From: owner-ecto-digest To: ecto-digest@ns2.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto-digest V2 #218 Reply-To: ecto@nsmx.rutgers.edu Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Sunday, 10 September 1995 Volume 02 : Number 218 The Ecto digest is now being generated automatically. Please send problems and questions to: ecto-owner@nsmx.rutgers.edu. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Eric Brown" Date: Sun, 10 Sep 1995 00:34:48 +0000 Subject: Re: random blatherings > On Sep 07, 1995 14:07:18, 'Richard Holmes ' wrote: > > Jane's lyrics never really impressed me. The meanings are nice, but I'm not > fond of the way she uses words; too repetitive. Like in Love Is Everything; > she says "Maybe it was to" like 50 times. Heh. Every time I listen to Sail Across The Water, I'm always tempted to add "Are we not.... Men?" towards the end of the chorus. (Yes, I'm a Devophile AND an Ectophile in one -- go figure.) Incidentally, it took me about 6 listens to WIWAB before I finally started to like it; somehow or another, All The Candles In The World just crept into my brain and I realized just how incredible that one song was, and then I went back to the entire album with a whole new view. On a somewhat related topic, songs that always make me cry are Moments of Pleasure from _The Sensual World_ (something about the line 'Every old sock deserves an old shoe' really gets to me), and Aimee Mann's Mr Harris from _Whatever_. Eric ------------------------------ From: Michael Matthews Date: Sun, 10 Sep 1995 03:30:02 -0400 Subject: Today's your birthday, friend... i*i*i*i*i*i i*i*i*i*i*i *************** *****HAPPY********* **************BIRTHDAY********* *************************************************** *************************************************************************** ****************** Holly Tominack (HOLLY@UMBC2.UMBC.EDU) ****************** *************************************************************************** -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Holly Tominack Thu September 10 1970 Virgo Troy Wollenslegel Mon September 18 1972 Virgo Joe Zitt Sat September 20 1958 Will Hack for CDs Dan Riley Sun October 08 1961 Libra Neile Graham Wed October 08 1958 pen Quenby M. Chunco Tue October 08 1968 Crunchy Frog Mike Garland Wed October 08 1952 Creature_of_the_Night Michael C. Berch Wed October 10 1956 No parking - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ From: ariel_b@pipeline.com (Ariel Brennan) Date: Sun, 10 Sep 1995 04:21:22 -0400 Subject: Re: random blatherings On Sep 10, 1995 00:34:48, '"Eric Brown" ' wrote: >Heh. Every time I listen to Sail Across The Water, I'm always tempted to add >"Are we not.... Men?" towards the end of the chorus. >(Yes, I'm a Devophile AND an Ectophile in one -- go figure.) Well, see, that's the kind of thing I'm talking about. The repitition really annoys me. :) There's just so MUCH of it. And the line from "Love Is Everything", "You're chickening out, aren't you?" annoys me to no end, always has. >Incidentally, it took me about 6 listens to WIWAB before I finally started to >like it; somehow or another, All The Candles In The World just crept into my >brain and I realized just how incredible that one song was, and then I went >back to the entire album with a whole new view. Funny, that's exactly what happened to me. Yes, with me too, it was "All The Candles In The World" that got me, and it totally changed my view on the entire album. I still don't listen to anything after "Candles" or, on a good day, "Sweet Incarnadine". But "Incarnadine" gets to me, just for that one line, "The first time I leaned over you and looked into your eyes, I said to myself, "This is what it must be like to have everything you'd ever want." So I can't listen to that song much; it depresses me. :> >On a somewhat related topic, songs that always make me cry are Moments of >Pleasure from _The Sensual World_ (something about the line 'Every old sock >deserves an old shoe' really gets to me), and Aimee Mann's Mr Harris from >_Whatever_. Hmmm.... no song always makes me cry. Ones that do sometimes, depending on my mood, are many in number. Mostly, however, it'd be, Melissa Ferrick's "When You Left", KT's "This Woman's Work", Tori's "Baker Baker", "Bells For Her" and "Tear In Your Hand", Jewel's "Foolish Games", and, finally, The Cranberries, "Ode To My Family." Incidentally, not to self-plug or anything, but ectophiles might want to look into my review column on rec.music.reviews. It's called "Nightshades" and I'm working on #4 right now. I cover mostly lyrics, since I'm a horrible critic of actual MUSIC, and so far, only female artists. Lemme see, I've