From: owner-ecto-digest To: ecto-digest@ns2.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto-digest V2 #337 Reply-To: ecto@nsmx.rutgers.edu Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Monday, 8 January 1996 Volume 02 : Number 337 The Ecto digest is now being generated automatically. Please send problems and questions to: ecto-owner@nsmx.rutgers.edu. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Stuart P. Myerburg" Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 13:01:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Two questions from my room-mate Doug wondered: > 1). A version of the Clash song "Train in Vain," sung by a woman in > a very "classic Motown" style (or so said Dan; I didn't actually hear > it). We seek the name of the performer, album or single name, label etc. This was probably Annie Lennox. She sings a version of "Train in Vain" on _Medusa_, her last album. Stuart ------------------------------ From: Charley.Darbo@harpercollins.com (Charley Darbo) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 11:40:18 -0500 Subject: more on diamanda (& yoko) --indirectly I bought Yoko's _Rising_ over the weekend. Trying to find language for it keeps taking me back to the recent Diamandiana: I'm still trying to find a theory of truth (read: art) that encompasses both beauty and horror. I think that this is the one thing that I demand of art: that it have truth in it. It doesn't have to be my truth (though I'll probably recognize it more quickly if it's familiar); but it must be the artist's truth. I strive to find beauty in that. That's the beauty of Diamanda's work, and of Martin Scorsese's, and of Pie rPaolo Pasolini's, of Joel Peter Witkins's, and of Yoko Ono's. To ask only comfort of art is, I think, to willingly shutter all the other windows into your mind. From James M.Cain's _Serenade_. An opera singer has been explaining to a ship's captain why he prefers the overtures of Rossini (the Top40 fluff of its day) to the music of Beethoven. The captain responds: - - "I think much about beauty, sitting alone at night, listening - -to my wireless, and trying to get the reason of it, and understand - -how a man like [Richard] Strauss can put the worst sounds on the - -surface that ever profaned the night, and yet give me something I - -can sink my teeth into. This much I know: True beauty has _terror_ - -in it. Now I shall reply to your contemptuous words about Beethoven. - -He has _terror_ in him, and your overture writers have not. Fine - -music they wrote. . . But you can drop a stone into Beethoven, and - -you will never hear it strike bottom. The eternities and the - -infinities are in it, and they strike at the soul, like death. . . ." . . . Not a hundred feet from the ship a black fin lifted out of - -the water. It was an ugly thing to see. It was at least thirty - -inches high, and it didn't zigzag, or cut a V in the water, or any - -of the things it does in books. It just came up and stayed a few - -seconds. Then there was the swish of a big tail and it went down. - - "Did you see it, lad?" - - "God, it was an awful looking thing, wasn't it?" - - "It cleared up for me what I've been trying to say to you. Sit - -here, now, and look. The water, the surf, the colors on the shore. - -You think they make the beauty of the tropical sea, aye, lad? - -They do not. 'Tis the knowledge of what lurks below the surface - -of it, that awful-looking thing, as you call it, that carries death - -with every move it makes. So it is, so it is with all beauty. . . . More, perhaps, later; these thoughts still half-formed: merely the acknowledgement of a bb rattling around in my brain, not the bb itself. --charleydarbo ------------------------------ From: MJM Date: 08 Jan 96 13:05:58 EST Subject: yes medley, life on mars OK, 2 things about The Keep. 1) I thought I knew something about YES, but obviously I know nothing, because none of the songs in this medley are songs I've ever heard... so, what are they, and on what albums/compilations? 