Errors-To: owner-ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Reply-To: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Sender: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu From: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu To: ecto-request@ns1.rutgers.edu Bcc: ecto-digest-outbound@ns1.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto #362 ecto, Number 362 Sunday, 8 November 1992 Today's Topics: *-----------------* Continuing the politicoreligious arguments and other stories Let's take it from the top again... :-) Loreena McKennitt Re: ECTO POLL RESULTS c program run. run program, run! oh here it is Tori and New York City Today's your birthday friend... Re: Tori Maybe we aren't waking up ======================================================================== Date: 6 November 1992 15:30:26 CST From: Subject: Continuing the politicoreligious arguments and other stories Steve wrote: Like Harry Foster, I'm very uncomfortable with groups who push their agendas with slogans like "No special rights" or "No special status." Mostly it's because slogans like those are all too often used in relation to anti-homosexuality measures (or perhaps I've just been seeing the OCA use those phrases too much). How often do people say "No special rights for blacks," or "No special rights for the disabled," applying the same reasoning to other minorities mentioned by the law? In my experience, "No special rights" are just the weasel-words used by conservative groups to obscure their homophobic and anti-democratic intent. ======================================================================== Date: 6 November 1992 15:31:55 CST From: Subject: Let's take it from the top again... :-) (I just hit the send key by mistake. When and if this essay is completed without such interferences :-), it should read as follows: ) ========================================================================= Date: 6 November 1992 15:30:26 CST From: To: Subject: Continuing the politicoreligious arguments and other stories Steve wrote: >much). How often do people say "No special rights for blacks," >or "No special rights for the disabled," applying the same >reasoning to other minorities mentioned by the law? In my >experience, "No special rights" are just the weasel-words used by >conservative groups to obscure their homophobic and >anti-democratic intent. It's always been my sense that affirmative action is seen by many on the socio- political right as special rights for minorities and women, which they oppose. (Some of them, at least, probably oppose "equal" rights as well as "special" ones, but that's a separate issue.) Disabled people apparently are not widely perceived as presenting the same degree of threat as minorities, women and gays. Still, some conservative commentators have portrayed the Americans With Disabilities Act as something whose chief legacy will be to feed the alleged litigation explosion. It is plausible to posit, BTW, that the specific exclusion of homo/bisexuality, transsexualism and other gender identity-related anomalies, anomalous sexual behaviors, and drug use as a behavior (as distinct from chemical dependency as a condition) from ADA coverage are political concessions, intended to shield the law from charges of it being a closet gay rights/prevert :-) rights/druggie rights measure. If larger numbers of people become persuaded that they are experiencing economic losses or (more farfetchedly) social disadvantages as the result of disability rights in general or ADA in particular, the situation described at the start of this paragraph could change. In re Doug's thoughts on the stereotyping of Christians: This seems to be one more example of how the meanings of certain words become narrower over time. It looks as if what started out as an umbrella term for Protestants, Catholics and kindred denominations eventually came to typically connote evangelicals, as opposed to the main line churches (which I thought was still the most common contemporary meaning of the term), thence to mean fundamentalists, and finally to mean the lunatic fringe. It seems interestingly reminiscent of they way that the referent of "women's music" has shifted over time from music by women, to music by feminists, to music by lesbian feminists, to music by lesbian sepa- ratists. Steve also said: >to a female, her ORDAINED bit didn't get set. Ahem, this i[s] >getting almost Mitch-like. Should I be flattered, or what? :-) I doubt that the numerous perturbations that my parents laid on me during my childhood