done... Alanis Morissette, Ani DiFranco, Melissa Ferrick, Jewel, Happy Rhodes, Sarah Brightman, and Sarah McLachlan. I think that's it. But I'm always looking for opinions, so... - -Ariel ------------------------------ From: gtp10@cus.cam.ac.uk (Dr G.T. Parks) Date: Sun, 10 Sep 95 10:52 BST Subject: UK TV Licenses Vickie asked about the rules w.r.t. TV licenses in the UK... Here are the facts: There two types of TV license - colour licenses and black & white licenses. The former cost about #80 a year, the latter about #30 a year - I can't remember the exact figures. As their names imply, you need a colour license if you have a colour TV, a B&W license if you only have a B&W TV (pretty rare these days). You only need one license per household, no matter how many TV's you actually own. The revenue from the license fee is what funds the BBC. Geoff Parks ------------------------------ From: awphili@xs4all.nl Date: Sun, 10 Sep 95 11:52:03 Subject: Re: Lingquiztics Steve wrote: > > > Albert poses ... > > > > > > > > I have another problem for you all. I sometimes hear things like > > > > "I would to ". What does that mean? As far as I can figure > > > > out, sometimes it means doing causes , and at other times > > > > it means causes . > > > > > > > > Examples: > > > > > > > > I would like to have a banana. > > > > > > > > I would look at my watch to know the time. > > "To have" and "to know" in these sentences are both examples of > infinitive verbs. An infinitive verb is one that is not > inflected for person or number, and therefore represents an > action in a nonspecific context. The first sentence could be > interpreted as "I would like "; > the second as "I would look at my watch knowing the time>". [Rest of excellent essay deleted] Thanks, that cleared things up for me a lot, although it was something I already knew in the back of my mind. Something must have gotten me confused. 8-) Albert \\xx -- * /~\__-:+-|=-@$$$-< ------------------------------ From: awphili@xs4all.nl Date: Sun, 10 Sep 95 12:47:03 Subject: A day at home Hi! I am back again at my computer after two weeks. Very nice! :) I tried reading the latest Ecto digest (#217), and was very pleasantly surprised to see the discussion about music of the future progressing nicely even without me watching it. Keep up the good work. :) Maybe I'll try reading another one. Or maybe not, as I do not have that much time right now. *HUGS* to all, Albert \\xx -- * /~\__-:+-|=-@$$$-< ------------------------------ From: jwaite@popmail.ucsd.edu (Jerene Waite) Date: Sun, 10 Sep 1995 10:14:37 -0700 Subject: Repetition again > >>Ariel said: >> >>>Jane's lyrics never really impressed me. The meanings are nice, but I'm >not >>>fond of the way she uses words; too repetitive. Like in Love Is >Everything; >>>she says "Maybe it was to" like 50 times. >> . . . Maybe it was to answer the question "Why?", which, in times of the dissolution of a love relationship, is asked so many more than 50 times. The lyrics of this song pierced me when I first heard it, because I was right there in that place at that time. And the ending lyrics helped me see things in a wiser perspective . . .brought me back to my center, soothed. I appreciated intimately every reason, every "Maybe it was . . ." because my life at the time filled in the meanings behind each cogently shaped phrase. (Except maybe the cowboy's ways--that one phrase always seemed out of place--flawed the song a bit for me--but then only goddess creates perfection, so even the flaw was required? (-::-) - --Jerene ------------------------------ From: Ulrich Grepel Date: Sat, 9 Sep 95 12:05:09 +0200 Subject: Re: ATTN: UK question (TV liscenses?) Hi Vickie! > So here I am...trying hard not to go back to packing and having a good > conversation on #ecto and watching TV Nation on the telly is nicely > doing the trick. > > Well...TV Nation (A *WONDERFUL* SHOW) did a piece about how absurd it > is that folks in the UK have to have a liscense to have televisions > in their homes. Could someone post the "rules" of this law? Do you > have to have a liscence for every TV in the house? How much do the > liscenses cost? Do computer monitors that double as a TV count? Well, it's not very different in Germany. We have to pay about DM 23 (don't hit me if I'm wrong here) (DM 23 ~ $16) per month for radio and TV. (Radio alone is cheaper, TV alone doesn't exist.) This money is financing the non-private radio & TV stations ARD, ZDF and various other small ones. Rules are as following: - - every household owning a TV has to pay once. - - if you're grown-up but still living with your parents and if you earn your own money (that is, you're out of