Errors-To: owner-ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Reply-To: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Sender: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu From: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu To: ecto-request@ns1.rutgers.edu Bcc: ecto-digest-outbound@ns1.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto #558 ecto, Number 558 Tuesday, 4 May 1993 Today's Topics: *-----------------* Happer's Comet This Mortal Coil? Thanks! I'm travelling without music Re: ecto #556 Re: your mail Re: soundtracks Re: My unclose encounter with Ingrid and other stories Paperhouse Call for submissions: Ectophilia starting with H ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 4 May 93 0:42:18 EDT From: WretchAwry Subject: Happer's Comet HAPPY BIRTHDAY to Gray & Tamar!! Vickie ======================================================================== From: Tree of Schnopia Subject: This Mortal Coil? Date: Tue, 4 May 93 0:47:10 EDT I just got an enthralling CD by This Mortal Coil. I know a fair amount about "them" already, but can anyone give me a detailed description of "them?" Thanks. Oh, and about the philosophy/science discussion: I think the main problem people (including me) have with AI is that they confuse Intelligence with Life. People rebel at the idea of an Intelligent machine, when what they really dislike is the idea of a Live machine. I, too, rebel at the idea of a Live machine, and I don't think it's something we can truly accomplish yet. An Intelligent machine is possible, but the intelligence would reach a point where it's no longer any closer to human intelligence than animal intelligence...it would be of a comparable level, but it wouldn't be of the same nature. For reference, I'm an agnostic with a strong affinity for Nature worship. I like to think of everything as One to some degree, which is why I'm not overly fond of mathematical explanations: they quantify by their very nature, and to quantify is to separate and divide. Do I sound anything like Jorn? :) Drewcifer ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 4 May 93 00:19:19 PDT From: stevev@miser.uoregon.edu (Steve VanDevender) Subject: This Mortal Coil? Tree of Schnopia writes: > Oh, and about the philosophy/science discussion: I think the main problem > people (including me) have with AI is that they confuse Intelligence with > Life. People rebel at the idea of an Intelligent machine, when what they > really dislike is the idea of a Live machine. I, too, rebel at the idea of > a Live machine, and I don't think it's something we can truly accomplish > yet. An Intelligent machine is possible, but the intelligence would reach a > point where it's no longer any closer to human intelligence than animal > intelligence...it would be of a comparable level, but it wouldn't be of the > same nature. I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "live" here. Of course, I just noticed that you admit that you have a hard time distinguishing between the notions of life and intelligence. I do agree that machine intelligence will be a much different thing than human intelligence. If we just look at intelligence as the ability to model and predict behavior in the outside world, then I think that the ability to sense and manipulate greatly affects the character of intelligence. A machine intelligence will have very different senses and abilities than organic life. > For reference, I'm an agnostic with a strong affinity for Nature worship. I > like to think of everything as One to some degree, which is why I'm not > overly fond of mathematical explanations: they quantify by their very > nature, and to quantify is to separate and divide. Mathematics also has a tremendous ability to unify and simplify. Mathematics does not just pick things apart, but also attempts to find the simplest and most powerful ways of describing abstract relationships. Mathematics is nothing more than reasoning with precision about the abstract; it is a source of wonder that so many things in mathematics correspond so well with aspects of reality. > Do I sound anything like Jorn? :) No, to do that you have to stop making sense and start insulting us if we disagree with you. Of course, by saying that I have probably given him fuel for another rant about how we call him nasty names in Ecto. I really wish I could have met him in Chicago when I was there last summer. I am curious to see what he is like in person; I have rarely met anyone who does not seem more likable in person than they do in e-mail. ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 04 May 93 09:55:29 BST From: GTP10@phx.cam.ac.uk Subject: Thanks! Many thanks to everyone who sent me birthday greetings both publicly and privately last Friday. This really is an amazing list - I have never met any of you (yet)... The day itself was pretty hectic. I had to travel down to London for a committee meeting in the morning, then back to Cambridge to teach in the afternoon, then back to London again to see/hear Jadis (great band!) play live. Tonight Maighread Ni Dhomnaill (sister of Triona) is playing in Cambridge. The new Clannad album is released today and, supposedly, the new Steve Hackett one. It's been a great few days musically. Geoff Parks ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 04 May 93 11:21:28 MEZ From: Dirk Kastens Subject: I'm travelling without music Hi, Belated Happy Birthdays to Geoff, Gray and Tamar! Welcome to all the new Ectophiles! Klaus asked: >We met a couple of times after that, either at other panels or in one >of the bars, talked a bit and swapped some CDs. I'm wondering, is >there any Ectophile who is travelling without music? Well, I do. I own neither a walkman nor a discman nor any other portable music playing facilities. This might derive from the fact that I don't travel that much. And when I'm on vacation I find it a kind of refreshing to escape from my CD collection for a while. Not to forget the anticipated joy when I'm on the way back home. But there are always songs playing in my mind. I'm able to recall every song I want, provided that I know it well enough. I remember me standing on the balcony of our hotel in Portugal watching the sun go down and listening to Tori's _Sugar_ playing in my mind in super holophonic sound. It was amazing. Walkmen can really be conversation killers. I made the experience during our excursions in Simbabwe and Portugal. In the evenings many students were sitting on the veranda or lying on their beds with the phones in their ears, totally absent. Not that I was envious, I wanted to talk or to go out, but they didn't :-( WRT SF in music: Klaus, this would be an interesting topic for the KlangArt Festival here in Osnabrueck. It's too late for the next one which will happen in three weeks (can't await it, I bought a festival ticket and I will see all of the concerts, like Kraftwerk, Steve Roach, Jasper van't Hof, etc. etc :-), but you can try it in two years. They are discussing lots of music theoretical items during the congress. Dirk ------------------------------------------------------------------------ || \\\\\ || ///// | dkastens@dosuni1.rz.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE || ))))) IRK || ((((( ASTENS | "Music's the way, the only way I know" || ///// || \\\\\ | Happy Rhodes ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 3 May 93 15:02:12 est From: ajs@jloda.cci.com (Alan Sodoma) Here are all the Peter Gabriel dates that I swiped from the genesis list: Peter Gabriel Secret World Tour of North America Date City On Sale 6/18 Rochester, NY 5/15 <----We're havin' a party!! :-) 6/19 HArtford, CT 5/8 6/20 Worcester, MA 4/29 6/22 LAndover, Maryland 5?8 6/23 E. Rutherford, NJ tba 6/24 NYC 4/30 6/26 Toronto, Ont 5/15 6/28 Montrel 5/15 6/29 Quebec 5/15 7/2 Auburn Hills, MI tba 7/3 Cleveland, OH tba 7/6 Pittsburgh, PA 5/15 7/7-8 Philly, PA 5/15 7/10 Chicago, IL 4/30 7/11 Minneapolis, MN tba (as are all the rest) 7/14 Calgary/Edmonton (TBA) 7/16 Vancouver, BC 7/17 Tacoma, WA 7/19 Sacramento, CA 7/20 Oakland, CA 7/22 LA, CA (OOPS, The L.A. dates go on sale 5/8) 7/23 San Diego, CA 7/24 Pheonix, AZ 7/26 Salt Lake City, UT 7/27 Denver, CO 7/29 Dallas, TX 7/30 Houston, TX 8/1 TBA 8/3 Orlando, FL 8/4 Miami, FL Al Sodoma ======================================================================== Subject: Re: ecto #556 From: metatron!joe@dogface.austin.tx.us (Joe Zitt) Date: Tue, 04 May 93 03:50:20 CDT Bob: Yo! I'm from Cherry Hill, too -- CHHSWest Class of '76. Anyone: What on earth is "Tori's YKTR"? "You could be an ocarina salesman going | Metatron Press | Austin, Texas! from door to door..." -- Laurie Anderson | Human Systems Performance Group ======================================================================== From: boek@mullian.ee.mu.oz.au (Christopher Boek) Subject: Re: your mail Date: Tue, 4 May 1993 20:58:17 +1000 (EST) PG dates as posted .... > 7/16 Vancouver, BC > 7/17 Tacoma, WA > 7/19 Sacramento, CA > 7/20 Oakland, CA > 7/22 LA, CA > (OOPS, The L.A. dates go on sale 5/8) > 7/23 San Diego, CA > 7/24 Pheonix, AZ > 7/26 Salt Lake City, UT > 7/27 Denver, CO > 7/29 Dallas, TX > 7/30 Houston, TX > 8/1 TBA > 8/3 Orlando, FL > 8/4 Miami, FL Thanks to Alan for posting this gem of information ... Hi there people! I have a Biiiiig favour to ask any of you who are planning on making it to any of these shows. The 22nd in LA sounds really good (I'm not aware of ever seeing things posted from LA in ecto before though - PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong :) ) as I will be passing over the US sometime in the above time window, and would like to stop at one of those places and see a show. Obviously LA's the best, as my plane would probably have to stop there anyway, and around the 22nd is probably the ideal time. Anyway, I would like to ask if anybody could buy me a ticket, and I will send the cash over pronto. It's not definite that I'll be going as yet, so I could be wasting my money, but I'm prepared to take a chance in order to get into one of these shows :) :). You see, I'm going to Holland, and he's already been there, and he won't be Aus until November :( :(. It's my _only_ chance. I'm prepared to go to great lengths to see the show ... help ..... please ..... reply if you can ..... Thank you several billion for even reading my request !!!! Chris. -- | ||| ||| | ||| ||| ||| | ||Christopher Boek - boek@mullian.ee.mu.oz.au | ||| ||| | ||| ||| ||| | || Dept Elec Eng Univ of Melbourne Australia | | | | | | | | | / "Anybody remotely interesting is mad in |___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___| \_/\_/\_/\_/\__/(:*- some way or another" ======================================================================== From: boek@mullian.ee.mu.oz.au (Christopher Boek) Subject: Re: soundtracks Date: Tue, 4 May 1993 21:03:00 +1000 (EST) Graham asks Re Laurie Anderson: > > What I want to know is... Does she ever get down to Australia? > Why is it that this seems ever to be the question .... ? :( I wish Suzanne Vega was coming down as well, but I doubt that too. Ah well *sigh* at least PG's coming down this time, even though I probably won't get to see him. Chris. -- | ||| ||| | ||| ||| ||| | ||Christopher Boek - boek@mullian.ee.mu.oz.au | ||| ||| | ||| ||| ||| | || Dept Elec Eng Univ of Melbourne Australia | | | | | | | | | / "Anybody remotely interesting is mad in |___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___| \_/\_/\_/\_/\__/(:*- some way or another" ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 04 May 93 09:23:24 -0500 From: "Dennis G Parslow" Subject: Re: My unclose encounter with Ingrid and other stories >DATE: Mon, 03 May 93 14:30:53 CDT >FROM: Survivor of unforseeable perturbations > >At a show, Suzanne Vega said between numbers: > >>In the last show I saw, "Some kids asked me about the Queen and the >>Soldier. After a couple questions, they said 'Were they the Queen and >>the Soldier dating?' Ummmmyeah, sort >>of...." > >Like it or lump it, I can easily visualize right-wing commentators like Paul >Harvey and Rush Limbaugh retelling this vignette with gusto once gays achieve >full parity in the American war machine :-) :-( Huh? I don't understand what you mean here. As for Paul Harvey, at one of the 10,000 Maniac shows I was at, in between songs, Natalie retold a Paul Harvey story that she was furious about: Basically, a kid brought his dead guniea pig in for The guinea pig was supposed to be alive for the show, of course, but had deemed not to cooperate about this point. And the kid actually won! Needless to say, Paul (not to be confused with PJ Harvey, of course) thought this unusual, and quite funny. Natalie was furious about this guy who's so...so...so *Conservative*!!!!!! (You should have seen the look I got frim the woman in front of me on the way out when I told my friend that "I realize Paul Harvey was Conservative." ;-) Later Dennis Parslow I saw you from the cathedral Troy, NY 12180 Well, I'm an ancient heart p00421@psilink.com Tanita Tikaram ======================================================================== Date: 04 May 1993 09:47:54 -0400 (EDT) From: "she listens like her head's on fire.." Subject: This Mortal Coil? Drewcifer! What is this enthralling cd by This Mortal Coil?! I'm interested in them but I don't know much about them and the only cds around here are $21. I might splurge sometime but I would like to know more about them. Happy Rhodes stuff. I went down to Record Theater and asked why their Happy Rhodes bin has been empty for the past month.:-) The salesperson didn't know who she was and thought she was a local artist which meant he would have to special order or something. So I picked up the Billboard magazine lying there on the counter and showed him the review.... He called the manager who knew who she was,(!) as well as her record label and I convinced him that there are a few people around here that are interested in her. When they start stocking her, maybe I'll be able to get my cds back?;-) So he said he would order Ecto for me. One more week of school left. I have made concessions to the weather by either wearing summer clothes with a winter jacket or winter clothes with a summer jacket. In 1989 it snowed on May 7 and I will be prepared for any eventuality. enough rambling... Quenby ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 4 May 1993 10:32:16 -0400 (EDT) From: consid Subject: Paperhouse I noticed that Happy lists "Paperhouse" as one of her favorite films. I can't recommend this film enough! It is out on video and has played on Cinemax a few times. It's an extremely haunting, weirdly beautiful film about a little girl who finds the things she draws come to life. Definitely a must-see. A close friend of mine who works in a record store said they broadcast the WDET performance in the store, and sold a few Happy CDs to people who wanted to know, "Who IS this? It's great!" -The other Susanne ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 4 May 1993 07:44:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Ectophiles Guide Subject: Call for submissions: Ectophilia starting with H Hello to everyone! Here is the next call for submissions to An Ectophiles Guide to Good Music. This is an open call for opinions about artists/groups whose names start with H. The idea of the Guide is to let us share our musical enthusiasms with each other. **The important thing is you being able to share what you think is important about this music.