Errors-To: owner-ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Reply-To: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Sender: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu From: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu To: ecto-request@ns1.rutgers.edu Bcc: ecto-digest-outbound@ns1.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto #507 ecto, Number 507 Saturday, 27 March 1993 Today's Topics: *-----------------* Re: Grammar Police - Thursday 3/25/93 12:57 PM ecto fete --- details? Re: some samples, from martin! Kleine Erdbeben Sound samples Re: hard to understand kd lang on Unplugged reminder white room long shot Life experiences in the last 12 hours or so Cherie Camp ======================================================================== From: "Michael Blackmore" Date: 25 Mar 93 15:46:23 EST Subject: Re: Grammar Police - Thursday 3/25/93 12:57 PM > Possessives??? :-) > > > "Sander's not in, Bill's studying, and Michael doesn't want > > to speak with you until he know's who you are." > ^^^^^^ > > Normally, I would have resisted the temptation... :-) > > Kjetil T. > Eeeeeeekkkkkk! I'm so imperfect! Clearly it was Dan Quayle possessing my brain! Yeah, that's it. Dan Quayle! I couldn't have possibly made such an error! ;-) - Michael B. *************************MICHAEL BLACKMORE************************** "Sander's not in, Bill's studying, and Michael doesn't want to speak with you until he knows who you are." -Answering Machine Message in My Apartment Michael B (michaelb@ksgrsch.harvard.edu) ****************A TRADITION OF EXCELLENCE SINCE 1963**************** ======================================================================== Date: 25 Mar 93 16:07:43 EST From: Mike Mendelson Subject: ecto fete --- details? Well, I haven't heard anything about this in a while, and my understanding was that it was not set in concrete yet, so... are there any more definite details about this ecto fete party or gathering or whatever it is in Montreal? Specifically, when (April 8 has been mentioned), where (like an address, phone number, directions), time? I will be unable to check email after Friday April 2, which is about a week away, and since things are usually on about a one day delay getting to me (due to digest), I want to make sure I get this info sooner than later. I'm sure other people are in the same boat. I hope it is still going to happen! -mjm (mike mendelson) P.S. Just in case, here is my phone number in Montreal: (514) 482-4019 ======================================================================== Subject: Re: some samples, from martin! Date: Thu, 25 Mar 93 18:48:57 -0500 From: Michael Matthews >athena.sdsu.edu [1] carries a lot of sounds, including complete >samples of songs in the Sun .au format (which is the same as NeXT's >.snd). Since .au is very low-quality (8 bit logarithmic at 8000Hz as >opposed to 16 bit linear 44100Hz on a CD), each second of music needs >8kB storage, so a typical song needs 2MB :-) Just some minor nitpicks, but NeXTs actually have several sound formats, 8kHz mulaw (Sun's .au format) one of them [quiet, Jeff]. It's also really giving you 12kHz with compression -- roughly the same quality as a telephone. Putting samples up is good and bad; good in that you get some neat sound clips, bad in that if people go overboard the FTP site may end up dropping all sounds and even their submissions directory. As long as there's some dialogue between the site administrator and whoever does the submissions (or, at least, some guidelines) I think it'd be a wonderful idea. You can even fairly easily convert whatever sound format gets chosen to just about anything else by using the "sox" program (and any front ends for your platform). >This looks like a good way of making Happy's music available to the >masses :-) I dare not suggest which song(s)... [3] I wouldn't put whole songs up there. That's what CD players are for. >What do you think??? I'd love to sample some of the clips, but my NeXT's mic port is so doggone sensitive, and a Digital Ears box is a little extravagent, even for me. >Kjetil T. ------ Mike Matthews, matthews@ectds.com (NeXTmail accepted) ------ As long as war is regarded as wicked, it will always have its fascination. When it is looked upon as vulgar, it will cease to be popular. -- Oscar Wilde ======================================================================== Subject: Kleine Erdbeben Date: Thu, 25 Mar 93 17:00:10 -0800 From: johnz@eaglet.rain.com That's "Little Earthquakes" for the German-impaired :) which is what woke me up here about 5:35 this morning -- an earthquake that is! My first one, and the damnedest thing I've ever experienced (actually, I managed to sleep through a similar one in 1981, but it must have been farther away). Said to have measured about 5.3 - 5.4 and centered about 30 miles south of Portland. I woke up to what seemed to be a particularly strange and vivid dream until I realized that my waterbed *was* shaking under