2) After reading hundreds of lauders talking about Life on Mars, I had always assumed it was a cover of the Bowie song (Is there life on mars?) -- can't say I wasn't a little disappointed to discover it wasn't. Don't know about you, but when I'm writing songs I consciously avoid titles that could be misconstrued for already existing songs -- esp. blatant ones like this. Since we know Happy is a Bowie fan, can we not assume that this is a deliberate allusion? Does anyone know for sure? (Life on Mars is one of my very favorite Bowie songs, and I'd *love* to hear Happy cover it.) That is all for now. - -mjm ------------------------------ From: Jessica Koeppel Date: Mon, 08 Jan 1996 10:56:47 -0800 Subject: Re: male ecto-artists Joanna M. Phillips wrote: > > ...and there is Sting. I forget some of the qualifications for "ecto" ... > Well, I don't run ecto anymore, but when I did, when I started it, If i listed "qualifications for ecto" at all, I'd have said (and as a list member, still say this as my own personal opinion) that it's ecto fodder if you like Happy Rhodes, and you also like whatever it is you are telling the list about. That's the only requirement, and it isn't even a terribly firm one. I am pretty certain we have had (and may still ahve) people on the list who don't actually like Happy all that much, but like so much of the rest of the things that get talked about here, that they still find it a valuable source of information (and often friendship). --jessica ------------------------------ From: lakrahn@imho.net (Laurel Krahn) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 1996 13:35:46 -0600 Subject: Re:male ecto-artists At 06:36 AM 1/8/96 +0000, S. Lunsford & T. O'Reilly wrote: >See? Snow isn't *all* bad, 'cause sometimes your pookie even gets a paid >snow day and the two of you can be disgustingly mushy all day :^). Hmmmm. Yet Sage signed her message "the crampy and crabby one"? I mean, if I had a soulmate to stay home with me in a blizzard.... well, I wouldn't be crabby! ;-p (grinning and ducking) Hmmm. This is too timely. On As the World Turns (yes, I watch a couple of soap operas, I can't help it), their having a plane crash today. Presumably due to a blizzard. Heck, the CBS news update with the blizzard news annoyed me, yet it could be seen as a dramatic embellishment for the show... Hope everyone who got dumped on isn't crashing in planes, but home with warmth and such. (I suppose I could quibble and say that airports on the east coast are closed so...) >re: male artists -- I must admit that I very rarely listen to male >vocalists at all anymore. The biggest reason for that is that it's >extremely rare for the lyrics in a song sung by a man to make me >cry/laugh/sing along/smile/feel inspired. Is that because men pick >different songs to sing, or because they sing differently and it just >doesn't have much of an effect on me...? Not sure. (I deleted the unfortunate Phil Collins reference) Male songwriters who write songs that get to me (and also have interesting/distinctive voices): Peter Gabriel, Richard Thompson, and Lyle Lovett. I had a long list earlier, but those are the three who I most like. Though I confess that Michael Smith, Steve Goodman, Richard Shindell, and Greg Brown also manage such songs. Though sometimes I prefer other peoples versions of 'em. And local Mpls Science Fiction/Fantasy writer, Steven Brust. >It's also extremely rare for me to hear men singing in harmony in a >rock or folk song and feel the same kind of shiver up my back that I feel >when I'm listening to women sing in harmony. I know it's perfectly >possible for men to accomplish whatever it is that women do, because >I hear it all the time in choral music. That's true. Something to consider is you don't often hear men harmonizing with each other in music. So often the male singer has no backup singers, or has female backup singers. Or in a group with a buncha guys, unless they're an acapella outfit, it just doesn't happen that often, and doesn't have quite the same impact. >So I guess I'd have to say that the few male groups/singers I've listened to >in the past two years form an extremely short list: Toad the Wet >Sprocket (sp?), The Bobs, and Take 6 (I'm not religious in the least >but I can't stay away from their first album). No need to apologize for liking Take 6, they're very good. And really are the forebears of such popular groups as Boys II Men and all those other guys who try to harmonize in popular music. Take 6 have such a genuine quality, though. Sincerity. Decent songwriting, and so forth. Oh. Ladysmith Black Mambazo is incredible... (saw them in concert several years ago). The Bobs are fun, and I love Toad the Wet Sprocket. babblebabblebabble ..................................................................... Laurel (lakrahn@imho.net) Krahn, Webspinner Virtual Home: http://www.apocalypse.org/pub/u/lakrahn/ Signal-to-Noise: http://www.apocalypse.org/pub/signal-to-noise/ ------------------------------ From: Michael Stevens Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 14:51:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: yes