Errors-To: owner-ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Reply-To: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Sender: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu From: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu To: owner-ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Bcc: ecto-digest@ns1.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto #1158 ecto, Number 1158 Tuesday, 28 June 1994 Today's Topics: *-----------------* Boston CD shopping AXcess Re: Laurie's alter voice RE: Music/BEAUTY Re: AXcess Re: Sarah and Milla In Boston Gentle suggestion Re: Gentle suggestion Re: Gentle suggestion Re: #ecto (It had to happen sometime) VA DJ playing Happy, WXPN show meeting Re: #ecto (It had to happen sometime) Everyone should be aware... ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 27 Jun 94 21:45:46 PDT From: kyrlidis@templeton.cchem.berkeley.edu (Angelos Kyrlidis) Subject: Boston CD shopping Hi, Well, mjm's and meth's requests made me sum up my 6 years of CD shopping experience in Cambridge, and create the unofficial guide for ectophiles and others. Here it is, and fellow current and ex- Bostonians feel free to add on to it (compiling this has made me homesick for Cambridge, which is really weird, because I think I like Cambridge more than Athens, but I won't admit it to myself :-)). Angelos' guide to CD shopping in Cambridge. ------------------------------------------ New CDs -=-=-=-= Newbury Comics - Cambridge - Harvard Sq. In the Garage mall at the corner of JFK St and Mt. Auburn, second floor. My absolute favourite CD store for new stuff. Look for the 'Square Deal' which has $2 or $3 off coupons for non-sale items. Routinely has $6.99 new CD sales and in May had a great cut-out sale. Tower Records - Cambridge - Harvard Sq. On Mt. Auburn next to Crimson Travel, which is across the street from the Garage. Pretty good selection, also has coupons in the square deal. Harvard Coop - Cambridge. Harvard Sq. Hard to miss. Good classical, folk and world selection. Slightly pricier. Used Cds -=-=-=-= Second Coming - Cambridge. On Mass Av. under Dolphin Seafood (which is a great place for lunch if you like seafood) between Central and Harvard (closer to Harvard). Large selection of used CDs, and also bootlegs. Lots of vinyl too, and also rare videos etc. Cheap-o records - Cambridge - Central Sq. go to the basement for a large selection of used CDs at moderate prices. Looney tunes - Cambridge. On Mass Av. across the street from barsamians and the 1010 Mass. Av. building. so-so selection and so-so prices on used stuff. Look in their clearance bins, which occasionally have great things for even greater prices. Mystery Train - Cambridge - harvard Sq. On your way to Harvard from Second Coming across the street from the Harvard Inn Hotel. I have been there once only, and don't know much about it. But others think highly of it. In your ear - Cambridge. On Mt. Auburn St. Turn left after Mystery Train and keep walking till you hit Mout Auburn, then walk towards JFK. Easy to miss, but has good selection, and lots of $3 CDs. I once found an Equipoise there, so it's Happy friendly. Check it out. Suggested Route -=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Start at Central Sq. and walk along Mass Av. towards Harvard so that you can check out all the used places on your way, and then go to the new cd stores and finish off your quest. This will take you to Cheap-o, Looney tunes, Second Coming, Mystery Train, In your ear for used stuff, and then to newbury comics, Tower, HMV and the Coop for new stuff. Enjoy. --------- Angelos (who just bought the Linda Brady CD and enjoys it immensely so far) ======================================================================== From: snpf@lucid.com (Sarah Noelle Pratt Ferguson) Subject: AXcess Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 21:46:38 -0700 (PDT) So, I bought the latest aXcess. There is an interview with Tori and one with Trent-the-nine-inch (as tori puts it). They were both good. Also, in Mondo 2000, besides Jane Siberry interview (the interviewer had his own ideas about what they were going to talk about), there is an interview with the Dream King author, Neil Gaiman! And he wrote the comic for Alice Cooper's new cd! (Well, *I* think it's cool!) End Rave. -seanympf Haze Theatre is awesome. Has anyone else on this list heard of Crash Worship? ======================================================================== From: Aaron Hawkins Subject: Re: Laurie's alter voice Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 00:29:07 -0500 (CDT) Sarah inscribed: > I really like it. It doesn't bother me at all. She said that > when she was in Brasil, some people were asking why she uses > it. The reason was a power thing...people unconsciously (or not) > tend to listen to deeper voices. Laurie said, "You guess why." > Sorry, I