me and that rumbling noise was for real. :} Things were pretty much over with by the time I was fully awake, and fortunately there have been no serious injuries and only very light damage, judging by news reports. JohnZ, who is feeling much better now... ======================================================================== From: Martin Dougiamas Subject: Sound samples Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1993 09:44:12 +0800 (WST) A quick note... The first set of samples I did (the ones now on hardees) are all from Warpaint. One thing I forgot to mention was that many of them are designed to be looped, ie you can play them over and over without any discernible join. Mobius samples, if you like. :-) I am slowly accumulating samples from the other albums, too, as I find spare snippets of time here and there. Now would be a good time to send me suggestions if you have any particular lines or bits of songs you would like have digitised. Especially if they serve as good concise introductions to Happy's music. Back to the hapless millions, Martin -- COOKERY: Amphibian Relish Cover the toad in syrup and flour paste to slow it down, parcel it up in brown paper and serve tied securely onto the plate. Eat quickly. (It isn't very nice.) -- From Dr. Fegg's Encyclopaedia of *All* World Knowledge. ======================================================================== From: Kjetil Torgrim Homme Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1993 02:46:09 +0100 Subject: Re: some samples, from martin! Michael Matthews says: > Just some minor nitpicks, but NeXTs actually have several sound formats, > 8kHz mulaw (Sun's .au format) one of them [quiet, Jeff]. It's also > really giving you 12kHz with compression -- roughly the same quality as > a telephone. Sorry - yes, I know a NeXT can play sounds with CD-quality. Nitpicking the nitpick: 8-bit logarithmic ~= 12-bit linear. (For the non-techies: The sampling frequency must be twice the highest note you should hear, 8kHz is good enough for voice. The resolution determines the noise level. Nice rule of thumb: # bits * 6 == # dB S/N. A cassette is 50, an LP is 60, and a Sun is 70 (so it is very good for Ivan Rebroff with no accompaniment 8-) > I wouldn't put whole songs up there. That's what CD players are for. I have quite the opposite view. What good is a clip? It serves no purpose whatsoever, unless it is so short it can be used as a system beep if you are cursed with a Mac ;-) Kjetil T. ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 25 Mar 93 21:41:18 EST From: WretchAwry Subject: Re: Kleine Erdbeben > That's "Little Earthquakes" for the German-impaired :) which is > what woke me up here about 5:35 this morning -- an earthquake that > is! My first one, and the damnedest thing I've ever experienced > (actually, I managed to sleep through a similar one in 1981, but it > must have been farther away). Said to have measured about 5.3 - 5.4 > and centered about 30 miles south of Portland. I woke up to what > seemed to be a particularly strange and vivid dream until I realized > that my waterbed *was* shaking under me and that rumbling noise was > for real. :} Things were pretty much over with by the time I was > fully awake, and fortunately there have been no serious injuries > and only very light damage, judging by news reports. > > JohnZ, who is feeling much better now... WOW! I'm so glad you're ok! *HUG*! Vickie ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 26 Mar 93 2:29:10 EST From: WretchAwry Subject: Re: hard to understand SteveL writes: > Well, what do our SO's think of Happy? MyguyChris isn't into Happy at *all* though he does like the song "I Am A Legend". _He_ thinks she's weird. Her beliefs, not her music. Steve, thank you for a wonderful post. > Several have commented that Happy is depressing and/or intense. > Some find it depressing; I find it serene but moving. Same here. *HUG* (for your son and you're friend's wife. Those paragraphs were beautiful and sad. I'm at a loss for words. Just....*HUG*) > Pardon me for saying this, but it's been on my mind: If any of us were > to do suicide, it would be a denial of the terribly strong and lasting > effect it has on those around us. Since I went on and on about my own suicidal thoughts, I'm going to take this personally and answer as if you were writing about me. I know...intellectually and I know it mentally (because I know how much Chris really, truly loves me and how devestated he'd be, and because I wouldn't want to leave my son with that legacy, and because my dad would blame himself, and because of all the support I've gotten here.) Emotionally, well, that's a different story. ("All I can do is beg her to stay") I've often thought that It's a Good Thing I'm selfish and weak, and that I don't believe in reincarnation (though I don't know what the "rules" are in reincarnation, if suicides can be reincarnated.) > And it would be a deep betrayal of Happy Rhodes. Yes, I believe that