would fit the majority of commonly accepted definitions of abuse. (The rise of ever more inclusive definitions of this and many other dysfunc- tions, however, is interesting to ponder in its own right.) As such, I don't envision myself as a prospect for Vickie's proposed list. But I wish the project well, and hope those who do go in on it find it helpful. ON THE LIGHTER SIDE... Today I went to the dentist again, and Senator-elect Braun is not in any other tight electoral contest; so the Republic may not depend on my dissolving amalgam fillings, bum inlay margins, etc. after all :-). Laura's anecdote about Dan Quayle and the dentist somehow reminded me, though, of an experience over the summer. I happened to be eating in a restaurant controversial, in some circles, for the waitresses' abbreviated costumes and the ambience's generally rather breezy stance toward matters of gender roles. I noticed a sign on the wall that read "CAUTION: BLONDES THINKING." The thought crossed my mind that the ideal way to invert the sexual politics of the sign would be to append pictures of Hillary and Tipper. Sometime later, it occurred to me that a more perfect squelch, as it were, would be to append the likeness of Mr. Potatoe Head himself. Still later, this whole scheme was dashed, in turn, when Quayle appeared on TV and it became apparent that his hair color was too dark to begin with. It is things like this that the phrase "it seemed like a good idea at the time" was created for. Mitch ======================================================================== Subject: Loreena McKennitt Date: Sat, 07 Nov 92 01:16:01 -0500 From: jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu The rest of Loreena's tour is as follows: >11/8 - London ON, Alumni Hall >11/9 - Ann Arbor MI, The Ark >11/11 - Chicago, Park West >11/12 - Minneapolis, The Fine Line >11/14 - Boulder CO, The Boulder Theater >11/16 - Fort Worth TX, Caravan of Dreams >11/19 - Tucson AZ, Social Sciences Auditorium, U of A >11/20 - Los Angeles, Schoenberg Hall >11/21 - San Francisco, Great American Music Hall >11/22 - Edmonton, Myer Horowitz Theater DO EVERYTHING IN YOUR POWER TO SEE HER IN CONCERT. I went to see Loreena last night (11/5) at the Capital College Auditorium, a little itty bitty thing at a tiny community college way, way out in the 'burbs. The auditorium turned out to be *perfect*. I doubt if there were more than 250 seats. My tickets, purchased the Tuesday before the show, had the numbers 160 and 161. I've no idea how many more tickets were sold. I got to the auditorium ~1 hour before show time and got front row seats directly in front of the chair Loreena sat in while she played her harp. There were a few others in the front row already, but I'm not sure they knew enough to pick the seats by the harp. ;-) Angelos has already praised the Boston performance at Nightstage, and I can only second his comments. The concert, lasting ~1:45 with a 15 minute intermission, was astounding. Loreena's voice is even better live, and the sheer power she projects is incredible. In addition to most of _The Visit_ (all but "The Old Ways" and "Tango of Evora" (or whatever the tango after "Greensleeves" is called), she played some older material (including "The Stolen Child" which is *brilliant) and some new songs. Unfortunately, as I only have _The Visit_, I don't know what was new and what was old. They also played a *great* Celtic/Mediterranean piece called "The Nascalines", written by guitarist Brian Hughes. Loreena was *very* talkative--in fact, she talked more than any other performer I've ever seen--and told a lot of great stories about the music and anecdotes from some of her trips to England. This was one of the best concerts I've ever seen, and I highly recommend catching the tour if possible. Jeff ======================================================================== From: Martin Dougiamas Subject: Re: ECTO POLL RESULTS Date: Sat, 7 Nov 92 18:06:58 WST Laura writes: >Martin - thought I saw the Beatles on the list twice (although once >was a sixth choice). No, no... didn't you know "The Beatles" and the "Beatles" are two completely different bands? 