medley, life on mars On 8 Jan 1996, MJM (mjm, just in case) wrote: > OK, 2 things about The Keep. 1) I thought I knew something about YES, > but obviously I know nothing, because none of the songs in this medley > are songs I've ever heard... so, what are they, and on what > albums/compilations? The one I was most pleased to hear covered was "Soon," which isn't really a separate Yes song, but the last movement of "Relayer," the dizzying journey that is the first side of the album of the same name. _Relayer_ featured Patrick Moraz on keyboards instead of Rick Wakeman, and the difference was staggering. On the surface, _Relayer_ is noisier and rowdier than any other Yes material, but if you're brave enough to listen with headphones, you can hear Moraz and Steve Howe trading a leading line that twists and swoops like a dragonfly* through key changes and unusual time signatures. Improvisation within a highly complex framework is one of Moraz's strengths, and _Relayer_ is a dazzling showcase. Oops. Got off topic, didn't I? Um, "Relayer" ends an apocalyptic meltdown and resolves into the blissful calm of "Soon." It's kind of like being inside a huge egg shell, with Jon Anderson's vocals and a single slide-note guitar line providing the interior lighting. Definitely a religious experience for me; looks like Happy likes it, too. :-) On a less reverent note, I once force-fed _Relayer_ through headphones ("Here, you'll like this.") to a 13-year-old thrash-metal freak who was disrupting a D&D party of mine, back in days of yore. Forty minutes later, he wanted to know who these guys were, and why hadn't he heard of them? (He also kept the cassette.) > 2) After reading hundreds of lauders talking about > Life on Mars, I had always assumed it was a cover of the Bowie song (Is > there life on mars?) -- can't say I wasn't a little disappointed to > discover it wasn't. IMHO, the next two candidates for the new song's title would have been 2) "Sleepy Eyes" (Yawn.) 3) "Don't Trust Anyone Over the Age of Five, Unless They're Green and Have Antennae." Number 3 has charm, but I prefer "Life on Mars." :-) We now return you to your regularly scheduled blizzard... - --Michael ................................................................ "Ma-blu-ectric (ma-blu-ectric!) Ma-blu-ectric (ma-blu-ectric!)" Michael Stevens mjs@biostat.mc.duke.edu \ --Cocteau Twins * Yes, that was a reference to the inner-sleeve art. If you have a spare _Relayer_ poster you'd like to give to a good home, please email. :-) ------------------------------ From: lakrahn@imho.net (Laurel Krahn) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 1996 14:20:18 -0600 Subject: Re:male ecto-artists At 06:36 AM 1/8/96 +0000, S. Lunsford & T. O'Reilly wrote: >See? Snow isn't *all* bad, 'cause sometimes your pookie even gets a paid >snow day and the two of you can be disgustingly mushy all day :^). Hmmmm. Yet Sage signed her message "the crampy and crabby one"? I mean, if I had a soulmate to stay home with me in a blizzard.... well, I wouldn't be crabby! ;-p (grinning and ducking) Hmmm. This is too timely. On As the World Turns (yes, I watch a couple of soap operas, I can't help it), their having a plane crash today. Presumably due to a blizzard. Heck, the CBS news update with the blizzard news annoyed me, yet it could be seen as a dramatic embellishment for the show... Hope everyone who got dumped on isn't crashing in planes, but home with warmth and such. (I suppose I could quibble and say that airports on the east coast are closed so...) >re: male artists -- I must admit that I very rarely listen to male >vocalists at all anymore. The biggest reason for that is that it's >extremely rare for the lyrics in a song sung by a man to make me >cry/laugh/sing along/smile/feel inspired. Is that because men pick >different songs to sing, or because they sing differently and it just >doesn't have much of an effect on me...? Not sure. (I deleted the unfortunate Phil Collins reference) Male songwriters who write songs that get to me (and also have interesting/distinctive voices): Peter Gabriel, Richard Thompson, and Lyle Lovett. I had a long list earlier, but those are the three who I most like. Though I confess that Michael Smith, Steve Goodman, Richard Shindell, and Greg Brown also manage such songs. Though sometimes I prefer other peoples versions of 'em. And local Mpls Science Fiction/Fantasy writer, Steven Brust. >It's also extremely rare for me to hear men singing in harmony in a >rock or folk song and feel the same kind of shiver up my back that I feel >when I'm listening