From: owner-ecto-digest To: ecto-digest@ns2.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto-digest V2 #192 Reply-To: ecto@nsmx.rutgers.edu Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Tuesday, 15 August 1995 Volume 02 : Number 192 The Ecto digest is now being generated automatically. Please send problems and questions to: ecto-owner@nsmx.rutgers.edu. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: geek the boy Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 17:51:25 -0400 Subject: harmony ridge folks, just stumbled across a new web page devoted to women in music. it's called harmony ridge (http://www.rahul.net/hrmusic/). there is a link to the neil's ecto page, but no link to footah's ecto archives (or to the garden, grrr). it seems to be very new as there are many artists listed without links. the categorization seems kinda hokey (melissa ferrick is folk? suzie katz is blues? huh?), but the list of women is pretty impressive - quite a few on there that i have never heard of. seems like a promising possibility. woj ------------------------------ From: elionwyr@onix.com Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 20:20:30 +0500 Subject: To: ecto@ns2.Rutgers.EDU Re: EWS Strikes Again! Bahahahahahahahahahhahahaha! Too good! :) Re: Alanis Morissette I haven't seen this mentioned yet, so if it was..OOOOPS!..but she's playing here in Philly at the TLA on South Street Thursday night. (I hear that it's already sold out, but it can't hurt calling if you're interested, cuz you just never know..) RI> THIS IS NOT REAL... RI> RI> ...but it could have been. I could have died the other day of RI> heat stroke. I'm glad you're ok, Vickie! :( (hug) My chinchilla did suffer from heat stroke right at the end of that heat wave..it's a very scary thing to witness. (Fortunately, she's ok..it was just terrifying to have had happen.) (I never thought I'd say this, but thank goodness for air conditioning!) Re: having music stuck in your hands I usually get the really goofy, bad, kid-song sort of things stuck..like "if you're happy and you know it.." Things that are guaranteed to drive you quickly insane. (sigh!) ------------------------------ From: Jason and the tiny curly girl Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 20:48:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: your mail (fwd) > > Re: Alanis Morissette > I haven't seen this mentioned yet, so if it was..OOOOPS!..but she's > playing here in Philly at the TLA on South Street Thursday night. (I > hear that it's already sold out, but it can't hurt calling if you're > interested, cuz you just never know..) > Sold out in 20 minutes. Get the feeling they weren't expecting this big a hit when they put the tour together? btw, Suddenly Tammy's scheduled a last minute concert at Tin Angel in Philadelphia on 8/18--the place is the size and shape of a shoe box, over the restraunt Serrano's. Dinner at Serrano's gets you reserved seating for the concert...guess where my wife and I are eating that night? Jason - -------- If your poor fragile ego can't handle anything in this message please, add a :) to the offending sentence if that helps your self-esteem. - -------- for subscription info to the following lists: elastica, alanis morissette, lisa germano, paula cole, gustav mahler, roxy music, big-east, university of miami, and beginning attorneys: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/jnjlist.html - -------- mahler web page: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/mahler echo and the bunnyment web page: http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/echo.html Jason & Jill Greshes-Philadelphia,PA-jgreshes@netaxs.com-jgreshes@dfw.net http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes ------------------------------ From: Paul Cohen Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 22:10:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Gentle Giant-R Lovejoy >ps: anyone out there into CARAVAN, >British soft rock from the 70's. I'm the only one I know(?)[deeplevel >soliptic systat] around here that has. To which R.Lovejoy quips (doesn't surprise me one bit): >I'll counter by asking: HATFIELD & THE NORTH anybody? Yup. I'm into Caravan. Though I'm really against calling them "soft rock". They were a progressive rock band, and one of the best. They had a mellow vocal style, like many of the progressive bands of the era. But they are the band I remember most fondly from the very productive Canterbury scene (along with Gong, Hatfield & the North, Egg, Soft Machine, Kevin Ayers, Quiet Sun and National Health). And also Camel, who weren't from Canterbury, but sounded like they were. But Gentle Giant were the Best. My turn: GRYPHON anybody? ------------------------------ From: jsutton@rahul.net (Jack Sutton) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 20:23:28 -0700 Subject: Re: harmony