From: owner-ecto-digest To: ecto-digest@ns2.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto-digest V2 #152 Reply-To: ecto@nsmx.rutgers.edu Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Saturday, 8 July 1995 Volume 02 : Number 152 The Ecto digest is now being generated automatically. Please send problems and questions to: ecto-owner@nsmx.rutgers.edu. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Greg Bossert Date: Fri, 7 Jul 95 18:51:05 EDT Subject: Happy Happies, Ecto Erks? Mitch nags: >This is just to remind everyone again that the deadline for sending >musical contributions to Doug for the Big Three-O edition of the Happy >Birthday Project is July 15. We don't want to hear from the same people >for tape after tape--well, actually we do, but not only from them :-). We >want to keep the music coming from those who have contributed in the past, >and also broaden the base to include those who haven't done so before. your humble footah and immoderate moderator would like to thank Mitch and Doug for their efforts towards the HBP, this year and in those past, and to encourage an ecstatic Ectopuddlian response. in light of this attitude, and in celebration of Happy's continued failure to catch up with me, age-wise (i'm LP, these days), i hope to contribute something myself, for the first time in several years. Mitch, it'll be a homebrew job (a couple o' Carollan tunes on me harp, most likely) and going directly to Doug... thanks again! *** Sue Trowbridge reports: >I'd heard rumors that Reprise Records would be releasing Aimee Mann's "I'm >With Stupid" this coming Tuesday, so I decided to see if I could find out >what's what. Aimee's deal with Reprise lasted all of five days (!) -- no >one there is talking, so don't ask why -- and she's shopping the album >*again*. I think we're in for a long wait, unfortunately. blerk. i was looking forward to that 'un. and Aimee (who has been an utter fave since before 'Til Tuesday, and used to be pretty easy to run into around my old Cambridge stomping grounds) deserves better. *** um, i've had reports of trouble reaching the list from Matt Bittner. anyone else having trouble (if so, mail me at bossert@noc.rutgers.edu; that worked for Matt.) *** recent yums: Jennifer Trynin -- _cockamamie_ walked past this one, thought "that *looks* like someone from boston. sure 'nough. uncanny ;) angry words and chewy guitars, and more writing than riot -- recommended. Seven Day Diary -- _skin and blister_ Gil Norton produces, and Tracy Chisholm worked on the previous EP, but the group avoids sounding like Throwing Hips and Bellies; more like a meaty Lava Hay with lifestyle problems... also recommended continuingly tasty: Nan Vernon's _manta ray_, David Sylvian's _weatherbox_, and Heather Nova Heather Nova Heather Nova... - -+- greg bossert rutgers university network services -+- - -+- bossert@noc.rutgers.edu -+- - -+- http://www-ns.rutgers.edu/~bossert -+- - -+- i have never been afraid to change -- Happy -+- - -+- the circumstances of the world -- Rhodes -+- ------------------------------ From: "Mitchell A. Pravatiner" Date: Fri, 7 Jul 95 19:03:10 EDT Subject: The business of being an artiste WRT MJM's query: If the record will be sold commercially, it may be prudent to get the copyright clearance. I suggest talking to a lawyer, especially one specializing in intellectual property. There is a good book on these issues, called _The Copyright Book_, whose citation escapes me. I've seen a local music mag with a section on legal aspects of recording artistry, but I don't remember its title either. NPR had a story about an album called _Necessary Angels_, whose artist escapes me, but it was made on the strength of donations from friends after her label dumped her. Maybe this is something the other artists we've been talking about in this connection the last few days should consider trying. May you all have a productive weekend of getting your HBP selections in good order :-). Mitch ------------------------------ From: hinshaw@cs.washington.edu (Kevin Hinshaw) Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 16:18:50 -0700 Subject: Re: Comment from Johnette and a question of style... John writes: >I really can't stand it when I can hear a singer >breathing. With Tori's music it's very noticable and in the two Jewel songs >that I've heard it's been noticable too. Does hearing the singer take a deep >breath bug anyone else? I guess I can see how that could be annoying. Usually I just tune out a singer's breathing, but I certainly notice it with Tori more than any other singer I've heard. But I like it! Hearing those breaths makes me feel -- I don't know -- less *removed* from the performer. Plus they can add some cool percussive effects sometimes. - -] Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 19:24:33 -0400 Subject: brought to you by the letters c and v vnozick@tribune.com sez: >How did you avoid the curse, Ceredith and Voj? that's "voy" (when my name is pronounced in german, the unofficial second language of ecto). >For that matter, let's rename everyone on ecto as a C or a V, and then begin >matching them up! Vitch, Claus and Vaudia, Vim Cook, Ctuart Myerburg, vjv, and >of course the Neiles: Veil, Veile and Veal. oy cey gecalt! +w ------------------------------ From: Dan Stark Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 21:59:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Breathing > Now I have a question about something that I hope won't cause > too many ruffled feathers. :) As some of you may remember, I am > not a Tori fan. One of my main reasons for not liking her music > is something that seems trivial, but is VERY irritating to me. I > really can't stand it when I can hear a singer breathing. With > Tori's music it's very noticable and in the two Jewel songs that > I've heard it's been noticable too. Does hearing the singer take a > deep breath bug anyone else? It doesn't bother me, it's actually a sort of signature to Tori's sound, and I think it seems to add a bit to the passionate feel of her singing. I think the breathing has as much to do with the mic processing as her actual style though. No one really takes breaths that sound that loud in reality, but Tori always has some heavy compression on her mic. It brings up the quieter sounds in her singing and helps to maintain an even, tight, powerful vocal sound that cuts over the instrumentation better. A side-effect of this kind of mic processing is that it also brings up the level of the breaths, especially when an artist Like Tori breathes as deeply and as close to the mic as she does. She also seems to like a sharp mic EQ setting, and I think she must be meticulous about her vocal sound as her mic processing is consistent in all her recordings and live performances. Dan - ------------------------------- DAN STARK dstark@freenet.niagara.com St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada ------------------------------ From: Neal Copperman Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 23:28:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: V&C's On Fri, 7 Jul 1995 vnozick@tribune.com wrote: > For that matter, let's rename everyone on ecto as a C or a V, and then begin > matching them up! Vitch, Claus and Vaudia, Vim Cook, Ctuart Myerburg, vjv, and > of course the Neiles: Veil, Veile and Veal. > I volunteer to add some color to any proposed pairings by being Teal rather than Veal (although I refuse to be TV-eal). *eal ------------------------------ From: jeffy@wam.umd.edu Date: Fri, 07 Jul 95 23:47:51 -0400 Subject: Carrie Tull? (this seems to have bounced; appologies if it shows up twice!) I picked up Carrie Newcomer's latest album, _The Bird or the Wing_ today. I've mentioned Carrie a few times on ecto, in the context of singing on an album by Robert Shannon Meitus and the Dorkestra. Well, the Dorkestra has faded out, Robert and Carrie are married, and Robert (along with the guy who produced the Dorkestra album I have) has produced Carrie's latest. The Dorkestra bassist also contributes. Let's see. It's your basic folk/pop/rock album. Lots of fiddle (it *is* from Indiana, after all), mandolin, pedal steel, and accordion. Mostly acoustic. Carrie's got a very pleasant voice. The song "The Yes of Yes" is a duet with Jennifer Kimball of The Story. woj should probably avoid this album, but *I* like it. ;-) On a completely different note, I also got Ian Anderson's new album, _Divinities_. Ian's *finally*, at least for one album, ditched the electric guitars and faux metal and come up with a wonderful collection of orchestral pieces. I really thought it was over for him after the 20 Years of Tull box set (_Rock Island_ and _Catfish Rising_ were both miserable, and I haven't gotten any of the Tull releases since then), but, well, change is good. ;-) If you like his raspy flute, check this one out. A guy named Andrew Giddings worked on it as well. Anybody know anything about him? The name seems *really* familiar, but I'm not sure why. I did spot him as a contributor on _Catfish Rising_, but that's probably not what I'm thinking of. On the other hand, I may just be confusing the name with Anthony Giddens (father of the theory of structuration). Jeff |Jeffrey C. Burka | "When I look in the mirror, I see a little clearer/ | | | I am what I am and you are