too. It's *SO* hard to talk about suicide to other people, which is why I shake my head in awe at the way Happy was able to express so many of the familiar (to me) feelings about it in her songs. Depressing? Not to me either. Familiar, definitely. I don't need to be enlightened about suicidal thoughts, but it occured to me that perhaps other people might be enlightened by some of these songs. Enlightened about what goes through a suicidal depressive's mind. Anybody? Do they make people who haven't been that far gone uncomfortable? I've always been curious about that, what folks think about Happy's suicide songs. Or do they strike some kind of familiar note in most people? I mean, does the thought of suicide, or at least curiousity about it, cross *everyone's* mind at some point or another in their lives? Even if just for a few seconds? (I guess, because I'm so...uh..."abnormal" I am curious what...uh..."normal" people think. Look, I'd actually be insulted if someone called *me* "normal" but I don't mean it as an insult, honestly. It's just shorter to type than "anyone-who-hasn't- suffered-from-true-clinical-depression-with-suicidal-tendancies" ok?) Of course, those who *have* suffered from true clinical depression with suicidal tendancies can join in too. Oh you see, I get all flustered and can't make sense when I try to talk about this stuff. I fear being thought of as weird. I fear people pulling away because they just don't know what to say (sometimes there are no words that can be said. A simple *hug* is always good enough for me, and is much, *much* better than total silence.) I fear that people will worry too much that I'd actually *do* it if I talk about it. I won't. I don't want to die. It's hard to explain how and why I can think about it, all the time, nearly every day, when I have no intentions of going through with it. First, I don't think about it on purpose, the thoughts just come. I can't help it. Second (and this is the *really* unusual one), the thought of suicide is/can be a comfort. (I can see that line causing countless dropped jaws and head-scratching.) The knowledge that there's always a way out gives me comfort. The knowledge that it's the *ultimate* way out keeps me from doing it. The knowledge that I'll never do it means that I can think about it "safely" and the comfort gives me strength. I can't really explain it any better than that. Luckily my mental illness (and depression *is* a mental illness, even though Happy doesn't like me saying that she "struggled with mental illness") is such that I most definitely *do* have control over what I _do_ even though I don't always have control over what I _think_, or much more often, _feel_. Well, hmmm, that's not....mmmm...quite right, because how I _feel_ very often affects how I _act_. Still, the bottom line is that, no matter what I'm _thinking_, I can control myself and *not* commit suicide, which is why I don't worry about the fact that I think about it all the time. Am I making sense? I know that it's just a by-product of the depression, as is my crying, which I also don't worry about. (Actually, my crying has decreased dramatically since I started taking anti-depression medication. I've figured out that one of the ingredients drys up my system, because besides not having tears, my mouth and nose are also very dry most of the time.) If it weren't 1:19am I might be able to think of other things to say about this. But it is, and I'm tired and I should go to bed. That's all class. :-) > I am glad that some of you dump on this group some of your pains. I am too, even though I always worry when I do it myself. I shouldn't worry, and I know that. I worry too much. :-) > Expressing your concerns helps you work through problems > (works for me). An accepting group who listens is a big help. It is > an important activity that is denied to too many. Many in this > group have expressed an uncommon degree of concern and support. Maybe > there is a growing force of people who care. Yes, it's good... Very very good indeed. > Trying to do my part to ease some of the pain and ignorance around us, > Ciao, Steve *Hugs* to you and all, g'night. Vickie ps, I haven't forgotten anybody. There are still lots of things I want to, and will, respond to. (I'm *sure* you're all waiting with baited breath :-)) (Gary Nichols, you're one of 'em!) ======================================================================== Subject: Re: some samples, from martin! Date: Fri, 26 Mar 93 10:36:15 -0500 From: Michael Matthews Kjetil Torgrim Homme sez: >Michael Matthews says: >> I wouldn't put whole songs up there. That's what CD players are for. >I have quite the opposite view. What good is a clip? It serves no >purpose whatsoever, unless it is so short it can be used as a system >beep if you are cursed with a Mac ;-) I don't think that digitizing sounds and spreading them around is a good idea. For one thing, the quality won't be all that good and it may give a psychologically