ridge >folks, just stumbled across a new web page devoted to women in music. >it's called harmony ridge (http://www.rahul.net/hrmusic/). there is a >link to the neil's ecto page, but no link to footah's ecto archives (or >to the garden, grrr). it seems to be very new as there are many artists >listed without links. the categorization seems kinda hokey (melissa >ferrick is folk? suzie katz is blues? huh?), but the list of women is >pretty impressive - quite a few on there that i have never heard of. >seems like a promising possibility. > >woj Yes, the page is new, I've had it on line for a short time, and as you mentioned its fairly incomplete, but I hope it to be a interesting, useful resource as it grows. I'll add a link to footah's ecto archives and any other links or artists people feel should be included. . What's to the garden? I have many more artists to add, but the workload is out pacing the resources at the present time. The bulk of my effort currently is going to independent artists, and artists on small labels. hokey! Whadda ya mean? OK Suzie Katz may be a bit of a stretch. Basically, I'm not real thrilled in categorizing to begin with, but due to lack of innovation on my part, I feel compelled to use categories until something more accurate surfaces. Until then many artists will be listed in more than one category. Melissa Ferrick, is a good example, just an oversight that she's only listed in folk. Why folk? She reminded me somewhat of Ani DiFranco, and everybody knows Ani is a folk singer ;> . Jack Sutton ------------------------------ From: FoghornJ@aol.com Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 00:11:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Gentle Giant-R Lovejoy Is ecto becoming The Rotter's Club? Did (Big) John Wayne really Sock Psychology in the Jaw? Ah, them's were the days, Gentle Giant, Caravan, Hatfield and the North. I know them all. Some I have on CD, some just on vinyl but they're old faves. Never got to know much of Family. I too am stumped by Strunz and Farah (sic). Here's some more: NATIONAL HEALTH CAMEL EGG ESPERANTO HENRY COW GRYPHON Gryphon was mentioned here before... I know, I dropped the name! Didn't see any responses (although I might have missed it, I admit to having to skip some of these messages...) Most Yes fans who saw the Tales of T.Oceans tour saw Gryphon as the opening act. That's where I first heard them. And CDs have recently been spotted (and obtained!) fog ------------------------------ From: klaus@inphobos.wupper.de Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 21:44:44 CET-1 Subject: Rainbirds - Update Meredith wrote about Rainbirds: > They are a truly great band from Germany -- Katharina Franck is the founding > (and only remaining original) member. Right now it's her and Ulrike Haag, Maybe it's about time to update this information. Rainbirds today are Katharina Franck, Ulrike Haage and Tim Lorenz (drums). They have signed to a new record label "Our Choice", are to release a new single this year and a new album in February '96. They'll soon start a club tour through Germany of which we hope to see two or three concerts. :-P :) Cheers, Klaus _____ Klaus "Cosmic Vagabond" Kluge --*-- klaus@inphobos.wupper.de "I look around and try to turn the darkness in my eyes to light" BoBo in White Wooden Houses ------------------------------ From: Paul Cohen Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 01:24:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Gentle Giant-R Lovejoy >Never got to know much of Family. I too am stumped by Strunz and Farah (sic). First few albums are essential and the first album (Music from a Doll's House) is an all time psychedelic classic. >Here's some more: >NATIONAL HEALTH The mutated Hatfield & the North. Less whimsical and a little more jazzy, but no less wonderful. >CAMEL Ah Camel. My _Favorite_Band_ during the 70's. I just finally snatched up their first album on CD, it was always one of my favorites. The band just wasn't the same after Peter Bardens left. But for five or six albums, they were wonderful. >EGG The Canterbury scene's Nice. There's magic in anything Dave Stewart is involved with. Egg predates most of the other bands here, they were really part of the first wave of progressive bands, along with Van der Graaf Generator, King Crimson and Yes (ie, bands who started in 1968-69). You might throw Genesis in there, but they didn't really get their progressive feet wet until 1970. >ESPERANTO I never really threw these guys in with this crowd. They were interesting and I do have the albums, but they weren't top shelf. >HENRY COW Oh if I could only get past Dagmar's vocals. >GRYPHON > >Gryphon was mentioned here before... I know, I dropped the name! >Didn't see any responses (although I might have missed it, I admit to having >to >skip some of these messages...) Most Yes fans who saw the