you too./ Do you like | |jeffy@wam.umd.edu | what you see? Do you like yourself?" --N. Cherry | ------------------------------ From: jeffy@wam.umd.edu Date: Fri, 07 Jul 95 23:49:18 -0400 Subject: Re: sTuff (this one also looked like it bounced, so...) meth sez: >I agree entirely. I've seen several people around here apologizing for >talking about music that's "not ectophilic" or "not ectofodder" lately, and >that bugs me, too. Thefact that we mostly discuss music made by women and/ >or with female vocals just sort of happened -- it wasn't by design. No one >decreed that "ectophilic music" would fit some specific narrow criteria. I've been meaning to write about this for about 4 months. Dunno if I'll actually say (m)any of the things that have occurred to me. Over the last four years, the definition of "ecto music", or ectophillic, or whatever, has slowly grown and evolved. Originally, it seems to me, the term 'ecto' was used to refer to music that was in one way or another particularly reminiscient of Happy and/or KaTe. In particular, this meant female/soprano/ethereal/moody/folkish/celtic/atmospheric/whatever. It did not mean simply "has female vocals" which seems to be a large part of the current definition. That something did not fit into this category of music did not mean it wasn't worthy of mention on ecto-the-mailing-list, but rather that it might bear closer description, perhaps even warning ("just because I'm mentioning this doesn't mean you'll like it"). This is particularly true of the crunchier side of things (say, Tribe or Arson Garden). These days, ecto-type music seems to mean anything that folks want to mention on ecto. And that's fine. I think we're better off with the ecto category being broad. For one thing, it's merely indicative of the growth of the mailing list. It's a lot easier to recommend an album to a group of 50 people who are all fond of a virtually unknown artist with a distinctive style than it is to 400+. >"hey, you can't talk about them here!" That's what makes ecto ecto -- the >broadest of latitudes to discuss music (or books or movies or whatever) >without people getting all anal about topic drift. Yeah, unless you're arguing over whether or not the Indigo Girls are dykes and other related issues. >> Also picked up the new Deep Forest--I like it much more than their first, >>but I doubt it will do as well. Less danceable, more accordians, but some >>great vocals by Marta Sebestyen. Being heralded as "Deep Forest go to >>Transylvania". > >Marta Sebesteyen?!?!? Bizarre. I checked this out on a listening station at Borders today. Very spiff. Very Deep Forest, but very, well, not. It's definitely on the wish list, but not for the $16 they wanted! Also on the listening station was the latest Mouth Music (which I also want to get...I still don't particularly care for their first album, haven't heard the second, and *loved* what I heard of the third!) and an album called _The Legend of Bram_ by Maire B-something-or-other. No, *not* Maire Brennan. This was instrumental orchestral celtic music. Very nice. Anybody know anything about her? Whilst listening to these various albums, some photographer from the ucky Washington Times wanted to take my picture. He gave me the funniest look when he asked if I was listening to jazz, and I said, "No, celtic music." "Celtic? Celtic? Like...Irish?" Yeesh. >> Also, Johnette Napolitano/Holly Vincent's Vowel Movement--this is pretty >>good grungy stuff. Kind of reminescent of PJ Harvey's feedback & noise, >>but surprisingly not a "vocal" album. > >Hmmm... I've been meaning to pick this up, but now I'm not so sure... Oh, c'mon, Meredith, you know you want to. I got _Vowel Movement_ back when it came out (same day I bought _King_, as I recall). It's definitely not Blonde, but it's still a cool album. >No. I listened to _Medusa_ exactly twice, said, "Annie, write your own -- >it's better that way," andput it away. :( She was on tv this morning doing an acoustic version of...oh, piffle, what's that Marley song? It was absolutely *wonderful*. Her and some guy playing acoustic guitar and singing bv's. What's the arrangement on _Medusa_ like? Jeff ------------------------------ From: THE OLIVE-LOAF VIGILANTE Date: Sat, 08 Jul 1995 00:14:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: ASCAPIC in my soup Hi! Anybody want some humidity? New Jersey has plenty to spare this evening. :P Shelly reported: > I was grocery shopping in one of the larger natural foods chains when what >should come over the loud speakers but Save Our souls (acoustic). 