From: owner-ecto-digest To: ecto-digest@ns2.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto-digest V2 #340 Reply-To: ecto@nsmx.rutgers.edu Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Tuesday, 9 January 1996 Volume 02 : Number 340 The Ecto digest is now being generated automatically. Please send problems and questions to: ecto-owner@nsmx.rutgers.edu. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Anthony Kosky Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 10:59:30 -0800 Subject: Roy Harper, James Varda woj-the-all-powerful wojjed: >i've noticed that a lot of stormcock subscribers (the roy harper >mailing list) feel this way, but i still say that _once_ is quite >excellent, KaTe bush appearance nonwithstanding. i always very moved by >it and think it's quite musically good. you do have to agree that it's >a good introduction. I wouldn't claim that it's not good, just that I felt alot of the others are better. I think it's more the recording/production/general-feel of the album doesn't do the songs justice, though the songs themselves are good. Actually, now I think about it, Unhinged, which is a fairly recent live album, would be the place I would recommend starting. It gives a much better impression of what Roy is about I think. >damn! forgot nick drake too. sheesh! if i only had a brain.... Brains are an overated organ. IMHO You're much better off with a nice, healthy liver instead. >james varda...i *think* i have a copy of one of his albums. i don't >recall the title, but i think the cover is a psychedlic pastel blue and >hot pink mixture. funny the things i remember. James Varda only had one album, called The Hunger. My copy, as I recall, was black with a photograph as a vertical strip on it, and was on Murmer records. I saw him play twice: once before the album came out when he was opening for Roy Harper, and once a year or so later, after the album had come out. The second time he had alot of new material, and he said there was a second album in the works, but it never happened and unfortunately he seems to have dissapeared without trace. Very intense and moving stuff, but a bit to depressing to listen to often. - -Anthony ------------------------------ From: pearceja@mailgw.wl.wpafb.af.mil Date: Tue, 9 Jan 96 14:17:08 -0500 Subject: A Friendly Correction I N T E R O F F I C E M E M O R A N D U M Date: 09-Jan-1996 11:02am EST From: Jeffrey A. Pearce (Contractor) PEARCEJA Dept: POPR (UTC) Tel No: 54171 TO: Remote MILNET Mail ( _DDN[ecto@ns2.rutgers.edu] ) Subject: A Friendly Correction Michael Stevens in reply to mjm wrote: >> OK, 2 things about The Keep. 1) I thought I knew something about YES, >> but obviously I know nothing, because none of the songs in this medley >> are songs I've ever heard... so, what are they, and on what >> albums/compilations? > >The one I was most pleased to hear covered was "Soon," which isn't really >a separate Yes song, but the last movement of "Relayer," the dizzying >journey that is the first side of the album of the same name. _Relayer_ Actually, I believe this song is called "The Gates of Delerium," not "Relayer." Jeff Pearce ------------------------------ From: DrDave56@aol.com Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 14:18:21 -0500 Subject: Martha's Vineyard BTW - as I am new to this group I made a post before I generally knew what <> Ecto was. Sorry. Would it be inappropriate to ask for a brief explanation of <> this group so I don't blunder or offend? < A. Blunder away, while flames don't exist here it *is* warm and anyone who thinks that men can't write songs with the emotional impact >of, say, tori amos neeeds to really track down _over_ by peter hammill. A resounding YES (as she bobs her head up and down in Beavis & Butthead fashion). I have too mentioned Hammill here before... the man is quite intense in all the music he performs. "Over" chronicles his divorce (if i'm not mistaken, his wife left him for the keyboard player in his on again/off again band VanDerGraf Generator) .... and a painful self realization about how the breakup all came to be. If you like Peter Gabriel's more poingant material, you'll like Hammill's stuff - their voices are somewhat similar in style... and painfully honest and raw with emotion. Delving more into what Woj was talking about wrt the influence of men on women in music... I hate to admit (here on ecto) but a good portion of the music I listen to is written by / performed by men. Oh yeah.. my list of "men i listen to": Genesis / P. Gabriel, P. Hammill, Yes, King Crimson, Queen, Marillion, Jellyfish, Elvis Costello, XTC, Joe Jackson, Beatles, Badfinger, Zeppelin, Who, Kinks, Elton John (pre 1980), Bowie, earlier Pink Floyd, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, (okay... enough already..) *whew* I find that the women artists who