whose name escapes me at the moment (Deborah something? Levine?). They did two albums for Warner (I'd guess 1982 and 1984), Eye to Eye and Shakespeare Stole My Baby (great title!). Walter Becker of Steely Dan produced the second one for sure, and maybe the first, too; Donald Fagan played on a couple of cuts on the second elpee. One cut from the first album, "Nice Girl", got some airplay around the summer of '82. They got dropped from Warner during the great mid-80s purge (when Bonnie Raitt, T Bone Burnett, Van Morrison, etc, also got dropped). The songwriting was shaky--only about half of both elpees was worth listening to--but what a voice! Anyone know anything about them??? ------------------------------ From: Sue Trowbridge Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 13:53:14 -0500 (EST) Subject: William Orbit (was Re: Caroline Lavelle) On Tue, 9 Jan 1996 jeffy@wam.umd.edu wrote: > For those wondering what I'm talking about, Caroline Lavelle is a cellist > who put out an album with William Orbit (why should I know that name, other > than for his having programmed synths for a track on _Us_?) William Orbit was in an '80s synthpop group (with female vocals) called Torch Song, which I liked a lot at the time but haven't listened to since Reagan was president. After TS broke up, he did a few instrumental albums for IRS's NoSpeak label. - --Sue Trowbridge ------------------------------ From: mfgr@bart.nl (Marcel Rijs) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 20:02:23 -0100 Subject: Male ecto Hi, Well, Emmy's question really made some people make enormous lists! I do like lots of artists, but there are only a few outstanding male artists IMO. Such as:- _Black_ Well, this man needs no introduction anymore - he's in the Ectophiles Guide! :) He's made some great music in the recent past, and I can only hope a new album is underway. Someone know more? (check out http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/marcel/blackhom.htm for the only Black Homepage) _Howard Jones_ This man started out as a very trendy person, but his later work was more introspective and, well, beautiful. _China Crisis_ A group, consisting of two men as the only continuous members. They released an "Unplugged" album last year, so they're still alive, thank God. "Wishful thinking" to me is one of _the_ great anthems of the '80s, and musically, they're quite unique. _Laurent Voulzy_ French genius who releases an album every three, four years or so. While I only have one compilation album of the man, he's certainly worth listening to. Really beautiful soundscapes. And, of course, _Frank Boeijen_ The only person in Holland who can make good music in the Dutch language. His career spans 16 years, in which he released as much albums, both solo and in groups. The Frank Boeijen Homepage is being prepared as we speak. Listen to some of the recent Happy Gift & Birthday tapes for a few of his many beautiful songs. Check 'em out, Emmy! :-) Regards, ** Marcel F G Rijs - "Conan the librarian" ** Internet: mfgr@bart.nl ** CIS: 100276,2176 ** WWW: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/marcel ------------------------------ From: MJM Date: 10 Jan 96 13:45:16 EST Subject: vance and jane connection Sorry, I'm still catching up from the new year deluge of posts. Meredith expressed some surprise hearing that Jane Siberry sings on a track in Vance Gilbert's latest offering, Fugitives. If you had been paying attention when I talked about Vance before, you'd be less surprised -- because John Switzer (aka Switz) produced that album. I must have mentioned this about 2 months ago. I personally still think the best stuff Gilbert has done is just him and a guitar (or no guitar at all - he sings great a cappella). But hey, I'm glad he's got 2 records out now and working with Switz and Jane must have been pretty cool, ay? - -mjm [after all the complaining I always hear from east-coasters about how bad the weather is in chicago, could NYC, Philly, and D.C. possibly get *enough* snow? ;-)] ------------------------------ From: damon harper Date: Tue, 09 Jan 1996 13:00:31 -0800 Subject: male artists well, heck, i may be a bit late, and i may be a bit busy, but it's never too late to catch up on ecto... so here we go: definitely: genesis (all periods, though mainly early to middle) and peter gabriel (wonderful music and lyrics), crash test dummies (brad roberts' voice and wit are interesting), moxy fruvous (harmonies, silliness), arrogant worms (umm... sillines :) maybe: sugarcubes (not a major obsession, but i do have a fondness for einar's screaming ;), the nylons (well, i have one album and love the harmonising, but am not interested in looking further), pet shop boys (_very_ only, not sure why as it's not something i'd normally