to women sing in harmony. I know it's perfectly >possible for men to accomplish whatever it is that women do, because >I hear it all the time in choral music. That's true. Something to consider is you don't often hear men harmonizing with each other in music. So often the male singer has no backup singers, or has female backup singers. Or in a group with a buncha guys, unless they're an acapella outfit, it just doesn't happen that often, and doesn't have quite the same impact. >So I guess I'd have to say that the few male groups/singers I've listened to >in the past two years form an extremely short list: Toad the Wet >Sprocket (sp?), The Bobs, and Take 6 (I'm not religious in the least >but I can't stay away from their first album). No need to apologize for liking Take 6, they're very good. And really are the forebears of such popular groups as Boys II Men and all those other guys who try to harmonize in popular music. Take 6 have such a genuine quality, though. Sincerity. Decent songwriting, and so forth. Oh. Ladysmith Black Mambazo is incredible... (saw them in concert several years ago). The Bobs are fun, and I love Toad the Wet Sprocket. babblebabblebabble ..................................................................... Laurel (lakrahn@imho.net) Krahn, Webspinner Virtual Home: http://www.apocalypse.org/pub/u/lakrahn/ Signal-to-Noise: http://www.apocalypse.org/pub/signal-to-noise/ ------------------------------ From: MJM Date: 08 Jan 96 16:28:56 EST Subject: vernon vs. amos OK. Listen to Nan Vernon on the song Fisherman off Manta Ray and tell me this is not a dead-ringer for Tori Amos. - -mjm ------------------------------ From: Charley.Darbo@harpercollins.com (Charley Darbo) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 15:39:20 -0500 Subject: further musings on my bb Art is the attempt to give language (in the broadest sense of the word) to one's understanding of the universe; this is its link to science. Great Art (like Great Science) is any _successful_ such endeavor. Insofar as the understanding communicated is true, it is beautiful. Each of us must attempt to encompass the universe in our mind, so that we can believe that we have a place in it; thus we are conscious. (This is the folly we commit to label ourselves sane; those who acknowledge the impossibility of this task we call insane. In subtle ways, however, we remind ourselves that this is truly unachievable: _art_ificial.) To encompass the universe, to hold it in our imagination, we must create for ourselves an understanding of it: We must grasp it: We must _grok_ it. (In this sense, we are all artists.) Those of us who feel the need to document this ancient, internal process; to convert it to a form which allows us to offer it to others, either so that they may witness our struggle or so that they may try on our universe to see if it fits; to give it a language; we are the ones who are called -- who call ourselves, at any rate -- artists. For most people, the discovery (let alone the documentation) of real truth in oneself is as difficult as levitation. Thus the rarity of Great Art. Many artists, who understand this innately, are afraid of their own truth. So they go through the motions, they learn and master the techniques, and they declare that they have found their truth; while really they are hiding from it in terror. These artists, who will not allow themselves to embrace the terror that is a part of the fabric of truth, who selfishly refuse to experience anything but comfort, will, paradoxically, never find true comfort: Though they pretend to have achieved their goal, there will never be an end to their struggle, because one can never encompass the whole universe. The only true state of the artist is doubt. Now. This is where it gets subjective. For me, there is no art in Stephen King's work, because there's nothing there I recognize as truth. There _is_ art in Jim Thompson's novels (again, _for me:_ Please assume this in all my pomposities), despite their frequent dismissal as "pulp", because there is recognizable truth in them. In our task of defining our universe, we invent gods, we ignore - -- and then destroy -- any proof that the story we tell ourselves is wrong. Most of us -- really, almost every one of us -- shield ourselves from our truth with some version of untruth. We brick up our unconscious with whatever you want to call it: neuroses, complexes, religion, obsessions, drugs, TV. Artists that cannot break through that, whose art comes not from their truth but from the surface of its protective shell -- the