Errors-To: ecto-owner@ns1.rutgers.edu Reply-To: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Sender: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu From: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu To: ecto-request@ns1.rutgers.edu Bcc: ecto-digest-outbound@ns1.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto #848 ecto, Number 848 Sunday, 7 November 1993 Today's Topics: *-----------------* Re: Those Red, Red Shoes! Re: Holly Cole Trio Re: Concerto for Textual Revision: Third Movement--"Klausing on a Theme" ectopics KaTe and Prince Re: Pulse DIDs Bitches support group forming The Red Shoes - Second Impressions A Brief History of Anti-SF Area & M7x Ts!! / Holly Cole / TRS Lots o' new KaTe (for me) :) 5 "Things" DCD in Berkley - a spare ticket ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1993 14:42:15 -0500 (EST) From: HOLLY@umbc2.umbc.edu Subject: Re: Those Red, Red Shoes! Drewcifer voices a criticism of "Moments of Pleasure" with which I agree: > I really love the music, however, and it's a lovely, > sweet theme. I'm just not sure I appreciate the lyrical execution. > ("Smurf, playing his guitar refrain"? :) ) B It's Guitary Smurf! Every time I hear "'S Murph," I picture a little blue creature with a gee-tar. Holly ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1993 07:54:04 -0800 From: jmg@rocket.com (Jim Gurley) Subject: Re: Holly Cole Trio I just wanted to second (etc.) Vickie's feelings about Hole Cole. Neile and I found one of her CDs (can't remember the name but it had the Calling You and most of the other songs she mentioned on it) as a cut out at a fab used store in Seattle for only 4 bucks. At first we weren't to thrilled with the CD, but after repeated listenings it REALLY grew on us. She is sort of a standards singer, but with her own distinctive style. The concert Vickie mentioned sounds wonderful. I wonder if they'll be broadcasting it on CBC or even (probably not) releasing it on CD, ala Sweet Relief. Now if only Kate were there it would truly be an alignment of the goddesses....Hey, since Kate/Happy/Jane have all put out CDs this year, the only one missing now is Laurie... ======================================================================== Subject: Re: Concerto for Textual Revision: Third Movement--"Klausing on a Theme" Date: Fri, 5 Nov 93 12:20:02 PST From: Eli Brandt > From: mojzes@monet.rutgers.edu (brni) > i'm not really convinced that english is racist in the same way that it > is sexist. the sexism is a bit more fundamental. sure, there are all > sorts of nasty words that exist non-caucasians, but there are also nasty > words for caucasians. all that is on the surface. when people say "men" > it is not like the non-inclusive form excludes black, asian or hispanic > males. Douglas Hofstadter wrote an interesting piece in which he took the discriminatory aspects of English and "turned them 90 degrees". So the word for someone who sells something is "saleswhite" -- which, he assures us, is not discriminatory because everybody knows that anybody can be a saleswhite. Of course, some people thought he was racist in writing it, sigh. A thought-provoking essay, and short too. I think it's in the _Metamagical Themas_ collection. Eli ebrandt@jarthur.claremont.edu ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 5 Nov 93 16:28:26 EST From: woj@remus.rutgers.edu (the horizon you run to) Subject: ectopics WretchAwry sez: >Kate came way too close to trashing her early albums in a recent >interview and it made me very uncomfortable. yeah, i noticed last night that when i finally got around to reading the interviews posted on love-hounds recently. i didn't feel uncomfortable about her saying that though - just as listeners' tastes change, so do artists. heck, i look back at some of the work i did in college as far as magazine production, radio shows i have on tape, newspaper articles and so forth and gag. why can't a musician do the same thing with respect to what they did in the past? i understand the feelings that people have about earlier works but we can't expect the people who created them to think the same thing anymore than we can expect other listeners to agree with our feelings. ten years after the kick inside, KaTe is now a listener to that album just like us. she can repsond to it any way she feels like. Michael G Peskura sez: >Here's a hug for Meredith -- what a nightmare! The computer and the car >hit by the forces of chaos in the same week. we're working on it. since i have two computers in the house (four if you count greg's), i may end up bringing one of mine up to new haven if we