Errors-To: owner-ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Reply-To: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Sender: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu From: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu To: owner-ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Bcc: ecto-digest@ns1.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto #1140 ecto, Number 1140 Thursday, 23 June 1994 Today's Topics: *-----------------* Re: Ack! Even Victoria Gets the Blues MONDO 2000 Job Hunting We still need your clothes, your boots, and your motorcycle MONDO 2000 all kinds of things . . . seattle band Sarah M. at ShopRite News for Balt/Wash ectophiles Weather, Magazines, & loud concertgoers... Mondo Canucks Get The Blues Happy and more Intro and comments Today's your birthday friend... Landslide ======================================================================== From: kmorrey@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Kathleen Morrey) Subject: Re: Ack! Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 11:15:37 -0500 (CDT) > > Oh, bill the cat, be with me today.... > > Today's company meeting is "Layoffs: Do you stay or go?" > > *Sigh* > > keep the spirits up! (gulp) > -seanympf > *HUGS* to you, and all our Happy Thoughts and wishes are with you! -Kath ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 15 Jun 94 10:12:14 PDT From: hanson@ast.saic.com (Jeffrey Hanson) Subject: Even Victoria Gets the Blues Well, I finally saw Even Cowgirls Get the Blues last night. Not one I would heartily recommend. Fairly disappointing, but since I'd heard that it wasn't that great, I really wasn't expecting that much. However, we did get to see Victoria Williams act (kind of), and sing Happy Trails. The biggest disappointment was Rain Phoenix--the girl has no charisma. Had I never read a Tom Robbins novel, I don't think this film would make me want to. But as usually is the case, I think the books are better. The movie just failed to capture the humor and liveliness of Tom Robbin's style--and it wasn't helped by Robbin's own voice-overs. So, though I wouldn't recommend it, it was kind of fun to watch just to pick out the many cameos. John Hurt was amazing, I can't believe it was even him. Jeff ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 15 Jun 94 13:43:39 PDT From: Neal Copperman Subject: MONDO 2000 I have to disagree with Neil on the MONDO vs. Wired issue. I would take MONDO any day (or any issue, I guess). I am surprised Wired has had the time to go monthly, they are so busy patting themselves on the back about what an important magazine they are. Anyway, MONDO covers a wide range of stuff, from technology to philosophy to music and art. It's very glossy and full of wild pictures and frequently indecipherable articles. An early review claimed it was read-proof, and the next issue proudly touted that over the title - Guaranteed read-proof. Both mags tend to have a lot of personalities in them, but check out the latest MONDO. Jane Siberry on the cover (bumping the promised Kate interview, I think). There are lots of incredible Jane pictures, and an interesting, though hard to follow article. Followed directly by an interview with Neil Gaiman, and then a conversation with all three COcteau Twins (which is excellent). Also in the issue is T. Corragheson Boyle, Orbital & Caberet Voltaire, synasthesia (which actually ties in with the Jane article), nano-cyborgs, and a bunch of net stuff. Meanwhile, Wired, being a serious magazine covering serious fair, is more liable to have some profiles on Silicon Valley executives, something on the future of the phone company, and other far less interesting (IMO) topics. If you've never read MONDO, it can be hard to read though. My ex found it completely impenetrable. I've read almost all of them and I still don't always know what they are talking about. Perhaps it's there tendancy to make up words if necessary, or to just babble on about topics so far out in left field only the people in the room know what is going on. I was going to quote some clever article titles and some confusing passages, but Jeff Hanson managed to sneakily borrow my issue last night. Look for it in the stores, and at least read the first few paragraphs of the Cocteau Twins interview. It's hilarious. Neal ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 15 Jun 94 13:55:02 PDT From: snpf@lucid.com (Sarah Noelle Pratt Ferguson) Subject: Job Hunting Ok, so the ax fell and some of us are bleeding less than others. However. If you know of a job for bright young person, doing tech support or testing (or some such), please let me know. Today sucks. But, thank you all for the hugs. -seanympf ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 16:19:17 CDT From: Subject: We still need your clothes, your boots, and your motorcycle As of today (6/15), there is exactly one month left until the final, ironclad deadline for contributions to the 1994 Happy Birthday