From: owner-ecto-digest To: ecto-digest@ns2.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto-digest V2 #56 Reply-To: ecto@nsmx.rutgers.edu Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Tuesday, 21 March 1995 Volume 02 : Number 056 The Ecto digest is now being generated automatically. Please send problems and questions to: ecto-owner@nsmx.rutgers.edu. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Irvin Fei-Chiang Lin Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 23:35:31 -0600 (GMT-0600) Subject: Pj harvey. well i will voice some opposing views on miss polly jean harvey and her new album. i really can't stand the production. when i listen to the album it is sooooo slick and so FLOOD produced (he did nine inch nails and the album in my mind sound like it). It has that heavey industrial slick sound (pounding bass, rhythmic noises) through out it. this isn't to say i totally dislike it. i can see why someone who has never heard earlier PJH might be attracted to the album (to bring you my love). I for one like rid of me (though again the production annoyed me...give me DRY anyday). *sigh* i guess i jsut miss the crunchy guitars and primal screams. ah well...it is new PJH and for that i am happy. I hate it when artists take three or four years to put something out (hello KaTE?). But i guess i would rather have a REALLY good album over a couple of mediocre ones. Unfortunately i don't think TBYML is REALLY good. hope it grows on me. hope PJH will do another 4 track demo release. i would love to hear what TBYML sounded like before FLOOD got his goofy hands on it. (sorry to all those industrial/NIN fans, i like NIN but not to the extent that i like early PJH). irvin ------------------------------ From: WretchAwry Date: Tue, 21 Mar 95 1:33:50 EST Subject: Re: male vocalists, artists of color. Jeffy quoted Irvin: > >couple of questions. I know that ecto revolves around female= > >vocalists but i was wondering if there were any male vocalists that > >people would consider 'honorary ecto music.' Interesting point Irvin! Male vocalists are discussed here, but yeah, not nearly to the extent of female vocalists. Peter Gabriel is my personal favorite ectoguy, but then, I've been into his music since 1973, and became a Kate fan through him, so he's godder than god :-) Needless to say, I'm also into old Gabriel Genesis. (Even non-Gabriel Genesis, but mainly up to Abacab.) The closest ectoish male artist to Peter Gabriel, who doesn't get that much talk for some reason, is David Sylvian. I'm not a fan myself, but that has nothing to do with him personally. At the right time, the right place, and in the right frame of mind, I might have gotten into his music as much as Peter's. Perhaps other Ectophiles who are into Sylvian will speak up and recommend albums. Todd Rundgren is another musical genius that's definitely ecto-ish, I believe. How about Bryan Ferry? Brian Eno? Jeff Buckley? I'm not the one to ask, though I have the highest respect for men in the music business. It's just not my thing. Non-ectophilic-ish, but important to me: I'm an unapologetic, besotted, old Camper Van Beethoven fan. I also like XTC, Robyn Hitchcock, Ravi Shankar, Trilock Gurtu, Boiled In Lead, Youssou N'Dour, Cheb Khaled, The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Tom Waits, T Rex and lots more. It's just that Peter Gabriel is the only male artist that I keep up with currently. I'm loyal, but he's earned my loyalty. Jeffy: > Ecto, I'd have to say, was rather strongly > influenced at the beginning by Vickie Mapes (who I'd guess was > singlehandedly responsible for getting every one of the 8 or 10 charter > subscribers to what became Ecto into Happy's music). (blush) > Vickie had, for a > while, a radio show called _Suspended in Gaffa_. She played only stuff by > women or sung by women, and she tried to stay out of the mainstream. It > was not, she felt, that there weren't any male artists she wanted to play, > but rather that they had their own forum and it was grossly out of > proportion to the forum that women got. SiG was her attempt to help > rectify that. No boyz with guitarz. The good old days. > She also said on her final broadcast, that she had to admit to > liking/respecting Madonna (I think it was Madonna: she might have > also or otherwise mentioned Janet Jackson), I don't believe I ever played or mentioned Janet Jackson, but yeah, I do like, admire and respect Madonna. > but pointed out that Madonna had no trouble > getting airplay, while all these great talents > (like Happy, Jane, Victoria, ad infinitum) were being > virtually