Errors-To: ecto-owner@ns1.rutgers.edu Reply-To: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Sender: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu From: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu To: ecto-request@ns1.rutgers.edu Bcc: ecto-digest-outbound@ns1.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto #858 ecto, Number 858 Wednesday, 10 November 1993 Today's Topics: *-----------------* resisting the urge... Thoughts at large Formal DESIRE specification Aimee Mann South African music Attention Loreena-philes confusion lurking off .... Battle of the literary genres! Re: Attention Loreena-philes RE: "The Stolen Child" Prelude to the Ecto catch-up from Hell... 'Shoes cover/Australia ======================================================================== Date: 10 Nov 93 15:22:55 EST From: Mike Mendelson Subject: resisting the urge... I'm forwarding this to ecto as well as gaffa, so *do* skip it if you've already seen it... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Alex Gibbs: |I personally can't get into this song-by-song analysis, at least not |at this stage. I think it's because I'm still forming my own opinions |or maybe because I'm obsessive enough without doing that! :) I'm not |sure. Maybe it's because I know we will all feel differently anyway. |Also, something about dissecting it into pieces and actually grading |the pieces sort of bugs me. Am I alone in this? This is a good point and I think it underscores peoples basic need to categorize, compartmentalize, pigeonhole, and get a "handle" or control over things. It happens everywhere. Our society is rife with this. And, I think it is human nature to try to deconstitute complex entities into easily identifiable pieces. Take Kate Bush album listening as an example of this. Everyone is on the edges of their seats waiting and anticipating the new music. As soon as it is out, the race is literally on to listen and form quick opinions. "Oh boy, I got the album, I listened to it 7 times in 2 hours, now I can write my song-by-song breakdown and conveniently know which songs I like, which ones I hate, and I can validate those feelings by broadcasting to my gaffa peers." Why, the same thing happens in politics. Sound-bites. Quick analysis after the Perot/Gore debate for example. Before it's even over, the media has decided who won, who lost, why, and what will happen as a result. Well, politics is perhaps slightly more quantifiable than music. I mean, God forbid I should listen to TRS 20 times consecutively and *still* not know *exactly* how I feel about each and every track. For myself, I know that each time I hear, I react a little differently, based on factors to numerous to enumerate: Where am I when I listen? What mood am I in? Is it daytime? Morning? Nighttime? Am I in bed? In the shower? Eating lunch at work? Driving to a party? Leaving a lecture? We all listen to music all the time in so many different contexts, it's impossible to have the same reaction every single time. There are times when I've listened to TRS and, as a whole, said to myself, "This album just does not work for me... it really leaves me cold." But, then there are other times I've listened to it, or to parts of it, and said "yeah those 4 songs in that sequence really work for me," or "I don't care much for The Red Shoes but Top of the City is genius," or "Eat the Music is great" or "it sucks." It just depends so much. Now over a continuum of time, these opinions converge, although I would say never completely. I am rarely in the mood to listen to TSW, for example, but on the autumnest of days, when I'm driving amidst grey skies and swirling leaves, there is nothing better than TSW. My impression of TRS, is that it too has a "personality". I like to view albums like this as a whole, rather than as a simple collection of songs. My opinion of TotC is already bound up as much in its own strengths as in my anticipation thereof while listening to TRS, or even the whole part of the album that precedes it. Then again, I had a friend in college who insisted that people's concentration spans are so slim that they require constantly changing soundscapes so as not to get bored. Thus the advent of the LP, as opposed to the once-dominating 45 (single). And radio, or course, in which stations now offer rewards to listeners who catch them playing the same song more than once in a 24-hour span. I remember sitting pasted to a chair at Wayne's behest listening to just one song over and over for hours. Hard Habit to Break by Chicago. Levon by Elton John. It's amazing how these songs became a part of me after continued saturation. When I hear them now, I still love them. How many people have listened to any of the songs on TRS over and over? [Actually, I'd be hard-pressed to