Project. For the benefit of anyone new to the list, this is the latest in a semiannual series of compil- ation tapes we put together to send to Happy, and make available to the entire ecto community, on the occasions of her birthday, and the holiday season. Ectophiles contribute musical selections to appear on the tapes. As Doug stated in his earlier posts on this subject, we are going to adhere rigorously to the 10-minute limit on the total length of contributions (musical material plus introductory verbal remarks). Within this restriction, however, you are free to submit either recorded selections or original performances. If you don't have the necessary hardware to record your introduction, you can email a prepared text to me at U15289@uicvm.uic.edu and I will record it for inclusion on the final tape, prefacing the musical interlude that you snailmail to Doug. Don't snailmail, or even email, such scripts to hem, because that will only delay them. By the same token, don't send any tapes to me, for the exact same reason. The final product will ultimately be available through Doug's dubbing project, but you can hear the fruits of your labor (and that of the rest of the contrib- utors) sooner by sending Doug tapes on which to record your copy. We suggest sending two c-100 cassettes, one of which should have your contribution recor- ded on it. These should be snailmailed, together with appropriate SASE's, to Doug's new abode: Doug Burks 906 W. 75th St. Seattle, WA 98117 Happily, some of you have already decided what you'll contribute. We look forward to actually getting them, as well as the ones from everybody else, no more than 30 days hence. Mitch ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 15 Jun 94 14:49:17 PDT From: stevev@greylady.uoregon.edu (Steve VanDevender) Subject: MONDO 2000 My opinion of Mondo 2000 is summed up by the quip "useless factoids for clueless technophiles." My experience with Mondo 2000 is that it is indeed not serious -- it is full of writers spooging about technophilia, but has little useful content. Perhaps it's just because I'm a technical kind of guy, but I prefer Wired's serious approach, because it tells me things I would really want to know or use, rather than trying to tell me how neat cyberspace and designer drugs will be instead of what electronic communication is like now. ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 16:20:50 -0600 (MDT) From: schlepping away to paradise Subject: all kinds of things . . . First of all . . . if anyone has tour dates for WOMAD or Tori that occur in Utah or Colorado, I'd love to know about it . . . also, I just picked up my copy of Rolling Stone (#685), and not only does it have a great picture of Counting Crows on the cover, there's an article and larger-than-life photo of Tori. (yay!) I think it's the first copy I've read with any kind of motivation in a long time *grin*. Also, I recently picked up a copy of the October Project album. Wow! _Well_ worth my $16. I only wish I'd bought it sooner. peace, love, and cornflake girls, Janet ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 17:44:02 -0500 (CDT) From: Cheri Villines Subject: seattle band What can anyone here tell me about a Seattle group called Worm? A friend of a friend is in the the group and I am trying to gauge public opinion, if any. I haven't yet listened to the two tapes I was loaned, so I have no opinion yet. :) I think, though, that they wrote a song, or maybe are performing a song, for an upcoming gay march on Washington? My info is pretty garbled, since I am getting all this second-hand, sorry. Anyway, thanks. :) cheri ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 19:14:15 -0400 (EDT) From: WAYNEPALMER@delphi.com Subject: Sarah M. at ShopRite I heard Sarah McLachlin being played in a really surprising place today. I was coming home from work tonight and stopped in at the local ShopRite in Bordentown NJ. As I was checking out what do I hear on their Muzak but "Possession". The woman behind me in line commented how cool it was to hear it(I was wearing my Solace t-shirt at the time). I told her about Sarah being at Penns Landing on July 16th and how it was free. She seemed really excited about the info. Well, don't know about the weather in the rest of the country, but am really getting tired of this 100 degree heatwave this week!! *=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=* | Wayne A. Palmer *Ye Olde Florence Train Station* waynepalmer.delphi.com | |-------------------------------------------------------------------------| | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WXPN-Music That Needs to be Heard <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< | *=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=* ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 20:58:24 -0400 (EDT) From: S Trowbridge Subject: News for Balt/Wash ectophiles Tickets for Tori Amos' July 25 concert at the Meyerhoff in Baltimore go on sale Friday