school, high-school, university etc.), you have to pay as well. - - if you do have a radio in the office, you're at least supposed to pay again. - - if you've got a radio in a car that belongs to your company and not to yourself (even if you're driving it all the time), you've got to pay again. (I don't know whether radio in office + radio in car == 1 radio.) - - it doesn't help to say "I don't watch ARD/ZDF/...". It doesn't even help to cripple your TV/radio so that it technically cannot receive these channels. - - computer with TV receiver == TV - - video recorder with tuner and monitor == TV - - 2TV == 1TV - - radio + TV == TV - - satellite receiver + VCR-without-tuner == TV > It's all so bizarre! (and yeah...we pay for cable but that's different) Ummm... we're paying for cable as well. About the same again. Bye, Uli - -- "Ein 32-Bit-Betriebssystem fuer uns?" - "Wozu? Wir haben doch zwei mit 16." [IBM ad promoting OS/2] "Bah, ich habe 4 mit 8!" [comment from Sven Wachter] ------------------------------ From: "Joanna M. Phillips" Date: Sun, 10 Sep 1995 14:48:20 -0400 Subject: Re: IRC... At 02:03 PM 9/8/95 -0500, you wrote: >might i suggest that any time someone from ecto is on the IRC, they create >an #ecto room if there isn't already one? then go about your business on >indigo-girls or whatever channel you hang out on. that way, other ecto >people who are on will know if someone else is on. we also might wanna put >each other's nick's in a notify file, if you can... it's been ages since >i've seen many ecto people and i haven't many NICK's in my notify file these >days. (snip) >(btw my NICK is sethra for all you irc people out there) >Laurel (lakrahn@imho.net) Krahn, Webspinner >Virtual Home: http://imho.net/~lakrahn/index.html >IMHO Productions: Internet Consulting, Training, & Web Design Good idea . If you see a ctrymouse that's me :) - -jo- - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Joanna M. Phillips | "There are two ways of spreading light: fleur@one.net | to be the candle fleur@genie.com | or the mirror that reflects it." --Edith Wharton ------------------------------ From: mfgr@bart.nl (Marcel Rijs) Date: Sun, 10 Sep 1995 21:07:08 -0100 Subject: Milla: Acoustic Gentlemen Mystery Hi, This weekend I spent a few hours in Rotterdam, shopping at the record stores there. In one of those shops I found, among other things, the CD "Loaded, volume 1" from EMI records. One of the tracks is Milla's "Gentlemen who fell" in a special 'acoustic' version, played mainly with piano. It is IMO a beautiful version - it sent shivers up and down my spine, to use a corny term. I am, however, wondering where this track came from. I do have the UK CD-single with acoustic versions of Clock & Did it all before, and it could be possible this track came from that very same session at "The Garden". Does anyone know? And is there more where this stuff came from? I also saw "You oughtta know" from miss Morissette at the otherwise very uninteresting MTV-America Award show, and had to admit she did a very powerful appearance there. I do get the feeling she is one of those artists with little originality and lots of rock cliches. Correct me if I'm wrong. I am still wondering if I should buy the CDsingle... Oh, and for those interested: freedom of speech has yet again been violated on the Internet. Dutch provider xs4all has been invaded by those nice Scientology people. Money money money, always sunny in a rich man's world... Marcel F G Rijs "Conan the librarian" CAN NOW BE REACHED AT: mfgr@bart.nl and 100276.2176@compuserve.com ****************************************************************************** "Tori Amos Covered" -- e-mail now to order! "Kate Bush Covered" -- e-mail now to participate! ------------------------------ From: Yngve Hauge Date: Sun, 10 Sep 1995 21:07:13 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: Somewhat info and somwhat review I Hi you all ......... I've bought so much CDs the time I've been away that it is impossible to write reviews on them all. But some of them are so important to me that I want to mention them. I'll mainly concentrate on artists/groups I don't think are known to most of the Ectophiles. Last year I went to some concerts at the Quart Festival in Kristiansand where my family's summer house is (and also where my grandparents live and where I was born). I had looked forward to this event cause of one single band called Velvet Belly. I had read some nice reviews in norwegian magazines about them. So when I saw that they were going to play at this festival I decided to try them out :) A couple of weeks later I had bought their first release Colours quickly followed by