Errors-To: ecto-owner@ns1.rutgers.edu Reply-To: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Sender: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu From: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu To: ecto-request@ns1.rutgers.edu Bcc: ecto-digest-outbound@ns1.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto #752 ecto, Number 752 Monday, 13 September 1993 Today's Topics: *-----------------* Re: gaffa flamewars on ecto: Oh Boy Re:Breeders Bashing Re: re Some recovery :-) Abestos Suits Inc. long, did I say long, I mean really, extraordinarily ludicrously long post MTV ALERT: Rubberband Girl in UK charts new entry at 12 Re: MTV Europe GRRRRRRRR, or well, half of GRRR and WHEW! where am i? ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 13 Sep 93 11:48:56 EDT From: rmorrow@afit.af.mil (Robert K. Morrow) Subject: Re: gaffa flamewars on ecto: Oh Boy > From MJM@zylab.mhs.compuserve.com Mon Sep 13 11:24:33 1993 > To: > Subject: gaffa flamewars on ecto: Oh Boy > > The song with the Roman numerals in > its title, however, makes me nauseous *every* time. > Oh, what a lovely feeling... > > -mjm > Soooooooooooooo, the sound that could kill someone from a distance really exists!!!!! Bob Morrow ======================================================================== From: "Michael Blackmore" Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1993 12:11:27 EST Subject: Re: gaffa flamewars on ecto: Oh Boy Mike says: > in like a big magnet. The song with the Roman numerals in > its title, however, makes me nauseous *every* time. > Oh, what a lovely feeling... Oh yes. I've never liked that song either. I always skip on the video and the album. I often forget that even a Kate song. The mind blocks what it can't handle and all that! :) - Michael B. ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1993 07:38:35 -0700 From: jmg@rocket.com (Jim Gurley) Subject: Re:Breeders Bashing Got the new one last week and now that I've listened to it...I guess that's what I've done..I can say that it isn't as powerful or striking as ...It's one of those CDs I put on and my mind almost instantly gets sidetracked by other things...After (like I said) five or more listenings, etc. nothing has really stuck in my head...and I like the version of Do You Love Me Now? from better...It doesn't grab your attention, make you sit down and say yes, the way the new Stereolab does.... Jim ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 13 Sep 93 11:04:23 PDT From: Neal R. Copperman Subject: Re: re To add to Sue's comments: NRBQ are often called the best bar band in the country. They are supposed to have like 1000 songs at their fingertips, don't use set-lists, and anything might pop up. I have one live disc of theirs, which is ok, and among lots of other things, it has a Karaoke singalong/masacre of Billy Joel's "Just the Way You Are". Sue, how could you have forgotten the `HFS standard "Wild Weekend", which the highly annoying Weasel plays at exactly the same time every Friday as part of his start-the-weekend block. > We still had Pearl Jam doing that hoary old "smash-the-instruments" routine. > I hate that. There are people I know that would love to make music if only > they could afford a guitar, and here are these overpaid musicians on TV > making some kind of "statement" (WHAT, exactly? That they're as rebellious as > The Who?) by destroying their instruments. And the mike stand wasn't even > theirs to destroy! Anthony: You should check out the new John Hiatt album. I heard it playing in the record store and the track was called "Perfectly Good Guitar". It sounded great and the lyrics, which of course I can't remember, were hilarious. H A I R -- When I was in college I saw a woman with the coolest hair cut. It was parted in the middle (if you could call it that) and flowed down to just above the shoulder, where it curled up and inwards. When she turned around, she revealed that after the "part", her head was shaved! Two..Two..Two haircuts in one. Neal (whose hair will remain a mystery) ======================================================================== From: Tree of Schnopia Subject: gaffa flamewars on ecto: Oh Boy Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1993 16:08:01 -0400 (EDT) Forwarded message: > From MJM@zylab.mhs.compuserve.com Mon Sep 13 11:36:29 1993 > Date: 13 Sep 93 10:55:56 EDT > From: Mike Mendelson > To: > Subject: gaffa flamewars