From: owner-ecto-digest To: ecto-digest@ns2.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto-digest V2 #130 Reply-To: ecto@nsmx.rutgers.edu Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Monday, 12 June 1995 Volume 02 : Number 130 The Ecto digest is now being generated automatically. Please send problems and questions to: ecto-owner@nsmx.rutgers.edu. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Neal Copperman Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 00:05:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Postscript - the role of the fan I recently got in the mail an article on Betty (thanks Jeff!) that had this interesting pragraph near the end. I thought it made a nice addition to the discussions of whether a fan should relay negative comments to a band or keep their mouth shut. Some felt that the artist, who ideally should be following their own muse, shouldn't have any interest in anyone else's opinions. "Somewhat tired of being 'truly alternative' (i.e. non-commerical), Betty hopes to lure a big label deal with its next batch of songs, which [Amy] Ziff describes as being 'more accessible, yet not compromising.'" Hmmmph, had I read that first, I would have been able to summon the nerve to speak my mind. Since commercial appeal was apparently the goal, I think it would be reasonable to point out that the music was much less appealing to those of us that liked the previous music. I'd be surprised if a record label got excited about the pedestrian uninspired new batch of songs, but maybe they'll get their hoped for tv show instead. Neal ------------------------------ From: Michael Matthews Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 03:30:10 -0400 Subject: Today's your birthday, friend... i*i*i*i*i*i i*i*i*i*i*i *************** *****HAPPY********* **************BIRTHDAY********* *************************************************** *************************************************************************** ******* Joerg Plate (Joerg.Plate@arbi.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de) ******** *************************************************************************** -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Joerg Plate Mon June 12 1967 Gemini Chris Montville Tue June 13 1978 Gemini Mark R. Susskind Wed June 15 1966 Gemini Mike Matthews Mon June 16 1969 SAFH Albert Philipsen Mon June 17 1968 Gemini Neal R. Copperman Thu June 17 1965 Gemini Ecto-The Mailing List Tue June 18 1991 Fuzzy blue Tracy Barber Mon June 18 1956 Gemini David Lubkin Fri June 20 1958 OurLady Marisa Wood Fri June 20 1969 Gemini Cheri Villines Sun June 20 1965 Gemini-Pisces Ray Misra Sat June 20 1970 Gemini Nik Popa Sun June 22 1969 Cancer Teresa VanDyne Thu June 23 1960 Cancer Dave Torok Mon June 24 1968 Cancer Ethan Straffin Thu June 24 1971 Cancer Kevin Dekan Mon June 27 1960 Cancer BunkyTom Tue July 02 1968 Cancer Anders Hallberg Tue July 03 1962 Cancer Kevin Harkins Thu July 05 1973 Cancer Laurel Krahn Mon July 05 1971 Cancer Jim Gurley Mon July 06 1959 Cancer Courtney Dallas Fri July 09 1971 Catte Michael Peskura Sat July 09 1949 HallOfFamer Finney T. Tsai Sat July 09 1966 Cancer - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ From: Marion Kippers Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 13:05:29 +0200 Subject: Loreena gathering in the Netherlands Hi all, On Saturday 1 July there will be an international Dutch/ Belgian/fill-in-your-country-here Loreena McKennitt gathering at my place in Dordrecht, the Netherlands. So far we're with 4 or 5 people, and if any Ectophiles are interested in coming, you're more than welcome as well. You can e-mail me for more information. Best wishes, Marion ______________________________________________________________ Marion Kippers Wolters Kluwer Academic Publishers Automation Department Dordrecht, The Netherlands Marion.Kippers@wkap.nl "Leave the shadows dancing..." (OP) ______________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ From: "Matt Bittner" Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 07:13:56 +0000 Subject: Well, it's about time, last part... She gets "closed" and moved to a recovery room. I'm allowed again to go see the baby. IV and electrical probes sticking out, I was so depressed. Having a baby is supposed to be such a great experience. Not this time. Turns out the baby was still running a little fever, but the doctor thinks its mainly due to the stress and strain of the delivery, as well as my wife having a fever. They performed a urine and blood test, as well as a spinal tap. All three were luckily negative. The baby's going to be okay, but they want the antibiotics to run