Errors-To: ecto-owner@ns1.rutgers.edu Reply-To: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Sender: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu From: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu To: ecto-request@ns1.rutgers.edu Bcc: ecto-digest-outbound@ns1.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto #833 ecto, Number 833 Friday, 29 October 1993 Today's Topics: *-----------------* Re: That YES song.. TRS and DG in SF A grab bag The Red Shoes Re: TRS - first impression Re: A grab bag ======================================================================== this is a short digest, but i am sending it out in an attempt to unclog the digester (which is, in my opinion, far to complex for what should be a simple task... apologies to those inconvenienced... -greg ======================================================================== From: S.L.Fagg@bnr.co.uk Subject: Re: That YES song.. Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 17:22:01 +0000 (GMT) On Thu, 28 Oct 1993 at 12:56:09 -0400 (EDT) Chris Sampson wrote: > Steve Fagg, > The YES song referred to in the HR (tribute) version of "Feed The > Fire" is "Long Distance Runaround".... > I still remember the _______there > I still remember the time we said, good bye, > Did we really tell lies,...... Great! Thanks! Which album is "Long Distance Runaround" on? "Fragile"? -- Regards Steve Fagg ( S.L.Fagg@bnr.co.uk +44-279-402437 ) BNR Europe Ltd., London Road, Harlow, Essex, CM17 9NA, UK *** "Better drowned than duffers. If not duffers, won't drown". *** ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 28 Oct 93 11:01:35 PDT From: kyrlidis@templeton.cchem.berkeley.edu (Angelos Kyrlidis) Subject: TRS and DG in SF I posted about the red shoes previews in the Bay area on gaffa, so I won't repeat that info here, but in view of the recent reviews of the Diamanda Galas show, I want to post that she will make an in store appearance at the 'Rough Trade' record store next Wednesday (I think) at 3pm. It will surely be something to remember :) FYI again Angelos ======================================================================== From: dcwalter@tomservo.b23b.ingr.com (Christian Walters) Subject: Re: That YES song.. Date: Thu, 28 Oct 93 13:22:03 CDT Quoth S.L.Fagg@bnr.co.uk: > > On Thu, 28 Oct 1993 at 12:56:09 -0400 (EDT) Chris Sampson wrote: > > Steve Fagg, > > The YES song referred to in the HR (tribute) version of "Feed The > > Fire" is "Long Distance Runaround".... > > I still remember the _______there ^^^^^^^ "dream" > > I still remember the time we said, good bye, > > Did we really tell lies,...... > > Great! Thanks! Which album is "Long Distance Runaround" on? "Fragile"? Yeah, on Fragile originally. Plus about eight others :-/ Gads, I hate Best Of albums :) -- Christian Walters * "In order to make sure you don't harm the earth dcwalter@ingr.com * any more than you already have, please die at the Intergraph Corporation * earliest possible opportunity. Have your survivors Huntsville, AL * drop you off at a compost heap." - James Lileks ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 28 Oct 93 11:30:58 PDT From: erik@falcon.kla.com (Erik Johnson) Subject: A grab bag snpf@ugcs.caltech.edu (The Duchess Of York) comments: |> And I was just talking to someone about intelligence. |> Some define it as the ability to make connections. |> funky, eh? |> a most open question, but a recognizable trait. Actually, I'd call that one of the best operational definitions of intelligence I've ever heard. The ability to take several pieces of knowlege that were acquired independantly and put them together to create something new *is* intelligence. The ability to regurgitate acquired information on demand is memory. The two are related, but separate. Steve Fagg asks: |> Great! Thanks! Which album is "Long Distance Runaround" on? "Fragile"? That's the one. Jeff sez: |> I started reading the Deryni series back in high school sometime and |> they've remained one of my favorite / most oft-read series/set of series |> (the other two being Anne McCaffrey's Pern books and Armistead Maupin's |> Tales of the City sextet). Currently there are 11 books (3 trilogy's, the |> 1st book of the 4th trilogy, and a book of short stories). I vaguely |> remember seeing an associated book that wasn't a narrative, but I could be |> wrong. You're not wrong. There is an associated non-narrative book called _Deryni Magic_ which is a grimoire, or detailed book on how the magic functions and how to cast spells. I started with the Deryni books in high school as well, and wore out copies of several of the earlier books. I loved the characters and was not yet critical of writing style, so the rough edges of the earlier books didn't bother me. What I most loved, though, was the level of detail in the books, especially the ceremonial details. It