Errors-To: owner-ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Reply-To: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Sender: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu From: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu To: ecto-request@ns1.rutgers.edu Bcc: ecto-digest-outbound@ns1.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto #484 ecto, Number 484 Saturday, 13 March 1993 Today's Topics: *-----------------* Re: Tirk, play the game & AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH! Miranda Sex Garden You win some, you lose some 4 notes Ashokan Farewell finally in the know Re: Stuff [tm] albums bought...money-spending :) Today's your birthday friend.... Happy birthday ======================================================================== Subject: Re: Tirk, play the game & AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH! Date: Fri, 12 Mar 93 14:25:32 EST From: Angelos Kyrlidis Vickie hints: >Second....no, wait....I think I'll turn this into a gussing game. Happy >told me that the songs "Closer" and "Temporary and Eternal" were >originally inspired by films. (Notice I say "inspired by" *NOT* "based on" >so don't take that to mean that these films are what the songs are about.) What does one have to do to get the full bag of Equipoise info that Vickie has? ;) Guesses: For 'temporary and eternal' that comedy starring Merryl Streep and Albert(?) Brooks? [there's a he and a she, and they're both dead, if I remember correctly and they do look at life in rewind. :)] For 'Closer'.....Hmmmmmmm. No clue. Angelos (Tirk, eh? Cute name. What's the story behind it Vickie?) ======================================================================== Date: 12 Mar 1993 14:42:56 -0500 (EST) From: Sam Warren Subject: Miranda Sex Garden A while back, someone on this list was discussing "Gush Forth My Tears" by Miranda Sex Garden. Well, I remembered that someone here was quite enamored of this trio of women, but I don't remember who, and I don't remember what they said. I just picked up the album "Madra" today (on which is included "Gush Forth My Tears"). I am quite excited, and find it difficult to work without the benefit of hearing this disc. But since I have to wait until I get home, could the fan in question please respond to a couple of quick inquiries? 1) There are 23 songs on one disc. No timings are listed. Are these songs each 2:00 long or what? 2) There was an "extended mix" of "Gush Forth My Tears". Is it a dance song? 3) What kind of music would you say this is? If you have the time to help me with this, I'll be grateful. If not, I understand. I'll hear it for myself soon enough :-). * ---- Sam ---- * ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1993 16:41:39 CST From: Subject: You win some, you lose some WRT Vickie's brainteaser: My shot in the dark for the inspiration for "T&E" is _On Golden Pond_, from the standpoint of an old person reflecting on his soon-to-end life. "Closer" could have been inspired by any of a number of movies about women chafing at constrained relationships. _9 1/2 Weeks_ is not one of them, but it's the only title that comes to mind just now. Any of our Australian friends have a prediction on the election? NPR says it's a horse race. Off to take care of my virus. I've got a ticket Sunday for a recently unearthe d Gilbert and Sullivan opera, and hate to think I could be done out of the experience by microorganisms. Mitch ======================================================================== From: alan moorse Date: Fri, 12 Mar 93 20:32:13 -0500 Subject: 4 notes First, the AP wire idea someone (meth?) suggested is a good one, and I'll check our listing of reporters and bureaus to see if we have an entertainment reporter or editor. If we don';t, I'll just add the Albany bureau chief to the mailing list. Second, in our first few conversations, Kevin said we probably should leave Philadelphia alone, since it's already such a Happy place. Last night, he said we should go ahead. Meanwhile, of course, I told some poor PhilEcto- phile "Thanks, but no," and deleted their volunteer message. WHoever that was, please send again, and I'll count you in and apologize. Third, I ran an errand from work today for which I had to drive about 50 miles round-trip. I jumped in the car, snapped on the radio, and caught the last 30 seconds or so of Cohabitants. The next song was a selection by Sheila Chandra and either was named "Speaking in Tongues" or was from an album by that name. It was a wonderful piece of what I'd have to call percussion scat verse -- a percussion solo done with the voice. Just about the time I had it turned up to the limits of the car's speakers, Chandra was replaced by a rap song (Ouch!). The show had ended. New DJ, new genre! Fourth, an editorial in the local paper caught my eye. The writer was advocating legalization of the death penalty in New York state and was using a current case of depraved murder in his argument. He dismissed the usual argument that capital punishment deters people from commmitting crimes and said flat-out that capital punishment was IHO murder by the community. He argued that it's revenge, but that that's OK with him when someone