have male energy present, whether from a songwriting standpoint, or life experience, producer, friend, bandmate... are much more dynamic and interesting... I guess.... more balanced. Tori admits musical influence by Robert Plant (not to mention the boyfriends and assorted other men who have crossed her path i.e. Neil Gaiman) - - , Happy's "men" are Yes, Queen, and Bowie (not to mention Kevin B.) - - KaTe had her collection of men about her (her brothers, P. Gabriel, Del Palmer, etc. etc.), even kd lang has Ben Mink! I am not going to make you suffer through one of my million page diatribes about the yin/yang of music... but we all need each other to help balance the energy. cut me off before I go on...... + - + - + - + - + - + - + Oh yeah...... 12 MONKEYS!!!! ... if you like Terry Gilliam's films... you MUST SEE THIS ONE!!! oooooh Brad Pitt wins psycho of the year award in my book.. I won't spoil any of the story except to say it offers another grim view of the future / apocalypse or no apocalypse... lots of wide angle shots, dream sequences, strange characters, grim humour, *aieeeeee!* ----------------------------------------- Another good film I got to see this weekend was "Theremin" about Leon Teremen (I think that's how his name was properly spelled) the man who invented the instrument... the wwwwoooooeeeeeee sounding thing that graced the soundtrack of so many 40's - 50's horror / suspense films.. as well as the Beach Boys song "Good Vibrations". Interesting story about what happened to the man.. (he was a Russian defector from what I gather...the KGB hauled him back to Russia back in the late 30's early 40's) The funniest part of the whole film, that almost pays for the price of admission... is the almost painful to watch sequence with Brian Wilson (Beach Boys) who if you know anything about the man... the rational part of his brain has been dogfood for years (I really respect his music tho...) Poor soul goes on for a good solid 5 minutes about the "age group" that he thought "Good Vibrations" was to relate to... so he basically loses his train of thought and is hardly able to finish the conversation because he becomes so confused. I felt so bad for him... but the all to human side of me thought it was kind of funny to watch (you wanted to say... someone nudge him.. please!!!). -------------------------------------- ANYWAY.. i'm going back to "work" now... have a lovely day. *Amy* (who wishes she was home with the felines.. . and/or my significant other....snuggly buggly under the covers......) ------------------------------ From: neilg@sfu.ca (Neil K.) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 12:15:16 -0700 Subject: Re: Thwump... At 6:19 AM on 1/9/96, DeFalco, Amy wrote: >Oh yeah...... 12 MONKEYS!!!! ... if you like Terry Gilliam's films... you >MUST SEE THIS ONE!!! oooooh Brad Pitt wins psycho of the year award in my >book.. I won't spoil any of the story except to say it offers another grim >view of the future / apocalypse or no apocalypse... lots of wide angle >shots, dream sequences, strange characters, grim humour, *aieeeeee!* Plus additional bonus points for classiness for having Astor Piazzola do the title track. Wasn't a bad film. Totally Terry Gilliam - with all the pros and cons that entails... - Neil K. - -- Neil K. Guy * neilg@sfu.ca * tela@tela.bc.ca 49N 16' 123W 7' * Vancouver, BC, Canada ------------------------------ From: "Xenu's Sister" Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 12:38:17 -0600 (CST) Subject: Enya on TV tomorrow morning I haven't seen this mentioned...Enya is scheduled to be on American TV, "CBS This Morning" tomorrow morning (Wednesday, the 10th). It starts at 7:00am Central Standard time. I don't know what she'll be doing, it's just listed "Singer Enya" in the TV Guide. Vickie ------------------------------ From: MJM Date: 09 Jan 96 17:22:39 EST Subject: Innocence Mission in Chicago Just in case chicago readers are not aware of this, Innocence Mission is playing at the Park West next Wed. at 7:30. The opening act is 16 HorsePower. Price is a mere $10. Tix should still be available at the door the day of the show. Unlike some people here, I think Glow is great, and in fact every album from IM is genius. And Karen Peris is brilliant. And the band is wonderful. I saw them at Schubas a few months ago and it was a revelatory experience. This is of course my opinion. But I would encourage anyone who is around to take advantage of seeing a *great* band in a *great* venue for a *cheap* price (relatively) - -- plus it likely will not sell out, meaning you don't have to get there 2 hours before the show to get a good seat. I know nothing about the opening act. Has anyone ever heard of them? I hope we can get a good contingent of ecto people there. If you are in Chicago and have not heard their music, I could