ignored in the US. True. In all the years I did SiG, I can only remember playing 3 Madonna songs, "Love Don't Live Here Anymore," "Dear Jessie" and "Act Of Contrition" while I played Happy, Jane, Kate, Victoria endlessly, along with tons of other women not well-known. > Ecto is a lot like that, in my opinion... Yep. (But even on SiG I did an occasional Duet Set and even a couple of co-ed shows.) > >I have also noticed that ecto seems to me a description of white > >female musicians. Not to say that everyone only listens to ecto music or > >music put out by white musicians, but has anyone discussed any artist of > >color on this list? just wondering. > Define that silly term "artist of color," please. Are you talking of > ethnicity or skin color or homeland, or some combination of the three? > > Hang around long enough and you'll see everything discussed at one time or > another. > > Hmm, non-white folks mentioned on ecto off the to of my head: what about > Sheila Chandra, Aster Aweke, Neneh Cherry, Tracy Chapman, Betty (or do they > not count since the band is only 1/3 'of color'?). Isnt' Tanita Tikaram > non-caucasian? Zap Mama, as I recall, is, or is largely, black. > > The sort of folks who write and perform ecto-ish music tend to be white, > but skin color is certainly not a prerequisite for being a topic of > discussion! Jeffy's right, but I understand Irvin's question too. I like all the people Jeff mentioned, and more. Vickie ------------------------------ From: Michael Colford Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 07:42:02 -0500 (EST) Subject: Male artists/ecto Well, I was going to start this post about male artists who have been discussed on ecto or should be by mentioning Nine inch nails, who isn't exactly ecto-fodder, but has been discussed here until I read Irvin's post about PJ Harvey's new album and his disappointment in it due to it's NINish sound (courtesy of Flood.) (Whew!) At any rate, Trent Reznor and co. are an example of male music discussed here. Additionally, Canadian band Spirit of the West got a bit of bandwidth last year regarding their superb album, Faithlift. I think Daniel Lanois is occassionally mentioned, and he is quite good. I will offer two who I haven't seen mentioned (but may have been from time to time) who I think are definitely worth checking out. First there's Bob Mould/Sugar. Not exactly ecto fare, although his solo acoustic stuff isn't too far off, Bob's worth a listen. As you all probably know, Bob is an alum from that seminal punk outfit, Husker Du. His work with Sugar is just as driving and crunchy, but with great lyrics and a pop sensibility. As I mentioned above, his acoustic solo stuff is great. (He'll be in Boston soon on a solo acoustic tour.) Another male band that I love is Kitchens of Distinction. (This British trio opened for Suzanne Vega on her last tour, is that close enough to an ecto type to give them honorable ecto status?) Their music is wall of sound, guitar pop, incredibly lush and very hooky. Their lead vocalist is gay and writes incredilbe songs about longing and love that are quite universal in theme. Check them out if you haven't, definitely worthwhile. Off to see Sarah and Paula tonight! I'm really thrilled to see Paula Cole live since it will be a first and I love her album. Michael -------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Colford | Reading Public Library | Reading, Massachusetts colford@noble.mass.edu | *North of Boston Library Exchange* -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: elionwyr@onix.com (Lewars Dusti L.) Date: Mon, 20 Mar 95 12:32:58 EST Subject: of De Lint and such (Quick little note to start off: I'm so sorry I didn't find y'all sooner! I can't tell you how much I'm getting out of Ecto already!) (I'm probably going to be jumping around a little as far as topics go - apologies in advance.) About Sarah Brightman: The only other solo album I know of besides "Dive" is "The Songs That Got Away" - it's a collection of West End/Broadway songs that for one reason or another never really made it to the stage or the public ear. (It's an album done with now-ex-husband Andrew Lloyed Webber.) To Irvin Fei-Chiang Lin, who asked if Ecto deals with anyone who's not white and female: This question has already been answered pretty well, I think - I'd add Paula Cole to the list as someone who's been mentioned a lot of late and is not white (side-note: No, Tanita Tikarem isn't, either..and I personally would LOVE to see her sing something with Paula, Just Because.). And..is Toni Childs considered Ecto music? If so, put