does what the murderer and his accomplice did in this case. He said the case calls out for revenge, virtually demands it. In such a case, he said in closing, "execution isn't just revenge, it's justice." ...in your world alanm ======================================================================== From: alan moorse Date: Fri, 12 Mar 93 21:26:40 -0500 Subject: Ashokan Farewell There's a song by the above name, an instrumental that is really quite nice, especially when played on a dulcimer as I have heard it done several times lately. Last weekend, I heard a funny story about it and a great variation on it. The performer, Sue Carpenter, said that she'd seen a performer who prefaced the song with a story of its origins. According to the story, it was written in memory of one poor Private Ashokan, who went off to the Union army in the American Civil War and of course never returned. That's why, the performer reasoned, it was used in the public TV series on the Civil War -- a 100-year old song of fondness and sorrow. The problem, Sue then added, is that she witnessed the first-ever performance of that song just a few years ago at the closing of a folk music and dance festival in the town of Ashokan, New York, just west of Kingston. So in keeping with the tale of poor Private Ashokan, she then played a lovely, sad song called Dixie Goodbye, the tune of which would be familiar to most Americans. A little change of phrasing, and Dixie became w istfull song of mourning. "Things sure become historic quick these days" -- Sue C. alanm ======================================================================== Subject: Re: Ashokan Farewell Date: Fri, 12 Mar 93 23:09:32 -0500 From: jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu >So in keeping with the tale of poor Private Ashokan, she then played a lovely, >sad song called Dixie Goodbye, the tune of which would be familiar to most >Americans. A little change of phrasing, and Dixie became w istfull song of >mourning. Many thanks for the story--pretty cool. Any idea where one might find a recording of the song? (yeah, right, like I'm really going to go out and buy it, but *hey*, I want the opportunity to decide! ;-) In the book (and later the film) _The Prince of Tides_ (absolutely brilliant poetic prose; the plot has some minor flaws, but the sheer beauty of the language more than makes up for any shortcomings the book might have), the song "Dixie" is played so as to be a rather base commentary on the Southern Man (the sort made famous by Neil Young). It's incredible what arrangement, tempo, and *passion* can change in a basic melody. >"Things sure become historic quick these days" -- Sue C. And now we tie this back into Happy. A while ago, someone commented on the slightly more frequent usage of the word 'penchant' in Ecto, perhaps inspired by its use in "Closer." I'm sorry to say I can't remember how this was. At the time, my own take was that penchant has been a part of my working vocabulary for years and I wasn't starting to use it just because Happy was. But what about words that *Happy* is using a lot? The one that keeps springing to mind is the word "history" on _Equipoise_. It only shows up in "The Flight" and "Out Like a Lamb" but for some reason, it's probably the single word I identify most closely with the album. So much of the album is about history--a person's, a relationship's, a family's, a minority's, a world's--past and future. It's almost as much a theme to the album as that of equipoise itself. In her explanation of the title, Happy referred to the soul searching that led to her change of philosophy, the way she views people. I can't help but thinkg that it was this introspection that made the concept of a history stand out so much. Jeff ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 13 Mar 93 1:36:05 EST From: WretchAwry Subject: Re: Ashokan Farewell Jeffy writes: > In the book (and later the film) _The Prince of Tides_ (absolutely brilliant > poetic prose; the plot has some minor flaws, but the sheer beauty of the > language more than makes up for any shortcomings the book might have), > the song "Dixie" is played so as to be a rather base commentary on > the Southern Man (the sort made famous by Neil Young). It's incredible > what arrangement, tempo, and *passion* can change in a basic melody. I've only seen the movie (which I didn't much like, but saw it twice just because of Nick Nolte) but I do imagine that the book is *much* better. It's on my list. I know it was written by Pat Conroy, who wrote a book (and the screenplay for the movie) that I loved called _Conrak_. For years I've been meaning to delve deeper into his work and for some reason have just never gotten around to it. Do you (or anyone else) know what else he's written? > >"Things sure become historic quick these days" -- Sue C. > > And now we tie this back into Happy. > > A while ago, someone commented on the slightly more frequent usage of > the word 'penchant' in Ecto, perhaps inspired by its use in "Closer." > I'm sorry to say I can't remember how this was. At the time, my own > take was that penchant has been a part of my working vocabulary for years > and I wasn't starting to use it just because