made things far more "real", and made the magic feel more like a rational system than random hand-waving. Thanks for bringing up Armistead Maupin, too! My ex introduced me to them, and I loved them enough that she bought me my own copies of the omnibus volumes for a present after we split up. Wonderful stuff. John SANDOVAL@stsci.edu replies: |> Philip also said: |> |> I've read both the Thomas Covenant series, as well as Mordant's Need, and |> |> I feel thet the original _Chronicles of Thomas Covenant_ is the best of |> |> the three... (MN was simply tooo predictable) |> |> Erik replied: |> >I read the original Chronicles when they first came out, and just could not |> >stand the main character, which rather ruined it for me. If he'd changed in |> >some way to be more tolerable, I could have enjoyed it more as a growing |> >experience, but I came out of it disliking him as much as at the beginning. |> >Maybe I should read it again now that I'm almost twice the age that I first |> >did, but it's low on my priority list. |> |> Then woj said: |> erik@falcon.kla.com (Erik Johnson) sez: |> >>I read the original Chronicles when they first came out, and just could not |> >>stand the main character, which rather ruined it for me. |> |> >at the time i read the first trilogy, i couldn't stand covenant either. |> >in retrospect (like around the time _the wounded land_ came out), i felt |> >differently. covenant is the greatest anti-hero: he's a weinie, a weakling |> >and unwilling. it's great to read a series where the protagonist is so |> >annoying but also so intriguing since he defies the usual trend in fan- |> >tasy for the hero to be admirable, likeable, powerful and, well, heroic. |> >i can't say that i ever have the urge to go back and re-read them (well, |> >except for maybe _the one tree_ and _the wounded land_) but they are cer- |> >tainly great books nonetheless. |> |> The fact that Covenant was SUCH a weakling was what I found so appealing. |> There were plenty of times when I wanted to scream at him, but I came to |> respect his point of view. If I were in his shoes, I'm not so sure that I'd |> react much differently, especially when you figure his physical state each |> time. My favorite character by far is Mhoram, though I like Foamfollower |> quite a bit too. |> I must've read the two trilogies at least 4 times. Something about the |> tragedy of it all is appealing to me. Just for the record, I'm not trashing the series here. I remember the writing being fairly good, and it must have been good to get me to react like this. :-) But my problem with Covenant as a character was not that he started out as a selfish bastard, but that throughout the first trilogy he never seemed to change. I don't know about you, but after going through all the experiences he had in The Land, I'm sure *I* would have changed *somehow*. But as far as I can remember, he came out of it pretty much the same as he went in - and I *still* didn't like him. Certainly, I didn't want to spend more time with him when the second trilogy came out - it felt too much like intentionally going to find an obnoxious acquaintance at a party and hanging around him instead of with friends. Why bother? However, I keep hearing people praise the series, so maybe I'll have to go take another look from a more mature viewpoint. |> Oh, for anyone who has read the second trilogy, have you ever looked at the |> words to The Police song "Wrapped Around Your Finger"? I don't think it was |> inspired by Covenant (I think it pre-dates "White Gold Wielder", though I can't |> remember now), but you sure can draw some parallels. I'd really like any |> thoughts about this, since it's been bugging me for about 10 years now. :) I suspect that both were inspired by the same sources. The story of the apprentice mastering the master has been around for centuries in various forms. Gads, this has gotten long! I think my $0.02 worth got blown out of reason by inflation. :-) Erik once I get started on a favorite subject... ___________________________________________________________________________ Erik N. Johnson Don't believe any return address KLA Instruments Corp. rumors. The one and only True San Jose, CA Address is e_johnso@kla.com. Got the anti-Christ in the kitchen yelling at me again... TA ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 28 Oct 93 13:59:23 CET From: Ilka Heber Subject: The Red Shoes ...yes! I have it!!!! = ) I had to go to town in my lunch break today and I actually found the CD straight away. Of course, I haven't listened to it yet, but so far it looks very nice. The booklet is actually a little poster of Kate posing with a black dancer. It looks quite good. The words are on the back. Well, that's all for today! byeeeeeeee, Ilka = ) P.S.: What they don't have here, though, is the Bjoerk CD single "Play Dead". The song is