even lend you a CD or two. Send email. - -mjm ------------------------------ From: MJM Date: 09 Jan 96 17:22:50 EST Subject: Innocence Mission The date of that show (Park West, Chicago), just to be absolutely unambiguous, is Jan. 17. - -mjm ------------------------------ From: 32 flavors and then some Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 19:01:23 -0500 Subject: Re: What ever happened to anthony@xymox.apana.org.au (Anthony Horan) sez: >I honestly never imagined that Martha's Vineyard had been heard of outside >Australia - in fact, most people here never heard of them! >Martha's Vineyard got their record deal when they submitted a tape to the >RooArt label for possible inclusion on one of their (seemingly now >discontinued) "Young Blood" series of CDs; RooArt promptly signed them. the first young blood compilation was pushed heavily onto american college radio stations by whichever record label distributed rooart in the states (polygram?) in whatever year it was released (1989? 1990?). fortunately, it did not need to be pushed much at all as it was one of the best compilations of that year. as a result of its success, polygram decided to carry and support the rooart label which resulted in the stateside release of the martha's vinyard album, as well as records by tall tales and true, the trilobites, the hummingbirds and 1313 mockingbird lane. there was a second rooart compilation ("young blood 2"), but i don't recall hearing it more than once. woj ------------------------------ From: Richard Holmes Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 18:05:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: more on diamanda (& yoko) --indirectly To: ecto@ns2.rutgers.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Sender: owner-ecto@ns2.rutgers.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Charley.Darbo@harpercollins.com (Charley Darbo) Status: RO > I bought Yoko's _Rising_ over the weekend. Trying to find >language for it keeps taking me back to the recent Diamandiana: I'm >still trying to find a theory of truth (read: art) that encompasses >both beauty and horror. > > I think that this is the one thing that I demand of art: that it >have truth in it. It doesn't have to be my truth (though I'll >probably recognize it more quickly if it's familiar); but it must be >the artist's truth. I strive to find beauty in that. That's the >beauty of Diamanda's work, and of Martin Scorsese's, and of Pie rPaolo >Pasolini's, of Joel Peter Witkins's, and of Yoko Ono's. For me, I see art as the attempt to communicate a "truth of the soul", to allow the true self to speak. We as a species and a society have so many set ways of thinking and behaving; we must put forth our masks in order to survive in the society, all the while hiding our true selves. We become so used to our masks that we can no longer find our true selves any more, at least not without effort. But that longing for the true self is so great, that people will join a monastary, become a Zen Bhuddist, or anything that tears away the mask and reveals the soul. Some try by seeking dominance, money, power-over; this is the misguided attempt to regain that truth of the self that is lost via living in a society which is so out of balance with respect to respecting people for what they are, their true selves, rather than their masks they're supposed to wear. Seeing someone speak to you from their heart and soul, speaking from their true self, helps connect you with them, as well as your own true self. You can see parts of yourself reflected in their truth; and notice the grand diversity of the human experience through your differences. Just one of the reasons good music can be so inspiring. > To ask only comfort of art is, I think, to willingly shutter all >the other windows into your mind. Taking that which pains you, or taking the structures that bind you, and giving them form in a piece of art is one way of showing the truth; sometimes not only to one's self, but to others as well. If you can *see* and *feel* and *recognize* what's holding you back, what your pain is, you can find how to move beyond it. An artist showing their prison to you helps you realise how you too are imprisoned by the masks you wear in this society. You are also assured, when confronted with anguish and despair in a piece of art, that your condition is not unique; every soul on this earth suffers, yet in a different form; in this manner are we all connected, a part of the whole of evolution. > From James M.Cain's _Serenade_. An opera singer has been >explaining to a ship's captain why he prefers the overtures of >Rossini (the Top40 fluff of its day) to the music of Beethoven. >The captain responds: > >- "I think much about beauty, sitting alone at night, listening >-to my wireless, and trying to get the reason of