can't find a cheap replacement quickly. heck, i might even just buy a new 486 or something and give her my zenith. i've been looking for an excuse to buy a new one to replace this 9.2 mhz (don't ask) 286 monochrome green blast from the past. (the other pc is an amiga which is great for graphics and sound but i'm not particlarly fond of it for other applications). >Thanx for posting your TRS criticisms. This is some country, no? I >suppose the reason you can't say 'bullshit' on the radio is to protect >those tender, young ears. Hell, they can't hear it over the gunfire! you know, i'm pretty sure that you *can* broadcast "vulgar" material outside in the safe harbor period (which is 10pm to 6am last time i was involved in radio). it's "obscenities" that are banned from radio. of course, i wouldn't be too interested in being a test case to find out if "bullshit" is vulgar or obscene. not even for KaTe. ;) +woj ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 5 Nov 93 13:56:40 PST From: kyrlidis@templeton.cchem.berkeley.edu (Angelos Kyrlidis) Subject: KaTe and Prince Not exactly ecto material (what isn't these days? :)), but since it appeared here I might as well post here too. Meredith writes: m>Why Should I LOve You: This song has GOT to go. I *knew* Prince would m>destroy whatever song on the album he had a hand itn. Gag. and Jessica writes: j>I mean, I just don't *listen* to music like this. blech. I know these are your opinions, and I respect them, BUT: ;-) KaTe is obviously a Prince fan (see Constellation of the heart) and can write damn good and catchy funk, and who is better than Prince to jam with on such a tune? (even though they didn't quite interact in its creation). I listen to music like that, and think that the song is outstanding. In fact I've never imagined the Trio Bulgarka as being funky divas :), and yet they add to the brilliance of the tune. I love the way their voices blend into the keyboard riff in the intro. I would judge the song for its own merit and not for who is in it. m> There you have it, MY *OWN& OPINIONS. I don't care who agrees or m> disagrees, so there. j>and now you've got mine too. and mine ;-) Angelos PS. If we want to be critical, we should start accusing KaTe for plagiarism, because 'Constellation of the heart' sounds a bit too much like 'New Power Generation' a Prince song from the Graffitti Bridge era, and the bass line on 'Top of the City' is a blatant ripoff of Tony Levin's style. But I like both songs, so I won't. :) ======================================================================== From: boek Subject: Re: Pulse DIDs Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1993 23:34:35 +0100 (MET) The Man From Cherry Hill writes ... > > Bob, your uncle > I have a feeling that if enough people draw attention to this, the best of Bob's sign-offs to date, it might just stick!! Well I like it anyway :) Chris. -- --_ /| \ ) Christopher Boek boek@hacktic.nl | \_| / PieterMolijnlaan 12, 2343 ES Oegstgeest +31 71 173984 | | /x ( <-- LEIDEN | \ == _ | "Hebban olla vogala nestas hugunnan hinase hic anda ===---/ |( thu" - Earliest surviving Germanic text (Gothic) -- ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1993 17:45:11 -0500 (EST) From: Chris Sampson Subject: Bitches support group forming This got bounced...from the rutgers computer?, I don't know, but it's been my experience that when my stuff is reportedly bounced, it gets through to the digest....In any case, here's my 2nd try at it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi all, Well, since woj can post about political corrections with a great amount of humor (the list of NFL teams) And, since Drewcifer can apologize for posting while in a crabby mood, maybe I can undo some damage... I too would like to apologize for the rotten post about political correctness that I sent here....While I do have ideas which, to a greater or lesser degree, run in line with the one almost alluded to in that intellectual vomit, I know I didn't get them out right. So I won't waste anymore bandwidth with this either. I'm sorry. We return you to your regularly scheduled (albeit tangential as hell :) show. Chris Sampson ======================================================================== From: boek Subject: The Red Shoes - Second Impressions Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1993 23:50:26 +0100 (MET) Well, I just read Meredith's and Jessica's reviews of the Red Shoes, and it's just shown me how people can view music so _COMPLETELY_ differently. My first impressions of the album were generally positive. Second Impressions Follow, song by song: RBG: Quality wanes as I listen to it, but still good, and on a good day I love it. ASIL: Still one of my favourites on the album (i.e. if I don't have much time, it's always on the ones I program :) ) Very good, moving song ... ETM: Growing on me :) MOP: Good for cleaning floors. Whoopps sorry, wrong MOP :} I love it as much as when I first litened to it from a Sun IPX in crappy .au form. (which is a lot Btw :) ) SOS: No, not Save Our Souls, but something that sounds as biblical as that sounds. SOng of Solomon is good. Not a favourite though. Lily: Also good, I think Meredith described this one quite well. TRS: Wonderful. It's also a favourite, potentially THE favourite. I like what Meredith said about wanting to keep dancing to it. Methinks that's exactly what Kate tried to do, and she certianly succedded! TotC: Nice, soiunds like it came off Hounds Of Love,(musically not lyrically), and nice. CotH: Sounds like it was written in 1982 by Olivia Newton John. It's Ok I guess, but that cheesy drum beat gets to me after a while. BSL: I agree with what's been said about this one. WSILY: Now, here we go. I like this song. In fact I LOVE this song. It's also on the short program list. The melody is just beautiful, which is one of the most important parts for me. And I like many things Prince has done. This certainly has somewhat of a Prince feel to it, but just as much of a Kate fell too. It's a real arrangement collaboration. I think this song is better than most bpeople seem to think. YTO: Also nice, will probably grow more. There you go. I really like the album. It hink it's one of her best, and I really like the cover and liner etc. I expected this to be good, when I first saw a picture of the cover. I dunno why :) it doesn;t really make a lot of sense I guess, but there you go. She seems to have been more focussed. I think that the album is not very unified, it's kind of all over the placce musically, but that's fine. It's a nice sort of disarray :) And there seem to be a lot of Christian references, or is it my imagination ... Chris. -- --_ /| \ ) Christopher Boek boek@hacktic.nl | \_| / PieterMolijnlaan 12, 2343 ES Oegstgeest +31 71 173984 | | /x ( <-- LEIDEN | \ == _ | "Hebban olla vogala nestas hugunnan hinase hic anda ===---/ |( thu" - Earliest surviving Germanic text (Gothic) -- ======================================================================== From: Aeren Hawkins Subject: A Brief History of Anti-SF Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1993 17:39:31 -0600 (CST) > Maybe you live in a more liberal part of the world. But around here, > suggesting that something could offend some minority is much like > screaming "Jihad!" All of a sudden people are signing petitions, > which I guess isn't that much like a jihad, unless they sign in blood, > but you know what I mean :) (giggle) So when did they change the Alabama state flag? Or are y'all still flying the stars and bars? :-) > If I misconstrued the arguments in the thread, then I'm sorry. Feel > free to ignore me :) But what I saw was something like this: > > - General discussion of scifi. > - Lists of good scifi authors. > - Complaints about Heinlein and his characters being racist and > sexist. > - An implication that people shouldn't write books like that. > Am I close? Kind'a...but it all goes back a bit farther than that: - Uli posts The Twelve Days of Christmas in C code, with a note that it should compile on "little-endian" machines. - Vickie makes a truly atrocious "Ten Little Endians" pun, noting that it might be "an American thing". - AH notes that the song in question originally read "Ten Little Niggers" - Mitch supports this, adding that a mystery novel with this title was renamed; he describes this as "political correctness". - AH questions the validity of terming the action that way. - All bloody hell breaks loose, as a number of folks air their views on PC. - In a desperate attempt to stave off further discussion, AH posts a note to the effect "PC? I meant to say Mercedes Lackey!", in the mistaken belief that the totally non-sequitur mention of a SF/Fantasy author will confuse the participants. - Uncle Bob ties Myste into the PC debate through yet another atrocious pun. - A number of people air their views on ML's writing. - The discussion drifts on to other SF authors. - RAH comes into the discussion. - Somehow, the topic of PC returns, this time in the context of "good author, shitty human being", with reference to the sexism/racism of RAH's characters serving as a reflection of the man himself. So, as you can see, it's all Uli's fault. :-) :-) Aeren, who thinks the