From: owner-ecto-digest To: ecto-digest@ns2.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto-digest V2 #163 Reply-To: ecto@nsmx.rutgers.edu Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Sunday, 23 July 1995 Volume 02 : Number 163 The Ecto digest is now being generated automatically. Please send problems and questions to: ecto-owner@nsmx.rutgers.edu. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Matt Bittner" Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 08:29:25 CDT Subject: A small request... I just received word from a friend that someone stole his Rottweiler out of his yard. This is not a nice thing. Since there are some of you who are animal lover's, I was wondering if you could do me a favor. Since I don't have access to the 'net outside of email, I was wondering if you could point me in the direction of web pages/email lists that deal with animals. He's from Iowa, so maybe if you could look for items specific to Iowa, and Central Iowa, I would be most grateful. I realize this is not the best place to post this, but it's my only resort. I am an animal lover, and would hate for someone to take off with my dog. I feel really sad now. Matt Bittner | "We devour those meba@cso.com | who would subdue Omaha, Nebraska | us." ------------------------------ From: lakrahn@imho.net (Laurel Krahn) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 09:06:09 -0500 Subject: Re: fiddly-dee fiddly-tah At 04:09 AM 7/21/95 -0400, Greg Bossert wrote: > >Laurel leads: >> Boiled in Lead may not be a band that springs to mind when one thinks of >> Kate (or Happy), but I'd strongly encourage folks to check them out. :-) > >eh, my mind springs in strange directions ;) BiL accurately terms >their style as 'Celtidelic', though Turkish or Hungarian influences >are as likely to appear as those from damp, peaty climes. fantasy >fans may be reminded of the punk elven snarl of the Borderlands books; >one suspects very much that BiL was an influence on that whole >scene... The Pogues and 3 Mustaphas 3 are reference points (more of >the later: no surprise since Hijaz 'Hank' Mustapha has produced BiL, >and Robin Anders is a.k.a Robin Mustapha on 3M3's _heart of uncle_) More and more, I think of BiL as ecto fodder, just 'cuz quite a good percentage of ectophiles seem to have good opinions of them. :) I think it's safe to say that Boiled in Lead was one of the strongest influences on the music of the Borderlands books (anthologies & novels, usually edited in some part by Terri Windling-- I say that for clarification, there are other Borderlands books...). I don't recall the date of the first publication of the first Borderlands anthology (Bordertown, I think it was)... But I know Emma Bull's novel _War for the Oaks_ came out in 1985... and Boiled in Lead was mentioned a few times there. That novel (along with the work of Charles de Lint) really started the Urban Fantasy movement in earnest... prompted things like Borderlands... (IMHO). >the BiL-associated Omnium Recordings/DeSelby Productions is a great >place to find rare folk/worldbeat/take-it-to-the-fridge stuff (the >sort of finds that certainly spring to mind when one thinks of Ecto :) >the whole effort is clearly a work of love, and worth a check (or >money order ;) the catalog is at > > > >and if you start following links you *will* find something of >interest. True enough... Actually, folks could just head to http://www.apocalypse.org/ or http://www.player.org/ and go nuts... That particular web server houses the Leadheads page, the Flash Girls Web Page, Omnium Recordings, SteelDragon Press, and other cool pages. :) (Which reminds me, signal-to-noise, the mailing list for discussing the Flash Girls, Emma Bull, Will Shetterly, the Fabulous Lorraine, the Scribblies, Neil Gaiman, Jane Yolen, and whatever else comes up... hasn't been operating lately. But... it'll be back with a vengeance, at apocalypse.org (most likely) sometime next week. Those on the list will hear details shortly. Those interested in hearing more about the list can email me or check out http://www.iw.net/~lakrahn/signal.html.) >hey, rrrrob, they got the old black with gold knotwork BiL tee-shirt >back in stock, just like mine. be the second kid on yur block! It's one of my favorite shirts of all time. For a more obscure (but *very* cool) Boiled in Lead shirt, this years Leadheads/Pilgrimmage shirts are still available from Hilda Marshall. The Leadheads Web Page has details somewhere on it (including