see myself liking, but...), roxette (per gessle's voice), phil collins (earlier solo stuff) potentially embarrassing: starship ('s last couple of albums... my one excursion into that breed of 80's pop/rock), peter cetera (i simply love his voice, and one or two of the songs he has done stand up on their own, but not most of them - this is interesting because i like debbie gibson's voice for the same quality, but can't tolerate her music at all... maybe i just can't take brainless music from a female singer after being exposed to ecto ;) well, that's what's in my collection at least, as far as male vocalists go. nowhere near the number of female artists. the first four are the only ones i like to the degree that i like most of the female artists, i think. some of the others that have been mentioned here i might like but haven't heard. damon (who is desparately trying to readjust his sleeping schedule from nocturnal to school-normal... but so far has missed three out of four morning classes this year :/ ) _/\_ Damon_Harper@mindlink.bc.ca __\ /__ "...please consider me as an Vancouver, BC, Canada \ / alternative to suicide?" |/||\| - Prince Humperdinck, http://www.dfw.net/~soulmate/damon/paukarut.html in The Princess Bride ------------------------------ From: Neal Copperman Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 16:44:47 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Caroline Lavelle On Tue, 9 Jan 1996 jeffy@wam.umd.edu wrote: > A friend just gave me Caroline Lavelle's _Spirit_ as a late Hanukah > present I had this in my hand during my year end CD splurge in Minneapolis, but put it back for some reason. > So, like, what's the scoop on her? I know she's played cello for Peter > Gabriel (she's all over _Us_), Heidi Berry, and Loreena McKennitt. Any > others I should know about? (It's odd to me to get an album by an artist > new to me, only to find out I already own several CDs on which they perform) I've been embarking on a ridiculous database cataloging of my cd's, but it's kind of fun. I've noticed a number of people showing up much more often than I had expected, in some pretty weird places. So far I've got 4 appearances by Caroline Lavelle: The track Morecambe Bay by Alex Gifford on _Plus From Us_ _Dream_ by U. Srinivas and Michael Brook. (This also has Jane Siberry and Nigel Kennedy on it. Maybe that's your Kennedy/Lavelle connection?) _by the time it gets dark_ by Mary Black _One Simple Word_ by The Connells (which also has an appearance by Kate St. John, who has surprised me by showing up a few times also) The first two are Realworld releases, and I think she shows up on a number of other Realworld discs. Neal ------------------------------ From: Charley.Darbo@harpercollins.com (Charley Darbo) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 16:17:21 -0500 Subject: replies to replies about my bb Richard writes, in response to my "musings ['Insofar as the understanding communicated is true, it is beautiful.']": - -Success is quite relative, both in the abstract and depending upon who - -hears it. IMHO, an honest attempt makes for fine art as well... This is very near what I meant by "insofar as [it] is true . . ." To the extent that the communication is true, i.e. is "an honest attempt," it is beautiful. I'm defining beauty here as somehow proportional (or relative) to the truth, or honesty, of a communication. He continues: - -I think that artists also can create terror which is "false" - very - -uncomfortable, but not for the same reasons. False terror is gross, - -like a bad horror flick; it just makes you wonder why anyone would - -bother...though in this society it sells pretty well. I entirely agree; Stephen King, e.g., as opposed to Diamanda. (Please excuse me, SK fans, of whom I know there are many out there. I'm sure you're fans for the same reason that I've read most of his books. What he does, he does brilliantly. I'm talking about _how_ he does what he does, and a little about what he does _not_ do.) To go back to what I was saying in previous posts: I believe that the story we tell ourselves of the universe -- the model we build of it so that we can hold it in our minds -- is colored, moment by moment, by the choices we make and the paths we choose. These decisions are, in turn, influenced by our version of the universe. Cycle upon cycle. SK's story of the universe is, I believe, largely untrue. I'm not talking about his views of the supernatural -- we all create our own metaphors - - - and I'm not talking about factual inaccuracies. This is rough going: I've never really articulated this. Let's try to compare SK's model of evil with Diamanda's. SK seems to have convinced himself that evil is an ancient, external influence that might be visited upon any old