Algonquin Round Table should get the last word: -- "I know that an author must be brave enough to chop away clinging tentacles of good taste for the sake of a great work. But this is no great work, you see." Constant Reader, October 22, 1927 ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1993 14:01:34 -0800 (PST) From: Neile Graham Subject: Area & M7x Ts!! / Holly Cole / TRS Hello everyone. Good to hear from you, Vickie. Alan, thanks for getting in touch with Mary Lou. I've been in touch with Henry Frayne of the Moon Seven Times and he said I could let you know that he has a couple of Area Ts (cover of _Between Purple and Pink_) Only 6 XLs and 3 Ls left. He says the large ones are on the small side. They're $12 including postage. He also has M7x and Lanterna shirts for the same price. His post address is po box 205 champaign il 61824. Another yes on Holly Cole. Her voice and style will really grow on you. The album we have is _Blame it on my Youth_. When we saw it so cheaply I bought it to give my father, and then I played it and like it more & more and finally had to buy him another copy. One word of warning, though, at least one ectophile I know who likes jazz didn't like it. I love it, though, and am hoping to find her new one soon. There also one previous to these that I didn't like quite so well. I hear from Toronto friends who have seen her that she's really something live and I can believe it. Neile's take on _The Red Shoes_: 1. Rubberband Girl: Fun, though if it weren't KaTe I probably wouldn't be that interested in it. As it is I enjoy it. 2. And So is Love: Forgettable, sadly. Another one that if it was someone else doing it I wouldn't even notice this song. 3. Eat the Music: Interesting lyrics but another one that if another person had done it I wouldn't have noticed it. 4. Moments of Pleasure: This is way too sweet for me. I know it's heartfelt, but if this were a poem I'd written I would show it to family and friends and not publish it. 5. The Song of Solomon: I really like it. I like the way she sings "I don't want your bullshit / I just want your sexuality". It has a wonderful turn, and I like the Trio backup. 6. Lily: This, too, is wonderful. Interesting content connection with "When I was a Boy" which proves that KaTe and Jane have some ectosynchronicity. 7. The Red Shoes: I think this will be among my favourite ever of her songs. Wonderful. The best. 8. The Top of the City: I love this. It's something about the way she sings the chorus, the way it rises and falls, really catches me. 9. Constellations of the Heart: I don't particularly feel one way or the other about this one. Has some nice parts, esp. "Ooh and if you see the women with the key..." 10. Big Stripey Lie: I really like songs like this where the singer seems angry and lets that power out in the voice. 11. Why should I love you: it's starting to bother me. The chorus sounds oh so very squiggle. 12. You're The One: Not my favourite. Another one that doesn't sound that individually KaTe. Overall the album for me has a wonderful center, but the beginning and the end I can live without. Overall I like the album, but find it odd that there are so many songs that don't really have the stamp of individuality about them that KaTe's music usually has. Most of her music I can't really imagine anyone else doing, but 1,2,3,4,11,12 could almost be recorded by anyone. They wouldn't sound quite like they do on the TRS of course, but still... I'm one of those people who really like "The Sensual World" mostly because "Rocket's Tail" is great and "The Sensual World" is incredible and is probably one of my favourite songs ever. Something about the love of the world and the affirmation in that one, just like Molly Bloom's soliloquy which is one of the most wonderful things written. Damn, I'd love to write a poem like that. --Neile ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 5 Nov 93 18:42:12 CST From: kmorrey@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Kathleen Morrey) Subject: Lots o' new KaTe (for me) :) When I got a single-unit everything-all-in-one-with-one-disc-player, I never thought it would make that much difference, i mostly had tapes anyway. And, heck, it's lazy to need to play more than one disc at once, isn't it? Sigh. I got TRS on Tuesday and TWW box set on Wednesday. I would LOVE to be able to put TRS, the two "different" TWW discs, and HoL, NfE, and TKI (which I only have on very worn out cassettes) in the disc player... Just be able to zap it to where I want, probably listen to the 3 VERY new things all over, and pick something from the others.. I just