Errors-To: ecto-owner@ns1.rutgers.edu Reply-To: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Sender: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu From: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu To: ecto-request@ns1.rutgers.edu Bcc: ecto-digest-outbound@ns1.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto #845 ecto, Number 845 Thursday, 4 November 1993 Today's Topics: *-----------------* Sarah M. Repost of Sarah M. concert review Sarah McLachlan and Ginger 1993 Canadian Tour : Oct 28 in Vancouver Re: anti-SF TRS - nth impression ecto mailing list Anthony's Birthday! Bitches support group forming ectopics rec.scifi? buddy can you spare a computer The Cranberries at Toad's Place ======================================================================== Subject: Sarah M. From: Tim Breitkreutz Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1993 14:33:03 -0700 Well, last night I had a very enjoyable experience listening to and watching Sarah McLachlan perform here in Edmonton. I will repost an article from alt.music.canada which sums up the lineup and other stuff. As usual her stage presense was mesmerising. After a couple songs finished I found myself suddenly remembering I was in a huge auditorium with a couple thousand other fans, instead of listening to her all by myself. The only distraction I found on this tour were the two guitar players--they marred what would have otherwise been an perfect performance. I'm not sure what I didn't like about them, they just didn't seem to ``fit'' to me. But fortunately all I had to do was focus in on Sarah's amazing vocals and all was forgiven. The rhythm section as well as David Kershaw on keyboards were excellent as usual (I believe they are the same ones from the last time I saw her). She introduced a few songs, and seemed to have some difficulty expressing herself and a couple times just gave up and started playing instead. Sarah has a big and very enthusiastic following here in Edmonton: I bought my tickets one hour after they went on sale and didn't get a very good seat :( The place was sold out, and she *easily* got two encores. We probably would have brought her out again if they hadn't turned on the house lights immediately after the 2nd one. At the end a lot of people were down at the front, and she received some flowers and a hug from some lucky guy. There was also a fair amount of banter between her and the audience. One fellow in particular yelled out ``Marry me, Sarah!'' and she said, ``What do you look like?'' and everybody laughed. Then she said, ``actually, I just don't know you well enough.'' I hope lots of you can see her on this tour and any more following her foreign release. It's worth the $$. Christian: I didn't get a CD at the concert. I didn't even see a merchandise table... I was too distracted, sorry :) Tim ======================================================================== Subject: Repost of Sarah M. concert review From: Tim Breitkreutz Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1993 14:37:43 -0700 [Reposted from alt.music.canada (without permission):] From: hlee@unixg.ubc.ca (Henry Lee) Subject: Sarah McLachlan and Ginger 1993 Canadian Tour : Oct 28 in Vancouver Date: 31 Oct 93 01:37:06 GMT Sarah McLachlan with Ginger : Vogue Theatre, Vancouver, B.C. Thursday, October 28, 1993 @ 8pm - sold out (Friday, October 29, 1993 @ 8pm - sold out) Ginger (most of who used to be Grapes of Wrath) opened the set for about an hour. There was a 40 minute intermission to change the front stage setup. Sarah and band came on stage at about 940pm. As far as I can recall, these were the songs performed in her 95 minute set which included two encores; the list is not in performed order : Vox (Touch) [ She also played ``Steaming''--the song that turned me into a raging fan -Tim] Drawn Into the Rhythm (Solace) Into the Fire (Solace) Path of Thorns (Solace) I Will Not Forget You (Solace) Lost (Solace) Possession (Fumbling Towards Ecstasy) Wait (Fumbling Towards Ecstasy) Plenty (Fumbling Towards Ecstasy) Good Enough (Fumbling Towards Ecstasy) Mary (Fumbling Towards Ecstasy) Elsewhere (Fumbling Towards Ecstasy) Circle (Fumbling Towards Ecstasy) Ice (Fumbling Towards Ecstasy) Hold On (Fumbling Towards Ecstasy) Fumbling Towards Ecstasy (Fumbling Towards Ecstasy) - I attended Oct 28 concert which was the opening night of her 1993 Cdn tour - she was nervous initially but got more comfortable as the evening progressed - she admitted that she was a little nervous because she hadn't been on stage here in town for some time - somewhat shy and unassuming woman who, really, was just like your friend; so, imagine your friend performing in front of 1000 of her friends; the evening was so intimate even in such a setting. - one of the high points of the night for me was when she performed "I Will Not Forget You" as a dedication to 3 young