goal of whose art is safety; is reinforcement (support, approval, whatever) of that shell - -- produce art that comforts. Norman Rockwell, Debbie Gibson, Ron Howard, et al, by giving us what seems most familiar are, paradoxically, giving us anything but truth. They are reflecting back at us our mythology, our insulating inventions, which build up like furniture wax and, if we're not careful, cloud our vision of that impossbility; that thing that exists only as an unobtainable goal; that thing that is defined by its absence and destroyed by its capture: the real truth. This is why I celebrate Diamanda. Not because she has answers, but because she seems to be struggling to understand the question. --charleydarbo ------------------------------ From: mp@moonmac.com (Michael Pearce) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 14:39:10 -0800 Subject: Re:dick dale ! writes, >Once again, I come to ye ecto-folk, holders of musical knowledge divers >beyond comprehension, with niggling little queries... > >2). Dick Dale, self-proclaimed King of the Surf guitar, on some PBS >history of Rock thing, appeared to be playing a normally-strung, >right-handed guitar upside down, i.e. with the low strings farthest from >the thumb. Is this for real? Did he always do this? At first it seemed >to make sense, since many of his most famous riffs (Peter Gunn, etc.) are >played on the low E and on the A string, which could fall nicely under >the fingers in that position. But then I'm not sure how you do the >chunka-chunka bits, unless the attack is all on the upstroke. Can anyone >help? Yup, he always has played that way. People were remarking on it way back in 1962 during the Surf Era, when he had a string of #1 songs, like the Beach Boys in their own heyday (well, a short string, anyway). He is self-taught, and maybe nobody told him how to string his guitar until after he had learned to play that way. I am glad to see that he can still produce imaginative music that has a place in 1996. I wonder if the Beach Boys can ever recapture the brilliance they lost about 1968. | Moonlight Mac Services (503) 653-5673 <-> help for new Mackers | | Online support $1/min any problem -- support@moonmac.com | | No Microsoft products were used in the production of this message. | | Interesting rants &such at http://www.teleport.com/~mklprc/ | ------------------------------ From: hyams@alpha.nsula.edu Date: Mon, 08 Jan 1996 16:41:30 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re:RomeoVoid hi, I used to perform some romeo void tunes including "I might like you better if we'd slept together" in a college band in the late 80's. We had a little round female singer like the one from romeo void. I first heard the song on a showtime or cinemax show called rock of the '80's. rock of the 80's came on every week or so... and used I might... as the title song. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ tschuess! {8-> "..music that is ready to eat." DUBMISSIVE 'ZINE collier hyams "..interesting reggae-rock sound."SHANACHIE RECORDS hyams@alpha.nsula.edu "..great feeling for reggae/world music." BANGZINE INTERNATIONAL DUB CORPS album entitled "WONDER WHERE YOU ARE" available from: CMC@1-800-882-4262/BIG EASY DISTRIBUTION@1-800-322-4439/TOWER/BLOCKBUSTER/etc. On Mon, 8 Jan 1996, =?UNKNOWN?Q?H=E5kan_B=E5rman?= wrote: > spike45@sos.sos.net (monroe/fisher) wrote: > ... > >All Romeo Void ---- I didn't have a turntable to play them on for > >years---anyone else ever heard off them? > > I used to have an album with "I might liked you better, if we slept together". > Annoying saxophone :-) on all tracks. Great (female) voice. The record disappeared > when I sold my vinyl. > > That's all I know. > > /H. > ------------------------------ From: f.mcguire1@genie.com Date: Mon, 8 Jan 96 23:19:00 UTC 0000 Subject: Happy on Prism Hi, I'm not trying to nitpick, but Happy's appearance on Prism this week IS of a previously unbroadcast segment. The first time it was broadcast, she played "Feed the Fire" and had a short interview with Helen Leicht. This appearance, she plays "Look for the Child." Sherry ------------------------------ From: 32 flavors and then some Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 18:36:16 -0500 Subject: Re: vernon vs. amos MJM sez: >OK. Listen to Nan Vernon on the song Fisherman off Manta Ray and tell me >this is not a dead-ringer for Tori Amos. one song does not a fair comparison make, though i grant you that she does sing like tori amos on this song. she doesn't have the same, um, oomph that tori has though. just noticed