at 11 a.m., through Ticketmaster and at the Meyerhoff box office. Also, WHFS' Modern Rock Morning Show tomorrow will feature, as its special guest, Milla. --Sue Trowbridge //////////////////////////trow@access.digex.net\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ Alas for those who do not sing but die with all their music in them. --Oliver Wendell Holmes ////////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 22:03:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Lovejoy Subject: Weather, Magazines, & loud concertgoers... Hi folx! Firstly, *HUGS* to seanymph, sorry to hear that. And they say the economy is improving... As Wayne mentioned, we Midlle-Antlanteans (?) are sweltering in a hazyhot&humid mass o' synthetic "air". I (heart) air conditioning. To pick up his thread, our local Pathmark has played many great songs and performers, including Sarah, kd, Tori, and others. Unfortunately, their great music is often interrupted with news of a spill in aisle 12 or exhortations to purchase mass quantities! Yes, there are some cewl magazines about. Mondo 2k is everything people here have said. Wired is a little self important but the issue I read had some interesting stuff. BTW, you can read Wired online with AOL. Unfortunately, AOL lacks those nifty progressive grafix. I also got ahold of a magazine named bOING bOING that takes itself less seriously than the others mentioned whilst covering similar topics. Finally, Meth's comment on the people who shout and talk through concerts sure rang a few bells with me! Back at Happy's performance at the Mann, there was this - well, drunken lady behind us who didn't seem to care that people had paid money to come and listen to the artists. She talked incessantly; we finally moved to another part of the theatre. The seats weren't as good, but the audio was better! I guess a lot of people feel that a concert is just a big party for them. C'est la vie. See y'all down the wire... Bob the old coot ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 22:23:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Suspended In Duct Tape Subject: Mondo Canucks Get The Blues Hi! Yep, it's hot. Tonight's weather forecast for the next week looked disconcert- ingly like the forecast for the next week in Florida. And up here, we don't have central air conditioning. :P At least I won't mind long hours at work. But we had cooler things on our minds last night, yes we did. Y'know, I'm not *that* much into hockey, and I'd never watched a Rangers game before the Stanley Cup finals, but living in the tri-state metro area, you just couldn't escape Rangers fever. I would've much preferred it had the Boston Bruins been battling the Canucks, but hey, we can't have everything. :) Last night even I had three consecutive coronaries during the final two minutes of the game -- it was unbearable. The best part about the game, though, was after it was over: the Canucks were right up there hugging the Rangers, slapping them on the back and congratulating them. People may diss hockey for its violence, but I daresay the NHL has more sportsmanship in its facemask than the rest of professional sports put together. Or Vancouver. I was stunned to hear that the riot police were out last night not in New York, as had been anticipated, but in Vancouver, where it seemed the fans were celebrating having lost more than the New Yorkers were having finally broken the 54-year curse. Neil, you were right - humans in groups *are* scary animals. Geez. On to other topics ... Thanks, Marion, for the "Landslide" info! My friend will be gratified to know he was right. Glad to hear the Scottish ecto-gathering was a success. And that Ilka's CD-shopping was, too! Jeff Hanson reported: >Well, I finally saw Even Cowgirls Get the Blues last night. I'm sorry. >However, we did get to see Victoria Williams act (kind of), and sing >Happy Trails. Yeah, that part was neat. I wish they hadn't cut the part of Debbie to nothing for the movie -- Victoria was perfect for the part, and I think she could have done a lot with it, if given the chance. >The biggest disappointment was Rain Phoenix--the girl has no charisma. The reviewer from the New Yorker mentioned that at the screening at which he saw the film, there were chants of "Rain, Rain, go away" every time she came on screen. :) >Had I never read a Tom Robbins novel, I don't think this film would make >me want to. But as usually is the case, I think the books are better. Well, I had never read a Tom Robbins novel, but after seeing the movie I wanted to read _Even Cowgirls Get The Blues_ just to see what all the buzz was about. Only then did I realize just how bad the film is. Gawd. Neal described: >Anyway, MONDO covers a wide range of stuff, from technology to >philosophy to music and art. It's very glossy and full of wild >pictures and frequently indecipherable articles. An early review >claimed it was read-proof, and the next issue proudly touted that >over the title - Guaranteed