their last one Window Tree. The latter has an incredible cover - a picture of a tree taken through a window. BUT it is only the first release which got this cover. BMG changed it to a aweful picture of the band when they rereleased the album after VB had signed to them. The first release and the two first albums are on the norwegian sort of indie-label dBut. So you should try to get the first one. The address to dBut is - dBUT recordings Box 9415 Vaalerenga 0610 Oslo Norway Tel: (+ 47) 22 17 62 15 Fax: (+ 47) 22 17 62 25 email: pepedbut@oslonett.no The members of the group are : Anne Marie Almedal - vocals, metrodome Tor Henning Sundgot - Guitars, e-bow Paal Aanensen - Bass, percussion Kai Rune Rasmussen - Drums, percussion, piano Contact address: Velvet Belly Smaaslettene 60 4740 Tveit Norway For the info - Tveit is located just outside Kristiansand. It is not easy to reach all the band-members at one time cause they are studying all over the country and abroad (Anne Marie is in The Netherlands) (aa = an 'a' with a dot above - like in bjoerk but with a single dot :) If I was going to describe their sound I would say it is much like Cocteau Twins with a dash of Cranes and Mazzy Star. The vocals are very important and Anne Marie got a voice that really fits the music. My favorite album of their is probably their first which I'm listening to at the moment as well. It got kinda a raw and unfinished sound that makes the music alive. It was recorded during a few sessions as well so they sort of didn't have the time to experiment very much with the sound. The second album 'Little Lies' however is a lot more finished and experimental. The sound is softer which is both good and not so good (IMHO). I won't try to describe their last album cause it has slipped through my hands twice now - once to Alvin and the other one to Tracy. And now I got to try to track down one of the releases from dBut (I don't want to have the BMG one). I highly recommend all their albums though. I was shocked when I saw them in concert at the same festival this year - they were so incredible much better than the last time. This time Lisa Germano played at the same concert and I saw the light :) This woman is just so incredible. Velvet Belly and her together just was an unique mix. The VB makes the audience just stay there moving without a noise. They just let the music run through their bodies. no need to feedback to the stage. Seems like the reviewer in the local newspaper meant the same as I do :) LG, however, sort of needs feedback. And she really got it. She did an incredible set - a mix between old and new stuff. Her new album is highly recommended btw. It is really sad and depressive but the story she tells throughout the album is so lively. Compared to her Happiness she is back doing everything herself except for some of the tracks where she gets help from a couple of people. I just love the album!! This is going to take longer time than I expected :) Bye for now, Yngve ------------------------------ From: BOUTAME@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu Date: Sun, 10 Sep 95 16:30:33 EDT Subject: Boxing Ghandis, Ani Difranco Hi, Didn't someone around here mention a group called Boxing Ghandis? They're doing a free show at Toad's in New Haven and I was wondering if I should go see them. What/who are they like? Also, if anyone is interested in seeing Ani Difranco at Southern Connecticut State University in New Haven, you can call the box office of the place she's playing at (203)392-6154, or you can go to the box office, or you can go to Golden Thread Booksellers at 915 State Street in New Haven (203)777-7807. I went there and got a whole gob of tickets and the woman there said they were concerned about selling enough tickets. I told her it probably wouldn't be a problem. The Flirtations are opening. Oh yeah, it's on September 29 at 8:00. Time to go.... --Tamar ------------------------------ From: Richard Holmes Date: Sun, 10 Sep 95 16:28:31 -0700 Subject: Re: random blatherings Eric Brown writes: >> On Sep 07, 1995 14:07:18, 'Richard Holmes ' >>wrote: >> >> Jane's lyrics never really impressed me. The meanings are nice, but >>I'm not >> fond of the way she uses words; too repetitive. Like in Love Is >>Everything; >> she says "Maybe it was to" like 50 times. *** WAIT *** I wrote no such thing.... I am impressed by jane's lyrics, though I must admit I usually listen to them with music, and don't read them by themselves, like poetry.... However, the lyrics for WIWAB (which I read on her web page) WERE a deciding factor (as were favorable ecto comments) in choosing her CD at the store (I'd never heard her before I bought it). The