Tales of T.Oceans >tour saw Gryphon as the opening act. That's where I first heard them. And CDs >have recently been spotted (and obtained!) Well, there goes one challenge. Gryphon were marvelous. And unique. How many bands do you know of with a lead bassoon. Their final album, Treason, always controversial in its day for being so electric, has been recently issued on import CD and is wonderful. Oh well, gotta dig up a new challange. Maybe a smigeon deeper. PULSAR, anyone? ------------------------------ From: geek the boy Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 07:21:52 -0400 Subject: Re: harmony ridge you know, i had a strong suspicion that someone on ecto was involved in this! :) jsutton@rahul.net (Jack Sutton) sez: >Yes, the page is new, I've had it on line for a short time, and as you >mentioned its fairly incomplete, but I hope it to be a interesting, useful >resource as it grows. i think it will be. a yahoo for ecto. >What's to the garden? _the garden_ is a huge compedium of KaTe bush interviews and other information. it was written by ied and i've been working on putting it up on the web. like harmony ridge, it's still coming along, but a large portion is available at http://remus.rutgers.edu/~woj/garden/. >I have many more artists to add, but the workload is out pacing the >resources at the present time. sounds familiar! >Basically, >I'm not real thrilled in categorizing to begin with, but due to lack of >innovation on my part, I feel compelled to use categories until something >more accurate surfaces. why not just list them all alphabetically with little icons (with alt attributes) after their names indicating the kind of music they play? that way, someone looking for a specific artists doesn't have to play guessing games with how they were categorized and someone looking for specific genres can follow the icons. maybe have a secondary index that lists by category for those who want to browse that way. woj ------------------------------ From: rzeisern@colybrand.com (Rob Zeiser -- HRA - Dallas ) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 95 13:00:17 EDT Subject: [none] To: ECTO, Digest Irvin griped (appropriately): >... and the horrid wedding i had to undergo, where everyone else >got to bring their dates, except for me (since the bride who >invited me KNOWS i am gay and have a significant other). don't get >me started... Miss Manners would have been appalled! Weddings are such unendurable events anyway, dear. What ever possessed you to go? I hope you got your lover to sign the card. Perhaps that would clue the newlyweds in to their bad manners! ------------------------------ From: VNozick@tribune.com Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 11:45:33 -0700 Subject: What happened to... The most incredible thunderstorm is raging outside my work window right now. I'm on the 15th floor of the Tribune Tower, and it went from bright sunlight to black within 15 minutes...needless to say, absolutely no work is getting done right now. On to an ectopic: Anyone know what happened to Helen Terry (former backup singer to Culture Club)? I know she released some solo stuff. The thought came up because Boy George is signing autographs next month at a book store in town, and I got to thinking of that era. Other '80s what happened tos: Spandau Ballet...the new Tears For Fears album...Dale Bozzio... ------------------------------ From: Jeffrey Hanson Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 10:34:16 -0700 Subject: Re: What happened to... Can't help with Helen Terry, but Dale Bozzio was touring around California with a new incarnation of Missing Persons (No Terry Bozzio or Warren Cuccurolo or any of the other members). She had cleaned up her act quite a bit, given up smoking, drinking and drugs, and trying to even give up sugar. Quite a change. They put ona surprisingly rocking show. The new drummer is quite good. Dale had also cut her hair quite short--still platinum blonde though. She looks kind of like a blonde Liza Minelli now. They didn't play any new material--just old songs and a couple off of Dale's solo album (Riot in English). Guess she's basically just your typical housewife now with two kinds. They toured around quite a bit last summer, but haven't heard anything about them lately. Here's another what ever happened to...Martha Davis. She had written a musical that played here in San Diego last summer, and she played a couple of shows with a new band. She was supposedly supposed to have an album out-- anyone hear what happened to it? And Terri Nunn--any hope of another solo or Berlin album? Jeff Hanson ------------------------------ From: "Mitchell A. Pravatiner" Date: Tue, 15 Aug 95 14:27:48 EDT Subject: It's a wrap and other stories Two weeks ago last Friday, the Carolina Toasternet went down for five days, producing a backlog of mail that took me until last