don't remember exactly what she said. But you get the > idea. Like you mentioned, people are supposed to pay more attention to deeper voices, which is where the gag about "broadcast quality voices" comes from. Think back on every movie preview you've ever seen. Most of them probably had narrators. Now, how many had *women* narrators? Job discrimination suit waiting to happen, that is. Aaron ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 22:46:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Lee West Subject: RE: Music/BEAUTY Hullo to all Ectophiles! First things first, I would like to clarify that tho the acct. & mail is under the name Eric...my name is Onica, I am not Eric, and I am the Ectophile. Am using Erics account, for now. I am the one who sent the Anais Nin Quote. Well...that said!... Well so far in my travels on line I have encountered much interest in: Tori (!!!),Happy (here, only), Sarah, Milla, Kate (tho not much AT ALL:(), Liz, Laurie, Also tidbits of other artists, but... Anyone else out there adore Danielle Dax??? Heard of Amy Denio?!? Love P.J. Harvey??! ALSO: Anyone on ECTO from Pdx.,Or. who makes music? I'm looking.... Hugs -n- Kisses! -Onica OOps!! Sorry 'bout the glitches above! % > CALnijoh@teleport.COM Public Access U ser --- Not affiliated with TECHbooks Public Access UNIX and Internet at (503) 220-1016 (2400-14400, N81) ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 23:01:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Lee West Subject: Re: AXcess On Mon, 27 Jun 1994, Sarah Noelle Pratt Ferguson wrote: > So, I bought the latest aXcess. There is an interview with Tori > and one with Trent-the-nine-inch (as tori puts it). > They were both good. > Also, in Mondo 2000, besides Jane Siberry interview (the interviewer > had his own ideas about what they were going to talk about), there > is an interview with the Dream King author, Neil Gaiman! And he > wrote the comic for Alice Cooper's new cd! > > (Well, *I* think it's cool!) > > End Rave. > -seanympf > > Haze Theatre is awesome. Has anyone else on this list heard of > Crash Worship? > Yes- Crash worship very odd band from San Diego. Once gave me & a friend their backstage passes so we could get into a show.Not theirs, unfortunetaly. I haven't seen them live, but I've friends who love it. Naked dancing, weird substances...not for the easily disturbed. I've listened to their CD's and found them good only for a night of laughing gas. Hope to see them live someday...I'll try anything twice (*wink wink*nudge nudge*) -Onica nijoh@teleport.COM Public Access User --- Not affiliated with TECHbooks Public Access UNIX and Internet at (503) 220-1016 (2400-14400, N81) ======================================================================== Subject: Re: Sarah and Milla In Boston Date: Mon, 27 Jun 94 23:09:45 PDT From: Eli Brandt > From: Suspended In Duct Tape > She was backed by a keyboardist/mandolinist/backing vocalist, a guy playing > bass, a guy playing guitar, and a guy playing some zither-lap harp-like > instrument that I'm sure is named in the liner notes for the album, but I'm > too lazy to go and look. :) A kantele, maybe... I wonder what region she's from. It probably wasn't one (there are a lot of zitherish instruments!), but anyway, this reminded me of something vaguely ectopical: while in what was Russia at the time, I saw a performance by a Karelian folk group. The instrumentation was sparse, one or two kanteles (it's a Finnish==Karelian instrument), which were totally drowned out by the vocals once they got going. The vocalists were half a dozen women who were... quite intense in their singing. Almost shouting, with some dissonant harmonies. I was overwhelmed at the time, but now I wish I had a recording of it. Eli ebrandt@hmc.edu ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 28 Jun 94 3:29:07 EDT From: WretchAwry Subject: Gentle suggestion Hello! We're all here for Happy in some way or another, right? Well, I know there are those who haven't yet heard Happy's music (and know that you're *very* welcome to be here!) but the majority of us are. We have to hope and pray (to whatever diety) that _Building The Colossus_ is Happy's breakthrough album, but we also have to remember that we thought that _Warpaint_ and _Equipoise_ would be the breakthrough albums too. It didn't happen :-( We have to support Happy however and whenever we can, and we, more than anyone, know how important the net has been to Happy's career so far. How many albums have been bought in stores by people who heard about her via the net? I would say quite a few more than have sold directly via AG. It's ironic, in a way. Back when mail-order was the only way to get Happy's music (with rare exceptions such as a few Albany and Kansas City stores) H&K *knew* exactly who was buying the music and how many were being sold. Now that distribution is much