8-} But sheesh, you're right... that's the perils of computer sorting! Vickie, good luck with 'warpaint'... it sounds like a good idea. I sincerely hope it works out for you. Doug, I agree with everything you've written about this "number two" thing... (I take it this is some sort of referendum you people had at the same time as the presidential election? Could someone fill in us foreigners on it's details? It would make the recent discussion a little easier to follow.) New people, hope you aren't too surprised by ecto's diversity! Martin (sitting back and enjoying intelligent discussion) -- ,-----------------------------------------------------------------------------. | Free and easy, that should be her name Martin Dougiamas | | She took my lovin' for a nursery game martin@cs.curtin.edu.au | | The heart she gave me wasn't strong or made of stone Curtin University | | It was sweet and hollow, like a honeycomb. Perth, Western Australia | `=== Love Like a Rock (in Stormy Sea) - Rory McLeod ==========================' ======================================================================== From: depeche@binkley.cs.mcgill.ca. (Acme Instant Dehydrated Boulder Kit) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 92 14:24:32 EST Subject: c program run. run program, run! Trapped this somewhere off the net. Disclaimer: I did not write it!! I also haven't run it, so I don't know what it does. I thought it was cute, and since A.G. is an important symbol to ectophiles, it fits. #include long a [4],b[ 4],c[4] ,d[0400],e=1; typedef struct f{long g ,h,i[4] ,j;struct f*k;}f;f g,* l[4096 ]; char h[256],*m,k=3; long n (o, p,q)long*o,*p,*q;{ long r =4,s,i=0;for(;r--;s=i^ *o^*p, i=i&*p|(i|*p)&~*o++,*q ++=s,p ++);return i;}t(i,p)long*p ;{*c=d [i],n(a,c,b),n(p,b,p);}u(j)f*j;{j->h =(j->g =j->i[0]|j->i[1]|j->i[2]|j->i[3])&4095;}v( j,s)f* j; {int i; for(j->k->k&&v(j->k, ' '),fseek( stdin, j->j, 0);i=getchar(),putchar(i-'\n'?i:s),i- '\n';);}w(o,r,j,x,p)f*o,*j;long p;{f q;int s,i=o->h;q.k=o;r>i?j=l[r=i]:r>1, s|=s >>2,s|=s>>4,s |=s>>8 ,j=l[r =((r&i |s)&~(s>>1))-1&i]):0;--x;for (;x&&!(p&i);p>>=1);for(;!x&&j;n(o->i,j->i,q. i),u(&q),q.g||(q.j=j->j,v(&q,'\n')),j=j->k);for(;x;j=x ?j->k:0){for(;!j&&((r=(r&i)-1&i)-i&&(r&p)?2:(x=0));j=l[r]);! x||(j->g&~o->g)||n (o->i,j->i,q.i)||( u(&q), q.j=j ->j,q.g?w(&q ,r,j->k,x ,p):v(&q, '\n')); }}y(){f j;char *z,*p; for(;m ? j.j= ftell( stdin) ,7,(m= gets(m ))||w( &g,315 *13,l[ 4095] ,k,64* 64)&0: 0;n(g .i,j.i, b)||(u (&j),j. k=l[j.h],l[j.h]= &j,y())){for(z= p=h;*z&&( d[*z++]||(p=0)););for(z=p?n(j.i ,j.i,j.i)+h:""; *z;t(*z++,j.i));}}main(o,p)char** p; {for(;m = *++p;)for(;*m- '-'?*m:(k= -atoi(m))&0;d[*m]||(d[*m ]=e,e<<=1),t(*m++,g.i)); u(& g),m=h ,y();} -- | Alan Ezust depeche@cs.mcgill.ca McGill University Computer Science | |------------------------Montreal, Quebec, Canada (?)------------------------| | I'm not much of a night person. I'm *definitely* not a morning person. | | I'm not really an afternoon person either. Does this mean I'm a nobody? | ======================================================================== From: depeche@binkley.cs.mcgill.ca. (Acme Instant Dehydrated Boulder Kit) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 92 14:27:18 EST Subject: oh here it is Just found out what the program does, and who wrote it... Here are the docs: Most Humorous Output: Andreas Gustafsson Andreas Gustafsson Helsinki University of Technology Arentikuja 1 D 305 (home address) 00410 Helsinki FINLAND Judges' comments: To make: make ag Determine where your system dictionary is located. You may find it located in one of the following places: /usr/dict/words /usr/share/lib/spell/words /usr/ucblib/dict/words /dev/null <-- for machines with nothing to say Then using the proper dictionary: ag free software foundation < /usr/dict/words ag obfuscated c contest < /usr/dict/words ag unix international < /usr/dict/words ag george bush < /usr/dict/words ag bill clinton < /usr/dict/words ag ross perot < /usr/dict/words ag paul e tsongas < /usr/dict/words Recently some newspapers printed amusing anagrams of one of the names listed above. Run this program to find the anagrams they weren't allowed to print! Selected notes from the author: The name of the game: AG is short for either Anagram Generator or simply AnaGram. It might also be construed to mean Alphabet Game, and by pure coincidence it happens to be the author's initials. What it does: AG takes one or more words as arguments, and tries to find anagrams of those words, i.e. words or sentences containing exactly the same letters. How to use it: To run AG, you need a dictionary file consisting of distinct words in the natural language of your choice, one word on each line. If your machine doesn't have one already, you can make your own dictionary by concatenating a few hundred of your favourite Usenet articles and piping them through the following obfuscated shell script: #!/bin/sh z=a-z];tr [A-Z\] \[$z|sed s/[\^$z[\^$z*/_/g|tr _ \\012|grep ..