Friday to get through in its entirety. (I might have gotten it done sooner were it not for my newfound fondness for hanging out on MOO servers, but that's neither here nor there.) The need to plow through numerous high-traffic lists forced me to defer replying to sundry bits of business in the previous week's worth of ecto digests until yesterday--then, as I was in the middle of writing a fairly long post to encompass it all, my connection failed, and the previous several hours of work were lost. I shall now attempt to reconstruct it all as best I can, and move forward from there. A week ago yesterday, my incoming snailmail included Happy's copy of the Big Three-O edition of the Happy Birthday Project. I diligently gift-wrapped it that night, and the next morning posted it to the home office in Bearsville along with our other birthday gift to her, the copy of Merrill Markoe's _How To Be Hap-Hap-Happy Like Me_ which I had found in Waterstone's a few weeks earlier after a fruitless search of sundry other shops, and to which I applied the last monies remaining in the street sign fund from last Christmas. In accordance with Doug's ukase, while on my watch the tapes remained not only untouched by human hands, and unheard by human ears, but unheard by my ears as well; so it will be some time before I can address myself to the content. I did take the indecent liberty of copping a look at the track listing, and it was impressive. Now for my comebacks to numerous stale posts to these pages :-). Meredith deemed it ironic that a classic rock station woould have the call letters WNEW. This is no less ironic, IMHO WIVH, than the fact that its AM sister station, also called WNEW until the format was changed recently, had as the crown jewel of its schedule a program called _Make Believe Ballroom_, which premiered in the 1930s featuring music of that period, and stayed with that same music all the way to the aforesaid format change. Let me be the last to applaud Joe Zitt's good fortune in landing a steady day job. I myself have recently responded to several ads that looked lucrative; hopefully Joe's recent luck means the ecto world is on a roll in this regard :-). WRT someone's query: Miriam Makeba is indeed married to Hugh Masakela. Wasn't _Dune_ Kyle McLachlan's first Big Break, long before he achieved fame playing a coffee-and-pie enthusiast in some northwestern tank town? :-) WRT someone's query on finding discussion of Dar Williams online: The mailing list folk_music has quite a lot of it, or at least it did when I used to subscribe to it. To subscribe, mail listserv@nysernet.org with the body "subscribe folk_music." Watching and reading the retrospectives on Jerry Garcia's career, with the mentions of the entreneurship of numerous Deadheads on the concert circuit, I got to wondering if any of them had ever gotten the idea to start a travel agency, and call it LONG STRANGE TRIPS. Wouldst that my imagination for Ecto products were still as good :-). All that also reminded me of the time that I saw the words DEAD HEADS UNITE written in chalk on a sidewalk, and then attended some bit of business in the Department of Sociology conference room, just after it had been outfitted with portraits of both of those former heads of the department who had previously died (surviving ones apparently having to wait for their time to come). I thought about what I had seen on that sidewalk; somehow it seemed to fit the occasion :-). While on the subject of necrology, as the _Sporting News_ used to title their obit section: years ago, my mother reported to me her recollection that my first words apparently were "Mickey Mantle"; she was at a loss to determine conclusively why I chose that phrase from all the possibilities. From such humble beginnings did I grow to the point of now spamming you all with such verbal diarrhea as this :-). WRT someone's observation that David Lynch had succeeded in keeping his penchant for weirdness under control while directing _The Elephant Man_, to the point that you'd never now it was his film just by watching it: That little irony is nothing compared to the fact that it was produced by Mel Brooks, who apparently also deemed it advisable to keep a low profile WRT that fact. WRT Amy's jeremiad about netsex, AOL style: She raises a number of interesting points to ponder. Insofar as I have had the opportunity to observe these phenomena, a lot of the word-based pseudosexual activity on line is indeed rather mean-spirited--but a lot of it is not. While the former variety may seem, at least, to predominate on certain IRC channels, and in the internal chat rooms of some online services, a number of knowledgeable observers have opined to me that a higher order of intimacy is typical on a number of MOO servers--albeit less visibly than the other, because it mostly goes on in people's private rooms. Clearly cyberspace