1.) *Only* in California would someone describe a store as "one of the larger natural foods chains". ;> 2.) HAPPY in a GROCERY STORE?!?!? Gack. Oh well, I heard a report of a Katell Keineg hearing at a grocery store not too far from here recently, so I guess anything can happen! Dan Stark elucidated: >Anyway, I'm the Production Director of a radio station called HTZ-FM, a >fairly heavy current rock station that covers the area from Buffalo to >Toronto. Ah, I see... >I was actually. HTZ-FM was a major sponsor of the Friendship Festival >weekend, presenting all the shows that preceded and followed the one you >were at. We have a 30-foot vehicle that was parked on site for the entire >weekend. I think Planet was the presenting station for the >alternative/ecto day you came for. They're a small station based in Fort >Erie, automated about half the time, that plays a mix of mostly light >mainstream alternative music. They are automated... interesting. They were making a big deal of being "under construction" or some such while we were out there -- didn't they used to be a different format entirely until just a couple months ago? I don't recall being overly impressed by what I heard on the station last weekend. And the guy they had emceeing the day on Saturday was even more annoying than the morning guy on WFUV, and believe me, that takes doing! (Said annoying man "interviewed" Al Stewart today. I listened for 5 minutes, and Al got three whole words in edgewise the entire time. I finally had to turn it off -- it was just too painful. Sigh.) Anyway, sorry we missed you! Albert wondered about Margot Smith: >That is good to hear, but why did they lose so much money? Do the phrases "utter lack of promotion" and "dropped the ball completely" mean anything to you? :P Collier mused: >I imagine she is beholden to ASCAP or BMI or CESAC because this would be >the only real way she could collect royalties. If she was independant of >publishers and royalty collection agencies she could not practically >collect any of her earnings. Hmmm... interesting. Makes sense. I wonder who takes care of that on her end? Kevin? Suzanne? Another third party? >also, muzak companies normally license material through BMI or ASCAP in >order to produce their muzak carts and such. European licensing works >much the same (I'm currently dealing with that with my music, good thing >my manager is also an entertainment attorney - though not my lawyer) They're turning your work into European Muzak? It deserves a much better fate than that! :) Neile spoiled: >A friend who happened on an advance tape of _Maria_ gave it to me (with >some prompting from Mike Peskura--thanks, Mike!). I've only had a chance >to listen to it once, but wanted to give a quick report. Argh! I'd been fastidiously avoiding all talk of the new Jane album over on Siblings so it would all be new to me when I finally got it, and here you slipped one right over on me! I had read the whole thing before I knew what was happening. But I'm sure I will forget it all before August 15. :) >What a time for the siblings list to have lost its home! Actually, as I'm sure you've already figured out if you were on siblings before, it has found a new home and is up and running again... thanks, Jeff! The new address for the Jane Siberry mailing list is siblings@smoe.org. To subscribe, drop majordomo a note at siblings-request@smoe.org. John Sandoval (hi, John!) noted: >Oh, and Meredith, the Tower in Annapolis had >the Vowel Movement CD on one of the listening stations. Thanks for the tip -- it must be on the listening stations in NYC too. I'll check it out tomorrow if I can... >Now I have a question about something that I hope won't cause too many >ruffled feathers. :) As some of you may remember, I am not a Tori fan. Oh yes, you're one of *those*. ;> >One of >my main reasons for not liking her music is something that seems trivial, but >is VERY irritating to me. I really can't stand it when I can hear a singer >breathing. With Tori's music it's very noticable and in the two Jewel songs >that I've heard it's been noticable too. Does hearing the singer take a deep >breath bug anyone else? Actually, to me that's one of the best things about her music. At times it's almost like another percussion instrument. I can see how it could bug some people, though. >Are there other little things that turn people off from a persons music? This is *really* nit-picking, but I always cringe when I can clearly hear the sound of a person's fingers sliding up or down the guitar strings from one fret to another. This doesn't preclude me from enjoying the music most of the time, but it is something that jumps right out at me and annoys me at that moment. I'm thinking in particular of the beginning measures