their full course, so he has to stay until Sunday, the 11th. Since mom had to have her post-natal doctor visit this morning, Monday the 12th, and the little tike had to have one more "state required" blood test, they won't be home in Omaha until tonight. Oh yea, about me. I had to stay with the movers while they packed the house last Tuesday, then load it Wednesday. Big problem, since I wasn't able to see our baby for but a few hours each day. Thursday I had to come home to Omaha, so I wasn't able to see the tike then. I haven't seen the baby since Wednesday night. I'm still an emotional wreck, but haven't had the time to just sit down and let it all out. Friday the movers came to the new house to unload, my in-law family came over Friday, Saturday and Sunday to help unpack (Great People!). I've had a couple of hours to myself - and my dog - Saturday and last night. Egads, Murphy sucks. One other thing. Throughout the trips back and forth to the hospital I listened to suddenly, tammy!'s debut on spinART, so that helped immensley (sp?)! One last thing before I go. Aaron Matthew, born 7:48pm, 4 June 1995, was 8 lbs, 6 oz, and 21 inches long. So, it looks like my Happy Jewel is an Aaron Matthew! I am so excited, and can't wait to have fun with my son! Matt Bittner meba@cso.com Omaha, Nebraska "Yoddle-yay-hee-NARF!" ------------------------------ From: "Matt Bittner" Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 06:55:21 +0000 Subject: Well, the time has come... Never EVER assume things are going to go the way you planned. We had it all planned. The baby would be born the first weekend of June (normally), and then all could go as planned with the "official" move from Des Moines to Omaha. HA! Murphy laughs in my face. I got a call late Thursday night: my wife was having steady and constant contractions. Well, after a two hour drive from Omaha to Des Moines, I arrived, only to have them stop. Great. Friday comes, she has some steady, constant contractions, then nothing. Will it ever cease? Well, yes, it will. Sunday morning - about 12:40 am - she wakes me up, and said they're three minutes apart. Great! A baby will be born. We arrived at the hospital, not sure if this was the real thing or not, not sure if the hospital will keep her. Yes, the nurse thought the contractions were often enough, as well as strong enough to warrant a stay. Cool! HA! About 4:30 am, everything stopped. Doctor calls about 8:00 am, telling the nurse to induce (with a drug call pitosin (sp?)), and also says he'll be in in a while. Well, 8:30 rolls around, and the doctor shows up! Much earlier than expected, and breaks her water. YES! Now only it's a matter of time... (I'm breaking this message up for space purposes. The last part I will tell everybody what type of Happy Jewel she had) Matt Bittner meba@cso.com Omaha, Nebraska "Yoddle-yay-hee-NARF!" ------------------------------ From: "Matt Bittner" Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 07:03:27 +0000 Subject: Well, it's about time, pt. 2... Labor goes - strongly - from 9:00am until 6:00pm. By the time the baby is born, my wife will have been in some type of labor for 24 hours. I felt so useless. Anyway, sometime around 2:00pm and 4:00pm, she starts running a fever. Her white count is up. No idea what the problem is. 6:00pm, the nursing staff performs a medical test - she has a type b strep of the cervix. Not good. 6:30pm the doctor decides to perform a c-section. Great, as if everything else wasn't going well. I'm told to "suit up", and they wheel her to the surgical room. By then I'm a nervous wreck. I was worried so much for both my wife and the baby. I wanted to just break down then and there, but knew I had to be strong for the both of them. The c-section goes normally, but her fever doesn't help her. Although it was a normal c-section, it was very difficult on her. At 7:48pm, the baby is delivered. Unfortunatly, they had to take the baby to intensive care: running a fever, and the staff needed to start antibiotics. Needless to say, emotionally I was a wreck, but still didn't break down. I "escorted" the baby to IC, then went back to my wife to hold her hand and tell her the baby was doing ok. (On to the next part...) Matt Bittner meba@cso.com Omaha, Nebraska "Yoddle-yay-hee-NARF!" ------------------------------ From: "Joseph Zitt" Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 07:51:57 +0000 Subject: Re: Philadelphia: Threat or Menace? Robert Lovejoy writes: > Jill Sobule and Joan Osborne will be performing at 30th Street Station. > It's an early event, like late afternoon or early evening (maybe > 7-9pm?)