Hilda's email address). The Pilgrimmage shirts started...last year. Shirts to commemorate Boiled in Lead's annual St. Patrick's Day show @ First Avenue in Minneapolis. The first year of the Pilgrimmage, we had Leadheads from MA, PA, CA, and all over the place converge for the show. The first t-shirt was something of a "tour" t-shirt listing the places people came from as tourdates. This years shirt is Highly Cool. A black T-shirt with a cauldron of Boiling Lead (hmmm, go figure) in red, white, and black is depicted on the front. With the rising smoke spelling out "Leadheads"... On the back, is a recipe card for the show... Ingredients feature the names of places folks came from for the show... directions are too cool for words. Words don't do the shirt justice. One needn't have actually been at the show to wear it... (And the shirt does get one detail wrong.. the recipe says "Serves 500," but the band tells me they had 1500 people at the show. :) ) I was the only Leadhead at the Sioux Falls BiL show... and people were asking about the shirt, lots. The band gives the shirt a big thumbs up (and have been known to wear their own shirts). Great way for leadheads to get recognized @ shows, too. :) I've babbled enough... I'm off to Fourth Street Fantasy Convention in Minneapolis this weekend. Should be a blast... My web page has a link to the programming schedule for Fourth Street, should anyone wanna see what I'm up to up there... (Panelists this year include: Damon Knight, Kate Wilhelm, Steven Brust, Emma Bull, Will Shetterly, John M. Ford, Don Keller, Patrick Nielsen Hayden, Teresa Nielsen Hayden, Raphael Carter, Martha Soukup, Pamela Dean, Patricia C. Wrede, and the Usual Suspects). (Fun!) Best, Laurel (lakrahn@imho.net) Krahn Virtual Home: http://www.iw.net/~lakrahn/ IMHO Productions-- Internet Consulting & Web Design ------------------------------ From: lakrahn@imho.net (Laurel Krahn) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 09:12:00 -0500 Subject: Re: tiptoeing through the mail At 07:37 AM 7/21/95 CDT, Cathy Guetzlaff wrote: >Meth asks about the Jane Siberry concert in Mpls: >>Gack! When was that?!? > >I think it was July 5. It struck me rather odd that the only publicity >for it was a one-line blurb in the paper, so perhaps it didn't really >happen. I can't imagine Jane coming here to do a performance out on a >lawn at the university when school is out for the summer. I've also >seen ads for Lollopalooza usually held in St. Paul, but that tour is >skipping the Twin Cities this year, so maybe all these phantom shows >are getting publicity when they aren't even happening. Or something. > >I know there are other Twin Citians on ecto, did any of you see Jane >at the U? Sigh............ I'm not a Minneapolitan (but I play one on the Net and in my heart and such), but I have close ties and hadn't heard of a show. Sigh. Will check some of the Sunday Mpls Star Tribunes and see if there was a mention (not that I noticed on first glance). Humina. July 5th was my birthday, seeing Jane would've been too perfect (I've never seen her live before). Wonder if it's true (hope it's not...). (Or better yet, that she is coming to town sometime in the future). Best, Laurel (lakrahn@imho.net) Krahn [who should stop writing email and start packing and getting ready to leave for Minneapolis...] http://www.iw.net/~lakrahn/index.html ------------------------------ From: awphili@xs4all.nl Date: Fri, 21 Jul 95 16:20:13 Subject: Margot Smith revisited It seems my reply to Anthony's latest message about Margot Smith got lost in the digest weirdness. (Actually, I'm happy about that, because it wasn't really nice. :) If I understood what happened correctly, EMI gave Margot a lot of money to record an album that they never tried to promote. They now own the rights to it, so she can't release it in any other way. I wouldn't be surprised if EMI did this because they knew they would have lost more money if they had decided to promote it. This album would have blown the other pap they're trying to sell straight out of the top-40. Nobody would be interested in listening to that kind of musick anymore. :) This behaviour is highly unethical, and I would be surprised if it were legal. The only logical thing for Margot to do now is to get into the state of mind she was in when the back cover picture of _Sleeping with the Lion_ was taken, and sue them! :> What does Margot think about this herself? Albert - -- Albert W. Philipsen | "I am always thinking of