better, they don't get very many orders anymore and have no idea exactly how many are selling to individuals and who is buying. But, as Mitch would say, that's neither here nor there. :-) My point is that anything we can do to get individuals to buy the albums in stores should be explored. If BTC *doesn't* get attention, H&K still need to sell enough to pay off the bills from it and start making the next one. My very gentle suggestion is to keep an eye out for threads on relevant newsgroups and jump in if one of Happy's songs seems to fit the thread. I know that people have done this, and I appreciate it, but getting name recognition in preperation of the album release is even more important now. Keep it up :) Obvously, we don't want a disaster like there was with the recent ToriWars in rec.music.misc and alt.music.alternative. (For those who don't know, someone in the Tori mailing list, rdt, offered Tori goodies in exchange for letters to Tori. Fans were to write a letter directly to Tori, post in r.m.m and a.m.a, then mail it along with the headers proving that it had been posted to this person. Naturally, when "Dear Tori" letters began flooding these groups, there was a massive flame war. Ugh. People got sick of seeing her name. I have no idea, btw, who was responsible for the original suggestion in rdt, but I'm sure he's been crisped). It's a fine line to walk, you know. Marcel (hi Marcel!) is a good example of someone who said that he was getting sick of seeing Happy's name in gaffa and rdt, but ended up liking Happy once he heard her. The same thing happened back when the Happy War in gaffa was going on. I've heard from more than one person who refused to try Happy simply because of the flame wars back then. (Of course, Ecto itself was born from that flame war and it hit the ground running, so quite a few people didn't care about the flame war and tried and liked Happy anyway) (Another aside: does anyone, to this day, know if Jenn Turney has ever heard a note of Happy's music?) It's also a fine line for me to be suggesting to Ectophiles to post about Happy. I don't want this to ever seem like a manipulation from the list, though it would seem to be, just by me talking about it. All I'm suggesting is for people to keep Happy in mind when you see a post that could benefit from a valid addition :). In rec.music.misc, there's always threads about cover songs, and Happy has provided us with "Ashes To Ashes." In alt.music.alternative there are threads that have to do with "depressing" music. There are others and fans will know them when they see them. My advice would be to check to see if someone else has posted about Happy in the thread. If not, go for it :). If so, a couple of subtle "me toos" are fine (though it helps if you add a tidbit or two of info but don't post a lot of info unless someone specifically asks for it) and just keep in mind that name recog- nition is the most important thing at this point. I can't tell you how thrilled I was when someone (not a Happy fan) posted info about BTC in rdt. Which btw, he got from the new-releases list, so thanks to whoever (it wasn't me) sent the info to that list. To think that a non-Happy fan would even think that Tori fans would be interested in that info, was pretty cool to me. It means that the name was familiar *enough*. I took the opportunity to post a couple of informational paragraphs about the upcoming Woodstock shows and her paying for albums herself. Thanks also to those who have posted info in such places as alt.music. alternative.female, alt.music.enya, alt.music.progressive (hi Bob!) and elsewhere. I know it's happening, so I don't mean to sound as if I don't think it is. If anyone has any other suggestions, feel free to post. Other direct action (such as calling radio stations to request Happy) can't be done until the album is released, promos are distributed and we have specific information about song titles and singles. I love every bit of Happyvangelizing that's been done so far, and I know that Happy appreciates it too. No one should feel pressured into doing anything (which I've been guilty of in the past) and if a Happy fan does it "only" by sharing the music with friends (Hi Marcel & Marion!) that's wonderful too. Everything helps, and in the end, the point is to get the word and the music out to those who will appreciate it :). Vickie "There's a breath of hope for everyone to share, There's a growing force of people who care" She Who ps, a reminder...when anyone sees a Happy post *even if it's your own* *PLEASE* e-mail it to me. I archive every Happy/Ecto mention I see, and there's no way I can see everything. Please keep me (and posterity) in mind. I include my .sig because it pertains to Ectophiles as much as anyone else. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Vickie Mapes "Fight for your right "My ears are lucky to hear vickie@pilot.njin.net to have a monster" TA these glorious songs" HR _________ "Imagination sets in, then |_ _ | _ The Happy Rhodes mailing list all the voices begin" KB |__|_ ||_| ecto-request@ns1.rutgers.edu -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Searching for Happy Rhodes reviews, articles, interviews, mentions -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 04:13:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Jessica Skolnik Subject: Re: Gentle suggestion Speaking of HappyVangelizing... i made a convert of sorts! A friend of mine who i know likes ecto-type music and i were hanging out a little while ago...i had happened to bring my copies of RhodeSongs and Equipoise to her house. I basically mentioned how neat Happy was, and put on RhodeSongs...before i knew it she had "If So" on repeat and had taped the album from me. "This is really good!" she said. :) We went to a seminar the next morning and ended up discussing Happy for a while during it, too, even if the conversation was only between us. :) Sneaky us. In any case... (oh, i feel very random tonight. :) ) Just thought you all would like to know. --Jess. :) ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 28 Jun 94 4:42:01 EDT From: WretchAwry Subject: Re: Gentle suggestion Hi Jessica! > Speaking of HappyVangelizing... > i made a convert of sorts! A friend of mine who i know likes ecto-type > music and i were hanging out a little while ago...i had happened to bring > my copies of RhodeSongs and Equipoise to her house. I basically mentioned > how neat Happy was, and put on RhodeSongs...before i knew it she had "If > So" on repeat and had taped the album from me. "This is really good!" she > said. :) We went to a seminar the next morning and ended up discussing > Happy for a while during it, too, even if the conversation was only > between us. :) Sneaky us. > In any case... > (oh, i feel very random tonight. :) ) > Just thought you all would like to know. > > --Jess. :) Yay! I love stories like that, thanks for passing it along! (another very gentle reminder though...suggest that she buy the CDs? :)) Happy herself knows how many fans have come from "sampler" tapes and doesn't mind those at all. Whole albums though...well, it's a bit discouraged, for obvous reasons :). Vickie ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 28 Jun 94 6:40:23 EDT From: WretchAwry Subject: Re: #ecto (It had to happen sometime) This started out as a letter to NewBob, which I never got around to finishing as soon as I should have. I've decided to post it too (I hope you're not too mad at me Bob) because there might be others who are perplexed at this #ecto/Sens/Rava business. > Vickie, > > Being new the the list and not even a novice yet with the internet, could you > help me out by explaining that last message? Hi Bob! First, welcome to Ecto! Second, sorry I'm so awful about answering e-mail right away. It's not you...I'm the world's worst correspondant to *everybody* so it's nothing personal. If you haven't given up on me and asked someone else by now, I'll answer your question. IRC is Internet Relay Chat, and is a world-wide way of talking to one or many people in real time. Once you enter IRC, you can look at, look for and create your own "channel" and set a topic. As (or if) other people enter your channel, you type something and they see it as soon as you hit return. You see what they've written as soon as they hit return, so it is real time with just a slight delay. As many people can be on the channel as is possible. 2, 10, 50...it doesn't matter. There can also be as many channels as there are people to create them. At any one time there can be hundreds of different channels. (There's such a thing called the "Undernet" which has less channels, but #ecto is not on the Undernet) I have no idea if you, on AOL, can access IRC. You'd have to ask someone at AOL. If you have no local server, but if you do have access to "telnet" (again, I don't know if you do) then you can telnet to sites that allow access. Unless you have access to IRC or telnet, there's no point in me telling you more specific details about IRC itself. If you find you can get access, I'll be glad to give you more pointers and tips to using it. I will tell you some things, that will help you understand my message. All channel names start with #, so #ecto is "our" channel. It doesn't exist if no one is on the channel. I mean, once you enter IRC, you're not automatically in a channel. If you just want to look at what channels are active, you type /list or /names to show the active channels. If no one is on #ecto, you won't see it, because it doesn't exist until someone creates it. To create it, you (or anyone) types /join #ecto and whala! it is now active and you're the only person there. You see, anyone (friend or foe) can make #ecto active. If someone has already created #ecto, then