|sort -u Using articles from alt.folklore.computers is likely to make a more professional-looking dictionary than rec.arts.erotica. AG must be run with the dictionary file as standard input. Because anagrams consisting of just a few words are generally more meaningful than those consisting of dozens of very short words, the number of words in the anagrams is limited to 3 by default. This limit can be changed using a numeric command line option, as in "ag -4 international obfuscated c code contest Subject: Today's your birthday friend... HAPPY BIRTHDAY to Jens Brage!! (Scorpio Rising is my favorite 10M song) Vickie ======================================================================== Subject: Re: Tori Date: Sun, 08 Nov 92 03:58:09 -0500 From: jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu Pablo Iglesias writes: >I read it and found to my amazement that she >had studied at Peabody in her early youth. Could someone tell me is >she is from Baltimore? I have never heard any mention of her in this >area (although I am fairly new to the city). As one might guess, Tori is originally from South Carolina ("Do you know Carolina / where the biscuit soft and sweet"), but her family moved to the Washington, DC area when she was still rather young. I believe they actually lived in Potomac, a mostly affluent suburb to the north west. I believe Tori started at the conservatory when she was quite young (the age of 5 or 6 springs to mind) and she was kicked out a few years later. Tori got her public performance career started by playing gay clubs around DC (I've *no* idea which ones!); her father, a minister of some sort, would arrange the gigs for her. Jeff ======================================================================== Date: Sun, 8 Nov 92 4:33:48 EST From: WretchAwry Subject: Re: ECTO POLL RESULTS > Doug, I agree with everything you've written about this "number two" > thing... (I take it this is some sort of referendum you people had at > the same time as the presidential election? Could someone fill in us > foreigners on it's details? It would make the recent discussion a little > easier to follow.) I'll let someone else explain referendums & such, but I did want to say that it is sometimes hard to remember that readers in other countries have no idea what the deal is. I tend to throw things out all the time that probably make people (not just non-Americans) scratch their heads, and if I do, I wish people would call me up on it. Most times I do it without thinking about it. Another thing, sometimes I'm not sure what people know and don't know, and I hate coming off sounding as if I'm insulting anyone's intelligence. I was going to post something awhile ago and deleted it because I thought it might get some "duh?" responses, but on the off-chance that some non-Americans/Canadians might not know this, I'll go ahead. If every single person on Ecto knows this, forgive me please. Arkansas and Kansas are two different states. They're close to each other, but don't share a border (Arkansas is southeast of Kansas.) I have no idea where the "Ar" came from, or why the "kansas" part is pronounced like "kan-saw" in Arkansas. My total knowledge of Arkansas comes from having camped there as a child (it's a very pretty state and has tons of ticks) and from the recent campaign (toning down everything Bill Clinton said about the state, and believing exactly the opposite of everything George Bush said about the state.) Kansas though, I was born and raised there. Not all flat...saw the best sunset and sunrise ever there, in two different parts of the state... greatest lightning storms in the world...yes, tornados...way too conservative...hell to drive across (unless you're heading through the Flint Hills in the south central part of the state...that's where I saw the sunset)...best part's in the far northeast...Dorothy may have come from there, but I've *never* seen a dog like Toto...um... well...can't think of anything else....oh, it used to be the geographical center of the United States, but I think the continent shifted, because the center is in Missouri now, if I remember right... Oh yeah! My son is going to college there! > New people, hope you aren't too surprised by ecto's diversity! Or weirdness :-) > Martin (sitting back and enjoying intelligent discussion) Me too! Thank you Steve, Doug, Mitch, Cathy and Harry! Vickie ======================================================================== Date: Sun, 8 Nov 92 11:22:37 EST From: David N. Blank-Edelman Subject: Maybe