her on the non-white list. :) (Her "Union" album is one of my all-time favs.) To: The Olive-Loaf Vigilante: (That name just makes me smile) MA> _War For The Oaks_ didn't pack the same punch as Baudino's A> _Gossamer Axe_, Well..no, it doesn't - "Gossamer" has a whole different "high fantasy" atmosphere - but I confess to being a little more in love with "War", maybe because I found it first. I've forced that book on most of my friends at this point with positive results. - Side-note: have you heard Gael's harping tape "For Martha"? It's quite lovely. As far as Emma goes, I also really like that she and Will have been involved in the Elsewhere universe - some really good work being put out around that world, I think! And..how did Will do in his political campaign, anyone know? AND...no, I know you didn't write this part, but what the hey!...the movie still lives, eh? THat's good to hear. I've not heard from Steeldragon for some time now, so had wondered. Man, if there was ever a reason to pack up and move to Minneapolis, this movie alone might be it! :) Actually, since I'm going in this vein..Laurel Krahn wrote: MA> I had the pleasure of seeing Emma and her husband Will Shetterly > on St. Patties day. They were at the annual Boiled in Lead show > at First Avenue in Minneapolis. Then the Flash Girls had a gig ar. Alas, I only caught 2 songs from their set at the Uptown. I'm wildly jealous. :) Boiled in Lead is always so much fun - I've caught their last two Philly shows and think the world of them. Any idea on what happened to Cats Laughing? Did it just kinda fade off with Adam's move to BiL and Emma's creation of the Flash Girls? And how are FG in concert? (Catching 2 songs is more than I can claim!) *Sigh* I keep wishing they'd do some sort of mini-tour...I'm still heartbroken that Emma was at PhilCon a few years back and I didn't find out until weeks afterwards. :( You also wrote: MA> Though I agree with some of the FOurth Street crowd... who thinks MA> some of his books lack a certain... something. Indefinable A> quality. But they occasionally let me down. Or seem like they A> could be better. Actually..sometimes I've felt the same thing. Of late, his books seem to have gotten richer, but for a while - like, between the Jack books and the last few - I was left feeling like it was almost "watered down" work, in some way. Like maybe he was working too fast to put enough life into them. It's hard to put into words. Like, I do love "The Dreaming Place," but it didn't feel "deep" enough to me. If you know what I mean. Has he ever considered putting HIS music to tape or CD? I'm so very curious as to how his work sounds. Oh..one more comment to Olive-Loaf.. MA> Basically, Sarah McLachlan has the best live show currently on MA> tour, hands down. If you're lucky enough to have tickets to see MA> her before the tour ends once and for all, you're in for a MA> treat, even if you've seen this tour before. Fully agreed. I've actually had the really good luck to see her..what, 3 -4 times this tour (I think she's hit Philly that often, but I'm not sure), and each time is a new delight. I do some sound work for a local band, and I've already warned them that if they ever go on tour, they HAVE to go see Sarah if only to observe what can be done with lights. I can't believe how exceptional her lighting is. (Another side-note: Am I posting too much? If so, please tell me - I'm still not sure about What's Considered Proper here, and I don't want to break any rules. Well..at least not yet! These list-responses seem to be the best option since I'm reading y'all as a digest, but..if it's causing a problem, PLEASE let me know!) --<--<--@ Elionwyr @-->-->-- "I have spread my dreams under your feet; tread softly, for you tread upon my dreams..." ------------------------------ From: fleur@iglou.com (Joanna Phillips) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 08:16:57 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: male vocalists, artists of color. Irvin said: >couple of questions. I know that ecto revolves around female= >vocalists but i was wondering if there were any male vocalists that >people would consider 'honorary ecto music.' Sting can sound rather ethereal at times....the song "When We Dance" keeps going through my head... - -jo- - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joanna M. Phillips | "...And into midnight's tapestry she fades ragged fleur@iglou.com | and wild/Hunting down her ancestry in the costume fleur@genie.geis.com | of a Persian child." -- Joan Baez ------------------------------ From: bittnerme@phibred.com (Matt Bittner) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 07:58:42 -0600 Subject: My two cents... If checking out possible "male ecto's": Matthew Sweet. Although I have yet to purchase a disc, everything I've heard is quite wonderful, and has some definite "ecto-ish" lyrics. Non-ectoish woman to listen to: Sue Foley. Wonderful blues. Rivals many people when it comes to playing some mean blues guitar. Which reminds me, I need to get her latest disc. I have her first (which the name escapes me), and it very impressive. I do need to see her live. Matt Bittner one more week at bittnerme@phibred.com ------------------------------ From: lakrahn@iw.net (Laurel Krahn) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 10:15:42 -0600 Subject: Re: of De Lint and such elionwyr@onix.com wrote: >To: The Olive-Loaf Vigilante: (That name just makes me smile) >MA> _War For The Oaks_ didn't pack the same punch as Baudino's >A> _Gossamer Axe_, > >Well..no, it doesn't - "Gossamer" has a whole different "high fantasy" >atmosphere - but I confess to being a little more in love with "War", >maybe because I found it first. I've forced that book on most of my >friends at this point with positive results. - Side-note: have you heard >Gael's harping tape "For Martha"? It's quite lovely. I also prefer "War for the Oaks" over "Gossamer Axe". But it may be for sentimental reasons... "Oaks" being in Minneapolis, featuring familiar people and places and music. Still, I think I would have prefered it. It's been awhile since I read "Axe" but I just recall it missing a little something. (how's that for an answer?) Different books for different folks... ;-p >As far as Emma goes, I also really like that she and Will have been >involved in the Elsewhere universe - some really good work being put out >around that world, I think! And..how did Will do in his political >campaign, anyone know? AND...no, I know you didn't write this part, but >what the hey!...the movie still lives, eh? THat's good to hear. I've >not heard from Steeldragon for some time now, so had wondered. Man, if >there was ever a reason to pack up and move to Minneapolis, this movie >alone might be it! :) The movie still lives. But is on hold. If anyone has connections to folks in the moviemaking biz or people with money to put behind an incredible movie project, lemme know. :) Actually, it's the Borderlands universe... Will wrote a nifty book called "Elsewhere" tho... Will Shetterly did really well in his campaign for MN Governor. (He was the Grassroots party candidate). He and the party got enough votes that they'll be on the ticket next go 'round. >Actually, since I'm going in this vein..Laurel Krahn wrote: >MA> I had the pleasure of seeing Emma and her husband Will Shetterly >> on St. Patties day. They were at the annual Boiled in Lead show >> at First Avenue in Minneapolis. Then the Flash Girls had a gig >ar. Alas, I only caught 2 songs from their set >at the Uptown. > >I'm wildly jealous. :) Boiled in Lead is always so much fun - I've >caught their last two Philly shows and think the world of them. Any >idea on what happened to Cats Laughing? Did it just kinda fade off with >Adam's move to BiL and Emma's creation of the Flash Girls? And how are >FG in concert? (Catching 2 songs is more than I can claim!) *Sigh* I >keep wishing they'd do some sort of mini-tour...I'm still heartbroken >that Emma was at PhilCon a few years back and I didn't find out until >weeks afterwards. :( Cats Laughing still lives. Sporadically. :) Minicon is a nice large Science Fiction convention held near Minneapolis, MN every Easter weekend. This year, the guests of honor include Vernor Vinge, Glen Cook, and Dr. Robert Forward. And, Boiled in Lead and Cats Laughing are both playing the dance. It's Boiled in Lead's album release party for their new album _Songs from the Gypsy_ (It's all songs from the Steven Brust/Megan Lindholm novel _The Gypsy_). Flash Girls, Lojo Russo, Gallowglass, and other incredible musicians will also be playing at Minicon's coffeehouse, and folks will be jamming in music parties every night 'til dawn. >You also wrote: >MA> Though I agree with some of the FOurth Street crowd... who thinks >MA> some of his books lack a certain... something. Indefinable >A> quality. But they occasionally let me down. Or seem like they >A> could be better. > >Actually..sometimes I've felt the same thing. Of late, his books seem >to have gotten richer, but for a while - like, between the Jack books >and the last few - I was left feeling like it was almost "watered down" >work, in some way. Like maybe he was