(5-7?), and I Wonder about the acoustics there, but it's for a local > AIDS awareness group. I think I read a donation of $5 would be > appreciated... I've heard music there, and assuming you're pretty close to the band, the acoustics are pretty clear. OTOH, one of the most wonderful things I have ever heard was the sound of a jazz band, experienced from a far end of the station. With the cavernous reverb, it turned into an ambient sound like a very thick Eno album. - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ==== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Organizer, SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List \|| |/ Online Representative, Austin International Poetry Festival \| / Joe Zitt's Home Page\ ------------------------------ From: JC214@aol.com Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 10:23:10 -0400 Subject: natalie is coming... hello all! to give you an idea of how far behind i am in my life, this morning i finally picked up the may 20th issue of billboard to read and what do i see but an article on natalie and "tigerlily". it's kind of long to post but if anyone wants me to i will - probably not until december though :-} briefly it says that the album hits the stores on june 20, the first single is "carnival", a u.s. tour starts late august, the band consists of: jennifer turner, guitar (who is incredible btw) and peter yanowitz ,drums and barrie maguire (eve of destruction?! ) on bass, both of whom were in the wallflowers. the article goes on to interview natalie re:album title, name of her new publishing company (indian love bride as opposed to christian burial), her break with 10k maniacs (which she compares to an "arranged" marrriage!), and how she paid for the entire project herself! joe just informed me that rolling stone gave the album one and a half stars. well i thought that the songs were very good live and that stupid magazine's opinion is not stopping me from buying it! so there! does anybody out there ever buy "volume" the cd/magazine? i just got number 13 and it has tracks by julianna hatfield ("waves"), throwing muses ("hillbilly") and heather nova ('maybe an angel" acoustic version). also got an advance copy of "post" by bjork. great album!!!! thats all for now! chuck ------------------------------ From: mojzes@monet.vill.edu (brni) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 95 11:03:41 EDT Subject: fred smith hi all, >in Ann Arbor, MI when The Ark hosted a memorial for Patti's late husband, >Fred "Sonic" Smith. Patti invited Caroline to perform solo and accompany her > oh no. i didn't realize that he'd died. any news about what happened? >e-mail me. It is a real treat to see Patti Smith perform ! Any die-hard >Patti Smith fans willing to travel for the show and need accomodations for >overnight are welcome to contact me. > if only i could afford a couple of days of excess travel....sigh. alas, i must go without. brni >Lynn Garrett > ------------------------------ From: "Matt Bittner" Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 11:01:15 +0000 Subject: Concerts, you lucky dogs... This part of the midwest - at times - sucks. All you lucky east coasters. Jewel, Jill Sobule, Mae Moore, etc., etc. What do we get here? Not much. Yes, disappear fear was here this past Thursday (with all the family "distress", I was unable to go), but besides that, nothing. There is too much testasterone in the entertainment "industry" here. It quite sucks! If you like the latest male-led bands - and don't mind hearing the same SHIT over and over again - then Omaha is the place for you. I am now missing KFMG of Des Moines. Although not perfect, they tended to play more intelligent music. I am sick of - and can't understand why so many people enjoy - Pearl Jam. You can't go a half-hour in this town without hearing one of their "oh woe is me" songs. My apologies if you like Toe-uh-Pearl Jam. I'm am just sick, sick, sick... And hopefully, my son won't listen to it either:-)! Matt Bittner meba@cso.com Omaha, Nebraska "Yoddle-yay-hee-NARF!" ------------------------------ From: mojzes@monet.vill.edu (brni) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 95 12:17:38 EDT Subject: the Esteemed Mr. Dolby hi all. this is long, since i'm responding to everyone at once. i tried to cut out as much as possible, for your viewing pleasure. >From: mklprc@teleport.com (Michael Pearce) >Mike Mendelson writes, >> 10) Thomas Dolby - The Gate to the Mind's Eye -- put Dolby's name on >> it and I'm buying it. What is the video like? > >Did you get Aliens Ate My Buick? That was one of the worst records of his >career, if not the year. I wondered if he recovered from that disaster. I >could not even