your convenience, United Mooseheads Inc. | at least when I am not concerned with President | your education." -- Seth ------------------------------ From: awphili@xs4all.nl Date: Fri, 21 Jul 95 17:05:47 Subject: Re: tiptoeing through the mail Meredith, who is always nicely disagreeing with my ideas so I can explain them further, wrote: > Albert opined: > > >When Ecto was first created, I think it was a good idea to see top-40 > >music as anti-Ecto, but this attitude might start to work against us > >now. Is it not the desire of every Ectophile to see the top-40 filled > >with Ecto quality music? > > No. As woj said, Top-40 equals success, which equals sold-out shows in > Madison Square Garden and other tin cans with no acoustic value whatsoever, > and audiences that are even worse than the ones Tori got on the last tour. This is the "attitude" or belief I was referring to, that I would like to see changed. Beliefs create reality. That is elementary Seth theory. > It equals ectophilic music being the mainstream. No, I would like Ecto music to remain music wich is somehow ahead of its time. This does not mean that the quality of music could not continuously improve. On Ecto, we would create the quality of the top-40 of the future, while the top-40 could consist of music with Ecto quality from the past. (I'm just equating qualities here, not actual music.) > I don't know about you, > but *I* couldn't deal with that! I *like* getting blank looks whenever I > tell someone what music I listen to. Corrupting the innocent is *so* much > fun, I'd hate to lose the thrill. ;> Yes! That wouldn't have to change. > >Full of Grace > > I think she's decided that's going to be the title of the song -- "Fall From > Grace" makes more sense semantically, but not really in context. Weird. Fall from grace does not make sense to me at all. :-P Albert - -- Albert W. Philipsen | "I am always thinking of your convenience, United Mooseheads Inc. | at least when I am not concerned with President | your education." -- Seth ------------------------------ From: Jeffrey Hanson Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 09:16:29 -0700 Subject: Re: tiptoeing through the mail >>Speaking of their August 15th list...Heather Nova's _Oyster_ is listed for >>release that day!! >Whoa, like, an American release?!? On which label? Heather Nova is being released on Sony. August 15th is going to be a great ecto day--new Jane, new Holly Cole and finally Heather! Jeff ------------------------------ From: Vickie the Ectophile Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 12:11:12 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Just 'cause *HUGS/GUHS* to anyone who wants 'em. Vickie (it's alive! ack!) ps...I love this list. ------------------------------ From: JC214@aol.com Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 16:44:48 -0400 Subject: the idle death threat meredith wrote: >>several members of sans cherubs were rescued in the parking lot after the >>show by sarah, ash, brian and david in their white stretch limo. > >I was going to kill you, but then I read: just because i've met sarah 9 or 10 times before!..... followed by: >>of course joe, dan and i were already winging our way home having been >>sufficiently frightened to death by the lightning.... >Aha. You've been spared this time, sir. But only just. :) gloating over my poor misfortune of being in the wrong car (the one with a full tank of gas!)!!!! well! (in a huffy tone) then i'm not even going to tell you about sarah and i walking arm in arm to the bar at the buttontree inn and how we met john prine and darden smith and rosie flores and all had drinks and hung around the piano playing songs and carrying on, OR about the lovely note that sarah wrote on a bar napkin to me which is still hanging on the door of the refrigerator, OR the time when she came to danbury and had a bad cold and i invited her for some homemade chicken soup with matzoh balls, OR the party we had for her when she played at Purchase, OR about when we met at the Town Hall show and got invited to her dressing room and couldn't find it but when we did she kissed me and signed several FTE posters for me and joe, OR about how i have every sarah cd personally autographed- some quite intimately, OR about the lovely thank you note she wrote to me after i gave her some sunglasses, OR about the Newport Folk Festival last year and how Ash and Sarah and Jenn and I shopped for homemade percussion instruments... and i'm NOT