Happy was. :-) I remember one time while talking to Happy I used the phrase "oh pooh" a couple of times during the conversation and at one point Happy said "You know, that's what I like about you, you're a real person who actually uses words like pooh" and I said "are you kidding? I got that from you!" She said "oh no!" and I said "yeah, I *never* used that word until I heard I Am A Legend." I really think she was disappointed :-). > But what about words that *Happy* is using a lot? The one that keeps > springing to mind is the word "history" on _Equipoise_. It only shows up in > "The Flight" and "Out Like a Lamb" but for some reason, it's probably > the single word I identify most closely with the album. So much of the > album is about history--a person's, a relationship's, a family's, a > minority's, a world's--past and future. It's almost as much a theme to > the album as that of equipoise itself. In her explanation of the title, > Happy referred to the soul searching that led to her change of > philosophy, the way she views people. I can't help but thinkg that it was > this introspection that made the concept of a history stand out so much. Interesting...I'll have to think about this. This seems to be more true for Warpaint (and, of course, the 1st4) and when I think about Equipoise, it seems poised (couldn't resist) between the past and the future. I think it's very much a "transition" album. She's getting rid of the last of her personal demons, after laying them aside for Warpaint. Hmmm, an essay could be written on this. Not right now though. Does anyone else feel Equipoise as a transition album? In my own mind, it would be her 2nd major transition, because I feel Rearmament as one too. Hmmm, it just occured to me that she takes one step "forward" and one step "backward"....(not meaning "backward" in a negative sense, but as a tie to the past. I always consider I & II as a double album, so we have... I & II Rearmament Ecto Warpaint Equipoise Ok, that doesn't make sense...thinking...thinking... Not taking songs individually, but the albums as complete entities... I & II seem stark and simple. Emotions and feelings are raw and bare. Rearmament is lusher and the emotions and feelings are more complex. Ecto harkens back to I & II in its simplicity, but points the way to Warpaint. Warpaint is pretty much unlike any of the others, yet it's a natural progression. Equipoise seems to harken back to Rearmament, but I'm not quite sure why, except for its lushness. Each album is a progression, yet has important links to the albums that precede it. Thinking about I & II, they're so amazing to me because they're so original. These were her first songs, and they are so simple, yet complex in their own way, and...well...original. They don't sound like anyone else's songs. (Ok, I might get some disagreement, but I'm not talking about her voice, her Kateish voice, I'm just talking about the songs themselves.) Uh...I *know* I'm going to have to think about this some more. I thought my half-formed idea would suddenly clarify itself as I was writing, but it didn't happen. I do get the feeling that HRVII will be more a continuation of Warpaint than any of the others, but I have no idea what I mean by that. Does this line of thought make sense to anyone else but me? (Sure, we won't know a thing about HRVII for at least a couple of yearsthank goodness the woman is prolific, I know I won't have to wait 4-5 years between albums to see where she's headed!) Now why did I say that she set aside her demons on Warpaint? ....click...click...click...(brain backfiring)...VWOOM!.... oh yeah, because of the song "Warpaint" which seemed to indicate that she was done with them...at peace with the past...and I thought she was, until EQP came out. Brain fragments, in public too....pooh! :-) Vickie ................................... : In sorrowful memory of Dr. Gunn : :.................................: ======================================================================== From: rhogan@chaph.usc.edu (Ron Hogan) Subject: finally in the know Date: Fri, 12 Mar 93 22:52:15 PST Back around the time that we were discussing "Land of the Glass Pinecones," I asked Michael if he could send me a copy of the Human Sexual Response album that it was on. He asked if there was anything else I might be interested in hearing. Since I had been on the group for several months, without yet having heard a Happy Rhodes song, I figured it was time I finally got into Happy. So I asked if he could send a side of her songs. Then Meredith posted the news of the (un)official Happy Sampler. Well, since my reference to Happy when I wrote to Michael was only a casual aside, I wrote to Meredith and asked if I could get a copy of the sampler. This, in exchange for a Jonathan Richman/Van Morrison sampler tape, was easily arranged. And then Michael wrote to let me know he was sending a Happy sampler, as well. Egads! Well, all the tapes have come (and I hope, have arrived in WA and CT, as well!). Happy Rhodes is...incredible! I'm amazed. I first got into singers doing multitracking of their voice when I heard David Bowie, on "Space Oddity" and much of the _Aladdin Sane_ and _Pin-Ups_ albums. Then, as