it, and understand >-how a man like [Richard] Strauss can put the worst sounds on the >-surface that ever profaned the night, and yet give me something I >-can sink my teeth into. This much I know: True beauty has _terror_ >-in it. Now I shall reply to your contemptuous words about Beethoven. >-He has _terror_ in him, and your overture writers have not. Fine >-music they wrote. . . But you can drop a stone into Beethoven, and >-you will never hear it strike bottom. The eternities and the >-infinities are in it, and they strike at the soul, like death. . . ." > . . . Not a hundred feet from the ship a black fin lifted out of >-the water. It was an ugly thing to see. It was at least thirty >-inches high, and it didn't zigzag, or cut a V in the water, or any >-of the things it does in books. It just came up and stayed a few >-seconds. Then there was the swish of a big tail and it went down. >- "Did you see it, lad?" >- "God, it was an awful looking thing, wasn't it?" >- "It cleared up for me what I've been trying to say to you. Sit >-here, now, and look. The water, the surf, the colors on the shore. >-You think they make the beauty of the tropical sea, aye, lad? >-They do not. 'Tis the knowledge of what lurks below the surface >-of it, that awful-looking thing, as you call it, that carries death >-with every move it makes. So it is, so it is with all beauty. . . . > And similarly, with this divine gift of life we've been given, this miracle of creation which allows us to hear... yes, even create, the music of Loreena McKennitt, Happy Rhodes, and all of the artist mentioned here, there lurks the terror beneath. That we could squander this gift by contributing to acts which knowingly cause others to live in pain for our own selfish reasons, to rape and pillage the mother earth, killing the creatures upon her without regard, to endanger the species and the hope of (physically and spiritually) evolving past our difficult times into the potential of a heightened ability to create the soul-stirring music, the ecstatic dance, and infinite mystery which a few thousand or million years of evolution might afford our life-forms then .... that is one of the terrors. If you have a thousand and one nights, I could probably come up with a few more. > More, perhaps, later; these thoughts still half-formed: merely >the acknowledgement of a bb rattling around in my brain, not the bb >itself. > --charleydarbo I apologize if I've rambled into topics others may not want to hear, but I could spew forth words on this topic for a long time, so I'll cut it short. - -Richard. \@/ | Richard A. Holmes (rholmes@cs.stanford.edu) \|/ | "Drum to your future, Sing your dreams alive!" , , | , , ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' Loreena McKennitt / Kate Bush / Katell Keineg / Happy Rhodes / Renaissance / Sheila Chandra / Laura Love / Jane Siberry / Fairport Convention / Danielle Dax / Dog Faced Hermans ------------------------------ From: Richard Holmes Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 18:39:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: further musings on my bb I was so excited that my mail box got to under 100 entries for the first time in a month, that I posted without reading the followups... well, I'm doing it again, folks! =8^) Charley.Darbo@harpercollins.com writes: > Art is the attempt to give language (in the broadest sense of >the word) to one's understanding of the universe; this is its link >to science. Great Art (like Great Science) is any _successful_ such >endeavor. Insofar as the understanding communicated is true, it is >beautiful. Success is quite relative, both in the abstract and depending upon who hears it. IMHO, an honest attempt makes for fine art as well... > Each of us must attempt to encompass the universe in our mind, >so that we can believe that we have a place in it; thus we are >conscious. (This is the folly we commit to label ourselves sane; >those who acknowledge the impossibility of this task we call insane. >In subtle ways, however, we remind ourselves that this is truly >unachievable: _art_ificial.) To encompass the universe, to hold >it in our imagination, we must create for ourselves an understanding >of it: We must grasp it: We must _grok_ it. (In this sense, we are >all artists.) > Those of us who feel the need to document this ancient, internal >process; to convert it to a form which allows us to offer it to >others, either so that they may witness our struggle or so that they >may try on our universe to see if it fits; to give it a language; >we are the ones who are called -- who call ourselves, at any rate -- >artists. > For most people, the discovery (let alone the documentation) of >real truth in oneself is as difficult as levitation. Thus the rarity >of Great Art. Many artists, who understand this innately, are