girls who died recently (friend who was with me recalled the names of the 3 girls as those who died in a tragic car crash that occurred on a local highway); one could not even imagine or put into words the purity and the emotion in that song, what a performance. - her voice (imho) really does prove much better in a live setting than in the studio; you get to see her perform and experience more of a "spontaneity" in the performance. In her first encore, she introduced the members of her band, most of whom were also the studio musicians on "Fumbling Towards Ecstasy" and performed two songs. The title (and final) track of the album served as the sole song performed in her 2nd encore. She also gave one last "gentle" plug for her album -- for me, at that point, I really didn't mind. People might complain of shameless plugging, though! [No plugging in Edmonton at all - Tim] Of the 12 songs on F.T.E., only "Ice Cream" and "Fear" were not performed. At the end of the song, Sarah was the first to leave the stage as the band continued to play ... you knew she wasn't coming back again. One by one, band members started to leave the stage until drums and keyboard were left. And that was that. I highly recommend the concert to those who have the chance to attend. Those who are already fans will not be disappointed. After that experience, I left with just one word out of my lips : wow. Henry Lee -- Large scale structure (> 100 Mpc), cosmology and topology Henry Lee // ======================================================================== From: dcwalter@tomservo.b23b.ingr.com (Christian Walters) Subject: Re: anti-SF Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 15:56:14 CST Quoth jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu: > >Good lord. Me neither. Boy, I guess I should read these posts more > >closely to catch some of this attitude. > > Yes, please do read a bit closer... The complaints, particularly wrt SiaSL > but also some of Heinlein's other works, were not that he used racist or > sexist characters, but rather that all of his characters shared this > personality traits. This does nothing but lend credence to the idea that > Heinlein was using these characters as a set of mouthpieces for his > ideology. Yeah, that's what I was catching. I actually meant my post to be a more general upholding of the writer's right to create as many ofensive characters as they want. I didn't mean to be an apologist for Heinlein. Like I said, I haven't read much of his stuff. Sorry if I came off different than I meant, but work kept intruding when I was replying :) > >And this crap about a work of fiction being a reflection of the > >author. > > To deny that a piece of art contains any reflection of the artist who > created it is patently absurd. Depends on what you mean. An author or composer or painter or whatever may dedicate himself or herself to whatever is getting created at the time. They could slave for weeks and months, trying to create something. But when it's done, you don't automatically have a window to the artist's soul. Some artists are more inclusive and put their own personalities into the work. Others don't, and all you can glean about them from their work is that they are hard workers. > >Take me, for example. I'm a tall caucasian male agnostic. So I cannot > >write a story about what life would be like as a short female Oriental > >jew? Granted, I would have to research it thoroughly :) > > And even after "research" you still might not pull it off; some might argue > that it's impossible for a tall, white male agnostic to grok existance as a > short female Oriental jew. Well, yeah, I guess some might say that it's impossible to cross lines of race/gender/religion (or even height :) ), but I'm not one of them. My ability to tell a story from the short female Oriental jew viewpoint is a function of my skill as a writer. > In addition to that, I don't think Heinlein was a stellar writer. A great > *storyteller*, to be sure. But not a great writer. > > >But I think his use of the language is masterful > > Oh, *please*! His use of the language was in no way masterful. Gaah. A judgment call. My English teachers all told me that Faulkner was brilliant. They were wrong :) *I* like Heinlein's use of the language. What I've read of it, anyway, which as I said isn't much. There are people I like more, but I respect Heinlein's ability. > The idea that anybody here has promoted anything akin to book burning is > ridiculous. "Does anybody here dislike Heinlein as much as I do?" is a far > cry from, "I hate Heinlein so let's make sure nobody else can read his > books either." *sigh* Yes, I know that no one here is suggesting book burnings. I would be worried if they had. I would also be surprised that someone that backwards could operate a computer :) Maybe you live in a more liberal part of the world. But around