we aren't waking up Whew, I finally have some time to respond to this really great topic. From: dbx@olympic.atmos.colostate.edu (Doug Burks): > Exactly! So why not extend those rights to _everyone_? Why do we > have to go through this whole rigamarole every time a group finds > its identity? Blacks in the 1860s and 1960s, women in the 1910s and > 1970s ... Why not enshrine these rights in societal conscience and > law, making sure that _no one_ is discriminated against for _any_ > reason? Let's do it all in one shot, instead of fighting these > draining battles decade after decade after decade. I agree, this certainly would be the most ideal thing to do, but unfortunately it is impossible to just wave a magic wand (or make a law) and *poof* all discimination is outlawed. I can think of several reasons why this is impractical: 1) taking on the whole of human/societal prejudice is an overwhelming, and I would argue, impossible goal. I think we really have to identify its components and dismantle them step by step (in smaller, albeit draining, battles). 2) How would you phrase "no discrimination for any reason" without specifying ways of discriminating? Wouldn't this leave a law that was so hopelessly vague that it would be impossible to enforce for the individual cases of discrimination being prosecuted? They absolutely require clear,concise language when being used in the court system. 3) How do you phrase such a thing and still take into account the notion that there are segments of people in this society who are legally discriminated against (convicted criminals, children, etc)? > To ask the question extremely bluntly, why should it be okay for an > employer to discriminate against a white man, but not against a gay > man? Good, I'm glad you brought up what looks like an "affirmative action" question. The rationale that I use when I support aa type discrimination (to discriminate is not always a negative thing) is as follows: the goal, as Doug stated, is to create a society where there is no discrimination. In that society, things like hiring decisions would be made in a fair, and *balanced* manner (balanced is a key word for what follows). Unfortunately, the society we live in right now has for many years discriminated against certain segments of our society (all of the ones named in Doug's first paragraph). Because our society is so unbalanced in this regard, it is necessary to swing the other direction for a period of time until things are capable of reaching the equilibrium we all strive for. How does this tie in with the original topic? In my opinion, laws directed towards rectifying discrimination imbalances for specific groups are necessary because of society's imbalance. We can't just say "ok, tomorrow all discrimination is illegal", and expect things to actually become peachy-keen. I hope and dream for the day when we can take these things off the books because they seem so silly ("oh, you mean they used to actually discriminate against someone for their sexual preference? Who would have though of such a thing?") On that day maybe Doug's suggestion would work. > Unfortunately for the gay cause, gays have a closet to hide in, > creating their own insular almost secret society. Unlike women, > blacks, and other "visible" minorities, they have the option to > avoid the hate, avoid the ridicule. An intersting thought. I guess I would ammend it to say "they have the option to avoid the personally directed hate and ridicule". I don't think they can escape feeling persecuted in this society. Movies, TV, and yes, music all continue to this day to deny them their dignity. > However, I _strongly_ feel that curing that injustice through even > positive discrimination only makes things worse. It just creates > yet another group of people who feel discriminated against, another > set of victims. I disagree becuase I see the victimization and discrimination has already taken place and continues to do so. Addressing it with one of the only tool that society has to change societal norms is a good thing in my opinion. > A just fair society can not be built on an unjust unfair base. I heartily agree, but I think we have to use this sort of thing to bring us back to a place where we can begin to build a fair base. Peace, dNb ======================================================================== The ecto archives are on hardees.rutgers.edu in ~ftp/pub/hr. There is an INDEX file explaining what is where. Feel free to send me things you'd like to have added. -- jessica (jessica@ns1.rutgers.edu)