on ecto: Oh Boy > Message-Id: <930913145555_555063.0_FHI53-1@CompuServe.COM> > > Farbeit for me to get involved in this little melee, but > ETM, for me, still has the old Je-ne-sais-Kate quality to it. > Mostly this emanates from the vocals, but even the whole sound > still has some Bushy-allure to it. I could not explain it > better than that, except to say that this intangible feel > is what keeps me excited about anything Kate forwards to her > audience. Sure, it's not her best song, but still draws me I agree. > in like a big magnet. The song with the Roman numerals in > its title, however, makes me nauseous *every* time. > Oh, what a lovely feeling... I disagree. "Experiment IV" doesn't annoy me. On the other hand, "The Man With The Child In His Eyes" makes me reach over and press the fast forward button every time. We all have our Kate-crosses to bear. Drewcifer > -mjm > ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 13 Sep 93 15:09:02 CDT From: RhodeScholar Subject: Some recovery :-) Drewcifer evaluates his own post: >What a convoluted sentence. Not by my standards :-). Had I chosen to inject myself into the current teapot tempest--which I haven't, and still don't--I probably could have come up with something truly convoluted. But that's neither here nor there. I don't think I'm fully recovered yet after all from the virus (or whatever) that kept me home all of Friday and Saturday. My inability to locate something I thought I saw in Thursday's incoming, and reply to it with zingers, is proba- bly indicative of something. Like it or lump it, I seem not to currently feel up to picking apart individual post excerpts in detail, so that I'm now reduced to doing completely original writing. Oh well. :-) Friday, _Fresh Air_ on NPR gave a good review to _Sweet Relief_. Sunday, the _Sun-Times_ ran a long article on Liz Phair, in which she expresses bemusement over what a milestone her new album is widely thought to be. These are all the media pointers I have right now :-). Sunday, when for a brief shining moment I thought I was well, I went to the Around the Coyote art fair in the Guyville historic district. One of the exhibition spaces was not a gallery at all, but the salon of a group of hair stylists and masseuses. I got the card of one who cuts hair, and throws in scalp and shoulder massages, admittedly for much more than I pay now for haircuts sans massage. I'll give the number to anyone who wants it. On the oter hand, after I got my last haircut from my usual place, two people on independent occasions remarked on how good it looked. If it ain't broke, etc. (This may be, nonetheless, the most unique contribution anyone has yet made to the hair thread :-). ) Even if I never have occasion to get cut and massaged for a single fee, I at least discovered a good and economical Peruvian restau- rant, so it was worth sacrificing my health for :-). Based on MJM's account, it seems especially unfortunate that the Record Exch- ange in Evanston is no longer there. It was where I got my 1st4, and one of the few places around here to carry all of Happy's records. WRT someone else's query, the best remaining places in Chicago to get them are Rose on Ashland and Tower on Clark. Off to the comfort station in the building across the street, the water in this building being off. To the memory of Raymond Burr. Mitch ------------------------------ "Thinking is hard. That's why a lot of people don't do it." --Rush Limbaugh ======================================================================== From: Tree of Schnopia Subject: Abestos Suits Inc. Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1993 16:46:01 -0400 (EDT) Forwarded message: > From MICHAELB@ksgrsch.harvard.edu Mon Sep 13 10:20:35 1993 > Message-Id: > From: "Michael Blackmore" > To: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu > Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1993 09:51:20 EST > Subject: Abestos Suits Inc. > X-Pmrqc: 1 > Priority: normal > X-Mailer: PMail v3.0 (R1a) > People, I think we may be venturing into the territory of childishness here. This nigh-flamewar is quite inappropriate. > > I find it impossible to "sit back and enjoy" a piece of music > > that I find to be badly produced, repetitive, and uninspired. If > > I were able to do this, then I'd be perfectly happy with KC101, > > and I wouldn't be here with you today. > > Umm. Meredith. Your point is...?? Do you