of Patti Smith's "Paths That Cross" from _Dream Of Life_. It's like fingernails down a chalkboard. Urg. And yet it's one of my favorite songs from the album. Go figure. Matt mentioned: >The prior time I went to this same shop, I was debating between Lisa >Germano's _geek the girl_, and the latest from Maryn Cadell. Do you mean _Bombazine_, or does Meryn have something new out now?!? Joanna inquired: >I have also seen mention of a Joni Mitchell tribute album here in >ecto. What is the title, how can I find a copy, etc.?? It's called _Back To The Garden_, and is a collection of Joni covers done by a plethora of Canadian musicians, including Martha And Tne Muffins ("Shades of Scarlet Conquering"), Sara Craig ("This Flight Tonight"), Universal Honey ("Carey"), Spirit of the West ("Coyote") and many more. It's a great compilation, put out on Intrepid Records, 205/65 Jefferson Ave, Toronto, ON, M6K 1Y3. Not sure if it's still in print -- anybody know about that? It's catalog # N21-00016, at any rate. Mitch recalled: >NPR had a story about an album called _Necessary Angels_, whose artist >escapes me, but it was made on the strength of donations from friends >after her label dumped her. Argh! *Who* was that? I am totally blanking... we probably have the album around here somewhere, but of course since I don't know the artist's name I don't know where to look! :P So, anybody I don't know about going to see the Innocence Mission at Fez tomorrow night? Footah, woj, and Mike Curry will be in our party tomorrow evening... surrounded by squid. Yerch. Listening to _Dream of Life_ now, since I mentioned it above. Sigh. It's been *too* long since I've listened to this! Got me through my frosh year of college, it did... +==========================================================================+ |Meredith Tarr meth@delphi.com| |Boonton, NJ USA finger info at: mtarr@eagle.wesleyan.edu| +==========================================================================+ | "if the truth isn't funny, what good is it? does reality have a duty to | | amuse us? did *anyone* else ever play Paranoia?" - veronica | +==========================================================================+ ------------------------------ From: Christopher Boek Date: Sat, 8 Jul 1995 15:34:01 +1000 (EST) Subject: Re: ASCAPIC in my soup Meth offers ... > > Anybody want some humidity? New Jersey has plenty to spare this evening. :P > I should be used to it by now, but it's rather offputting to have people complaining about the heat when I'm sitting shivering in a cold room in a big building trying desperately to absorb some of the warmth of the heater so that my knuckles don't seize up and prevent me from doing any of the work that drove me to come in on a Saturday anyway! There, that's better. I bet you never thought it cold down in sunny Aussieland. HA! (it's not as cold as holland though, I must admit) On a more music related note (what christo's posting something vaguely _on_ topic !?!) I found Max Sharam's CD single to Coma the other day, and it's great. I've always been drawn to 'Coma' itself - it reminds me a little of Suzanne Vega's ... umm ... what's it called ... 'Fat man and dancing girl' or something. In the way it goes from quiet to loud and back again. I like that, I'm a simple lad :). The two extra tracks on the Max single ('U Cradled Me' and 'Crash Landing') are great. Having heard them after the album, I can see how Anthony might have been a little disappointed, but I like them both. Speaking of which, does anybody want to swap something for Max's album ? I've got one from a planned swap that went awry (a very ecto word, awry) and have it just sitting around. (Marion, Marcel, anyone ??) Speaking of Australians, Albert's description of Margot Smith's album caused me to go and put it on again, and he's right. It is a wonderful album. And I've been listening to Jane Siberry a lot lately, mostly 'The Walking' and I've gotten hooked. I hope her new one get's released out here (it should - When I Was a Boy was a normal release here), from the report here it sounds like it will be good! All of her other stuff is hard to get here - maybe somebody would like to swap a Jane album for a Max one ?? And Tori's breath does bug me a bit, but not to the point where I'd not enjoy the music. Just occasionally it pops out and grinds away at my brain ... it seems as though all the effort of making what comes out sound so amazing is being wasted on the rather undignified way it's being sucked in ... hmmm ... And on that note (now that I've got my knuckles warmed up), it's back to work. Chris. - -- | ||| ||| | ||| ||| ||| | ||| ||| Christopher Boek - c.boek@ee.mu.oz.au | ||| ||| | ||| ||| ||| | ||| Dept Elec Eng Univ of Melbourne Australia | | | | | | | | | | Tel:(+613)- 344 7966(BH) 853 4296(AH) |___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|"I've got no room for a quote" CB 1994. ------------------------------ From: Greg Bossert Date: Sat, 8 Jul 95 4:18:09 EDT Subject: Ecto Digest Search I've added a program to the Ecto Archives to locate words, phrases and names in the Ecto digests. It's available via the Web from the Ecto Archive Web site at: Alas, it only works on the volume 2 digests for now -- Volume 1 is still a mess. I hope to have a full search soon... (The actual URL for the search form is , but in case that changes, it's better to get there from the 'home page' of the Ecto Archives. anyway, while you're there you can check out Klaus' latest edition of the Happy Rhodes Encyclopedia!) For those who care, it's a Perl5 CGI module+script that does a context grep (in Perl, so no command line cracker tricks to worry about) on a given list of files and builds up a HTML list of the results. The search pattern is either a literal string (with regexp characters escaped) or a Perl-style regular expression. The Perl library module and sample CGI script are available from me, if you have use for such a thing... foo*yawn*tah... - -+- greg bossert rutgers university network services -+- - -+- bossert@noc.rutgers.edu -+- - -+- http://www-ns.rutgers.edu/~bossert -+- - -+- i have never been afraid to change -- Happy -+- - -+- the circumstances of the world -- Rhodes -+- ------------------------------ From: "Bradley N. Hutchinson" Date: Sat, 8 Jul 95 11:40:50 EDT Subject: ann arbor Hi all, I'll be in Ann Arbor for a week helping out a potter friend who got into the big craft thingy. Jill and I were wondering if there are any ectophiles in the area who might want to hook up. We'll be entirely visualed out--one of the biggest shows in the country and we'll be looking for folks for Jill's gallery as well as helping Penny sell her pots--and might actually NEED a different form of diversion. So, if you live in Ann Arbor and want to meet or just want to suggest something/someplace for us to check out, please email me. Any restaruant, bookstore, music store recomendations are welcome as well! Oh yeah, we'll be coming in July 17th and leaving the following Sunday. brad - -- There is nothing in life except what one thinks of it. - --Wallace Stevens bhutchin@pen.k12.va.us ------------------------------ From: Ingrid Karklins Date: Sat, 8 Jul 95 17:18:53 CDT Subject: Necessary Angels Sarah Hickman.... ------------------------------ From: Neile Graham Date: Sat, 8 Jul 1995 18:13:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Apologies I'm sorry, I should have remembered that not everyone wants to hear about things ahead of time. I will try to remember, if I ever do this again, to put a big SPOILERS in the subject line. To those of you who would rather not have known anything about _Maria_ before August 15, my apologies. I just wasn't thinking. - --Neile Graham neile@u.washington.edu ------------------------------ From: Robert Lovejoy Date: Sat, 8 Jul 1995 22:51:13 -0400 Subject: Breathing and more The breathing thread brings to mind something I noticed when I got my new SWR bass amp: The increased treble response made my less than perfect fingering technique more audible in the form of noisy slides between notes. I have managed to repair my technique a lot. Audible breathing is similarly a question of technique, and some singers may decide that it is not bothersome, while others may work on supressing the "noise". I have been toying with the idea of sending in an HBP tape of music made by my son and a friend of his. It's just that I feel he's a better guitarist than she a singer; not that she's a bad singer, just untrained. When they recorded at Modern, the engineer spent a lot of time removing her gasps from the recording! Anyway, many thanks again to Sue Trowbridge for posting the musical guests! I for one am all atwitter (?) at the prospect of seeing Joan Osborne Monday night on Letterman. Tape is to be rolling! Also, Steve Ito points out Jewel is to be featured on MuchMusic's "Break This" on the 11th. That too will be taped. As I've yet to hear Jewel, I'm also looking forward to that. It's a glorious time in which to have partially mastered videophonic magnetic coercivity. Robert the half crazed engineer. ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V2 #152 ************************** ======================================================================== Please send any questions or comments about the list to ecto-owner@nsmx.rutgers.edu