read-proof. That's what pisses me off about mags like MONDO 2000 and RAY GUN. I mean, if you're going to put a magazine together that's utterly impossible to read, then what the hell is the point??? People say, "Oh, it's an art form," to which I say, "No, it's a waste of time." I like to read my magazines, thank you, not keep them on my coffee table looking oh-so-trendy while I'm wondering if they would be interesting if I could only figure out what's inside. Speaking of magazines, I picked up the B-side containing the little interview with Sarah inside. No revelations to be found, but there is one nice picture (and one not-so-nice picture), and it was a positive, "Yay we're so psyched she's finally going places" article. Check it out if you can. I heard that tickets for travel packages to Woodstock '94 went on sale today. Not counting transportation, tickets for the weekend are $135. As much as I love Happy, there's an almost-guarantee she'd be the only artist I'd be interested in seeing at the festival, and I just don't have that kind of money. (I'm assuming the Other Festival will be a similar price.) Sigh. Kicking myself for not hanging around the Palace the other night because I just heard people who did so got to spend some quality time with Tori, I remain, Meredith meth@delphi.com ======================================================================== From: Cloudbust@aol.com Date: Wed, 15 Jun 94 23:00:00 EDT Subject: Happy and more Greetings all! I encountered Happy's music by accident/providence when my roommates purchased a copy of "Equipoise". I must say I was THRILLED with it. I purchased a copy of it for myself (I have made this duplication style purchase only one other time, for Vangelis' "Direct" [HIGHLY recommended]) and suspect that I am personally testing the validity of the "xlasts forever" CD claims. I am constantly enthralled with her inventive use of harmonies and unorthodox melodies. I know little of the mechanics or tech- niques of music or composition, but I do know when I like a particular musical work and this is a severe understatement when applied to her music! Since my first exposure to "Equipoise", and within a time frame of about 3 weeks, I have purchased "Rhodes II", "Rearmament", "Ecto", "Warpaint", "Rhodes I" and "RhodeSongs". I especially enjoy the unusual vocal/instrumental tapestries she weaves in songs like "Perfect Irony", "If So", "Because I Learn", "The Wretches Gone Awry", "Phobos", "Wrong Century" (ABSOLUTELY WONDERFUL) and "Cohabitants" (WOW). I zealously await the arrival of the new CD. I have what some consider a bizarre range of musical tastes including such acts/artists as Kate Bush, Kim Wilde (those two, mentioned in the same sentence to the "snooty" music types usually garner me an interesting look), Concrete Blonde, Yanni (MASTERFUL keyboardist), Carpenters, Ace of Base, ABBA (yes, I gladly admit that I like them), Bela Fleck, Wishbone Ash, Clannad, Enya, Deanta, Sarah Brightman, Jean Luc Ponty, Madonna, etc. I would also like to strongly recommend that everyone try to listen to Sarah Brightman's "Dive" CD. Well, that is all for right now. Bob Dreano. (No neat trailer yet) ======================================================================== From: Cloudbust@aol.com Date: Wed, 15 Jun 94 22:59:44 EDT Subject: Intro and comments Greetings and salutations all, This is my first attempt to post a message here, and I beg your indulgence and perhaps your pardon if you notice any syntactical errors herein. I do not have direct access to the Internet, and am only able to access it via America Online. I have tried to learn some of the protocols and structures involved, but suspect I will need to delve into printed documentation (UGH!). Let me preface the rest of this post with a (hopefully) brief introduction of myself. I am a 36 year old single male. I graduated high school, attended a state university for one year (mostly to escape home and acquaintances, so that venture was doomed to defeat) and community college for general knowledge enhancement off and on for about 5 years. I believe that govern- ment should stay out of the private lives of individuals (until said individual (s) harm or impede the well-being of others). Period. As such, and to contrast my views in the rest of this post, my view concerning abortion is that whether it is wrong or right is not for the government to decide. If the potential mother's background and upbringing are such that she opts for abortion, so be it. Further, and in a GENERAL view, no male has a right to decide the issue for any female. I will change my view on that part when men can bear children, and can, therefore, make a qualified judgement. Concerning the issue of gun control, I am a strong believer that the population of the United States of America should be able to avail themselves of the rights detailed under the second amendment to the constitution. It strikes me as peculiar to see first amendment proponents attacking