is not a homogeneous phenomenon in this regard. BTW, I think the garter/guitar gaffe made by the HNG on AOL WRT Amy's user ID is an easy mistake to make. I myself made it the first few times I encountered her AOL handle in these pages, perhaps unduly influenced by the memory of the probably defunct, but in its time perfectly asexual Dixieland jazz club in this town, the Red Garter. Erotic baggage aside, the continuing validity of the "get a life" attitude toward devotees of computer-mediated communication is worth pondering. Back when Sherry Turkle wrote _The Second Self_ in the 70s, there may have been something to the notion that hackers devoted themselves to their computers (albeit without CMC as we have come to know it) to compensate for their low levels of interpersonal competence. But the current weight of scholarly opinion, and certainly the predominant sense of net denizens who have written on the subject, is that that viewpoint is obsolete. Members of today's online communities use cyberspace to supplement, rather than substitute for, RL interaction--indeed, as all or most of us can testify at firsthand, electronic social relationships are often the precursor of RL ones. While we're on the subject of CMC, let me take this opportunity to lament the apparent disappearance of the once-thriving real-time corner of the ecto world. Our IRC channel, on those occasions I've tried it since regaining IRC access, has always been completely empty. While the crash of the MUSH server understandably put a crimp in our collective involvement there, I can recall meeting other ectophiles there on only a couple of isolated occasions, in the few times I've bothered to try it since the crash. I'm not even sure if they're still using the "temporary" replacement server they installed after the cataclysm. For all that, I would invite any of you who are interested in a good real-time chat experience online to check out the various MOO servers now extant. My favorite is the PMC MOO, on which the Cybermind maillist maintains a presence, which is what led mdown that particular lane of the Primrose Bangpath in the first place. Its telnet address is hero.village.virginia.edu, port 7777. Kerry's conclusion that Tori's music has deeper roots in that of Laura Nyro than in Kate's is interesting and provocative. Intuitively, I can't say I agree with it. Laura's music, at least the stuff from her salad days in the 60s and early 70s, has a strong urban influence in general and a strong New York influence in particular, which I haven't detected very much of in the musical output of our favorite North Carolinian; though I do think the metropolitan influences in her creativity are stronger than those of the southern hinterlands _per se_. (Should I have led this paragraph off with ObMusic or some similar disclaimer? Oh well :-). ) As a sickening remnant of the 60s and 70s myself :-), I'd like to praise Vickie's masterful bit of Kafkaesque satire on the apostles of what Anna Quindlen once called "physical correctness." When a letter to the ACLU newsletter, no less, can defend so-called "lifestyle discrimination" as a safeguard for the legitimate interests of stockholders, we may all be in more trouble than we thought. Speaking of heat, I wonder how much it had to do with Harold the cat deserting me a couple of weeks ago. On a hot night he uncharacteristically darted out the front door; stayed out in front for a few hours, resisting all my efforts to retrieve him; eventually ran away fast; apparently revisited the next-door neighbor's yard a few times in the ensuing week, but always took pains to stay a few steps ahead of me; and hasn't been seen since. The feline mind is indeed an inscrutable one. Wonder how body-modification enthusiasts who savor the zen of doing it unanesthetized would view Irvin's experience with root canal in a pure state? :-) _Mirabile Dictu_, I have managed to ponder and respond to ten digests, representing a whole week of real time, without experiencing another crash. It is reassuring to find out that technology is capable of doing something right now and then :-). Let me close out this megapost with Happy Birthday sentiments for Vickie, now as always one of the mainstays of these pages, and of the ecto world in general. Mitch (ante-electronic hunter/pecker) ------------------------------ From: "Matt Bittner" Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 14:58:29 -0500 Subject: Latest, monthly acquistition... I figured to avoid EWS, I would only make one purchase a month. This would avoid not only EWS, but SWMBO-FE, as well (warning: if you really want that last acronym explained, email me, as it could upset a few ;-) ). So, I had the choice of Rose Chronicles _shiver_ (or something like that) and Joan Osborne's _relish_. (Neile: Anonymous 4 is still there, but since luch was taking so long - as since it's been