here, suggesting that something could offend some minority is much like screaming "Jihad!" All of a sudden people are signing petitions, which I guess isn't that much like a jihad, unless they sign in blood, but you know what I mean :) If I misconstrued the arguments in the thread, then I'm sorry. Feel free to ignore me :) But what I saw was something like this: - General discussion of scifi. - Lists of good scifi authors. - Complaints about Heinlein and his characters being racist and sexist. - An implication that people shouldn't write books like that. Am I close? Maybe Heinlein was a sexist bastard. Maybe I would have been so turned off if I'd ever met him in person that I couldn't be in the same room with someone who mentions his name. But the ugliness of a person's inner self doesn't automatically mean that he can't say something worth reading. Take William Shatner. Everything I've ever read about the man makes him look like a pompous ass who lived to steal the show from his coworkers. But does that mean than I shouldn't like Captain Kirk? NOTE: I apologize if I came off too heated earlier. Chalk it up to being overworked and a knee-jerk defensive reaction to the implication that a writer should be careful of offending someone. I'm typically easy going, but that pushes my buttons :) I'm still pissed that I never got to see "The Last Temptation of Christ" on the big screen. -- Christian Walters * "If we all act responsibly, the world will become dcwalter@ingr.com * fresh and pure and can continue killing us with Intergraph Corporation * earthquakes, floods, hurricanes, tornadoes, and Huntsville, AL * volcanic eruptions." - James Lileks ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 14:07:38 PST From: dixon@physics.berkeley.edu (David Dixon) Subject: TRS - nth impression HI folks, By the way, it's nice to see Vickie back. :) Anyway.. I picked up The Red Shoes last night and have listened to it three or four times... it's not bad.. hardly groundbreaking musically (especially "Constellation of the Heart"), but beneath the veneer of marketability is a sorrowful, passionate album struggling to come out.. It really shows itself in "The Song of Solomon", a really visceral song, but gets buried underneath too-smooth production elsewhere. Some of the instrumentation is unfortunate, and she uses the Trio Bulgarka too much, but it's a very good *sounding* record. I like "Why Should I Love You?", even though it's got a little *too* much Prince in it (don't get me wrong, I think he's a genius, but he should have laid off the vocals a little bit). I still don't like "Big Stripey Lie" very much.. it sounds disconnected and wandering. So far, only "Song of Solomon" stands out as a truly excellent song. Maybe in time I'll even enjoy "Eat the Music" :) My g/f Emily finally has an email account, so say hi to her at emilyb@ingres.com and encourage her to subscribe to ecto.. D^2 ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 14:27:15 PST From: Neal R. Copperman Subject: Re: anti_SF dcwalter summarizes the SF thread as follows: >>- General discussion of scifi. >>- Lists of good scifi authors. >>- Complaints about Heinlein and his characters being racist and >> sexist. >>- An implication that people shouldn't write books like that. >> >>Am I close? which seems fine to me, accept that I don't believe the final conclusion can be found anywhere else. And without knowing a thing about Heinlein as a person, it is easy from reading his books to say he is sexist and racist. I have nothing against the presence of these kinds of characters in a book, and don't even feel that they need to be balanced by characters with thoughts more akin to my own, if I can gain some sort of insight by studying these characters. But what you find in Heinlein is, book after book, repeated presentations of ideas that are sexist and racist. Sure some of these are reflections of his time, but put together they are clearly a portrait of the man's thoughts, and grew wearisome and uninteresting. (We should burn them all - oops, don't know what came over me.) If Heinlein did not have these ideas, then he was being incredibly irresponsible, or perhaps daft, to make them such an integral part of his work and submit them with such zeal. I am still willing to read a Heinlein book, but my enjoyment of it is decreased because of these characteristics. Neal "This is partytime, and it's better than a cold bath with someone you don't like" - Jazz Butcher ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1993 14:50:27 -0800 From: emilyb@ingres.com Subject: ecto mailing list Hi! Dave Dixon gave me your address as being the person to contact about getting added to the ECTO mailing list. (It's all his fault - I never would have heard of Happy Rhodes if it weren't for him...) Can you add me, or should I get in touch with someone else? Thanks! Emily ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1993 23:08:40 GMT From: imy@wcl-rs.bham.ac.uk (Ian Young) Subject: Re: anti-SF >>>>> "C" == Christian Walters writes: C> I actually meant my post to C> be a more general upholding of the writer's right to create as C> many ofensive characters as they want. Does that include *all* of them? (No, I am not implying anything about Heinlein, can't remember what I've read of his.) C> An author or composer or painter or C> whatever may dedicate himself or herself to whatever is getting C> created at the time. Who's doing the creating? C> But when it's done, you don't C> automatically have a window to the artist's soul. Hmmm. Windows to the artists' soul aside, you have a piece of that artist's work, yes? What *does* it reflect? C> My ability to tell a story from the short C> female Oriental jew viewpoint is a function of my skill as a C> writer. Well, it's actually a function of your ability to (appear to [my behaviourist friend made me say that]) take on that viewpoint; it's possible your hypothetical sfOj is also a really bad writer :) C> Maybe Heinlein was a sexist bastard. Maybe I would have been C> so turned off if I'd ever met him in person that I couldn't be C> in the same room with someone who mentions his name. But the C> ugliness of a person's inner self doesn't automatically mean C> that he can't say something worth reading. Absolutely. But I think you've confused the argument. The question was whether the preponderance (actual or otherwise) of objectionable characters in an author's work could reflect on that author, and not vice versa. C> Take William Shatner. Everything I've ever read about the man C> makes him look like a pompous ass who lived to steal the show C> from his coworkers. But does that mean than I shouldn't like C> Captain Kirk? Again, the wrong way round. Anyway, the actor-writer creative- interpretive situation is just going to muddy the waters further here. I didn't write this. I. ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1993 18:08:31 -0500 (EST) From: HOLLY@umbc2.umbc.edu Subject: Anthony's Birthday! Happy happy birthday to Anthony! Holly ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 15:13:43 PST From: dixon@physics.berkeley.edu (David Dixon) Subject: Re: ecto mailing list Oops.. forgot to tell Emily that ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu *is* the ECTO mailing list.. I couldn't remember jessica's address off the top of my head. Well.. welcome to Ecto, Em. Tell them the Peter Gabriel story. It'll floor them. :) D^2 ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1993 19:46:23 -0500 (EST) From: Chris Sampson Subject: Bitches support group forming Hi all, Well, since woj can post about political corrections with a great amount of humor (the list of NFL teams) And, since Drewcifer can apologize for posting while in a crabby mood, maybe I can undo some damage... I too would like to apologize for the rotten post about political correctness that I sent here....While I do have ideas which, to a greater or lesser degree, run in line with the one almost alluded to in that intellectual vomit, I know I didn't get them out right. So I won't waste anymore bandwidth with this either. I'm sorry. We return you to your regularly scheduled (albeit tangential as hell :) show. Chris Sampson ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 20:18:20 EST From: woj@remus.rutgers.edu (the horizon you run to) Subject: ectopics Neile Graham sez: >In other news I got email from Henry Frayne (of The Moon Seven Times) about >the Area discs--he says there is a chance they will be reissued. yip! good news - some of the material on _radio caroline_ is quite nice and it'll be good if it becomes available easily again. the extra tracks on that cd and the _perfect dream_ cd are taken from a cassette called _white kansas_ (or something like that) which was the first thing that area released. neat stuff! >He says that The Moon Seven Times just finished a long haul of studio work, >which I presume means they will producing a new recording very soon. last time i heard from henry, a second album was going to happen. i'm not sure if the studio work was the actual recording or demo stuff, but i think it was the former. no idea when the new album might see the light of day though. >He also reports that there's a side project of his available now, called >Lanterna. a 90 minute cassette of guitar noodlings and other diversions. i think it is pretty fantastic, actually (but then, i'm fairly biased about his guitar playing so take what i say with a grain of salt). it comes in a nifty package too - the cassette is in a sleeve like unto a cassingle and there is a great hand-made booklet with embossed metal and gauzy pages and the works. i think he made 400, but there might be more now. he's certainly made more copies of the cassette at least. >Also got some cool