comment you quote was probably something I responded to, or was a response to something I wrote, 'cuz I was talking about lyrics, fish, and the meaning of life.... - -Richard. ------------------------------ From: Richard Holmes Date: Sun, 10 Sep 95 17:33:52 -0700 Subject: Re: Repetition again Jerene said: >> >>>Ariel said: >>> >>>>Jane's lyrics never really impressed me. The meanings are nice, but >>I'm >>not >>>>fond of the way she uses words; too repetitive. Like in Love Is >>Everything; >>>>she says "Maybe it was to" like 50 times. >>> > > . . . Maybe it was to answer the question "Why?", which, in times of >the dissolution of a love relationship, is asked so many more than 50 >times. The lyrics of this song pierced me when I first heard it, >because I was right there in that place at that time. And the ending >lyrics helped me see things in a wiser perspective . . .brought me >back to my center, soothed. I appreciated intimately every reason, >every "Maybe it was . . ." because my life at the time filled in the >meanings behind each cogently shaped phrase. (Except maybe the >cowboy's ways--that one phrase always seemed out of place--flawed the >song a bit for me--but then only goddess creates perfection, so even >the flaw was required? (-::-) > >--Jerene Well, I think this just illustrates that one must be open to the connection for something to connect... either at the similar place emotionally / spiritually, or able to recall (or forecall?) that place... There are connections which I've felt via music, although I've never been "in" that spot before.... but drawing up from a collage of my experiences, and those of others (not really consciously) may have somehow made the connection... With respect to flaws... yes, some times a part of a song *seems* like a flaw, but taken in another light, maybe not.... quoting: maybe it was to learn how to fight maybe it was for the lesson in pride maybe it was the cowboy's ways maybe it was to learn how to cry ... That one line can be taken many ways... who is the cowboy, for one? Only Jane knows for sure (or not)... sometimes when I create things, they come from sources I know not where, and I don't always know why, except that they evoke a feeling. So, it may be flawed *for you*, during the past listenings you've had... (there's lots of songs I know where I kinda say "huh?" and I think this may be what you mean when you say "flawed"... and *YES* for me, too, this is one of them... although it hadn't really stood out as much 'til you mentioned it!). WRT perfection, this is one of those eternal questions, not graspable by mere mortals in their normal state... I might ask and / or postulate: * perhaps the goddess creates "perfectly placed flaws", such that their placement illuminates perfection, here or elswhere. * If the goddess only creates perfection, then who/what creates the flaws? And who creates hatred and violence? This is something I have gone to great lengths to try to understand, and I'm still at a loss. What is the cause of hatred and bloodshed, intolerance and bigotry? Is it just us people being "sinful" as some would believe? Is it a manifestation of evil, a Christian "Devil" of sorts? How much control do the individuals perpetrating evil have over the evil they do? How is evil defined... and how did we as a species ever get into the state that we feel we must kill each other to make forward progress? Certainly, in our present state, there is often a need to trade a smaller violence to prevent a larger one... is this just the nature of existance, or are we skewing our collective views such that such tradeoffs seem the only alternative? I just read an interesting perspective on the roots of violence (among other things), in Sherri S. Tepper's "Raising the Stones", a novel. I'm still wondering... * Or does the goddess create (and / or put interesting spins on) a sort of "divine chaos", in order that all perfection and all flaw are at once manifest, since if all we had were perfection, why would be be here, trying as we do to seek betterment of our condition, and learning what we need to know... in other words, would it be an ecstatic experience if that was what state we were in all the time? Does the goddess give us hints at how to shape our chaos, such that we may evolve, rather than simply leading us through it, and have us not remember our way? If we shape chaos towards perfection, are we manifesting or becoming goddes/god/whatever? Is it enough to always keep an open mind, and keep searching? Well, I don't want you to think I'm picking on you by asking these things, it is just something that you wrote caused my fingers to start creating