Errors-To: owner-ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Reply-To: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Sender: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu From: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu To: ecto-request@ns1.rutgers.edu Bcc: ecto-digest-outbound@ns1.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto #264 ecto, Number 264 Wednesday, 17 June 1992 Today's Topics: *-----------------* Re: NOT MY SCENE, FOLKS... Bonus Tracks on 1st4, misc. National Public Rhodio? icb Another subliminal link between ecto and the real world :-) A happy compendium of thoughts ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 17 Jun 92 13:26:41 -0400 From: gb10@gte.com (Gregory Bossert) Subject: Re: NOT MY SCENE, FOLKS... Jody says: >I am for free speech but want no part of a forum that would crucify >one person for her opinions, yet allow someone else to say something >just as nasty because it is politically correct to throw stones at >that particular person. Give me a good flame war any day over any >such covert backbiting. Neither are good, but one is more honest than >the other. >[...] >I know dissenting opinions about Happy are not welcome here and I can >hear the cries of "BLASPHEMY!" even as I type. That is why I would >like to unsubscribe at this time. It's just not my scene, folks. >Enjoy. i am sorry, but this all seems *ludicrous* to me -- the "forum" doesn't allow or disallow anything -- this is an open and 'psuedo-moderated' mailing list, and jessica has worked hard to ensure that everyone is welcome to express their opinions... there is no "covert" backbiting, no conspiracy, no "political correctness" standards -- it's a bunch of people, some friends, some complete strangers, who freely post about alternative music... this is not the first time someone has expressed the opinion that ecto is somehow a cliche of Happy worshippers who snub the unbelievers -- well, that is *nonsense* -- i challenge *anyone* to actually point to an example of more than one ectophile conspiring to exclude or insult someone else... i am saddened that Jody feels it necessary to quit before hearing reactions to her post -- i suspect she would have gotten some interesting replies to her comments about Happy's music -- for one thing, *i* am sick to death of Happy or *anyone* being compared to Kate Bush (and you know, just because Happy or Tori or whoever is mentioned in gaffa does NOT mean she is being compared to Kate -- many people seem confused on that point)... personally, i don't participate in news groups/mailing lists in order to agree with people on safe issues -- i have got better things to do and better ways to support my ego. *i* am on Ecto to *learn* new things and read *different* opinions on alternative music in general, as well as work to help Happy's career (and even there, i act not out of slavish devotion to Happy but out of respect and excitement over the independent music process) i apologize if i have reacted strongly to this, but i feel that the quality of discussion on Ecto is lessened whenever someone with a dissenting opinion leaves instead of participating, and i very much hope that anyone else who feels 'outside' of Ecto realize that, well, evryone on Ecto is 'outside', and every opinion is valid and welcome... speak up! debate Happy's talents, disagree on people's ideas, suggest startling things, cause a ruckus... if Ecto's "warm fuzzy blue" feeling can't survive a real discussion, it's a lie, but you know what? *i* think it will :) sincerely, -greg -- gb10@gte.com -- "words weren't made for cowards" -- HR ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 17 Jun 92 13:36:24 EDT From: dtorok@nynexst.com Subject: Bonus Tracks on 1st4, misc. Well, I'm enthralled by the 1st 4 as much as can be! I was just wondering, though, if the bonus tracks were composed around the same time as the albums they appear on? As an example, "Look for the Child" sounds like it could have been recorded around Warpaint-time rather than Ecto-time, judging from the sound of the production. On another note, I'm sort of bummed: Happy signed my Ecto booklet with a possibly oil-based gold ink/paint which stuck to the jewel box when I took the booklet out. Well, that's summer for ya! Whoops, I realized I'm not on the birthday list (better late than never...) 