deny that there is a > trend on Gaffa to have high expecations for Kate's music? I > personally don't care if you're an exception to the rule. That nice. > Great. Wonderful even. The original post *directly* accused Meredith of this attitude. She was simply defending herself. *That* was the point. > As for "badly produced, repetitive, and uninspired"...I'll be the > first to acknowledge that it's not my favorite Kate song or even my > favorite version of the song. I wouldn't called it any of those. > It might be more accurate to say it was produced the way you like it > and it didn't inspire you. "Repetitive" guess what...so the > original! Michael, I try to avoid grammar/spelling flames, but I have *no* idea what you're talking about in the above paragraph. Could you give us the edited version? > So if someone likes a song that you don't like, you have a right to > attack them and criticize them. I think that your statement here is > totally uncalled for. And so was the original statement accusing Meredith of being musically snobbish since she disliked a song someone else liked. "Let he who is without sin..." > > If I think a song sucks, then I'm going to say it sucks. I'm not > > going to force myself to worship it just because it came from the > > studio of the goddess. It pains me deeply to go "euwwww" at > > something Kate has done, since I never ever thought it would > > happen, but it has, and I'm just going to have to deal with it. > > And while I fervently hope this never happens, if Tori's second > > album blows chunks or Sarah's next one is infantile or I find > > "Summer" to be quite below par, I'm not going to refrain from > > saying so just to keep other people happy. > > Say if you don't like a song. Fine. Whatever. But why do you feel > a need to attack others and trivialize their opinions because you > don't like it? Argh! That's precisely what the ETM-lovers were doing to the ETM-haters! What happened to our nice, blue, fuzzy atmosphere here, anyway? A new Kate single is out! Shitty or not, let's *rejoice*, goddamnit! Phew. > He was just leaving it at that you're expanded and made it an attack No. He wasn't. And it was all patched up the other day. What's the problem here? > on others and the song. The whole point of this little discussion > that several people actually liked the song, but hadn't said so on > Gaffa because they weren't relishing be flamed for disagreeing with > the majority opinion. None of these people knew that others liked > the song. One person said something on Ecto and others started > coming out and expressing the agreement. Guess what the flames start > here! What is it in you that you can't accept that someone likes > something you hate? Why can't you simply dislike/hate a song and > state that fact without launching at attack on those who do and a > tirade on attacking the song? It only your opinion Meredith. It not > the shining pillar of truth handing down from G_d via you. It's your > interpretation of things, and it's no more valid or invalid than > anyone else. Which is why she was allowed to express it. Her opinion, and one that I happen to share, is that there are two prevailing attitudes among ectophiles and our ilk: 1) everything that [insert God/dess] does is wonderful and worthwhile, and we should like it all, and 2) [insert God/dess] has done some incredible work in the past, and we shouldn't be satisfied with less. (Correct me if I misrepresent you, Meredith.) Now, clearly these are generalizations; not every ectophile has one of these mindsets, and few have either in its entirety. But Meredith was denying that she possessed the second mindset, and also that she possessed the first, as do I. She had been directly accused of possessing the second mindset; hence the flame. That's a pretty confused account of the state of affairs, but I hope I've cleared something up. Now can we please GET OVER IT and be fluffy again? Thanks. :) Drewcifer > - Michael B. > ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 13 Sep 93 16:17:54 PDT From: Neal R. Copperman Subject: long, did I say long, I mean really, extraordinarily ludicrously long post This weekend I saw about 35 bands, and I'm still alive to tell the tale. This was San Diego's Street Scene, that I mentioned some time in the past, and was a wonderful wonderful affair (I don't know if all the people in the neighboring hotels downtown thought so, but there