going to tell you about the time that Tori kissed me TWICE either! SO THERE! happily knowing that meredith's favorite performer knows ME by name, chuck : ) ------------------------------ From: "Mitchell A. Pravatiner" Date: Fri, 21 Jul 95 19:22:29 EDT Subject: Dreaming in color WRT Meredith's first image of KaTe in a dream: sounds not that different from reality, save for the hair color. Mitch ------------------------------ From: Dave Cook Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 07:29:34 +0800 (WST) Subject: Ecto Artists in Germany Hello, I am travelling to Berlin and Munich next week and am wondering if any one can direct me to any German ecto-fodder. Thanks, Dave +------------------------------------------------+ | Dave Cook Perth, Western Australia | | Internet: davecook@yarrow.wt.com.au | | IRC on #Atari, #Ecto or #Indigo-Girls as Cevad | +------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ From: doylem@iia.org (Michael Doyle) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 19:59:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Ecto top-40 >awphili@xs4all.nl sez: > >>When Ecto was first created, I think it was a good idea to see top-40 >>music as anti-Ecto, but this attitude might start to work against us >>now. Is it not the desire of every Ectophile to see the top-40 filled >>with Ecto quality music? > >frankly, i don't really care what fills the top 40. i don't listen to >it or pay attention to it. top 40 is a measure of commercial success. >i'm interested in artistic success. if the two coincide, that's fine by >me, but i'm not concerned if they don't. > >woj > This brings up an interesting point. woj's pov is certainly valid, logical. And yet many of us wish to see our favorite artists catapulted into view of the mass-cultural eye. We evangalize friends (and strangers), pester radio stations, grumble at CD stores that lack the works of our goddesses and gods. Why do we do this? Is it that the our taste in music is part of our identity, and we seek to make the rest of the world a little more like ourselves? Is it simply that we have found joy in this music and virtuosly attempt to increase the joy of others by sharing it? Is it that we want others to think we're smart or hip when we expose them to enjoyable music they haven't heard before? Is it the thrill of saying, "I knew them when?" Is it that we want to hear our favorite songs when we turn on the radio -- because usually they don't play our favorite songs? Are we seeking the acceptance and validation of the mass culture? Or do we simply want our favorite artists to achieve commercial success so they won't starve and can keep making the music that enraptures our ears, inflames our minds and speaks to our souls? I don't suggest any one of these as an answer. I just wonder at the passion that has made me (and probably a few of you) mix tapes, trade CDs, drag unbelievers to concerts, spew litanies of band histories and performances, coax the unwilling to listen to one more track (and how did you like that last one?). What is the source? Is it the music alone, or something else, too? Tschuss, Mike Michael Doyle doylem@iia.org ============================================================================ ======== "You can make a conspiracy out of anything, if you work hard enough at it." - - Michael J. Arbouet ------------------------------ From: Ingrid Karklins Date: Fri, 21 Jul 95 21:26:02 CDT Subject: jump jump From greg: >(including a couple from ms. Karklins >which i already knew were great, having lived with woj for some while, >but are worth jumping up and down about again and doubly so in >appreciation to Ingrid *jump*jump*) Thank you. hop hop hop Ingrid ------------------------------ From: Neile Graham Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 21:29:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Just 'cause Hugs back, Vickie! So great to see you on ecto! xox - --Neile ------------------------------ From: awphili@xs4all.nl Date: Sat, 22 Jul 95 16:23:16 Subject: Fall Down Some time ago, Anthony asked us to keep guessing the meaning of Margot Smith's songs. I've come up with a new interpretation of "Fall Down". Actually, this interpretation is not new at all, but just my first impression when I heard it. I think it is simply a perfect little love song. It's really obvious, actually, and I wonder how I could have thought otherwise. My only complaint about it is that is sounds a bit one-sided or unbalanced, lyrically, like