there for months - I'll pick it up in September - unless something else comes along ;-) ) First (actually, second) listen through: Impressive. This (to used an extremely worn cliche) rocks. Although the whole work is great, two tracks stick out: "St. Teresa" and "Spider Web". I enjoy the image "Spider Web" gives. The only song that doesn't hit me strong, is the Dylan remake, "Man in the Long Black Coat". It just doesn't do anything for me, although it's "listenable". To me, Rose Chronicles - at least tracking through it as fast as I did - sounded too much like lush. I wasn't impressed. Are the other Rose works' different? Didn't I hear that the lead singer have a solo work out? I also looked at Loreena's _The Visit_, and am waiting until I come across more money (it was full price). What's her winter "seasonal" CD like? I am still enamoured by _the mask and mirror_, although I had to take a whole week without listening to it. Too much of a good thing, and you'll permantly be in a good mood! In this day and age, we can't have that! ;-) Mucho hugeo coolo hugs to Vickie. Sunday, here, the heat index was 110, so it wasn't fun either, especially for our little boy. The heat effects him the worse. It's too the point that the car has to be at a certain temp before he'll calm down. However, we are having relief. It was 78 here yesterday, and "only" 82 today. Gads, I tread the 90's tomorrow... Matt - -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Matthew Bittner WW1 Modeler, ecto subscriber, new dad meba@cso.com Omaha, Nebraska "SPOON!" - The Tick's battle cry - -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ------------------------------ From: Richard Holmes Date: Tue, 15 Aug 95 13:58:50 -0700 Subject: Re: Latest, monthly acquistition... Matt writes: >I also looked at Loreena's _The Visit_, and am waiting until I come >across more money (it was full price). What's her winter "seasonal" >CD like? I am still enamoured by _the mask and mirror_, although I >had to take a whole week without listening to it. Too much of a good >thing, and you'll permantly be in a good mood! In this day and age, >we can't have that! ;-) It is more sparsely arranged than others of hers. The Visit and The Mask and Mirror are both a bit different than her earlier (Elemental, Parallel Dreams) stuff, in that it is, for lack of a better description, more "new age / modern" than the "traditional" stuff. The winter album has several Christmas-y / Christian stuff, as opposed to the more eclectic stuff in much of her releases... a big IMHO for protection here. - -Richard ------------------------------ From: Kevin John Contzen Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 14:18:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Latest, monthly acquistition... > I also looked at Loreena's _The Visit_, and am waiting until I come > across more money (it was full price). What's her winter "seasonal" > CD like? I am still enamoured by _the mask and mirror_, although I > had to take a whole week without listening to it. Too much of a good > thing, and you'll permantly be in a good mood! In this day and age, > we can't have that! ;-) if you have loreena's earlier albums, _to drive the cold winter away_ is in a similar tone to _elemental_, somewhat sparse, but beautiful in simplicity... none of the lush arrangements you find on TM&M. the songs were recorded on location in monasteries & churches & such, and i think the whole thing is just the most marvelous christmas album ever, (with _Count Your Blessings_ following not far behind).. Loreena was very smart about not picking those songs that you hear over and over again to death in the malls and wherever, traditional (somewhat obscure sometimes) english/scottish carols and some original compositions. Definitely worth buying, especially as it's actually decent christmas album (who would've thought? a christmas album not full of schlock, that you can actually play the rest of the year? i know, i know, there are other good seasonal albums, but they're few and far between in the wilds of winter muzak) :) kevin merry christmas/happy solstice/season's greetings/happy hannukah (did i spell that right?)/generally have lots of great winter fun! great. now i'm in the mood for christmas, and it's the middle of summer. . - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ kevin contzen ....... "I've been looking for a saviour in these dirty streets vancouver bc ..... looking for a saviour beneath these dirty sheets I've canada ... been raising up my hands drive another nail in just what contzen@sfu.ca . god needs one more victim" -- Tori Amos, "Crucify" ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V2 #192 ************************** ======================================================================== Please send any questions or comments about the list to ecto-owner@nsmx.rutgers.edu