get the used-CD shops to take it; so many people were trying >to return it. Great cover, though. > _aliens_ was a real departure, but it had some really fine music on it. first time i listened to it i just couldn't believe that it was the esteemed Mr. Dolby, but i listened to it a couple more times and decided that it was brilliant. _astronauts and heretics_ didn't fare as well under repeated listenings, alas. it sounded nice, got the ol' dolby groove from the first album back, but was, well...boring. >------------------------------ > >From: Michael Stevens >_Aliens_ suffered from an overwhelming outburst of misogynism and >bitterness, which is not characteristic of the rest of his work. The >first thing I said when I heard "Key to Your Ferrari" and "Airhead" was >"Sounds like six girlfriends dumped him at the same time." :-( > hmmmm...i never thought of "key to your ferrari" as misogynistic. it has a great bass line, moves really well, and really rips into the (primarily) male obsession with his car. "airhead" i'll agree with you on, and while some of the lines are funny, the only version that i really liked was the one i saw in concert. his female backup singer, in the middle of the song, broke into this long long rap about airheaded men, stupid boys, and so on, including the esteemed Mr. Dolby. >------------------------------ > >(present company excluded, of course). There are a few extras that make the >album a must for collectors: "Urges" and "Leipzig" (heretofore not released on >CD, I believe), and the 7" mix of "Airwaves." The rest is a good collection of >songs (all of which I already had on his other albums, though). > >- -Sam > i have a tape that a friend made for me with the Esteemed Mr. Dolby's first album (original cut) and Ms. Vega's first album: he titled it -- "Dolby and Vega: Alone and Not Together." "Leipzig" is, imho, one of dolby's best songs to date. >------------------------------ > >From: Ingrid Karklins >For what it's worth, Dolby's Ability to Swing has been a long-time >favorite of mine. It had (believe it or not) a big influence on the >song "Big One/Little One" > cool--*after* i find a place to live, pay the deposit and rent, get both me and linda moved, find out how much jesse's grown and get him new clothes, and find out how much utilities on a house in the 'burbs cost, i'll have to pick up a copy of this! it'll be a high priority purchase. :) >------------------------------ > >From: neilg@sfu.ca (Neil K.) >me that not all pop music was necessarily awful. But Flat Earth is kinda >uneven and his other two albums don't really do much for me. Maybe it's >that English talent moving to Hollywood and transmogrifying into a >vegetable thing. ;) > i've always felt that _the Flat Earth_ was his best. but then, i like lots of textures in music, and TFE has no lack of that. >--------------- > >From: woj >_aliens..._ was a shock, but i get a kick out of it every now and >then. we used to sing along on the air when i played "airhead" during >radio shows, except that we would substitute the names of local >sororities for "a airhead" in the chorus. ;) > _aliens_ came out after he'd been out of commission for a long time because of a dispute over his name. apparently Dolby Noise Reduction felt that someone might get them confused with Thomas Dolby and accidentally purchase an album when they wanted a tape deck, and so they sued. the esteemed Mr. Dolby had to suspend all recording work for the duration of the trial, which lasted several years. _aliens_ seemed to me to be a "see, i can do anything" album. "see, i can sound like prince." "see, i can play cool jazz." "see, i can sound like..." and so on... i think that every song on that album was an attempt to write a song in another musician's style, and to do it better than they would. well, anyone who read this far *has* to be interested in the Esteemed Mr. Dolby's work. For these people, i will recommend some rather obscure early recordings that include Herr Dolby. Local Heroes SW9 -- _New Opium_, featuring Kev Armstrong, has "Tom Dolby" playing keyboards on several tracks. 1981. Oval Records. Bruce Wooley and the Camera Club, includes Bruce Wooley on vox, Tom Dolby on keyboards, and also includes Trevor Horn and Geoff Downes (who later formed the Buggles, then joined Yes, quit Yes, reformed the Buggles, broke up the Buggles and separately became involved in (respectively) The Art of Noise and Asia). 