you'll automatically join them when you type /join #ecto (or "#Ecto, since irc isn't case sensitive). The first person on a channel is automatically awarded "ops" which means channel operator. Once the first person is op'ed, no one else entering the channel is automatically given ops. The original op has to manually give newcomers ops, which is done with a simple command. *But*, the op doesn't *have* to give anyone else ops. If the creator of #ecto is one of "us" then we'll give ops to people we know who enter the channel after us. If the creator of #ecto is a foe, then they can keep ops all to themselves and there's nothing we can do about it. So what's important about having ops? An op can set the Topic If I'm an op in #ecto, I set the topic to this: "Happy Rhodes, Kate Bush, Tori Amos, Jane Siberry, Sarah McLachlan +more" and other Ecto people will usually set the topic similarly. Since #ecto is a spin-off of Ecto, it's an unwritten "rule" (unenforcible) that Happy's name come first. When anyone else in IRC types /list, a list of all active irc channels *along with their topic* scrolls on their screen. Many Kate, Tori, Jane and Sarah fans have come to #ecto after seeing the Topic, and have gone on to discover Happy's music, and the music of others in the topic that they didn't know about. The Topic is (to me) *very* important. If a foe has ops and no one else does, they can set the topic to anything they want. A Topic such as "FUCK YOU. WE HATE YOU ALL" is entirely possible, and obviously, undesired, *especially* on #ecto, since it's a friendly channel. An op can kick someone off the channel, and ban them There are commands for getting rid of people (/kick) and for preventing someone from coming on to the channel in the first place (/ban) and only an op can do that. If the wrong person has ops, they can get rid of anyone and keep regular people off #ecto (or any channel). There are other things ops can do, but these are the 2 things that are most worrisome about this Sens guy. He had a fight with a regular named Rava, and is taking it out on the whole channel. He programs things called "bots" which take over the channel, won't give anyone else ops, and bans Rava. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ One interesting thing about #ecto is that it has taken on a life of its own. I know that many people have joined the mailing list Ecto because of #ecto, but at the same time, many people have become #ecto regulars without joining Ecto. Rava isn't on Ecto anymore...he couldn't handle the mail load (understandable) but he is a long-time #ecto regular. Sens, this person we've been raving about, had an annoying habit of sending a message to the entire channel that consisted of this: Sens says "hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm" which in itself isn't a problem, but he did it all the time, and it got to be somewhat annoying. He seemed to do it for no reason at all, just because he was bored. Sens had been around a few days, and I'd learned to ignore him hmmmmms, but they were still annoying. Now, if someone comes into #ecto and is highly obnoxious, sending nasty notes, or being vulgar, it's an easy decision to /kick and /ban that person. Something like this though, was different. It didn't cause a *problem* but tended to grate on people's nerves. Still, no one felt it was worth /kick'ing him for. Perhaps I should have asked him privately why he sent those messages and asked politely to stop. I didn't, so I take some of the blame for the resulting problems. Rava did what none of us had the nerve to do. Rava is a very direct, no-nonsense person and he came right out and told Sens to stop that. He didn't call Sens any names and he wasn't obnoxious to Sens. He just asked him to quit. Sens didn't take it very well, and seemed to think that Rava had insulted him by telling him to quit. I was there, and Sens immediately began harrassing Rava for an apology. I tried to mediate but Sens would have none of it. He wanted an apology or nothing. Rava didn't think he had anything to apologise for, and I agree with him. Perhaps he could have been more diplomatic (then, if I'd gotten up the nerve, I would have sprinkled my requests with "please" and "sorry, but" and basically groveled a bit, not wanting Sens to be upset with me) but Rava is just very direct, not like me at all. Anyway, Sens threatened Rava with "you don't want to mess with me" and Rava finally had his fill of Sens, and banned and kicked him from the channel. That was, I thought, the end of it. Obvously not, not with all this bot business. Sens's bots took control of #ecto (more than once) and caused problems. NeIl, I very much appreciate your posts about this, and I thank you for trying to reason with Sens. As you say, nothing less than an apology from Rava sooth this guy. But then, who is to say he won't still hold a grudge. Well, it