were tens of thousands of others who did). There was a 4 by 5 block region of downtown closed to cars, and 12 music stages scattered around the streets and in bars and theaters. Food food food everywhere, with the obligatory Taste of San Diego (local resteraunts), Bite of New Orleans and just about anything else you could think of to eat. I'll go short on reviews but if anyone wants more details on anything, let me know. Day I ( I went with a guy from work who is a big rap/funk/reggae fan, which led me to spend a little too much time in some funny places) Boom Shaka - Jamaican Reggae band. My friend was a big fan. Loudest band of the day. Decent Reggae, good rhythm section and nice voice, but didn't really move me much. Tish Hinojosa - I only caught her last song, sung in Spanish with a great band on a wide variety of instruments. Very sorry I didn't see more. Quetzlcoatl - 4 guys on accoustic instruments, mostly accoustic guitars and a harp. Traditional Mexican type music, that had the crowd dancing (whatever it is people dance to this kind of music). Reminded me a little of the Gipsy Kings, but without the sometimes maudlin music choice. I thought they were great fun in a musical style I am completely unfamiliar with. Buddy Guy - was a great showman, although he tended to disappear off to the side of the stage, letting his generic backing band have too much of the spotlight. Like Chuck Berry and a lot of other old timers, he seemed to pop into town and pick up a local group of musicians, who didn't add much to his show. When he did play, he had a mean blues guitar a great bluesy growl. Pele Juju - a band of (7 ?) white woman playing world music. I only caught there final song, which started with a long session of preaching about the spiritual essence of drums and world peace and what not. When they finally played music, they had a fun danceable groove that seemed a conglomeration of lots of different styles. Mutabaruka - Jamaican dub poet/prophet. Very distinctive Reggae style. Zapp/Roger - I got stuck here for an hour. Funky stuff with flashy costumes and lots of bragging. Endless use of a ridiculous voice box (recall FUnky Town by Lipps Inc). Actually a tight band, but who needs to be led in a chant like "Jammin Z90". Los Lobos - Definitely the high point of the day. I wasn't even a big fan and it took a few songs to warm to them, but after that they really hit a groove. Song after song was stirring and captivating, whether in English or Spanish. Kiko and the Yellow Moon from the new album really stood out. After 45 min I was sorry to have to tear myself away, but I would have been almost as sorry not to have seen B. B. King - It was immediately obvious why he was a legend. His voice was relaxed and powerful, and his guitar playing was so lyrical. He didn't play nearly enough guitar. Unlike Buddy Guy, his band had been with him from 3 to 15 years, and they worked fantastically as a unit. Probably the only person I've ever seen (other than Lambs Eat Ivy) to credit his instrument (a-hem, that would be his guitar). Jimmy Cliff - provided me some walk towards the car tunes, and sounded like the best Reggae of the day. Day II (and you thought you were nearing the end. I'll try to make these shorter, accept for the most ecto-interesting) Juliana Hatfield Three - started the day off with a bang. Actually, today had more "alternative" bands, and the crowds there were much pushier and rowdier than the other day. I saw the Blake Babies a few years ago, and wasn't a big fan of the album i have (Earwig), but loved there set. JH3 didn't rock as hard as BB, but they were still lots of fun. JH herself has sort of a little girl kind of voice, but writes relatively tough lyrics. Live, they seem more exciting since her voice is often pushed to the edge, and sometimes past it, which seemed more endearing than the sometimes cutesy albums. Jh and her bass player had great personalities. I felt like I liked them better than the music, which I liked pretty well too. They seemed concerned about the bugs that they described as "a cross between a dragonfly and a hummingbird " and the audience identified as June bugs. (so much for shorter.) Lil' Ed & the Blues Imperials - Good solid blues. Ed certainly was little. Spiritual Connexion - Local winners of a national Gospel talent search. An all woman gospel choir who were great (but I still haven't fooooouuund religion.) Beat Farmers - More nationally known locals whose bar band shenanigans are famous. I didn't stick around much to see how they faired in a bigger setting, but they seemed pretty solid in a Mojo Nixon/Skid Roper kind of way. Re-Birth Brass Band - probably th youngest people there, mixing up originals and Mardi Gras Favorites and turning the streets into a big dance party. Fleshtones - More bar band schtick. Seemed able but uninspiring. I think I prefer my bar bands in bars. Los Tucanes de Tijuana - more Mexican dance tunes. Paladins - more local rootsy tunes by a trio of guitar, string bass and drums. Chamber Brothers - gospel with electric guitar and some interesting haircuts. John Kay & Steppenwolf!?! - Ok, so I only stood around for one song, and it wasn't Born to be Wild or Magic Carpet Ride. John Kay had a good rock voice, but the band was tired and he didn't seem very excited either. Were they supposed to be threatening in their heyday. Looking a tad silly in biker leather. Azumah - a real strong South African group fronted by a woman with lots of xylophone/marimba type instruments. Don't know what they were, but they used mallets, were made of wood and were big. Some of the best World Music of the weekend. Sadly, I arrived on their last song, which I was surprised to recognize as an unacknowledged cover of Fela's "Sorrow Tears and Blood". (Pattting myself on the back there.) Ali Farka Toure - An African jazz musician. Ry Cooder was an unannounced guest of his. Dave Wakeling & the Free Radicals - DW (formerly of the English Beat and General Public) now makes his home here and plays in bars regularly. I had never seen him before, and while I was there he played 4 Beat songs. Didn't seem to me like he was making viable music anymore, but just hanging out in the bars and playing the music of his peak. I loved the tunes, but thought the band didn't generate much excitement, although the crowd was plenty excited anyway. Reminded me of seeing General Public, which turned out to be pretty boring. ( I never got to see the Beat, the only incarnation I've really cared about. We must be a good market for this stuff, since our "alternative" station recently started getting "competition" from a new wave oldies station.) Big Mountain - Really strong Reggae from a local band. Albert Collins & the Icebreakers - Rowdy blues and ice cold guitars. Mighty Clouds of Joy - More elctric gospel, but younger and more dynamic than the Chambers Brothers. The all-woman gospel band was really the most exciting of the lot. Belly - I guess my favorite of the day, since I was humming "Feed the Tree" after every set for the rest of the day. I saw Throwing Muses about 4 years ago and I liked this better. Swirling guitars, interesting lyrics, more great personalities. The bass player looked like she was on vacation from L7, stomping around and doing lots of heavy metal posturing. Tanya Donnely was more subdued and interesting. The live Feed the Tree was stupendous. There were a number of equally good songs, but I hadn't heard any of them before so I can't identify them. FtT was the catchiest, and didn't seem to be definitive of their music, which seemed rowdier, more rollicking and less poppy. Hugh Masakela- a nice breath of fresh air after the slamming and people tossing of the Belly set. In fact, the primary crowd activity here seemed to be making out with a passion. Cool Afro-jazz with singing, chanting and scat-style singing. Some great bass solos. Hugh was a highlight on Paul Simon's Graceland tour. O.J. Ekemode & the Nigerian All-Stars - High life fun and dance, with a heavy dose of preaching thrown in. Actually, the world beat people preached way more thant the gospel people. Probably a dozen people took the stage, filling it with drums drums drums and sparkling guitar lines. guest vocalists popped up to chant and rap (both male and female) and to exhort the crowd to dance for peace. Meanwhile, around the corner, X - was madly thrashing away. I last saw them 9 years ago as a punk band, and they still had a lot of energy. The forays into cowpunk and country styles made there takes on the older stuff more melodic and some of there strong middle stuff, like 4th of July, sounded great. Something new, Country at War, blended right in with stuff 5 to 10 years old (I don't know if that's a compliment or not.) They seemed to have grown since the last show, but not to seem nearly as dangerous, but then