'fraid i don't have any further info on the BW album--i just have a tape of it, since it was already a cutout when my friend dave discovered it. thats enough, already. brni ------------------------------ From: mojzes@monet.vill.edu (brni) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 95 12:48:20 EDT Subject: stickstuff hi ho, i'm just a verbose lil' bunny today, it seems. before i go on and on...can anyone tell me what they think of the most recent throwing muses stuff? the last album of theirs that i got was _red heaven_, which was not interesting at all (which is a shame, since i think that all the albums before that were some of the best music to come out in many long years). >As long as I'm here, I just saw King Crimson twice last week and they were >absolutely incredible! If anyone has a chance to see them, GO! Can anyone >here (like brni) tell me a little about the Chapman stick? I'd heard about it >for a long time, but I hadn't actually seen one before. It looks impossible to >play. Just how many strings does that thing have on it anyway? And what's the >difference between the stick that Trey Gunn plays (which has a body) and the >one that Tony Levin plays (which doesn't)? And how did those guys get to be so >cool anyway? > before i forget...damn...where is this...AHA! on the floor.. (where else?) ok, here goes: ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/va/vance/stick.html sometimes it takes a couple times to connect, it seems, but there is more info there on the Chapman Stick than you can, uh...shake a stick at... (sorry) ok, there are several kinds of sticks. tenor stick has all melody strings and is usually 6 or 8 strings. bass stick has, i believe, 6 strings, all bass notes. the standard stick (which i have) has 10 strings...5 bass and 5 melody. its range is from below that of an electric bass to the top notes of a guitar. more on this one later... the Grand Stick has 12 strings, and comes in 5 bass string and 6 bass string varieties. there is also a MIDI stick, which sends midi signals rather than analog signals, but it is very rare (10 or 12 made so far). some of the early sticks had bodies; most of the newer ones don't. the first stick looked kind of like a gourd...bulbous body with a thick neck and (i think) 8 strings. it has changed much since then. the stick is usually made out of ironwood (an extinct tree) or a very dense plastic. since i bought mine used, i had to settle for the plastic one. sigh. there are 2 pickups, one for bass strings, one for melody, and each has it's own output, ideally going to a bass amp for the bass strings and to a guitar or keyboard amp for the treble strings. the melody strings are tuned in "uniform descending fourth intervals", starting at D above middle C and going down to F#. The 6th string is the lowest bass string (which makes it completely opposite playing a bass) and the bass strings are tuned in uniform ascending fifth intervals, with the lowest open note being a C below the lowest E on a bass. in other words: its impossible to play. how did gunn and levin get to be so cool? by doing the impossible. >Tamar brni ------------------------------ From: "Chandra L. Sriram" Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 12:35:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: stuff two quasi-ecto questions: does anyone know when the lisa gerrard solo album will be coming out? the dcd web page says june 27th, but someone posted (here, i think) that it would be delayed till fall. help! also, does anyone know what's up with this new cocteau album/ eps to be? the web page for them asserts there will be an ep out by the end of the summer, and an ap and album by the end of the year. can anyone who is still on the 4ad line add aything? i know, i should have stayed on it, but couldn't bear the volume or the flames. :-0 thanks, chandra ------------------------------ From: Jeffrey Hanson Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 10:20:55 -0700 Subject: Mae Moore Well, last night I went to see Mae Moore put on a lively show at the Coach House San Diego. It was a rather strange night. First of all, the Coach House is a club that rips you off by requiring a two-drink minimum, and dinner reservations for the best seats. Dinner is a minimum 7.95 purchase (per person). Well, after the two of us had an appetizer (chips & salsa), two steak dinners (of overcooked grisly steak with the worst rice I've ever had), and 6 sea breezes, the total was $64. What promised to be an inexpensive concert (tix were only $8), proved otherwise. But it was still fun. Because dinner reservations are first come first served, we decided to show up at the club when they opened--at 6:00. Well, we were late, arrived at 6:20, and were the first people there. And remained the only people there until almost 7:00. Because my friend, Susan, and I were having a deep meaningful conversation and