doesn't matter because Rava won't apologise. Rava made a simple request and Sens was the one who became aggressive and obnoxious, so I'm on Rava's side here. Maybe we've seen the last of Sens, since he hasn't popped up for a couple of days. We'll see. Non-irc people should know that irc isn't completely filled with people who like to confront and people who like to cause trouble. You'll find unpleasant people everywhere, so it's not an "irc thing" and in spite of these problems, many, many very good people hang out in #ecto. A very nice group of people wouldn't have subscribed to Ecto if not for #ecto. It's a wonderful thing and I personally am very protective of #ecto, just as I am of Ecto. If anyone has access to irc and has never visited, do a /join #ecto some time and see if anyone's there. If I'm there, I'm usually known as "Equipoise" (and sometimes "Ode") and my e-mail address will be visible if you type /who #ecto. Say hi! If anyone wants more in-depth info in irc commands or anything, just e-mail me. This post was written in bits and pieces over a period of quite a few days, so if I've missed something really important, #ectophiles can feel free to call it to my attention :) Vickie/Equipoise/Ode ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 04:20:04 -0700 From: "Alex Gibbs" Subject: VA DJ playing Happy, WXPN show meeting I wrote on May 31, talking to myself again: > I wrote [on May 26]: > > Happy Rhodes' "Feed The Fire" to be played by Damien on > > Sunday, May 29, between 9 and 11 pm (his shift is 9pm-2am) on > > 99.3 FM / 540 AM, WMWC from Mary Washington College. > > Well my friend did play it and asked people to call in with comments > (see below). Later on he replayed a snipet of it twice to refresh > people's memories. He called me a while after playing it and I gave > him the the Woodstock show dates and mentioned _Building the > Colossus_, which he then announced. We then talked off and on for ... > Next week he will be playing another Happy song from _Warpaint_, > probably "Terra Incognita". I wish he could play "The Wretches Gone He played "Lay Me Down" AND "Terra Incognita" that Sunday (June 5). :) It was a two-for weekend and he only has the tape. Unlike the prior Sunday, he wasn't really soliciting opinions but did get two female callers with positive comments. :) Later that week the station logged at least two requests for Happy, but since the tape is one I gave to him they didn't have it there to play. Since then he has played at least one Happy Rhodes song every Sunday and told me he's going to continue starting his show with "Feed the Fire", which he started doing June 26. 8-) He has also played "To Live in Your World" and maybe "Words Weren't Made for Cowards". He has given out info about ordering/finding her CDs to some people. I really need to get the station info to Bob Lovejoy and hope Happy & co will send a CD or two! Plus there is some more Happy related stuff I have yet to write about WRT Ingrid Karklins and Tucson. > BTW, I met him on the net and mentioned ecto to him but he lost > access not long after. If he hadn't he'd be on ecto I'm sure. Due to his circumstances he asked me to get more info about the WXPN concert. I told him who would be there. He isn't sure if he will go to both days but if he does he was interested in whether an ecto hostel might be open to him as well. I think he might like to meet up with people at least. I've never met him RL but have talked with him endlessly on the phone and on the net prior to his netloss. So please write me if you know where he can call for more show info, about meeting up, or even about a place he might be able to stay the night. Thanks from Damien! /-\ |_ |= >< (Alex R. Gibbs) arg@kilimanjaro.opt-sci.arizona.edu "I don't think anyone really matures. I think adults are just children who owe money." -- from the movie _Peter's Friends_ "Yes it's the best in reality programming... actual reality." -- Frasier ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 04:47:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Steve Lamb Subject: Re: #ecto (It had to happen sometime) On Tue, 28 Jun 1994, WretchAwry wrote: > An op can set the Topic Anyone can set the topic unless an op has set the channel +t which means only ops can change the topic. > will usually set the topic similarly. Since #ecto is a spin-off of Ecto, > it's an unwritten "rule" (unenforcible) that Happy's name come first. Heh, I remember that one time I put Tori first. :) > "bots" which take over the channel, won't give anyone else ops, and bans > Rava. Not that I've noticed. > Rava isn't on Ecto anymore...he couldn't handle the mail load > (understandable) but he is a long-time #ecto regular. I lurk and mostly delete. Happen to see this and read it. First post I've read on Ecto in months. Surprise! :) > Sens, this person we've been raving about, had an annoying habit