it is about a competition or something. Albert - -- Albert W. Philipsen | "I am always thinking of your convenience, United Mooseheads Inc. | at least when I am not concerned with President | your education." -- Seth ------------------------------ From: Damon_Harper@mindlink.bc.ca (Damon Harper) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 95 15:55 PDT Subject: sage ... and vickie! huzzah! sage has finally joined the Greatest List Ever! *beaming* ...hey sage, a warning - your wallet *will* suffer. Mine's currently just killing time, waiting anxiously to be filled again so i can go buy about fifteen million more ecto-approved cds :) now if only we can get sherlyn to join... (i don't *think* she's on the list...?) and a second huzzah! for the fact that vickie still exists! i've checked on the MUSH periodically, but it certainly seems to have died... ok, i admit, for me it was a big procrastination thing during school exams... i wonder if i could even *do* any of the stuff i did on there any more?! anyway, great big canajan *hugs* to the both of you! damon (still wondering where "huzzah" came from anyway...) PS - *phew* managed to reserve my copy of happy's radio cd-4. i read ecto quite infrequently these days - sage can tell you why ;) - and didn't see the announcement until two or three days after it was posted. luckily they still had some left! i wrote to the aol address, and got a reply very quickly from kevin. i also finally ordered rhodesongs and the bat-winged dove t-shirt, which i've been meaning to do since last christmas :) PPS - mitch wrote remarking on sage's writing talents. well, i urge everyone with web browsers to check out http://www.dfw.net/~soulmate/ for a real treat! PPPS - neile, i'm still waiting for some people to get back to me with information i need to finish the project i'm working on... but... once i finally get that it should be done and over pretty quickly. i'll let you know :) *hugs* again! damon the post script (frowning at another "olga" message in his inbox and considering unsubscribing from dewy-fields because that's all he really seems to get from it, letters about meeting women in the former USSR, and associated flames. gah...) _/\_ Damon_Harper@mindlink.bc.ca __\ /__ "Doo doo doo doo, doo doo doo doo, nomad@acca.nmsu.edu \ / doo doo doo doo, doo doo doo doo." Vancouver, BC, CANADA |/||\| - The Cranberries, http://rever.nmsu.edu/~nomad/paukarut.htm "Ode To My Family" ------------------------------ From: Damon_Harper@mindlink.bc.ca (Damon Harper) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 17:52:32 -0600 Subject: animal slaves i was just looking through some of my old tapes and came across this copy i made of "a fine end" by the animal slaves ... wow, almost two years ago now. the animal slaves were a local vancouver band who are long defunct, i think all or mainly female (well at least the lead singer is female)... and that's really all i know about them. a friend in first year university (who is in israel now, "learning things from men in big beards and black caps" :), had this tape and got me to listen to it, and i fell in love. some really great music, imo, and quite ecto-ey, but no one else seems to have heard of them. anyway, i'm just sending out a feeler to see if anyone out there in ectoland can tell me more about them. i only know of the one album (a fine end)... were there more? and were they ever released on cd? (i hardly *ever* listen to my tapes, so this tends unfortunately to sit on a back shelf gathering dust :/ ) i remember asking neil about them once, seeing as he's a vancouverite too, but i don't think he had much to say. anyway, this is definitely a band i'd like to add to my Big Expensive CD Collection if i can! thanks for any info hopefuldamon (who finally got smart and made a separate copy of eudora to point to his mailing list account ... now if only i can find a good freeware mailing program that lets me set up *two* mail accounts without having to change the bloody configuration each time....... :) _/\_ Damon_Harper@mindlink.bc.ca __\ /__ "Doo doo doo doo, doo doo doo doo, nomad@acca.nmsu.edu \ / doo doo doo doo, doo doo doo doo." Vancouver, BC, CANADA |/||\| - The Cranberries, http://rever.nmsu.edu/~nomad/paukarut.htm "Ode To My Family" ------------------------------ From: Neile Graham Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 18:56:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Dalbello's _Whoman Foursays_ disc available