think of even one song that I'd be willing to do this for, which I suppose speaks volumes. But some songs do work better in an album context than alone.] On the other hand, I'd happily be confined for hours in a room with GOOMH playing on infinite loop. So, in conclusion (:-), I would question the point of reviewing on a song-by-song basis this early in the game, and moreover, I would urge people to *resist* the urge to form compartmentalized, often trivializing opinions on individual songs when their merits are so irrevocably bound up in factors that transcend single-songedness. Once an encapulation is made, it is often hard (though certainly not impossible) to undo... even if it is a first impression. But of course you should all do whatever you want anyways... :-) [hope this was somewhat cogent and coherent] -mjm ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1993 14:17:13 CST From: Subject: Thoughts at large Much of the day has been shot trying to get out of a hung gopher session without creaming the day's incoming list posts (in temporary files prior to archiving), an endeavor which finally succeeded; so I'm not really up to lengthy discourse (hurray, you say :-)). Be that as it may: Brenda Kahn is kind of a folkie, who's done an album before called something like "Fish Don't Talk Back." It's actually fairly good. More will doubtless come back to me when I've calmed down from all the excitement. Rose is selling TRS for $13.99 through the end of next month. Their blurb sez "Kate has done nothing short of dazzle and amaze, and reinvent what we might call rock music, especially rock music created so daringly by a woman." Go figure. How appropriate that on the day before Veterans day, we should learn of the nerf arms race in Jessica's shop :-). I, too, have heard of--and enjoyed--Johnny Clegg and Savuka. The Rose blurb ends, "Kate's music is so astonishingly refreshing it will simply be overwhelming." Go figure. WRT Kath's sushi recipe: wonderful to hear of new ways to fix lox. Wonder if there's any way to work cream cheese into this already luscious-sounding dish :-). Mitch ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1993 20:37:37 GMT From: imy@wcl-rs.bham.ac.uk (Ian Young) Subject: Formal DESIRE specification What does it all mean? What is it written in? Can I post pieces of MUMPS for people to debug? :) x 1e6 I. ======================================================================== From: guetzlaf@gravity.cray.com (Cathy Guetzlaff) Subject: Aimee Mann Date: Wed, 10 Nov 93 15:11:14 CST Aimee Mann will be at The Fine Line in Minneapolis on November 23. And has anyone rushed right out to buy the new release by Shaquille O'Neal? (For those of you who don't follow US pro basketball, Shaq plays center for the Orlando Magic. The guy can certainly post up but ya gotta wonder about his musical ability.) -- Cathy Guetzlaff Cray Research, Inc. guetzlaf@cray.com ======================================================================== From: ezust@binkley.cs.mcgill.ca (Alan Ezust) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 93 16:24:35 EST Subject: Re: South African Music [In message "South African Music" on Nov 10, prat writes:] | | Hiya'll! | | Do y'all get much South African music out there? There is quite a | bit of local stuff that i think you'd like if you enjoy Kate Bush | like Lesley Rae Dowling and Little Sister. | | Well see y'all soon! | prat ;) | | ps: Has anyone out there heard of Johnny Clegg?? | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- I was exposed to Clegg as well as Jennifer Fergusson... While i was living in Harare for a year, I made the occasional jaunt to Joh'burg and Cape Town. Fergusson is definitely ecto-style music, which would appeal to many people on this list. Actually, I was wondering, are Fergusson's albums available on CD yet? I was hunting high and low back in April 92, in every store I could find, and there were NO cds by her anywhere. I ended up getting a pre-recorded tape of her first album, and I still don't have her second. Now that I'm back in the northern hemisphere, I feared I would never hear her second album... -- | Alan Ezust ezust@{binkley.}cs.mcgill.ca Montreal, Quebec, Canada | |------------- McGill University School of Computer Science ----------------| This line is intentionally left blank. ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1993 17:06:18 -0500 (EST) From: HOLLY@umbc2.umbc.edu Subject: South African music Perhaps Prat should make a South African music sampler and have it handled by Doug Burks' tape dubbing and distribution operation? Holly ======================================================================== From: moorsa@rpi.edu Date: Wed, 10 Nov 93 17:07:01 EST Subject: Attention Loreena-philes Last night I was reading through a year-old listing of Fast Folk Magazine back issues and their contents when I chanced upon a listing for Loreena McKennitt. The song is "The Stolen Child," and the credit is to her and to William Butler Yeats. Since FFM often releases music that doesn't get out any other way, I figgered y'all might want to know that this is available (or was a year ago). It's on Fast Folk #408--Toronto. AAAAACK! Just below it in the listing (on FF409--Los Angeles) is "On Time" by Victoria Williams. These are both from '89 and, according to the flyer, are available for $12 for LP and $15 for CD from Fast Folk Musical Magazine, P.O. Box 938, Village Station, New York, NY 10014 USA. FF has also released some now-rare work by Suzanne Vega, Shawn Colvin, Christine Lavin, Paul Geremia, Carla Sciaky, Lyle Lovett (?!), Tracy Chapman, the Roches, and Michelle Shocked. alanm ======================================================================== Subject: confusion Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1993 17:07:00 EST From: "Jeffrey C. Burka" I *like* when that happens. I was listening to my tape of the new Pearl Jam tape. It ended, so I fast-forwarded to the beginning of the other side, which contains Aimee Mann's _Whatever_, before popping out the tape. At which point I was immediately aurally greeted by the beginning of the song, "I Should Have Known." It took me a few seconds to realize that I *had* popped out the tape and not just hit 'play.' Incidentally, if there are still tickets available when the friend who owes me money gets paid and runs off to check at the box office, I'll be at the Aimee Mann show at the Bayou next Friday, the 19th. Tickets are $12.50. The Bayou in Georgetown for those wondering. Jeff |Jeffrey C. Burka | Pithy, insightful quote to be inserted | | | when one occurs to me. *If* one occurs | |jeffy@eng.umd.edu | to me. | ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 10 Nov 93 23:33:29 +0100 From: yngveh@stud.cs.uit.no (Yngve Hauge) Subject: lurking off .... It's the time to get out of my own world and into the fuzzyblue wonderworld Ecto. Lately I've mostly just read the mail and even when I found some mails to reply to I just couldn't get myself to write the mails. Sometimes I did start writing one and then just quit in the middle of it cause I wasn't sure if what I wrote was what I really meant. Pretty strange feeling but not pleasent at all :( During the last days I have had periods from which I can't remember a thing - What I did or what I thought. It's just like they've never been there. I think I've had a feedback from all the sad events this year. When 4 people who have been very close to me have died the last 5 months I can't expect anything else. Even if I'm tired rigth now I'm feeling much better *hop* probably cried most of it out of my body on Monday. Had some great Happy Rhodes moments that day.....Listening to "Play The Game" while crying....Felt a lot better afterwards ... ! Then I'll do what I should have done long ago - Happy Birthdays to all who have had birtdays the last couple of weeks!!! That was all for now, -- T ---- Only In Your Eyes Lies Your Soul.............. H | --- ----- ---- --- - -- - - - - - --- E |-- | | | | | | |__| | | |_ | | | | | |--- | | | | | --- --- - - ---- - - - -- - - - --- --- Yngve Hauge (yngveh@stud.cs.uit.no).....University of Tromsoe...Norway ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1993 17:28:08 -0500 (EST) From: consid Subject: Battle of the literary genres! We had a houseguest last week so I've been catching up with all the ecto posts, including the big science fiction discussion. I have just one thing to say in response: Sue Grafton Sara Paretsky Agatha Christie Robert Barnard Carolyn Hart Margaret Maron Simon Brett Linda Grant Mary Higgins Clark Marcia Muller Elizabeth George Elizabeth Peters Barbara D'Amato Nancy Pickard Patricia Moyes Aaron Elkins Gillian Roberts Linda Barnes OK, I feel better now. :-) --Sue Trowbridge * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * "Leve ta jambe, mon poisson est mort!" -- Julie Doucet * * * * * * * * * * consid@access.digex.net * * * * * * * * * * ======================================================================== From: neilg@sfu.ca Subject: Re: Attention Loreena-philes Date: Wed, 10 Nov 93 14:54:44 PST > Last night I was reading through a year-old listing of Fast Folk Magazine > back issues and their contents when I chanced upon a listing for Loreena > McKennitt. The song is "The Stolen Child," and the credit is to her and to > William Butler Yeats. [...] The song is off her album _Elemental_, and is a setting of the poem by Yeats. The Waterboys used the same poem on one of their albums, too. They set it to music on _Room to Roam_, I think. Theirs is kind of interesting - at one point