of > sending a message to the entire channel that consisted of this: > > Sens says "hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm" For those unfamiliar with this the command is: /msg #ecto hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Usually I've no problems with this... > which in itself isn't a problem, but he did it all the time, and it got > to be somewhat annoying. He seemed to do it for no reason at all, just However, why it is annying is because /msging to a channel is normally for when you aren't on the channel but want to make a comment. Or, in cases of invite only channels (+i) to ask to be invited. This is so you don't need to know who is on the channel to reach them with /msg. If they are set to invisible or the channel set to secret (+s) or private (+p) you cannot see who is on the channel. In this case, Sens was on the channel and also /msg'ing the channel. Very disctracting since it causes a different message format to pop up. For those who disregard some messages by the first few characters (like me) I always get drawn to those because I'm looking for those especially since people use that to get help. > being vulgar, it's an easy decision to /kick and /ban that person. /ban and /kick. Easier that way. :) > Rava did what none of us had the nerve to do. Rava is a very > direct, no-nonsense person and he came right out and told Sens to > stop that. Ammendment, I asked for ops to set the channel +n which stops /msg's to the channel... except for those originating in the channel. I then asked him to stop, while I still had ops. For those that know me, I don't like having ops all the time and only ask for it when I need it. So what Sens saw was me get ops, me set the channel +n, me asking him to stop. I think his next thought was the stop was a threat before a /kick. However, after asking him, I DeOpped myself. It takes a LOT to get me to kick someone, as you will see. > be upset with me) but Rava is just very direct, not like me at all. Hard to explain. I feel that I've caused a problem on #ecto by some of my odd views on society. Urk. > Anyway, Sens threatened Rava with "you don't want to mess with me" > and Rava finally had his fill of Sens, and banned and kicked him > from the channel. Ammendment #2. Alana warned me, via /msg, that Sens was a hacker and I should be careful. He public said that I shouldn't mess with him. As Vickie has said, I'm a direct person. I know what someone can and cannot do. In /msg I told him, in almost these words, he cannot do anything to me. When he threatened I did ask, I dared him to carry out those threats, knowing them false. The exact threat was, "I can end your IRC life as you know it." He's not an IRC op (we do have a regular #echophile who is an IRC op, btw. HEHE) and I knew no matter what he threatened he couldn't do anything to *ME*. During this he was off of Ecto. He came back and started to /msg me a series of escape codes which I think were a vain attempt to get my server to drop me. I asked for ops again, banned him and kicked him. I don't much like getting 1024 character long strings with about 200 beeps in them fed off a macro once a second. An annoyance to me, until I take care of it, nothing more. After I banned him & kicked him he stopped and told me not to mess with him, again. My response, "Go to bed, child." Just before I /forgot him he said that i was banned from IRC for a month and sent a bot msg. I thought nothing of it. > not with all this bot business. Sens's bots took control of #ecto > (more than once) and caused problems. This is where I made a mistake. When I get into little spats like this I focus on the person. I tend to forget that others are not as kind and will also focus on others. His interpetation of banning me from IRC was from #ecto. Mine was, literally, from all of IRC. The latter he cannot do. The former, through bots, he can, sort of. I'm not on #ecto enough for him to warrent all the trouble. I rarely visit anymore due to other reasons. However, if I had the desire to login to Ecto and he decided to ban me the best he can I can always get back on and be chatting in 5 minutes, right under his nose. It pays to have many friends with their own internet addresses. I seriously doubt that he could ban everyone at 2 commercial internet carriers, five colleges and dozens of telnet IRC sites w/o bringing the wrath of those sysadmins on his sysadmins head and down to his. Of course, since he is attending the school (presumabably) that he is calling from that would mean severe problems for his academic career. In a nutshell, the more he tries to hurt me, the greater the danger he runs of hurting himself 100 times worse. The problem is, #ecto is caught in the middle, that is something I do not want. > apology from Rava sooth this guy. But then, who is to say he won't > still hold a grudge. Well, it doesn't matter because