discs from a place called Rare Necessities--a CD4 of neile, what the heck is a cd4? a cd5 is one of the regular-sized cd singles. a cd3 is the mini-sized single. but what's a cd4?!? Michael G Peskura sez: >A beautiful postcard arrived today from Dr. Beth of Orkney. (She has >lovely handwriting :) ain't it though? ;) >PLUS! My Nordic Sampler tapes also arrived courtesy of Doug Burks. mine too! as well as the 1993 hbp. i've been working my way through the latter during the commute (just about the right length for one side of a c90). greg and i are very impressed by dirk's medley (kinda "switched on rhodes", huh? :) three tapes is a helluva lot of music to listen to! +woj ======================================================================== Date: 04 Nov 93 21:10:23 EST From: Mike Mendelson Subject: rec.scifi? Um, ahhh, guys, I hate to be the policeman, but I have noticed more than just a few casual scifi notes (9/10 in the last digest?). So please feel free to just talk about anything you want but also be aware that there do exist many other appropriate fora for sci fi talk wherein all participants like and expect science fiction flames to and from each other readily. So, how about Kate's new album? (Sorry, didn't mean to change the subject... :-) My favorites are Top of the City (which is very ninth wavish sounding). I keep singing "little light" at the end of each piano cadenza. I also like the Song of Solomon. Overall, though, I'm still undecided on the album and will have to keep listening to find out whether it *really* is a classic... I can't just blindly say "Brilliant" just quite yet. We now return you to Hindlick or Buttscratch or whatever the latest sci fi ramblings were about. Aimee Mann tickets still for sale. -mjm ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1993 21:24:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Suspended In Duct Tape Subject: buddy can you spare a computer Hi! My computer died on Sunday. It took with it all my playlists, addresses, interviews I had saved, and my senior thesis. This is the first chance I've had to drive up to Middletown and use the machines at Wesleyan to telnet to delphi, and after two hours and an ungodfly (er, ungodly- godflies are gross) amount of ecto and .gaffa mail, here I am. Those of you who dutifully resent their messages to me which I lost last week will be interested to note that I also lost that mail file (the new one) in the Crash That Ate My Hard Disk (literally :P), but you don't have to send them a third time... I remember who you are. Even if I have no recollection of what you said. :} Anybody have a spare computer they can sell me for cheap? I have no money since my new car got hit in the parking lot last Friday and new fenders cost the earth (but still are under the deductible :P), but I can trade tapes. :} sigh. It'll be a bit until you see more playlists fgrom me, and the e-mail will be sporadic at best, but I'll still be here, I'll still be ecto, and be kind to my typing mistakes! Meredith :) meth@delphi.com ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1993 21:56:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Suspended In Duct Tape Subject: The Cranberries at Toad's Place Hi! I opened the paper the other night and saw that the Cranberries were scheduled at the last minute to play right here in town at Toad's Place last night, so I got very psyched and went. It was a great show- they were tight, played some new tunes that bode well for album #2, and managed to sound good despite the fact that the moron sound guys at Toad's never did get the mix right. During "Linger" the bass was pumped up so high I could feel my dinner vibrating inside my intestines (a very unpleasant experience, I must say) and could hardly hear anything else, much less Dolores. Dolores is a kick. She's REALLY tiny, and came across as an Elf From Hell. In between songs she would stare into space and smile this utterly evil little smile to herself, and when she was singing she would stare right at this (admittedly cute ;) guy standing right in front of me, and the poor man was having fits all evening. :) The crowd was really into it- mostly Yale undergrads with good fake IDs-, and I think the band was a bit taken aback by the great reception they got. This was their only Connecticut show (they're opening for Duran Duran elsewhere), and people came from away to see it- I ran into three of the four Welseyan students I still know on campus. If you get a ahcne to see them, do- I know it's been said here already, but you won't regret it! Meredith meth@delphi.com still ohne delete key ======================================================================== The ecto archives are on hardees.rutgers.edu in ~ftp/pub/hr. There is an INDEX file explaining what is where. Feel free to send me things you'd like to have added. -- jessica (jessica@ns1.rutgers.edu)