like to sit and listen to them, so for the first 3 days I just had TRS in over and over and over again, now I'm listening to Disc I of TWW - I don't have anything to add to everyone else's TRS discussion, but I do want to say that I absolutely LOVE "Un Baiser D'Enfant" - it's beautiful in French. The rest is wonderful wonderful wonderful, too... :) A question: Does anyone know if the military-person in the Experiment IV video who is kind of the background military-person (dies on the phone in the hall) is the actor who plays Bertie Wooster on Masterpiece Theater? I also wondered if anyone knew how good the Dreamtime album of the Bristol (I think) concert is. I guess if it's on vinyl the audio quality isn't going to be terribly wonderful; maybe "collectible," though. I also saw a concert recording on disc, but I don't know what it was. Too bad I just spent all my allocated KaTefunds and more (ooh ooh it's "Un Baiser D'Enfant" again!) - I ran into all these things at a used record store i found - as well as a marble vinyl HoL disc. The fact that I don't have a turntable is what mostly fazed me. OK, babble off. I'm in such KaTecstasy, I can't help it. Kath ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 5 Nov 93 20:34:21 EST From: mojzes@monet.rutgers.edu (brni) Subject: 5 "Things" hi there, just a few things today, i guess. 1) WELCOME BACK VICKIE!!! (i was getting worried there) we missed you (or at least, i missed you). my recommendations: hot chocolate, "the nightmare before christmas," um, what else? i haven't had the money to test out any of the new stuff out there. :(. but at least i can still send virtual *hugs*. :) *HUG* 2) last winter i started listening to shriekback, from somewhere in november until xmas day. then it abruptly stopped. i've found that i've started listening to them again in a big way. anyone have any theories? 3) i just ate, and i'm still hungry. 4) i loved this post: >brni cuts right to the chase: >>yeah, yeah...how many pairs of birkenstocks do you own...that's the >>real litmus test... > >None, but that's because I don't belong to the 'Earth Mother' branch of >the Lesbian Nation. I'm a member of the 'Butch' branch (Jeffy, stop that >laughing RIGHT NOW!). I own power tools and a chain saw (and know how >to use them...) and a 4WD truck. When my Earth Mother friends need any >household repairs done, they call me. I grab my leather tool belt and >rush right over in my truck. After I'm done fixing what needs fixing, >they feed me home-made granola bars and herbal tea while they show off >their newest pair of colorful wool socks to wear with their birkenstocks >and long flowing skirts. > a year ago i'd have introduced you to a friend of mine who has a thing for women with toolbelts. she's got one of her own, now (no, not a toolbelt: she's an artist). >(with tongue planted firmly in cheek) I remain... > better watch it. it might freeze that way... > Cathy Guetzlaff Cray Research, Inc. guetzlaf@cray.com > 5) yesterday i typed a review of TRS from philadelphia's city paper into gaffa. today i was perusing pulse! magazine, and looked up the TRS review, and LO! and behold, it was exactly the same, word for word. anyone have any ideas of what this means or why this would be? enough for today. i need to get off the damned pooter. brni ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 5 Nov 93 18:00:03 PST From: erik@falcon.kla.com (Erik Johnson) Subject: DCD in Berkley - a spare ticket Ack! Due to the vissictudes of fate, I suddenly seem to have a spare ticket for Dead Can Dance in Berkley, 11/7 (yes, that's *this* Sunday!). Since it's the seat next to mine, you'll have to put up with me; hopefully that's not too much of a cross to bear. ;-) I'll be coming up from the southest south San Jose, so if you're on the way perhaps we can carpool. I'll be at work for about another hour to get email; I don't know if I'll get the chance to read much email between tonight and Sunday, so after 7 PM tonight (Friday) you can give me a call at (408)972-1188. I'd hate to see that ticket go to waste... Erik ___________________________________________________________________________ Erik N. Johnson Don't believe any return address KLA Instruments Corp. rumors. The one and only True San Jose, CA Address is e_johnso@kla.com. Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans. ======================================================================== The ecto archives are on hardees.rutgers.edu in ~ftp/pub/hr. There is an INDEX file explaining what is where. Feel free to send me things you'd like to have added. -- jessica (jessica@ns1.rutgers.edu)