second amendment proponents. At the very least, does anyone not realize that the ONLY guarantee of freedom is potential force combined with the willingness and ability to use such force? Granted, all things would be much better if such measures were not needed. But if we as a society forfeit our second amendment rights, then the government WILL disarm the populace. At that point, the GOVERNMENT will dictate all other rights including freedom of speech, expression, assembly, religion, etc. Now, I know that some readers are visuallizing me as a paranoid anarchist. Not even close. Still, I do not want the government, ANY government interfering with my life. If you are one of those who think "that can't happen HERE", then you need to take a closer look at what is going on around you. Don't base your decisions on any ONE source of information, not even mine. Don't base your decisions on the "bandwagons" that seem to dominate our information channels. Don't base your decisions on the "party- line" of ANY political or lobbying group. I ask, no I URGE, that you step out of the social structure and try to objectively examine this and any issue. Here are some observations of mine. Again, DO NOT use these alone to form, change or justify your decision. 1- This country was formed with a basis in individual freedom. 2- This country was formed through armed rebellion against a government which, in the opinion of the rebels, had become oppressive, unreasonable and unresponsive to the needs of its subjects. 3- The freedoms/rights in the bill of rights are a direct result of the rebels' experience with said government and are a well thought out attempt to correct the perceived problems of that government AND prevent the succeeding government from becoming tyrannical, oppressive and unresponsive as well. 4- The basic tenets of the bill of rights are laudable and should be upheld. 5- Freedoms/rights only exist when they can be defended. 6- Nothing can be defended completely without potential use of some kind of force. 6- Defending force is only effective if it is, at very least, equal to that of the aggressing force. This does not mean that the general public should have bazookas. The sheer number of armed citizens is a great equalizer. In short, if you want the freedoms of speech, religion, expression assembly, redress of grievances, etc., then you must be willing to acknowledge that such freedoms are secured by force and sacri- fice. Some would argue that the armed forces are responsible for this, and while I agree that the primary function of the armed forces is to insure domestic security, I also realize that armed forces can be corrupted (look at many third world nations, look at Haiti). In direct response to some earlier posts: On June 8, John wrote: >Which reminds me of my fun gun experience: my then-SO and I were at >her house. She is a well-trained prone and squat target shooter, and >knows about guns. She had her pistol, definitely unloaded, and just >for the grins, decided to point it at me. I nearly had a breakdown. >It made me cry and it still scares me to think about it. I really do >not like guns at all. (And the NRA can stuff their statistics.) John, First of all, she was obviously not very well trained. The FIRST thing I was ever taught was "Always treat the weapon as if it is LOADED". Further, "NEVER aim a weapon at anyone you do not intend to shoot". If this is indicative of her behavior, DUMP HER NOW! She is a tragedy waiting to happen. Still, I view your parenthetical phrase as a borderline flame and would ask that you view the issue objectively. Yes, the NRA floods any- one in earshot with statistics. So does HCI. So does the AMA. So does Congress. So does every news entity in the country. In short, I almost completely ignore statistics. They can be made to say whatever you want them to. It is certainly your right to dislike guns. I do not want you or any- one here to think I am trying to sway your viewpoint as regards yourself. I do take offense at people trying to dictate MY choice in the matter, however. On June 9, Revvie wrote: >Guns make me cry too. And seeing one scares the bejeezus out of me. > let alone having one pointed at me. And I would never by my child a toy >gun. And I think ecto can handle a topic like this wihtout getting ugly. >(I just shivered....thinking about Tori's "Me and a Gun"..... Revvie, What particular aspect of guns makes you cry? Why does just the sight of a gun "scare the bejeezus" out of you? I have surmised that the members of ecto are of above average intelligence, willing to examine issues in order to rationally determine their views concerning such, and above all, willing and able to at least examine different viewpoints some- what objectively. Therefore, I would ask that you be specific and rational when making such a statement. Otherwise, emotion will tend to color any statements and, as is evident in the mass media coverage of this and many other issues, reality and fact are