** Please, everyone, send at least your opinions of these artists. We welcome any and all participation and would like to receive as many opinions on as many artists as possible. Please respond with to: ethelred@u.washington.edu by Wednesay, May 19. Deadline for responses to F&G is May 12. Late responses will likely not make it into the first edition of the Guide. --------The Ectophiles Guide to Artists starting with H-------- THE ARTISTS: Astrid Hadad, Nina Hagen, Haris, Roy Harper, P.J. Harvey, Ofra Haza, The HeartThrobs, Heavenly Bodies, Nona Hendryx, Hetch Hetchy, Hex, Sara Hickman, Tish Hinojosa, Becky Hobbs, Robin Holcomb, Myra Holder, Anna Homler, Penelope Houston, Hugo Largo, Sonya Hunter, Lida Husik THE FORM: Name of artist (Band/Singer): Country of origin: Type of music (ethereal/rock/folk) generally: Covers/own material?: Other groups artist has played with [for See also section]: Comparisons: Recommended first album: Recordings: Title: Year of Release: Label & Country (and address if indie): Catalogue #s: Availability (mention country if applicable): Ecto priority (must have/recommended/recommended for certain tastes [please specify]): Group Members/ Backing Musicians: Comments (please keep brief as you can while still including the information/description you feel is necessary): Do you own this recording? [answer will not appear in actual guide]: --[please repeat recording info for each recording you want to talk about]-- Further info (eg. fan club address): NOTES: --Please respond with one artist per message. It will make it way easier for us to sort through incoming messages). If you can use the artist's/ group's name as the subject line that will help even more. --Our aim is to give you a chance to share info about the music that interests you (and that doesn't) and why--to help to other ectophiles looking for new music. --We included a comparisons section because even though in principle we don't like them, in practice they're useful. --Unless you request otherwise, your name & email address will be attached to the subjective stuff. --Please use smilies to indicate any sarcasm or humour(!!). --Don't feel compelled to fill in each section if it's awkward for you to get the info. If we have blanks we can try to fill them in later. This isn't meant to be a discography of each artist--its main function is to give us a more organized way of letting each other know about artists we love and want to talk about and think other ectophiles might be interested in (or might need to be warned about). --If an artist has a number of albums please give quick reviews of each that you feel you can talk about. --We reserve the right to (carefully, gently) edit responses. --Please send responses only to ethelred@u.washington.edu; send comments/questions to neile@u.washington.edu or marylou@bnr.ca --Deadline for H's: May 19. Late messages will be accepted, but likely won't appear in the first edition of the guide. ------------------------------- Again, please respond with one artist per message by May 19 to ethelred@u.washington.edu Thanks to you all. Eagerly anticipating your responses... --The Ectophiles Guide Crew (volunteers welcome :) ) If you have questions or comments please email: Neile Graham (neile@u.washington.edu) or Mary Lou Rowe (marylou@bnr.ca) ======================================================================== From: Tree of Schnopia Subject: This Mortal Coil? Date: Tue, 4 May 93 11:29:04 EDT Forwarded message: > From V115P8D6@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu Tue May 4 10:03:19 1993 > Date: 04 May 1993 09:47:54 -0400 (EDT) > From: "she listens like her head's on fire.." > Subject: This Mortal Coil? > To: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu > Message-Id: <01GXRTK3R8D48WXAWZ@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu> > Organization: University at Buffalo > X-Vms-To: IN%"ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu" > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > > Drewcifer! > > What is this enthralling cd by This Mortal Coil?! I'm interested in them > but I don't know much about them and the only cds around here are $21. > I might splurge sometime but I would like to know more about them. It's just called This Mortal Coil. Apparently it's a sample from the forthcoming box set, and I didn't notice till after I bought it for $8 that it's marked For Promotional Use Only, etc. etc. Whoops! Still, what's done is done, and it's quite cool. It seems to be covers by 4AD artists, including Kim Deal, Tanya Donnelly, Elisabeth Fraser, and lots more. Drewcifer ======================================================================== The ecto archives are on hardees.rutgers.edu in ~ftp/pub/hr. There is an INDEX file explaining what is where. Feel free to send me things you'd like to have added. -- jessica (jessica@ns1.rutgers.edu)