that matthew seligman - bassist extrordinaire - is all over this record. he also played on a couple songs from _little earthquakes_. unfortunately, neither point means that i dislike this album any less that i already do. woj ------------------------------ From: DrDave56@aol.com Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 19:58:16 -0500 Subject: What ever happened to Can anyone give me any information on an Australian group called Martha's Vineyard or their lead vocalist Peggy Van Zalm? As far as I know they only released one CD in America. It was released in 1989 by rooArt and is titled Martha's Vineyard. The only song that got airplay was Old Beach Road. Did she/they do anything else? How can I get it? I haven't heard anyone mention Jann Arden here. Is it because her last release was 1994 or is it because they overplayed Could I Be Your Girl? The title song (Living Under June) is far better as is most of the CD. BTW - as I am new to this group I made a post before I generally knew what Ecto was. Sorry. Would it be inappropriate to ask for a brief explanation of this group so I don't blunder or offend? Thanks for the time, David W. Kesner (no I'm not a doctor - just a nickname) drdave56@aol.com ------------------------------ From: 32 flavors and then some Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 20:25:01 -0500 Subject: Re:male ecto-artists (and snow!) lakrahn@imho.net (Laurel Krahn) sez: >Hmmmm. Yet Sage signed her message "the crampy and crabby one"? I mean, if >I had a soulmate to stay home with me in a blizzard.... well, I wouldn't be >crabby! ;-p (grinning and ducking) especially if your pookie digs your car out of a snow drift for you (nudge nudge). ;) >Hope everyone who got dumped on isn't crashing in planes, but home with >warmth and such. except for the afternoon romp in the snow (which did include serious activity like clearing off the front sidewalk (not that anyone is actually walking around boonton today) and digging out the cars, though not the driveway, but jumping around in the snow and getting stuck in snow drifts was much more fun), it's been a warm dayoff in new jersey. no cocoa cos we're low on milk but tea earl grey hot is a pretty good substitute. :) >Male songwriters who write songs that get to me (and also have >interesting/distinctive voices): Peter Gabriel, Richard Thompson, and Lyle >Lovett. I had a long list earlier, but those are the three who I most like. anyone who thinks that men can't write songs with the emotional impact of, say, tori amos needs to really track down _over_ by peter hammill. his other albums are poignant, but none have the same impact of _over_. as the name implies, it is a break-up album, but it's not smarmy. it's angry, confused, frustrated without being cliched. and hammill's voice is just lovely. robyn hitchcock, for the most part, writes inpenetrable songs, but can still pen a headthwacker when he wants to. check out "glass" on _fegmania!_ or "airscape" on _element of light_ (both albums are good starting points for anyone who has yet to follow the path of robyn). roy harper is also quite a decent lyricist. a good album to start out with is _once_ (which has the added bonus of the title track being a duet with KaTe bush). many of the songs on there are somewhat dated: "the black clouds of islam" still carries some weight courtesy of hamas and the irani president, but "berliners" is tied to a pretty specific point in time. nonetheless, "berliners" is probably one of the most powerful songs i've ever come across. hmmm. recently, ingrid karklins mentioned on her mailing list that she needs men around her to funnel and focus her energies. that's a paraphrase (maybe neal, neile, meth or suzanne can help out my memory), but the general gist is there. i think tori amos has said something similar as well. i found ingrid's an intriguing comment, as all too often, as we know, music by men is testosterone-driven tripe. on the other hand, although it seems like there is more interesting stuff being produced by women, a lot of music by women is estrogen-poisoned pabullum. i guess a lot of us look through the world through venus- shaped glasses because of the focus of ecto. ho, i forgot to include david sylvian/japan and tom dolby in my men list. there are more, i'm sure, but i'll think of them later. woj ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V2 #337 ************************** ======================================================================== Please send any questions or comments about the list to ecto-owner@nsmx.rutgers.edu