Rava won't > apologise. Rava made a simple request and Sens was the one who became > aggressive and obnoxious, so I'm on Rava's side here. Oh, I might've at one point. I think I am reasonable for the most part. I mean, if he agreed to stop and politely pointed out that I was coming off as rude, fine, I'd've apologized. But I generally respond in the same vein that the person gives me. > Maybe we've seen the last of Sens, since he hasn't popped up for a > couple of days. We'll see. He'll tire of me and maybe every once and a while pester me personally or, once and a LONG while, hit me through #ecto. Nothing short of a full-time bot on a stable site in the states will keep him out of #ecto's hair for a few months. But, like I said, because of how infrequently I join #ecto and stay for any length of time he will bore very quickly with trying to get to me. Just like I assumed incorrectly that he meant all of IRC he is incorrectly assumeing that all of IRC (or my internet access, really) focuses on #ecto. > Non-irc people should know that irc isn't completely filled with > people who like to confront and people who like to cause trouble. Yes, Sens and I are definately the exceptions to the rule. However, when we are on opposite sides of the fence it is often the innocent channel that suffers. For non-IRCers... There are prolly more bots and attendees of the sex channels than people like us. :) > days, so if I've missed something really important, #ectophiles can I hope this helps you understand why Sens is acting like he is. 90% of it IS what happened between him and I publicly. 5% is my confronting him in /msg and the last 5% of it is the 5% that got it all started. Me getting ops, trying to stop the /msg to the channel and then asking him to stop with ops. He percieved a threat that wasn't there and ignored the fact I deopped myself. Heck, I brought it to his attention in there at least twice. If anyone was going to kick, it wouldn't be me. Steve "Rava" Lamb - SysOp, Abcb Cafe| My thoughts, my actions are my own. BBS: (916) 363-1424 2400-v32bis 14.4K| I need not worry if others do not PGP CRC: 384/6CFEE3 | like them. For they are me, there "I feed the fire" -- Happy Rhodes | is no changing that. ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 28 Jun 94 8:05:06 EDT From: WretchAwry Subject: Everyone should be aware... There's no way to get this message out to everyone except by sending it to the list. Digest readers will be the last to know. Now that the subscribe/unsubscribe is handled automatically by Majordomo (rather than by hand via Jessica Dembski), it's possible for *anyone* to easily get a list of the subscribers by e-mailing majordomo. Until now, lurker status has been a given, and many people have come, checked things out, then left without ever posting or being known. Also, there are *many* long-time subscribers who have never posted, and kept their anon status intact. I think it's only fair to tell everyone that you can be "seen" now, and lurkers are not anon anymore. Just to clarify, lurkers are *very* welcome on Ecto! You need never post to this group to be an "Ectophile" and feel welcomed. We encourage you to post, but no one has any problem if you decide not to. What with the spamming and harrassment problems the net is starting to experience (and it will get worse!) it's important to know what can be done. There's absolutely nothing stopping anyone from subscribing to Ecto, getting the list of subscribers from majordomo, and unsubscribing. The list (containing everyone's e-mail addresses) could be used for anything from sending junk e-mail to outright harrassment. If anyone should experience such problems, and you suspect that the majordomo list is the most probable way that someone obtained your address, please come forward and tell us. Don't suffer in silence! I'm not a sysadmin, and I'm not quite sure what can be done, but we should know about it. I'm not saying this to freak anyone out or drive people off the list. I just think that this new development should be general knowledge among all current and future subscribers. Other than that interesting tidbit, majordomo works *great*!! You get an answer and info page within seconds, and can find more info from there. Nothing against a wonderful, but busy, Jessica, but there won't be any more waits to subscribe and unsubscribe from the list. The ecto-request@ns1.rutgers.edu address is still in effect. If you send anything to that address, you'll immediately get back the majordomo info sheet which will tell you how to sub/unsubscribe. Hurray for Jessica for getting it going! Vickie ======================================================================== The ecto archives are on hardees.rutgers.edu in ~ftp/pub/hr. There is an INDEX file explaining what is where. Feel free to send me things you'd like to have added. -- jessica (jessica@ns1.rutgers.edu)