ignored. Also please consider that, in order to "...change the circumstances of the world" it is prerequisite that you be present in it. To that end, it may be necessary to remove that option for someone that attacks you. On June 9, Mike wrote: >My take on it it's in an imperfect solution to an imperfect world. While it >may deter someone at first from attacking you, it could also make them pull >out *their* gun in response, and I doubt they'd give a second thought to >pulling the trigger if they thought you were going to. No evidence to back >this claim, just a gut feeling. Mike, Yes, it is imperfect. However, regarding your comment about the attacker responding with *their* gun in response, I doubt that there are many out there that would attempt such an obviously suicidal action while looking down the barrel of a weapon. If so, SHOOT! On June 9, vickie wrote: >I've had 2 close encounters with guns. The first was when I was a kid >and I found my dad's handgun. He used to go hunting and had lots of >shotguns, but they were all locked away and I don't remember ever >holding one of them. Finding the handgun was fascinating though. I >remember holding it to my head and going "pow!" and then holding the gun >out straight and pulling the trigger. It *fired*!! It fired and shot >a hole in the refrigerator. I got into a lot of trouble, but the gun >disappeared and I never saw it again. Never looked for it, either. > >The other time was being pistol-whipped and robbed. I've posted about >that before. A friend and I were robbed just as we got into my car. >Guys came up on each side and both used guns to hit us on the head >while reaching in to find and take our purses. It was winter and I >had my coat hood on, so I just got some bumps, but my friend had to >have stiches. We were pretty lucky, but it was scary for a couple >minutes there, not knowing if one or both of them would shoot. Vickie, Regarding your first encounter, had your father trained you in any way in the handling of handguns? Was the handgun LOCKED UP? Regarding your second encounter, I cannot say with any certainty whether your having a gun would have alleviated the situation and I am sorry about what happened to you. Still, I wonder if such an attack, unchallenged, may have some psychological impact, perhaps the feelings of helplessness contribute to the depression spells? On June 9, Dennis wrote: >Even for men, self defense is important. The reason there are so many >victims in the world is that there are so many people ill-prepared to >defend themselves (and this is not just from physical attack). This >becomes a self-propitiating series, since the offenders are shown they >can get away with it. And if they can get away with it against men, >"weaker" women are merely even easier targets (c.f. car salesmen). > >The only answer is from any possible direction, make attacks of any >sort unprofitable in the long run. Individual events can be stopped >completely, but they can be curbed to a great extent. Dennis, Thank you. On June 10, Chris wrote: >Licensing requirements similar to, but more strict than, those >required to get a driving license seems like a good *start*. >Frequent, mandatory, aptitude testing in lieu of confiscation, >even. Again, only a start, not at all a solution. Chris, While I used to agree with the idea of registering weapons, and with the idea of mandatory testing of ability, I have since revised my opinion because of the constant intrusions I see the government inflicting on the populace. It would very likely go something like this: 1- Institute a "voluntary" gun registration. 2- Upgrade it to a mandatory registration. 3- Then add strict licensing, even revoking permission to purchase a gun. 4- Outlaw guns altogether, but include a "grandfather" clause 5- Use the license records to locate and confiscate the guns. 6- You are now HOME FREE. Issue any totalitarian edicts you wish because NO ONE can do anything about it! Along the way, be sure to bombard the public with statistics that blame guns (not criminals or an ineffective or corrupt justice system) for the tragic violence in their midst. You can count on the mass media to help. 7- Nationalize the mass media. Create an "Official" news agency. (Remember TASS?) Meredith, I am very sad about your brother. My father died by a handgun. I am STILL not in favor of banning them. I would much rather ban criminals. Still, I concede your privilege to refuse yourself ownership of firearms. I just ask that you consider my right to own them if I wish (as long as I do not use them in a criminal fashion). On June 10, Michael wrote: >Guns are not for everybody. I am for reasonable gun control. Letting >no one but cops and government officials own guns is _not_ reasonable. >Melt their guns too, or melt nobody's. Michael, Thank you. On June 11, Bob wrote: > I choose not to have a gun. I choose not to be a part of it. One >can hope to avoid the violence, but I won't buy a ticket to that lottery. >I'd