afraid >of their own truth. So they go through the motions, they learn and >master the techniques, and they declare that they have found their >truth; while really they are hiding from it in terror. These artists, >who will not allow themselves to embrace the terror that is a part of >the fabric of truth, who selfishly refuse to experience anything but >comfort, will, paradoxically, never find true comfort: Though they >pretend to have achieved their goal, there will never be an end to >their struggle, because one can never encompass the whole universe. >The only true state of the artist is doubt. Looking in the mirror is terrifying, even when a few of our masks have been peeled away. It can question everything we know; that is why it is so easy to cast out "false dragons" to slay... we don't have to face our true selves... I think that artists also can create terror which is "false" - very uncomfortable, but not for the same reasons. False terror is gross, like a bad horror flick; it just makes you wonder why anyone would bother... though in this society it sells pretty well. > Now. This is where it gets subjective. For me, there is no >art in Stephen King's work, because there's nothing there I >recognize as truth. There _is_ art in Jim Thompson's novels (again, >_for me:_ Please assume this in all my pomposities), despite their >frequent dismissal as "pulp", because there is recognizable truth >in them. This may be the false terror I spoke of... I'm a bit of a media recluse, esp. movies and tv, and don't go for the "horror" genre, but do indulge in a few terrifying pieces of art now and again. > In our task of defining our universe, we invent gods, we ignore >-- and then destroy -- any proof that the story we tell ourselves is >wrong. Most of us -- really, almost every one of us -- shield >ourselves from our truth with some version of untruth. We brick >up our unconscious with whatever you want to call it: neuroses, >complexes, religion, obsessions, drugs, TV. Artists that cannot >break through that, whose art comes not from their truth but from >the surface of its protective shell -- the goal of whose art is >safety; is reinforcement (support, approval, whatever) of that shell >-- produce art that comforts. Norman Rockwell, Debbie Gibson, Ron >Howard, et al, by giving us what seems most familiar are, >paradoxically, giving us anything but truth. They are reflecting >back at us our mythology, our insulating inventions, which build up >like furniture wax and, if we're not careful, cloud our vision of >that impossbility; that thing that exists only as an unobtainable >goal; that thing that is defined by its absence and destroyed by >its capture: the real truth. > This is why I celebrate Diamanda. Not because she has answers, >but because she seems to be struggling to understand the question. > > --charleydarbo I think that we sheild ourselves *so much* that when we do catch a glimpse of our true selves and thier relation to all the other selves in this world, it seems a divine revelation; something so simple yet so hard to achieve, that people build up religions, dogmas, and practices just to try to see it again; we over-philosophize instead of dancing, we compare how enlightened we are, rather than seeking the truth; we condemn and categorize instead of listening and loving. What greater terror that this, and the effects it brings to bear upon the human condition? - -Richard. \@/ | Richard A. Holmes (rholmes@cs.stanford.edu) \|/ | "Drum to your future, Sing your dreams alive!" , , | , , ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' Loreena McKennitt / Kate Bush / Katell Keineg / Happy Rhodes / Renaissance / Sheila Chandra / Laura Love / Jane Siberry / Fairport Convention / Danielle Dax / Dog Faced Hermans ------------------------------ From: "Deepspace" Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 22:07:33 +0000 Subject: Re: vernon vs. amos via seligman Anthony Horan writes: > woj says of a Nan Vernon song: > > >just noticed that matthew seligman - bassist extrordinaire - is all > >over this record. he also played on a couple songs from _little > >earthquakes_. > > Ah, the reappearance of one of my favorite bassists! I still stand by my suggestion, too, that > Tori should try working with him again, even if only for a one-off track for > a film or similar. I liked the results of their collaborations a lot; Tori > had nothing but praise for him, by the way, but I suspect now that she's > moved into self-production there'll be no turning back. :-) Boy, I love a list where attention is paid to bassists! I subscribed to The Bottom Line for a while, but with ecto, that was too much volume. Still, this was a pleasure to read! Robert ------------------------------ From: THE OLIVE-LOAF VIGILANTE Date: Tue, 09 Jan 1996 