joe, though he usually supplies his victims with enough guilt to confuse the issue, and to ambiguously suggest that this evil is punitive. In this way he rejects responsibility for this evil. (Even if it is applied as due punishment, the responsibility for that punishment is assigned to an external agent.) This allows him (and hence, us) to focus on the victim of the evil, which, as we know, is the vicarious thrill of a SK story. SK, by loading his victims with guilt, gives himself permission to torture them. (We, as a society, have institutionalized this impulse as capital punishment and Geraldo.) On the other hand, Diamanda seems to believe, as I do, that evil is a human invention. (Let's not get into a discussion of cats and mice, etc.: We might just as well attempt the angels-on-a-pinhead or the chicken-or-the-egg insolubles. The difference, I believe, is intention: conscious choice.) Her art is largely an indictment of human evil visited upon human victims: She accuses the guilty; SK accuses the universe. So I believe, in other words, that Hitler can be comprehended by a human consciousness; I don't believe he requires a supernatural explanation. To insist otherwise is to deny our responsibility for the evil we commit. This denial is, of course, the reason we cling to supernatural explanations: It lets us off the hook; allows us to believe ourselves incapable of similar evil. But this is not true. So, where does this leave the victims of true -- albeit human -- evil? Let's take another example that's enough a part of our present- day culture to be assumed familiar: Sibyl. Here's a child who's tortured so severely and so relentlessly that the path she chooses as a way to survive -- give me a minute here -- is almost entirely false. Yes, she _chooses_ this path. Now I'll be the first to admit that, considering the choices open to her, she may well have made the best decisions possible. After all, the classic analogy of being stuck between a rock and a hard place does not describe a situation in which one has _no_ choices, but one in which neither of the choices is a _good_ one. Our memory, be it conscious or un-, of the moment at which we made that choice -- e.g. to become "deluded/insane/in-denial/ [whatever]" rather than to die, -- is what makes guilt (often unjustified) such a major component of so many "delusions/[etc.]". Is this making any sense? I don't want to sound like I'm accusing a victim, no matter how horrendous the situation, of making his/her own bed; only that we make the bargains we must in order to survive, and that some of us are thrust into situations in which the _best_ possible option, through no fault of our own, may be not much of a bargain at all. So we pick up our new baggage, and we trudge on. And it may be the unconscious acknowledgement of that moment of choice that makes so many of us hold on to these "delusions/[etc.]" long after their survival value has worn away. So what am I saying here? I'm _not_ saying that everything that happens to us is our own fault. I'm not saying that we're stuck with the consequences of choices we've made under the most extreme circumstances. Well, yes I am; but the key word is "we", not "stuck". Even if we need help -- and we often need help -- ultimately, the choices are ours, their consequences are ours, and their "correction (for want of a less severe word)" is our own responsiblity. Again, Richard writes: - -I think that we sheild ourselves *so much* that when we do catch a - -glimpse of our true selves and thier relation to all the other selves - -in this world, it seems a divine revelation; something so simple yet - -so hard to achieve, that people build up religions, dogmas, and - -practices just to try to see it again; we over-philosophize instead of - -dancing, we compare how enlightened we are, rather than seeking the - -truth; we condemn and categorize instead of listening and loving. - -What greater terror that this, and the effects it brings to bear upon - -the human condition? If I understand you correctly, I agree. These moments of clarity, these epiphanies, touch us and shock us, and we try to recreate the _symptoms_ of their visitations, through the adrenaline rush of fear; the chemical epiphanies of pharmaceuticals; or the planned, rehearsed epiphanies of religion. But as they are not real -- as they have an external, rather than an internal, source -- they contribute to the tangling of our feet along this metaphorical path I keep returning to. This is not to say that I don't think a genuine epiphany can have an external catalyst. Here's where art comes in. We _share_ our epiphanies through art. And if we recognize an epiphany thus communicated, rather than merely learning it off, we can experience the same moment of truth. Religion