working too fast to put enough >life into them. It's hard to put into words. Like, I do love "The >Dreaming Place," but it didn't feel "deep" enough to me. If you know >what I mean. Has he ever considered putting HIS music to tape or CD? >I'm so very curious as to how his work sounds. I'm not sure if Charles de Lint's band has any recordings out. I know he plays on one of Decadent Dave Clement's tapes (I believe it's the first one-- "Music After Midnight"). That particular tape was recorded at music parties at Minicon and Keycon (in Winnipeg). Best, Laurel Krahn /// lakrahn@iw.net Director of Operations /// 800.386.IWAY Iway Internet Services /// http://www.iw.net/ ------------------------------ From: kiri@sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu (Kiri Hargie) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 10:40:29 -0600 (CST) Subject: male artists As far as non-white male artists go my personal and undying favorite is Bob Marley. Not nearly on the same par, but good nevertheless are Yothu Yindi. None-white female artists I enjoy are Grace Jones, Billy Holliday, Zap Mama, Tasmin Archer, and one of my all time unabashed favorites Tina Turner. I also love Dub Poetry - but unfortunately lost all the names of the people I have on this awesome tape of DP. oh and Frank Chickens! As far as white male artists go I love Split Enz, NIN, Pop Will Eat Itself, Sting & The Police, King Missle, Simple Minds, Tears for Fears, XTC, Robyn Hitchcock, Peter Gabriel, and bunches more. I'm actually getting into Queensryche right now too....very strange. kiri Ch`i mi gun d`ail an t-`aite 's an d'rugadh mi Cuirear orm f`ailt' 's a' ch`anain a thuigeas mi Gheibh mi ann aoidh agus gr`adh 'n uair ruigeam Nach reicinn air thunnaichean `oir Kirstin A. Hargie Dept. of Biology University of Mississippi University, MS 38677 kiri@sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu "Kids can't have any fun these days when all the toys are politically correct and non-flammable." KaH 28 Feb. 95 ------------------------------ From: jeffy@wam.umd.edu Date: Tue, 21 Mar 95 12:37:52 EST Subject: urgent! DC sarah ticket available! Hey, folks...Valerie Nozick has just informed me that she can't make it to the Sarah McLachlan concert tomorrow night (3/22) here in DC. So, I have one THIRD ROW ticket available! Face value of the ticket (including ticketbastard service charge) was something like $32. Anyone interested? Please contact me immediately! Jeff |Jeffrey C. Burka | "When I look in the mirror, I see a little clearer/ | | | I am what I am and you are you too./ Do you like | |jeffy@wam.umd.edu | what you see? Do you like yourself?" --N. Cherry | ------------------------------ From: Nicholas Hill Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:48:51 -0500 Subject: NYC ecto There is a woman named Dorothy Scott who has played around NYC quite a bit in the past (Sin'e, Fez etc.) Dorothy has been in Ireland and Scandanavia for a while but is back in NY for a while and is performing at The Cooler, Wednesday, Mar. 22 at 11:00... I highly recommend her and think most folks in ecto land would fall head over heels... She has no records out and is very shy in person but she really belts it out in performance... Also Katell Keineg is doing a few songs tonight (tuesday) at some sort of caberet at 44 Walker St. in Manhattan at 8:30... Thats all I know... And dont forget Victoria Williams at Town Hall this Saturday appearing with Vic Chesnutt (who is incredible!) ------------------------------ From: Ethan Straffin Date: Tue, 21 Mar 95 12:02:23 -0800 Subject: Re: Male artists/ecto Michael Colford writes: >I will offer two who I haven't seen mentioned (but may have >been from time to time) who I think are definitely worth >checking out. First there's Bob Mould/Sugar. Not exactly >ecto fare, although his solo acoustic stuff isn't too far >off, Bob's worth a listen. As you all probably know, Bob >is an alum from that seminal punk outfit, Husker Du. >His work with Sugar is just as driving and crunchy, but with >great lyrics and a pop sensibility. Just had to second this suggestion...all of Sugar's albums are just phenomenal IMHO. I'll go out on a limb and say that there's no single artist, male or female, whose music and integrity I admire as much at this point as Bob Mould. That being said, PG, Lloyd Cole, and the Connells are other male favorites. Then there's E, Billy Bragg, American Music Club, the Judybats, Matthew Sweet, NIN, and many others I'm too forgetful to mention. Actually, if anyone's interested, I've come to consider the American Music Club list