a sophomore in college, I discovered what Gene Pitney had been able to do in the early 60s. Of course, by that time I had heard Kate Bush, too, an experience that had forever changed my life. Listening to Happy Rhodes has been a similar experience. As for the extra sampler, I'm giving it to a friend of mine when I go to visit her in Austin, TX next weekend for SXSW (anyone else going?) So another music fan can join the Happy fold. Wow. That's all I can say still. Wow. Ron ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 13 Mar 93 3:46:37 EST From: WretchAwry Subject: Re: finally in the know Ron tells us: > anything else I might be interested in hearing. Since I had been > on the group for several months, without yet having heard a Happy > Rhodes song, I figured it was time I finally got into Happy. So > I asked if he could send a side of her songs. I keep telling people that there are Ectophiles who have never heard Happy's music, that there are other reasons to join (and stay) but no one ever believes me. Thanks for backing me up Ron! Of course, I always hope that eventually curiousity will prompt a listen (it's my nature, what can I say..:-)) so... > Wow. > That's all I can say still. > Wow. YAY! That's so nice to hear! Ron, what were the songs you heard that prompted this reaction? Ron, when you're at South By Southwest, keep an eye out for Big Hat. They're listed for 2 dates, but one is tentative. 3-17 Independent Showcase Steamboats (tentative) (512) 478-2913 3-18 Official Showcase Emo's (512) 477-EMOS (this date is with Glass Eye, The Drovers & The Dashboard Savior. I know nothing about the plastic jesus folks, but I think Glass Eye might be in a good phase, but don't quote me, and I *KNOW* that you absolutely, positively should not miss The Drovers.) Congratulations! Vickie ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 13 Mar 93 6:40:24 EST From: WretchAwry Subject: Re: Stuff [tm] Doug writes: > Re: Save Our Souls: > > I don't completely disagree with Steve F's, Quenby, and Angelos' disagree- > ments, as I sort of indicated in the bracketed section of that paragraph. > I've listened to the song or read the lyrics about ten times now, and I've > seen my side eight of those times and their side twice. I still find the > former more convincing. Just a gut feeling. However, even if I accepted that > Happy is being ironic here, I still think she stretched her facts and > metaphors past the breaking point. She tried to juggle too many balls at once > and fumbled all of them, in my opinion. Even beyond these points, I _still_ > find "Save Our Souls" irritating in other ways. Sorry, folks, there's no > chance of redeeming this song in my eyes. Well, I will admit that I do like > its music. Truce? :) Uh, no. Basically what you're saying here is that you totally reject Happy's true meaning 8 times out of 10. I would accept that if the song were ambiguous, but a) It's not. The lyrics are perfectly clear. I "got it" the very first time I read the lyrics. This was before I talked to Happy about it. I'm baffled that you would see it differently. Still, I could accept this if it weren't for the fact that... b) Happy *verified* the point of view that SteveF, Quenby, Angelos and I heard. I told you that, yet you still say "I still find the former more convincing" and "Just a gut feeling" which tells me that either you don't believe Happy or you don't believe me. I don't get it, do you think that either of us would *lie* about this? Why would we? This is the absolute strangest thing I've run across since I've been a Happy fan. It's not a matter of interpreting the song in your own way, of course you can do that to your heart's content. But what you're doing, what's making me so amazed and disappointed, is you're interpreting the song your way, then you're *condemning* Happy for her "philosophy" which you don't agree with, but that is *not* Happy's philosophy, but one that you're projecting onto her. Then, when you're corrected, you continue to insist that (8 times out of 10 anyway) you're *still* right, in essence calling Happy and myself liars. Correct me if this is wrong. It's how I read your paragraph. Then you say "Even if I accepted that Happy is being ironic..." **huh?** Doug, you have to accept it because it's the *truth*! You don't have to *like* it, you don't have to like her metaphors or her "facts" (what are you talking about there anyway?) and you can dislike the song, and find it as irritating as hell and I have *no* problem at all with that. No way am I going to flame you or anyone else for not likeing a song, or specific things about any song. What I will not stand for is your complete (well, 8 times out of 10) rejection of what Happy and I say wrt her point of view. It wouldn't even matter so much except that you're misinterpreting what Happy *believes*! *You* said: > I thoroughly disagree with her philosophy from one end of the song > to the other ... The basic theme is Happy's singing for the aliens > to rescue earth ... However, I completely reject this throwing up > one's hands, throwing in the towel in disgust at the world's troubles. > ...if you wait for extraterrestrials to solve the world's problems, > nothin's