motivated bad first impression. Second, you're talking about moving a whole LOT of data around, which is a waste. I figured that to send all of Happy's music at CD quality stereo, it would take .... .... some rather large number that escapes me at the moment (assuming a 60 minutes/CD average). My computer would crumble to dust before I could transfer all that data (well, maybe not...). SnailMail a sampler tape if you want to spread music. Clips, if done right, can be tantalizing enough to pique some further interest. Snag some of the quotes that ecto got peltered with :-) a while ago. Or, use short clips for any machine's system beep (Mac, NeXT, Windows ...). >Kjetil T. ------ Mike Matthews, matthews@ectds.com (NeXTmail accepted) ------ I have learned To spell hors d'oeuvres Which still grates on Some people's n'oeuvres. -- Warren Knox ======================================================================== From: special K Subject: kd lang on Unplugged reminder Date: Fri, 26 Mar 93 13:55:54 EST Don't miss kd on MTV's Unplugged on Sunday, March 28 at 10pm EST! Set your VCR's folx!!! special K ======================================================================== From: depeche@binkley.cs.mcgill.ca (S. A. Ezust) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 93 14:09:10 EST Subject: white room I've spent the last 4 days wearing the same clothes, and spending 14 hours each day at school. Yesterday night, I took a break, since I managed to finish one of my 3 assignments. I sat down and caught up on the ST:DS9 epsiode which was on last monday. But whenever I stopped the tape, my TV would show me what was on CBC-TV at that time. It was 10:48pm last night and CBC-Cinema Canada was airing a canadian film from 1990 called "WHITE ROOM" starring some people I never heard of, with Margot Kidder playing a character who gets killed off very early in the story. The story is about a female singer who has a voice which embodies all purity, and she writes songs which are hauntingly beautiful in every way. The singer, however, is mentally ill and is deathly afraid of crowds of fans. I won't give away any more of the story, in case you are interested in seeing it. But the reason I am writing about this is because the movie character sings songs in the movie, and these songs are beautiful!!! Very ecto-ish, if I may say so... A gorgeous voice which reminds me a little of Tori and and a little of Happy, actually. And the music is very original, with classical instruments mixed with synthesizers, and hardly any precussion. Anyway, there is really good ecto-music in this film! I have no idea who is the real singer, who wrote the songs, who did the instrumentation, etc. I can't find the soundtrack album anywhere. Well, if you haven't seen the film "White Room", do so. It may be impossible to find outside Canada, for all I know... I am going to see the first hour of it asap, since I missed it last night. And if you can figure out who sings, and if this woman has made any recordings, please post here!!! -- | Alan Ezust depeche@binkley.cs.mcgill.ca Montreal, Quebec, Canada | |------------- McGill University School of Computer Science ----------------| Chew your gum and close your eyes and nothing can annoy you. - E.Ka-Spel ======================================================================== Subject: long shot Date: Fri, 26 Mar 93 15:09:29 EST From: Angelos Kyrlidis Hi, Well it's probably totally futile and more appropriate to ask in r.m.industrial but I'll ask here first anyway... Has anybody here ever seen Einsturzende Neubauten live? What are their shows like? I am considering seeing them for historical reasons, and before I commit to going, I would like to know what to expect. ;-) Angelos 'Operator get me the hotline, father can you hear me at all? Telephone kiosk is out of order, spray can writing on the wall'-TRB ======================================================================== Subject: Re: hard to understand Date: Fri, 26 Mar 93 14:48:40 -0500 From: Michael Matthews I thought I'd throw my thoughts in, since I would be classified as "normal" under this strict definition (e.g. I've never seriously contemplated suicide). I've also never been personally hurt by a suicide (obviously, "personally" here means any direct contact with, as if I had true personal experience I wouldn't be typing this). Vicki asked about whether or not everyone (or anyone?) has thought about it, even briefly. The answer to that, for me, is definitely. It's been more curiousity, though (luckily, I'm not a cat, eh? :-) ). I've often wondered what would happen if I did, or what it would be like, or how someone could possibly do it (must take considerable amounts of courage, which is a bit ironic). I've always come to the rapid conclusion that suicide isn't an alterative, nor is it even worth considering, for me. I consider myself pretty lucky -- I'm fairly intelligent, have a real nice job, a caring mother, lots of friends, ... don't have an SO