to be somewhat ectophilic, in the sense of being open to discussion about different artists (although being an AMC/Mark Eitzel fan to some degree is advised). Other artists being discussed over there right now include Mould, Guided By Voices, Matthew Sweet, Morphine, and Nick Drake...a pretty good list methinks. The address to subscribe is firefly-request@world.std.com. Ethan ------------------------------ From: HYAMS@alpha.nsula.edu Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:33:12 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: Freedom Sessions John, collier here... I bought my freedom cd+mm from nettwerk when it first came out. If I were you I'd contact them directly. I believe the e-site is on FTE. Lane is incharge of the net while cathy is on the road with sarah. yah dig? ps: it is worth having and you can get it with or without the mm portion (ie: cd or cd+mm) for 1 or 2 dollars different. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ tschuess! {8-> | "...I see red/sleek and bare/suits will die collier hyams | /their lives false/I will shave my head/before hyams@alpha.nsula.edu | parting at the ear/I will shave my head..." http://rever.nmsu.edu/~maldrin/idc/idc.html | international dub corps ------------------------------ From: HYAMS@alpha.nsula.edu Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:43:40 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: male artists greetings and praises, Kiri, I just so happen to be in a group with a Jamaican (a yardboy) and a Trinidadian (trini)... any-who I'd love to discuss Linton Kwesi Johnson and Mutabaruka and the like. ps: would that be a gaelic quote and what is the translation? BtW: to all ek-tites... I'm a huge fan of ecto music and I do think that many types of reggae and african or worldbeat music fit in quite well. I would say that the aforementioned styles did in fact influence our goddesses and etc. Comments? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ tschuess! {8-> | "...I see red/sleek and bare/suits will die collier hyams | /their lives false/I will shave my head/before hyams@alpha.nsula.edu | parting at the ear/I will shave my head..." http://rever.nmsu.edu/~maldrin/idc/idc.html | international dub corps ------------------------------ From: John Shepard Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 16:30:22 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: male artists On Tue, 21 Mar 1995, Kiri Hargie wrote: > > As far as white male artists go I love Split Enz, NIN, Pop Will Eat Itself, > Sting & The Police, King Missle, Simple Minds, Tears for Fears, XTC, Robyn > Hitchcock, Peter Gabriel, and bunches more. I'm actually getting into > Queensryche right now too....very strange. You forgot Rush and Yes! How could you? > > kiri > Ch`i mi gun d`ail an t-`aite 's an d'rugadh mi > Cuirear orm f`ailt' 's a' ch`anain a thuigeas mi > Gheibh mi ann aoidh agus gr`adh 'n uair ruigeam > Nach reicinn air thunnaichean `oir > > Kirstin A. Hargie > Dept. of Biology > University of Mississippi > University, MS 38677 kiri@sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu > > "Kids can't have any fun these days when all the toys are > politically correct and non-flammable." KaH 28 Feb. 95 > | John Shepard IUPU Columbus, Indiana | | The opinions expressed above are my own, and some of the facts too | | An Amiga owner and a Sarah McLachlan fan... God help me! | | "going going forgive us Lord we're going going down" -Jane Siberry | ------------------------------ From: Michael Bowman Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:33:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Miscellaneous responses. On Sun, 19 Mar 1995, Lewars Dusti L. wrote: > I have an old bibliography from him from 1990 that has a few titles I've > never seen released, like "Ghostwood", but they could have just been > renamed. Ghostwood, Ascian in Rose and a few others were released by Axolotl Press (formerly independent but then an imprint of Pulphouse) as chapbooks. They have since all been collected in Spiritwalk. Charles de Lint is also himself a small press, Triskell Press. Every year for Christmas he writes a story and prints up some copies (about 100 I think) to give as presents. Needless to say I've never seen one, but most of them are listed in OCLC (the National Library of Canada has them). Michael Bowman ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V2 #56 ************************* ======================================================================== Please send any questions or comments about the list to ecto-owner@nsmx.rutgers.edu