gonna happen. Problems are only solved by our rolling up our > own sleeves, and getting our hands dirty. ...and the really absurd part is that Happy believes the same thing you do, absolutely, 100%, and I told you that, yet you reject it (8 times out of 10) and think that Happy wants the aliens to save us all so we don't have to do any hard work. You've been a Happy fan for a long time, and you've had all the albums for a long time, and you've been on Ecto since the beginning (or close to it anyway) and you should know that Happy loves using irony. This song is *full* of it, and even if YHO is that it bombed this time, at least believe me when I say that she *is* being ironic. I knew it, I asked her, she confirmed it, I passed the confirmation along. That has to be good enough for you because if it isn't, then you'll just continue to believe that one of us is lying about it. You can't possibly think that, can you? What's the deal? I just want to stress again, especially for newer Ectophiles who might not know me, that I have *no* problem with your not liking SOS for whatever reason. I *do* have a problem with your continuing to think that Happy believes one thing when in fact she believes the opposite. Lordy! I'm leaving in about 15 minutes to go do abortion clinic defense and this will be a tense one. I'm sure tense as I write this. Doug, you're very important to me, I care about you a lot, and the last thing I want to do is get on your shit list. However, my psyche is at an up point right now, and I'm assuming that I am also very important to you, that you care about me a lot, and that the last thing you want to do is get on my shit list. If I can (and I do) peacefully accept the fact that you don't like SOS, will you peacefully accept the fact that your original, basic interpretation of Happy's point ot view is wrong? If the answer is yes, then we can have a truce. If it's no, then I have no idea what more I can say to convince you and I guess it will be one of those things that we'll frown at each other about, warily, every now and then. *sigh* *HUG* no matter what. Vickie ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 13 Mar 93 18:13:25 +0100 From: yngveh@stud.cs.uit.no (Yngve Hauge) Subject: albums bought...money-spending :) I went to the local music-shop yesterday to look for Jane Siberry and K.D Lang records. They didn't have any by Jane Siberry but some by KDL. Only _Ingenie_ of the one you recommended so I listen to it shortly then I bought it (and nearly one by Katy Moffat too). I looked around a little to see if I found something else interesting and found Judie Tzuke's _Wonderland_, Joni Mitchell's _Blue_ and two old Genesis (_Trespass_ and _Selling England By The Pound_) which I bought too. Can't afford such a money-spending but who cares? :) Music means so much to me and I don't drink any alcohole so money others are using buying that stuff I use to buy CDs. I love K.D. Lang's voice. One of the reasons why I bought it. Listened too little to Judie Tzuke yet to say something concrete. I've wanted to buy something by Joni Mitchell for a long time but never come that far. Regards, -- *** Yngve Hauge ******* And the summer became the fall ****** ** University of Tromsoe ** I was not ready for the winter ** * yngveh@stud.cs.uit.no ** It makes no difference at all **** *********************** 'Cause I wear boots all summer long * ======================================================================== Subject: Today's your birthday friend.... From: klaus@inphobos.w.open.de (Cosmic Vagabond) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 93 08:34:39 GMT i*i*i*i*i*i *************** ***HAPPY******* ********BIRTHDAY*** ******************* ***** kIrI Hargie ***** *********************** -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- kIrI Hargie Fri March 13 1970 Pisces Alan Sodoma Thu March 18 1965 LuckyLurker Barry Wong Thu March 19 1970 Merlin Graham Dombkins Fri March 19 1965 Pisces Geoff Carre Sat March 20 1954 Pisces Bob Brown Thu March 22 1951 Ham John Baker Tue March 24 1964 Berkeley Valerie Nozick Thu March 25 1971 Aries Marc Power Sun March 30 1958 The Project Warpaint Mon April 1 1991 Brilliant! Klaus Kluge Sun April 10 1960 Unicorn Steve VanDevender Sun April 10 1966 Racer Art Liestman Fri April 10 1953 Repeat Stephen Golden Sat April 10 1971 Jokey -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- _____ Klaus Kluge * klaus@inphobos.w.open.de * I'll be here, I'll be (in) Ecto! ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 13 Mar 93 20:50:52 +0100 From: yngveh@stud.cs.uit.no (Yngve Hauge) Subject: Happy birthday The title says it all but again HAPPY BIRTHDAY KIRI!!!!!!! -- *** Yngve Hauge ******* And the summer became the fall ****** ** University of Tromsoe ** I was not ready for the winter ** * yngveh@stud.cs.uit.no ** It makes no difference at all **** *********************** 'Cause I wear boots all summer long * ======================================================================== The ecto archives are on hardees.rutgers.edu in ~ftp/pub/hr. There is an INDEX file explaining what is where. Feel free to send me things you'd like to have added. -- jessica (jessica@ns1.rutgers.edu)