brilliant, I saw the video on MTV yesterday. Juha (hi Juha!!!!) told me that he already has the CD single, so I guess, Germany is a really bad place to buy music - I mean, if Finland has the CD first - that's a reason to get very worried!!! = ) = ) ======================================================================== From: Philip Sainty Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1993 08:15:21 +1300 Subject: Re: TRS - first impression Well Dirk's stolen my thunder to a small degree... :) A local music shop has an advance copy of The Red Shoes and although they aren't allowed to sell it, they are happy to let people listen to it :):):) (Actually, I didn't have time to hear it all, so I've just listened to track 7 (title) onwards so far, but I shall be making a second trip down there this afternoon to hear the rest :) I must WHOLEHEARTEDLY agree with Dirk that TRS is much better than some people feared from the singles... those of us that listened to Big Stripey Lie and took heart will be well rewarded I feel! Philip (jumping up and down........:) .________________________________________. ._______. | __ _ ___ _ __ __ |\________/| | | / / | / \ | \ | | | | / | _ _ | _O_ | | \_ | | | | |__/ |__| | | \_ | / \/ \ | |/ | | / | | | | | | | | | / | \ / | |\ | | \__ \_ | \_/ | | | | |__ \__ | \ / | T W W | |________________________________________| \/ |_______| \ Philip Sainty: psainty@comp.vuw.ac.nz \________/ / `-------------------------------------------------------' "This is where I want to be This is what I need" --KT ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 16:23:15 -0500 (EST) From: SANDOVAL@stsci.edu Subject: Re: A grab bag [Previous semi-long discussion of Covenant deleted, before it gets out of hand] >Just for the record, I'm not trashing the series here. I remember the writing >being fairly good, and it must have been good to get me to react like this. :-) >But my problem with Covenant as a character was not that he started out as a >selfish bastard, but that throughout the first trilogy he never seemed to >change. I don't know about you, but after going through all the experiences >he had in The Land, I'm sure *I* would have changed *somehow*. But as far as >I can remember, he came out of it pretty much the same as he went in - and >I *still* didn't like him. Certainly, I didn't want to spend more time with >him when the second trilogy came out - it felt too much like intentionally >going to find an obnoxious acquaintance at a party and hanging around him >instead of with friends. Why bother? However, I keep hearing people praise >the series, so maybe I'll have to go take another look from a more mature >viewpoint. I didn't think you were trashing the series. Just expressing a different point of view is all. (Hmm, kind of ties in with the PC thread, huh? :) ) I know that there's plenty of differences of opinion out there about a lot of things, and I like to find out what other people like and dislike, and why. Now, as for Covenant, I think the main reason that he doesn't change is that he refuses to believe that it happened at all. He's been so "brainwashed" by his disease that he thinks that if he believes in getting better, it'll end up killing him. So he can't afford to change. For me, it would've ruined it if by the end of the third book, he HAD changed. In the second trilogy, I think he does change quite a bit. He's no longer a skeptic and coward, partially because he can't afford to be one anymore. In a sense, he's given up in the second trilogy, he's just trying to see if there is any way out for him. (Plenty of Christ parallels in this trilogy.) I would recommend reading the stories again, just to see if you have a different view of it. Maybe you'll even come around to the "correct" way of thinking... :) I said: |> Oh, for anyone who has read the second trilogy, have you ever looked at the |> words to The Police song "Wrapped Around Your Finger"? I don't think it was |> inspired by Covenant (I think it pre-dates "White Gold Wielder", though I can't |> remember now), but you sure can draw some parallels. I'd really like any |> thoughts about this, since it's been bugging me for about 10 years now. :) >I suspect that both were inspired by the same sources. The story of the >apprentice mastering the master has been around for centuries in various >forms. Yes, but I think there are specific points between the song and the story that are very interesting. I actually annotated the song at one point many years ago, just to see all the parallels. There are quite a few... :) Take care, John ======================================================================== The ecto archives are on hardees.rutgers.edu in ~ftp/pub/hr. There is an INDEX file explaining what is where. Feel free to send me things you'd like to have added. -- jessica (jessica@ns1.rutgers.edu)