sitting up front and center, we didn't want to be interrupted by having someone sit down right next to us. So Susan, a Wiccan, said a little spell to keep the few people beginning to trickle in from sitting next us. It evidently worked--I don't think anyone except our waitress and Mae ever came within three feet of us. It was kind of strange, but nice--especially after being crushed in a sweaty mob at the same venue at a Missing Persons concert. Anyway, 8:00 rolled around, and the first act, Carlos Olmeda came on. He's a local singer-songwriter--who was actually quite good. He played guitar and had two percussionists. It was an interesting mix, nothing earth-shattering, but interesting. He had a real cool personality too, and as many of his songs mixed Spanish and English, he asked how many in the crowd spoke Spanish. Only about one person raised their hand, so he kept kidding around and saying--ok, this song is about going to the taco stand and ordering a burrito--and see if you canfigure out the rest of my order. Well, I know enough Spanish to know that that's not what he was singing about, but he was pretty funny. One of the best songs was about being 3 years old and fallinng in love with the baby-sitter. The next act was Essey, the singer who has taken over Jewel's Thursday night spot at the Inner Change. Well, seeing her, sure makes me appreciate Jewel. (By the way Steve, I haven't heard the nikos song!). She plays acoustic guitar and had a bass guitar player with her. Her voice is OK, but nothing spectacular, and her songwriting had a lot to be desired. It would improve greatly if she deleted the word "baby" from her vocabulary. And the line, "I'm a complicated thinker" made me burst out laughing-- because her heavily moosed long hair, overly made-up face, and tight jeans gave a totally different message. Not to be overly harsh--it takes a lot of guts to get up in front of a crowd, to write the songs that you pour your heart into, etc., but it sure makes you realize that there are some who have it (ala Jewel), and some who just never will. Then Mae Moore came on (wearing pigtails--what is this--the new thing for female singers?), and did a very solid set. Her voice is stronger than evidenced on her albums, and she rocked out more than I expected. She's got a great personality, and really seemed to be enjoying herself. I have the setlist written down at home if anyone's interested. But she basically covered everything off the new album, and 4-or 5 off of Bohemia, nothign off of Oceanview Motel and no covers. After the show I was able to talk to her a bit and she was quite gracious. I wished her luck at the Ben and Jerry festival and she was amazed I knew about it as she signed up for it just a few days ago. So I told her I heard about it at the Internet, and she introduced me to a Sony rep who wanted to hear more and asked if I'd checked out their WEb site. He was quite the nice guy, so I told him about ecto and Happy. Maybe we'll be hearing more from him. Anyway, as we were talking to Mae, Essey came over and introduced her to Joy Eden Harrison--another local artist (who has a great jazz album out by the way). Joy, who's now living in LA, had come down after reading a write up about Mae in the LA Times. Then, after all this, we were getting ready to leave and went out to my car to a dead battery--so not all only was I able to talk to Mae and Joy and others, I then got to ask them all if they had jumper cables! Unfortunately, musicians are not very automotively equipped people, so I had to call a tow truck to come and jumpstart my car. Oh well. Glad my insurance covers it--it makes me feel better about paying those ridiculous premiums! So, it was a pretty fun night, and Mae puts on a pretty good show. I think i like her more as a person than a performer though. I wasn't overly wowed by any of the songs--of course, sitting where we were, so close to the stage, we could hear the drums real well, but the vocals were a little bit lost, and I spent most of the night trying to lip-read to understand and pick out the lyrics--kind of hard since Mae sings right into the microphone. The band all looked to be enjoying themselves, and it was a very good show--but it wasn't one of the best Ive seen. As I'm largely unfamiliar with the new album, most of the songs kind of blended together after a while--as the first album did until after quite a few listens. Jeff Hanson ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V2 #130 ************************** ======================================================================== Please send any questions or comments about the list to ecto-owner@nsmx.rutgers.edu