again, this was the streets of San Diego versus the dingy amphitheater of the Salt Lake City Fairgrounds. Mazz - Some sort of Mexican jazz band. Fabulous Thunderbirds - solid bluesy stuff to finish the night with, too bad I had to walk by Jefferson Starship - without Grace Slick, sounding corperate and very slick, and I couldn't walk fast enough to get past Ambrosia - and yes, they were playing "How much I feel " (I feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeel for you baby) as I was rushing by there stage. The right up in the program about how they have remained a viable band since the 70's was the funniest thing I read all month. Wheew, I'm exhausted again, and I didn't even have to read all this. neal ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 13 Sep 93 19:55 MET DST From: uli@zoodle.robin.de (Ulrich Grepel) Subject: MTV ALERT: Rubberband Girl in UK charts new entry at 12 Hiya, just watched MTV Europe Hitlist UK and on place 12 as new entry there is KATE BUSH - RUBBERBAND GIRL If you didn't get it, you have another chance 30 hours later: MTV Europe Hitlist UK rebroadcast: Tuesday at midnight CET (11 pm GMT). The song actually should be played at about 1:11 CET (0:11 GMT), so watch out and don't miss it! Thanks for all you guys in Britain shooting her immediately on a place that Rocket Man only peaked on the UK Gallup chart. I hope this time the warning will arrive more early than last time... And yes, I start liking the song more and more. Surprise alert with respect to clothes at about 3 minutes, watch out! (Somehow this reminds me of Experiment IV...) Paul King still thinks The Red Shoes will appear soon. Well. And he says that Kate is currently making a 50 minutes film (isn't that one finished?). No, I won't review it now. Don't want to spoil it. A review/description will follow soon, but for now WATCH MTV (at least once ;-) )!!! Have I already said I'm seriously (not:)) thinking of learning how to dance and to move to London? ;-) [rewind, play again...] Just one quick thing about the video: What is this in the very last two seconds? There's a big propeller like those driving the hovercraft boats in the Everglades, set onto wheels, shooting into the studio where the rest of the video plays. The 'thing' pulls a thick string of cables behind it and then a man comes running behind the 'thing'. May I assume that this has something to do with the 50 minutes film? (50, 40, 60, how long will it be?) Bye, Uli ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 13 Sep 93 11:41 MET DST From: uli@zoodle.robin.de (Ulrich Grepel) Subject: Re: MTV Europe GRRRRRRRR, or well, half of GRRR and WHEW! > >Well, come to think of it, her body is also stripped to the male dancer's > >body. > > ;) Why is it the case that I just only forget to mention that this was one of my ideas too? > I can only assume that should have been 'strapped' but that sounds dubious as > well... > > I take it that Kate is attached by rubber-bands to her dancing partner?? Ahhh yes, that's the right word... Thanks, Uli ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 13 Sep 93 18:16:38 PDT From: tjshadb@ecto.sandia.gov (Troy J. Shadbolt) Subject: where am i? ok, once and for all: to anyone who wants Troy Shadbolt, the e-mail address is either tjshadb@ceti.csustan.edu (where ecto list goes) or tjshadb@ecto.CA.sandia.gov I usually post from ecto.ca.sandia.gov; but our netserver (a DEC, what do you expect) can't seem to remember it's full domain name. The domain is .CA.sandia.gov other stuff: got my kate: eat the music: call me sappy, I like it. If you don't oh, well. extended mix: i'll pass big stripey lie: oohh, this is fun; reminds me of the Dreaming. candle in the wind: good Kate; bad song. ! I've got tickets for Michael Hedges and you don't!!! troy- who'se really glad monday is just about over. ******************************************************************************** Troy J Shadbolt ******************************************************************************** tjshadb@ecto.CA.sandia.gov ^^_____________IMPORTANT ******************************************************************************** ======================================================================== The ecto archives are on hardees.rutgers.edu in ~ftp/pub/hr. There is an INDEX file explaining what is where. Feel free to send me things you'd like to have added. -- jessica (jessica@ns1.rutgers.edu)