yet, but hey, I'm still young (this, by the way, does make for some depressing moments; wish I could glean the strength/whatever from listening to music the same way other people do), and I got lots o' neat toys to play with :-). I have known several friends who have thought about suicide, and someone I knew from high school killed herself on campus when I was there (UMCP), which shook me up a bit. I dunno. It's really hard for me to put my thoughts on this matter into words. I personally can't conceive of having *no* *other* *alternative* but I've also not been through all the hell that other folks have been through (my parents got divorced when I was young (12-), and it was a very nasty one -- Dad kept calling me worthless, and I didn't fully realize he was full of it until sophomore year in College; this seems minor compared to some of the things I've heard about). Vicki, your comments about thinking of suicide as comfort make perfect sense to me. Could it be that you find it comforting because you know you're strong enough to avoid it? [btw, *hug*] Enough rambling. I gotta get back to work. ------ Mike Matthews, matthews@ectds.com (NeXTmail accepted) ------ Tact is the ability to tell a man he has an open mind when he has a hole in his head. ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1993 15:35:14 CST From: Subject: Life experiences in the last 12 hours or so The "Today's Papers" feature on last night's _World News Now_ highlighted the cover story in the current (April 6 cover date) _Weekly World News_, about the putative "World's Biggest Cat"--78 pounds, "as much as an 11-year-old boy." The cover went on to note the Fluffy (his real name) eats 90 cans of tuna a week. Ann Compton, _WNN_'s substitute anchor this week, observed that her 11-year-old son could never be induced to eat that much tuna. This morning, while brunching on a hot pastrami sandwich at the Deli on Dearborn in the Printer's Row district, I heard a most pleasant and engaging female vocal on the audio system, but was at a loss to identify it. It sounded much like a track or two from Sinead O'Connor's _Lion and the Cobra_ album, but I still couldn't be sure, so I asked the cashier. She said she thought it was Joni Mitchell, but that she'd have to ask in the back to be sure. This she thereupon did. As fate would have it, we were both wrong (go figure how we could guess so differently about the same record, right or wrong). The true recording turned out to be Sara McLachlan's _Solace_. Seems to me that this is an establishment whose tastes in music have earned it the patronage of any ectophile who may be stricken by hunger pangs when passing through the South Loop. Mitch ---------------------- "Fuck the scabs! Long live the union! Save _Overnight_!" --Picketing striker and _NBC News Overnight_ viewer, November 1983 Quoted in Linda Ellerbee, _And So It Goes: Adventures in Television_ ======================================================================== From: depeche@binkley.cs.mcgill.ca (S. A. Ezust) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 93 17:58:42 EST Subject: Cherie Camp [In message "white room" on Mar 26, Depeche@cs.mcgill.ca wrote:] | | But the reason I am writing about this is because the movie character | sings songs in the movie, and these songs are beautiful!!! Very ecto-ish, | if I may say so... A gorgeous voice which reminds me a little of Tori and | and a little of Happy, actually. And the music is very original, with | classical instruments mixed with synthesizers, and hardly any precussion. Last night I was sitting awake trying to mentally re-play all the female singers that I had ever heard, because the voice in this movie actually reminded me of a particular singer which I must have heard sometime in the past. Well, I figured out who she most reminded me of... The lead singer of HEX. I used to know her name, but I don't any more... I know she used to be in another group, and I can't remember that either. Would someone please help me? Anyway, I then went to the local video store, rented the movie, and watched it again. The credits were readable on the video tape, while they were not when it was on TV, due to my cheap antenna. The singer's name is Cherie Camp, and the three songs in the movie were called Hello I'm Nobody [with instrumentation reminiscient of Mick Karn, and lyrics taken straight from Emily Dickinson] A Certain Slant Of Light Poor Tom If anyone has seen ANY music by this person, please tell me!!!!!!!!! -- | Alan Ezust depeche@binkley.cs.mcgill.ca Montreal, Quebec, Canada | |------------- McGill University School of Computer Science ----------------| Chew your gum and close your eyes and nothing can annoy you. - E.Ka-Spel ======================================================================== The ecto archives are on hardees.rutgers.edu in ~ftp/pub/hr. There is an INDEX file explaining what is where. Feel free to send me things you'd like to have added. -- jessica (jessica@ns1.rutgers.edu)