can function in the same way as art (again: We choose our own metaphors). --charleydarbo ------------------------------ From: spanglemaker Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 16:26:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: rose chronicles, etc so i finally waded trhough all of my back email and now have this craving to buy about 72 more cds, thanks to everyone's lists. but before i run out, a few questions-- are there any full length rose chronicles cds? i have the 5 or 6 song dead and gone to heaven, which i like very much, but have not been able to find anything else. what does poe sound like? what does ruby sound like? thanks, chandra ------------------------------ From: Kerry White Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 18:08:30 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: whatever happened to.... Hello, On Wed, 10 Jan 1996, Donahue, Jim wrote: > Since we seem to be on a "whatever happened to" thread of > late.... > > Does anyone know what happened to a band called Eye to Eye? I got a resonance of recognition on the name and finally the penny dropped. Did they do an EP that incl a song called,"Hunger Pains"? If so, I have it and can check the names, etc. Am at work until late. Hunger Pains was the only 1 I cared for but I loved it and can 'hear' it in my head now. KrW It was the least I could do! And never let it be said that I didn't do the least I could do. ------------------------------ From: maeldun@i-2000.com (Michael Doyle) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 19:19:50 EST Subject: Re: rose chronicles, etc Hi Chandra, At 04:26 PM 1/10/96 -0500, spanglemaker wrote: > >are there any full length rose chronicles cds? i have the 5 or 6 song There's _Shiver_, a Netwerk release. I find it merely ok, but others here love it. And isn't there a new Rose Chronicles album in the works? Art? >what does poe sound like? Poe sounds good, although it took me two listens to realize this. For the most part (for the best parts) her music sounds like Portishead. In other spots, it could be Garbage. Her voice reminds me of Edie Brickell and some songs exhibit traces of the singer-songwriter stuff ala Tori Amos (for lack of a better comparison :) ). Tschuess, - - Mike Michael Doyle maeldun@i-2000.com =================================================================== "'Normal' is not a word I like to use." - - Dr. Katz, Professional Therapist ------------------------------ From: 32 flavors and then some Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 19:39:32 -0500 Subject: Re: rose chronicles, etc spanglemaker sez: >are there any full length rose chronicles cds? yup. one. it's called _shiver_. on nettwerk. >what does poe sound like? what does ruby sound like? um. both are coming from the same general place - a rhythmic foundation from hip hop and dance music, liberally sprinkled with some ambient, industrial, rock trappings. postmodern dance music? poe is softer and she has a sweeter voice than lesley rankine's growl, which, at times, you can almost feel the spit from. woj ------------------------------ From: Jessica Koeppel Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 17:01:48 -0800 Subject: male ecto Hmm. I hate making lists 'cause I always forget something obvious. Or many things. :) But I can tell you what I've got here in my office: oingo boingo, they might be giants, james, peter murphy, peter gabriel, marillion, talk talk (spirit of eden/laughing stock), REM, david sylvian, tears for fears, NIN, the sisters of mercy, not drowning, waving, simple minds, mike oldfield, erasure, live. people/bands i've listened to recently enough at home that they're in my mind: jimmy somerville, the presidents of the united states of america, blur. bands that tend to have both female and male vocals that I listen to a lot (and feel the male vocals are an integral part of) include: sky cries mary, fleetwood mac, arson garden. I am sure there are many other male artists in my collection at home that are worth mentioning but I'm not even going to try to list 'em. --jessica ------------------------------ From: Neal Copperman Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 20:06:29 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: replies to replies about my bb On Wed, 10 Jan 1996, Charley Darbo wrote: > Again, Richard writes: > > -I think that we shield ourselves *so much* that when we do catch a > -glimpse of our true selves and their relation to all the other selves > -in this world, it seems a divine revelation; something so simple yet > -so hard to achieve, that people build up religions, dogmas, and > -practices just to try to see it again; ........ > ... These moments of clarity, > these epiphanies, touch us and shock us, and we try to recreate the > _symptoms_ of their visitations, through the adrenaline rush of fear; > the chemical epiphanies of pharmaceuticals; or the planned, rehearsed > epiphanies of religion. I think religions, dogmas, philosophies, drugs, (and to a lesser extent art, music, theater) are often used to PREVENT glimpsing our true self. Sure, some of those things CAN open up paths to the inner self, but much of the time they only prevent exploration, presenting pre-packaged answers or experiences, rather than forcing the individual to discover truths themselves. Of course, anything can be used as a trigger for self-exploration, but I don't think that's the impetus behind most of these. (That list is obviously to encompassing and varied for that kind of blanket statement, as there are certainly examples for and against my claim in each subject, but I'll leave it anyway.) Neal ------------------------------ From: neilg@sfu.ca (Neil K.) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 17:11:41 -0700 Subject: Re: tori and pronunciation At 4:32 AM on 1/10/96, Sage wrote: >Well, it doesn't sound English to me, but I have to say that although >I enjoy her music, whatever that accent thing that she does is it >definitely gets on my nerves. I mean, I *love* the song Baker, Baker >but it's inevitably like nails on a blackboard when she sings, > >"Baker, baker, baking a ceeeeeeeeeek" Heh. Well, sometimes singers modify vowels to make them easier to sing. That's fairly normal - it's easier to sing an "eh" sound than a sharp "ay" sound, for instance. Especially if the vowel is sustained. Classically trained singers do it all the time, I believe. My theory regarding Ms. Amos is that it's a combination of that and somewhat pretentious marketing, like the humping piano bench routine. (ie: you start out doing something but then exaggerate it as it becomes more and more of a trademark) - Neil K. - -- Neil K. Guy * neilg@sfu.ca * tela@tela.bc.ca 49N 16' 123W 7' * Vancouver, BC, Canada ------------------------------ From: Kerry White Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 20:04:12 -0600 (CST) Subject: eye-to-eye Hello, Oops! The penny dropped farther: a visual of another group's EP, mixed w/ memory of Hunger Pain's being on a reel-2-reel tape I once made. Yes, I've heard of them: no, I don't know her name. Sorry! KrW In order to learn from your mistakes, make lots of mistakes. ------------------------------ From: basil@naxs.com (Brad Hutchinson) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 21:16:56 -0500 Subject: Free loving cup remix I'm not sure if anyone else has posted this or not. So, I'll post and hope not to waste your space and time. Addicted to Noise (http://www.addict.com/) gives a free cd for singing up or doing a survey or something. I can't remember what we did but it got us a free cd. I think it was basically answering demographic questions. The cd they sent us includes Jane Siberry's remix of "Loving Cup." The rest of it isn't bad either. Well, some of it isn't. . . It's free. . . no postage and handling or nothin' And the site is pretty interesting too. I haven't searched to see what they have on Jane et al. but there is a search tool included on the site. hope you're all warm and cozy, brad Accuracy of observation is the equivalent of accuracy of thinking. - --Wallace Stevens brad hutchinson: bhutchin@pen.k12.va.us or Jill Sunderlin and brad basil@netaccess.naxs.com ------------------------------ From: Neile Graham Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 18:24:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: Meryn Cadell live I'm slowly catching up on a large backlog of ecto messages, caused by my focus on revising a novel, then the trip to DC then the holiday season. Anyway, everyone can brace themselves for a string of messages requesting permission to use comments for the Guide. Anyway, while going through the messages I saw that Neal had asked if anyone had seen Meryn Cadell live. We did. She toured between _Angel Food for Thought_ and _Bombazine_, and played at the Backstage (famous for being the closet place for good music to where we live and for being the site of the first Tori bootleg disc). Anyway, Meryn was wonderful live--but very, very like the discs. Still, her material goes over better when you can see her face, so that was great. She was got some of the effects by playing with a little kid's tape deck. All in all it was very entertaining and I was even more impressed with her voice after seeing her live. - --Neile ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V2 #342 ************************** ======================================================================== Please send any questions or comments about the list to ecto-owner@nsmx.rutgers.edu