fear for my family if we had a gun here, what if the kids got hold >of it? What if my wife got depressed one night and...? These things >can happen to anyone, regardless of precautions. >I want to live this life nonviolently. Should violence touch me, >I will have to accept my fate. This is a difficult planet, and if it >wasn't for the wonderful parts - nature, music, art, love - it would be >unbearable. Bob, Thank you for not being ravenously anti-gun. It is refreshing to see that someone who does not wish to own a gun also does not have zealous anti-gun rhetoric to try to force feed everyone. I, too, wish to live my life nonviolently. Thus far I have succeeded. On the other hand, I must admit to a potentially selfish ideology. That is, I will certainly value my life and that of those close to me over that of anyone who threatens such. In such circumstances, and as a LAST resort, I would, grudgingly, recruit any method available to defend myself. If an adversary MUST die, so be it. In my view, such people are knowingly threatening me and should be prepared for the consequences of such actions. Some would define this as "sinking to their level" and that may be true. The difference is that I can return to a civilized "level" while criminals remain in their "level" and repeatedly subject other to it. Regarding the question of children and guns, I believe that parents MUST properly train children in the handling and use of firearms if they are in the house. I also believe that anyone with children in the house, whether their own or visitors, should LOCK UP their firearms. This sounds like common sense, but I am stunned at the number of incidents where children "find" firearms in the house resulting in tragedy. To all, I want to re-emphasize that I am not trying to force my opinions upon anyone. I am open to polite, intelligent, rational discourse. I just hope that everyone can view the entire picture without the usual bias evident in the media, then make their own choice. I thank you for your time and apologize for the voluminous post. I appreciate having somewhere to state my opinions without having to worry about the usual irrational flaming associated with this topic. Thank you for your patience. I was going to post some ectonic items here, but I decided to make them separate since there are probably not many of you left reading to this point. Bob Dreano. (No neat trailer yet) ======================================================================== From: klaus@inphobos.wupper.de Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 07:03:18 CET-1 Subject: Today's your birthday friend... i*i*i*i*i*i *************** ***HAPPY******* ********BIRTHDAY*** ******************* *** Mark R.Susskind *** *********************** -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Mark R. Susskind Wed June 15 1966 Gemini Ronald Hogan Tue June 16 1970 Bloomsday Mike Matthews Mon June 16 1969 SAFH Albert Philipsen Mon June 17 1968 Gemini Neal R. Copperman Thu June 17 1965 Gemini Ecto-The Mailing ListTue June 18 1991 Fuzzy blue Tracy Barber Mon June 18 1956 Gemini David Lubkin Fri June 20 1958 OurLady Marisa Wood Fri June 20 1969 Gemini Cheri Villines Sun June 20 1965 Gemini-Pisces Teresa VanDyne Thu June 23 1960 Cancer Dave Torok Mon June 24 1968 Cancer Ethan Straffin Thu June 24 1971 Cancer Anders Hallberg Tue July 3 1962 Cancer Kevin Harkins Thu July 5 1973 Cancer Laurel Krahn Mon July 5 1971 Cancer Jim Gurley Mon July 6 1959 Cancer Courtney Dallas Fri July 9 1971 Cat Michael Peskura Sat July 9 1949 HallOfFamer Finney T. Tsai Sat July 9 1966 Cancer Marion Kippers Tue July 13 1965 Kreeft Mitch Pravatiner Mon July 14 1952 Cancer -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- _____ Klaus Kluge * klaus@inphobos.wupper.de * I'll be here, I'll be (in) Ecto! ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 10:05:05 +0200 From: Marion Kippers Subject: Landslide >Hi! > >[...] >On to other topics ... > >Thanks, Marion, for the "Landslide" info! My friend will be gratified to >know he was right. >[...] > >Meredith Oh dear, things are getting confused I'm afraid... :) The Buckingham/Nicks album is not the same as the Fleetwood Mac album on which Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham first joined the band; the Fleetwood Mac album (1975) is the one that includes "Landslide". Sorry if I didn't make that clear... Best wishes, Marion (still receiving loose mail... :( ) _________________________________________________________________ Marion Kippers Wolters Kluwer Academic Publishers Automation Department Dordrecht, The Netherlands Marion.Kippers@wkap.nl "Pity our emptiness..." (HR) _________________________________________________________________ ======================================================================== The ecto archives are on hardees.rutgers.edu in ~ftp/pub/hr. There is an INDEX file explaining what is where. Feel free to send me things you'd like to have added. -- jessica (jessica@ns1.rutgers.edu)