Hi, everyone-- I recently spotted a used copy of Dabello's _Whoman Foursays_ fo sale, and checked today and it's still there. If anyone wants me to pick it up for them, please let me know. It's $14.99 + 8.2% Seattle tax + postage to wherever you are. For those of you who don't know, Dalbello is a Canadian singer who did her first alternative album _Whoman Foursays_ with Mick Ronson. It's a powerful, gutsy disc, kind of an 80s PJ Harvey? Definitely a pre-cursor to the Liz Phair/Alanis Morrissette crowd. Carole Pope from Rough Trade sings backup. Anyway, as the disc is out of print in North America, I thought someone might be interested. Let me know. Ironically, Jens Brage just had a friend send me a copy from Sweden because that's the only place we could find one for Michael Peskura--I'd been looking for three years! - --Neile neile@u.washington.edu ------------------------------ From: kcd@bull.cray.com (Kevin Dekan {x66440 CF/DEV}) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 95 02:14:55 CDT Subject: late nite ramblings Hi ectopeople! Here it is just after 2:00 a.m. Sunday morning and I'm wondering just what in the hell I'm doing sitting at my workstation here at work. Two-fold answer to that: I'm working on a design from hell that I just can't get out of my mind and my SO had to go to work at midnite anyway, so I thought hmmmm... maybe I can exorcise this demon at what at first seemed to be an appropriate time. But it doesn't look good. Some things are best left alone in the wee hours of the morning. Especially work. ;-) Home, breakfast, and the British Open golf tourney are looking pretty good at the moment. If I'm still awake. on Wed, 19 Jul 1995, at 00:22:10 -0400 (EDT), Sue Trowbridge wrote in part: > LATE SHOW WITH DAVID LETTERMAN, CBS > Tu 7/25 Natalie Merchant Yes! Thanks Sue for posting this info! I'm not much for late nite talk shows but I'm definately going to tune in for this one. Marisa said on Thu, 20 Jul 1995: > I'd have to agree. After listening to _Macalla_, I promptly went out and > bought everything of Clannad's I could get my hands on. Of course, being > a folkie myself, I like their earlier material better than their more > recent stuff, but I still love _Macalla_. WARNING: This is a good > "introductory" album for someone into mainstream music, but may be too > MOR for some seasoned ecto-ears! I'll bet you probably like _Fuiam_ then. I don't have _Macalla_, but your description sounds like it is more along the lines of _PastPresent_ or _Banba_. No? I like _Fuiam_, but it's a bit too traditional for me. I guess I like the more mainstream stuff that they have done lately. I hear they are going to have a new one out pretty soon too. Matt wrote in response to Jeff's comprehensive Ecto top-40 list: > And suddenly, tammy! (which Jeff missed on his list - shame, > shame shame ). Yep! But I think we can forgive Jeff for the omission. ;-) Another band that might make the list is October Project which I happen to be listening to right now. Good stuff and they too are supposed to have a new album coming out within a month or two. I'll be interested to hear how that sophmore effort turns out... Jeff may need to make a top-40_+_ list. and Meth wrote on the same topic: > No. As woj said, Top-40 equals success, which equals sold-out shows in > Madison Square Garden and other tin cans with no acoustic value whatsoever, > and audiences that are even worse than the ones Tori got on the last tour. > It equals ectophilic music being the mainstream. I don't know about you, > but *I* couldn't deal with that! I *like* getting blank looks whenever I > tell someone what music I listen to. Corrupting the innocent is *so* much > fun, I'd hate to lose the thrill. ;> I couldn't agree more. My new girlfriend thinks *all* the music I listen to is "weird". But I'm breaking her in slowly and on occasion I have caught her putting in an ecotphilic type disc and she'll comment that "Hey, this sounds pretty cool". I break a wry smile at this and hope that I can bring her around to listening to some more of my *weird* music. :-) Otherwise she's gonna get damn sick of me in a hurry... Well, I best get back to my exorcism since I'm here. More coffee. It's gonna be a long nite... See you, Kevin D. ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V2 #163 ************************** ======================================================================== Please send any questions or comments about the list to ecto-owner@nsmx.rutgers.edu