chaos... =8^) - -Richard ------------------------------ From: THE OLIVE-LOAF VIGILANTE Date: Sun, 10 Sep 1995 21:35:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: sarah info and concert news Hi! A quick musical rundown of the past few days: - -- Thursday night woj, Mike Curry and I saw Suddenly, Tammy! play another great set at Cafe Sin-e in NYC. We had to endure a thoroughly awful band beforehand -- I think their name was Tor-in-4 or something like that. They were four poseurs who weren't bad musicians and played marginally interesting funk-fusion-whatever music, but the songs just went on and on and on and on, and the vocalist and the lyrics he spoke were just annoying (the first line of their first song was a slam against Tori Amos, and it went downhill from there). I escaped to the used bookstore across the street, while woj and Mike preserved our incredible table, which was located about 10 inches away from the end of Beth's piano once she got set up. :) What can I say -- S,T! are an incredibly fun band. As musicians they're not going to win any virtuosity awards and there are several better lyricists out there, but it's just impossible to sit still when listening to their music, especially when it's being performed less than a foot in front of you. If you hear that they're playing anywhere within reach, don't miss it. They're really nice people too, and it's fun to talk to them while they're setting up. - -- Also on Thursday night, Sarah McLachlan did an in-studio concert exclusively for WNEW in New York, which was broadcast live. Good thing we have a timer on our stereo. :> She had just Ash and Brian with her, who played on the first three songs, then she did the rest of the set alone at the piano. In between mini-sets the DJ in charge, obviously an informed fan, interviewed her about what she's been up to lately and what she's going to be up to in the near future. And, there were no commercial breaks! I was stunned. Anyway, a few tidbits: - It seems she'll never be asked to sing the Canadian national anthem again: she changed the line "God save our land" to "love save our land" at that Canucks game, and pissed a lot of people off. :) - "I Will Remember You", the song from the movie _The Brothers McMullen_ will be released as a single soon (it's already been released to radio), and she shot a video for it in Central Park on Friday, since she was in town anyway. Look for it on the usual video outlets in a month or so. - Seeing as she was going to be in Central Park anyway, she opened for Annie Lennox on Friday evening. Unfortunately it was too early for me to be able to make it, and I guess you needed to get some free pass thingies from somewhere in order to get in -- did anybody go to this? More importantly, did anyone tape it? ;> She performed: Plenty The Path of Thorns (terms) Ice Cream I Will Remember You Good Enough Mary Hold On Fall From Grace (I think that's what she called it this time :) I think that's it. Our tape came out great -- I'll be sending a copy of it to the Tape Dubbing Project soon (okay, Doug?). One other Sarah-related note: in the latest issue of B-Side magazine (with David Bowie, of all people on the cover) features the annual "Bias Awards", in which the entire staff contributes a bunch of tongue-in-cheek and bitchy awards for events of the past year. There are a few really funny ones and a couple that kind of bug me, but the best one has to be "The Energizer Bunny Keeps Going And Going And Going Award -- To Sarah McLachlan. Will this woman *ever* stop touring? She's given the phrase life on the road a whole new meaning." ;> In other concert news, tickets for Natalie Merchant at the Beacon Theater in NYC on October 9 and 10 go on sale tomorrow. Remember, go to the box office to avoid Ticketslime! And tickets for Jane Siberry at the Iron Horse in Northampton, MA on October 19 and 20 are already on sale -- call 1-800-THE-TICK (*not* Ticketslime :). There will be a bunch of us ectophiles there on Saturday the 20th. Whoa, this preamble got long... replies in the next post I think. +===========================================================================+ |Meredith Tarr meth@delphi.com| |Boonton, NJ USA http://remus.rutgers.edu/~woj/methpg.html| +===========================================================================+ | "Warum hast du gestupid driven?!?" -- woj | +===========================================================================+ ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V2 #218 ************************** ======================================================================== Please send any questions or comments about the list to ecto-owner@nsmx.rutgers.edu