Mike Scott sings the words at the same time a raspy-voiced poet reads them - but it isn't beautiful like McKennitt's arrangement. There's kind of a creepiness as you hear the baying of hounds mixed in... I think you can order her stuff from her own record label, Quinlan Road, in Stratford Ontario. Her latest stuff (_The Visit_) is available big-label now. - Neil K. -- 49N 16' 123W 7' / Vancouver, BC, Canada / neil_k_guy@sfu.ca ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1993 15:09:58 -0800 From: Art Liestman Subject: re: Battle of the literary genres! and don't forget: Joan Hess Susan Dunlap Howard Engel Jacquelin Girdner Carolyn Hart Karen Kijewski Lia Matera Julie Smith Arthur Bloody Conan Doyle or (yet another genre) those ectopoets: Jim Gurley Neile Graham :) Art Liestman ======================================================================== Date: 10 Nov 1993 15:44:00 U From: "emilyb" Subject: RE: "The Stolen Child" > From: neilg@sfu.ca on Wed, Nov 10, 1993 4:38 PM > Subject: Re: Attention Loreena-philes > ... The Waterboys used the same poem on one of their albums, > too. They set it to music on _Room to Roam_, I think. ... Ah, I thought the description sounded familiar. It's on the *Fisherman's Blues* album, which is one of their best, in my Celtophile opinion. -- Emily ======================================================================== From: Bumblebee Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1993 14:41:58 +1300 Subject: Prelude to the Ecto catch-up from Hell... Hullo everyone! My exams are over at last... :) I believe I have about 3 - 4 megabytes of Ecto stored up since they started, so it may be quite some time before I catch up... In the mean time belated happys go to: Andrew D. Simchik for October 26 Jessica Dembski for October 29 (Extra special fuzzies to the Ecto Goddess Lady!! :) Kathleen Morrey for November 1 Katie Dougiamas for November 2 Anthony Horan for November 4 Michael Sullivan for November 5 Larry Nathanson for November 7 Jens Brage & Lynn Garrett-Kirchoff for November 8 Ken Latta for November 11 (Today, in fact... :) H H AA PPP PPP Y Y BBB III RRR TTTTT H H DDD AA Y Y H H A A P P P P Y Y B B I R R T H H D D A A Y Y HHHH AAAA PPP PPP Y BBB I RRR T HHHH D D AAAA Y H H A A P P Y B B I R R T H H D D A A Y H H A A P P Y BBB III R R T H H DDD A A Y Yay! Philip .________________________________________. ._______. | __ _ ___ _ __ __ |\________/| | | / / | / \ | \ | | | | / | _ _ | _O_ | | \_ | | | | |__/ |__| | | \_ | / \/ \ | |/ | | / | | | | | | | | | / | \ / | |\ | | \__ \_ | \_/ | | | | |__ \__ | \ / | T W W | |________________________________________| \/ |_______| \ Philip Sainty: psainty@comp.vuw.ac.nz \________/ / `-------------------------------------------------------' "This is where I want to be This is what I need" --KT ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 10 Nov 93 23:37:23 MET From: brage@sphere.home.id.dth.dk (Jens P. Brage) Subject: 'Shoes cover/Australia Hi, I. (not I) wrote: >>>>>> "J" == Jens P Brage writes: > J> Wrt. "The Red Shoes" [...], I'm surprised no-one > J> has commented on the circular promotion insert beneath the > J> disk... Or is this specific to the EMI release? > I didn't see one in mine, what does it say? Hmm, with that domain (.ac.uk), I suppose you've got the EMI release too... Strange! In case there are different printings: I have the EMI version (even with "Manufactured by EMI" stamped into the bottom of the jewelbox - haven't seen that before either), The disk itself is marked "827277 2.2 EMI Swindon". It was still plastic wrapped when I bought it, so it's not some local promotion thingy... It's a round piece of cardboard of the same size as a CD. Both sides are half black, half fruits. On the front, there's a repreduction of the covers of "Sensual World, "Hounds of Love" and "The Whole Story" and the name "Kate Bush" in the same letters as on the disk. On the back there's the covers of "The Dreaming", "Never Forever", "Lionheart" and "Kick Inside". On a completely unrelated topic: I'm going to Australia next month for a conference in Brisbane. After the conference, I'm "unfortunately" (;-)) forced to stay in Australia for some days, from the 10th to the 19th December. Australiphiles, any suggestions for things to do and see? Jens P. Brage | And I looked up and there they were: Millions brage@sphere.home.id.dth.dk | of tiny teardrops just sort of hanging there. /\ | And I didn't know whether to laugh or cry. \SphereSoft | And I said to myself: What next big sky? ======================================================================== The ecto archives are on hardees.rutgers.edu in ~ftp/pub/hr. There is an INDEX file explaining what is where. Feel free to send me things you'd like to have added. -- jessica (jessica@ns1.rutgers.edu)