22:17:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: tori news source et al. Hi! Tori-heads who are on neither the electronic mailing list nor subscribed to the print fanzine Really Deep Thoughts should check out the RDT Web page: http://members.aol.com/rdteditor/rdt.htm. It's updated pretty much daily I think, and has all the juicy info about the impending media blitz surrounding the advent of _Boys for Pele_. Of particular interest to US 'philes is Tori's upcoming appearance on Saturday Night Live on January 20. She's also going to be on Top of the Pops in the UK by the end of the month. D^2 reported: >Emily gave me a ride home and we chatted about her upcoming album a bit. >She's getting ready to start recording it (within the next month), aiming >for a May release. Yay!!!!! I can't wait! >Her new material (some of which some of you heard >when she played in NYC last summer) is a bit hook-ier than _Grandmother's >Tea Leaves_; she's calling it her "pop" album, though it's the most >sophisticated-sounding "pop" I've ever come across. Emily may never be a >*big* star, but she's definitely going to make a dent with this record, >you can mark my words. Cool! Any chance of a repeat East Coast performance? Just wanted to point out woj's daily mantra here: >if i only had a brain.... ;> Laurel relayed: >The acoustic gothic folk duo, The Flash Girls, appear this Wednesday, >January 10th, at the Sidewalk Cafe in New York City. Show starts at >7:30pm. You might want to contact the venue just to double check >things.... particularly with this crazy weather. The Flash Girls (and >roadie) plan to be there, but you never know. Sorry I don't have a phone >number or address for the venue. The Sidewalk Cafe is located on the corner of 6th and Ave. A, 'way down in the East Village. Very teeny place, but a nice place to see a small show like that. Too bad it's going to be starting too early for me to make it. :( >The Flash Girls second album, MAURICE AND I, has been named to a couple >of ten best lists for Minneapolis area local albums. Quite a feat >considering the quality and quantity of stuff released by Minnesotan >artists this year. Hey, any Minneapolis-area 'philes hear of a small-time band from Carleton College called The Lentils? Kind of your basic college-rock-mit-female- vocals kind of thing. They put out a tape last year, and they play shows in small clubs in Minneapolis and environs. Just curious if anybody's heard of them -- my best friend's kid brother is the lead guitarist. They do a killer version of the Sesame Street classic, "One Two Three Four Five Six Seven Eight Nine Ten Eleven Twelve". :) Joe Zitt related: >My fave theory of art (only somewhat tongue-in-cheek): "You can get >away with anything as long as you make it seem intentional." Did you hear about the guy in Germany who got stuck in his cat door while trying to get in after locking himself out of his house? He stayed there screaming for help for several hours, while scores of people walked by and admired him as a performance art installation. Finally, somebody figured it out and called the fire department. :) Anthony reviewed: >But honestly, "Caught..." is not the strongest track on the album. Wow. That bodes well for the whole thing. :) >Maybe she could use a... band! :-) OK, OK, I'll stop now. Yeah, I was thinking exactly that, but I wasn't going to say anything. ;> Yngve elucidated: >I recently read an interview with Tori Amos in a norwegian mag >about her new album. She is definitly going to have both instruments >on stage at the same time as the recording of the instruments >was done that way. The technician Mark Hawley had to invent some kind of >box to get the sound right. Oooh, this definitely has possibilities... Amy exhorted: >Oh yeah...... 12 MONKEYS!!!! ... if you like Terry Gilliam's films... you >MUST SEE THIS ONE!!! Cool! I *love* Terry Gilliam's films (_Brazil_ still stands in my book as the best film ever made), and I can't wait to see this one. Neil added: > Plus additional bonus points for classiness for having Astor Piazzola do >the title track. Wasn't a bad film. Totally Terry Gilliam - with all the >pros and cons that entails... There are cons to Terry Gilliam films? ;> +===========================================================================+ |Meredith Tarr meth@delphi.com| |Boonton, NJ USA http://remus.rutgers.edu/~woj/meth/| +===========================================================================+ | "Life is a sleazy stranger and this is his favorite bar" - Ani DiFranco | +===========================================================================+ ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V2 #340 ************************** ======================================================================== Please send any questions or comments about the list to ecto-owner@nsmx.rutgers.edu