24 June, 1968. -=$>Dave<$=- ======================================================================== Date: 17 June 1992 11:33:27 CDT From: Subject: National Public Rhodio? Meredith's post-part regarding the playing of Marta Sebestyen on _Morning Edition_ reminded me that for all my daily listening to the various NPR magazine shows, I don't have any intuitive sense, off the top of my head, just what proportion of the buttons and zippers, as network insiders call the musical transitions between items (cf. the recent feature on NPR in either the Columbia or the Washington Journalism Review), are vocal; I know that more than half are instrumental. For all that, it certainly is worth a try to Happyvangelize to the _ME_, _All Things Considered_, and _Weekend Edition_ production units. They all hang out at National Public Radio, 2025 M St. NW, Washington, DC 20036. I heard, and enjoyed, the XTC story this morning; they have done such features on a variety of artists, and might well be receptive to doing one on Happy. I am coming to regard it as a genuine tragedy that my rechargable batteries have started to run out of gas earlier in the day than they used to (probably serves me right for buying them at Radio Shuck :-) ), for I now find myself missing large portions of _ATC_, to which I normally listen on the way home. Yesterday, for instance, I was cut out of most of the review of _A Woman's Tale_ (as I think the new Sheila Florance movie is called); by the time I was able to get to a radio at home, I had apparently missed some of their visit to an S&M dungeon. Why I tried to absorb Dan Rather simultaneously with such inimitable stuff is beyond me in retrospect. (A digression: Doesn't Greg really mean "clique," rather than "cliche," in his reply to Jody Ferguson's post? (A related digression: Check out the latest thread on the computers and acade- mic freedom mailing list--available on Usenet as the newsgroup alt.comp.acad-fr eedom.talk--regarding the assertions of a revolutionary socialist activist that free speech should be denied to fascists, lest they eventually walk away with all the marbles.) (Another related digression: At Meredith's suggestion, I posted my think piece on "Class Acts and Mass Acts" to .gaffa earlier in the week. Interestingly, I haven't been flamed once despite the references to Happy, Tori, etc.) Back from all the digressions: Hope someone posts Suzanne's e- and snailmail addresses real soon. Last week's _New City_ had a profile of Stuart Rosenberg of WBEZ, who I think is someone she ought to be doing business with. The same goes for a number of other BEZ program hosts, as well as a few on other local stations. For ages, I've been meaning to write to WBEZ's program director suggesting that they add _World Cafe_ to the schedule. With my luck, they'd probably put it on at 5 AM Sunday, knocking out _Echoes_ just before they got to the show with the Happy interview :-). Guess a noncommercial radio freak's lot is not always necessarily a happy one (no pun intended). Mitch Pravatiner ======================================================================== From: kyrlidis@athena.mit.edu Subject: Re: Bonus Tracks on 1st4, misc. Date: Wed, 17 Jun 92 13:56:56 EDT Hi, Dave says: >I was just wondering, >though, if the bonus tracks were composed around the same time as the albums >they appear on? As an example, "Look for the Child" sounds like it could have >been recorded around Warpaint-time rather than Ecto-time, judging from the >sound of the production. Funny how I thought the same thing... :) Actually my guess is that 'Look for the child' , 'Be careful what you say' and 'When the rain came down' were all recorded during the Bartlett/Rhodes days. BCWYS *is* a BR demo, and I am willing to bet that LFTC is one too. [it's those Kevin drums :) ] There is another reason for that. I guess that Happy and Kevin had in mind a political awareness/education theme for their BR work, as is pretty clear with songs like 'BCWYS', 'point and pull', 'LFTC' and I would even go as far as to ask if 'Waking Up', 'live in your word' and 'words weren't made for cowards' from _Warpaint_ were inspired from/composed from that period of time. Anyone? Tracy?? The songs 'Flaming Threshold' (love the line 'dance for me groupie :)'), and the 'Suicide song' seem to fit the 1984-1986 time framework. 'Take me with you' to me is still a mystery. Of course I am making *wild guesses* and I would really like to know if I am guessing correctly. Angelos ------- 'My brains fall out, they're loosely wrapped'- Happy Rhodes ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 17 Jun 92 13:57:30 -0400 From: gb10@gte.com (Gregory Bossert) Subject: Re: National Public Rhodio? Mitch gently corrects: >A digression: Doesn't Greg really mean "clique," rather than "cliche," oops, and me an old english major, at that... *blush* at least i know someone is reading my posts :) and it is with great respect and humility that i remind Mitch that Ms. White's name is spelled Susanne, with an 's' (two 's'es. actually :) Angelos has her address, and jess might have gotten it in PA last weekend -- i imagine it will be posted soon... if not, i'll give her a call :) thanks for the NPR address -- it's worth a try, no? foutah -greg -- gb10@gte.com -- "words weren't made for dictionaries" -- me ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 17 Jun 92 13:58:34 EDT From: jessica@maurolycus.rutgers.edu Subject: icb icb will no longer run on hardees. Please use the server on remus, it is generally empty anyway. I will deal with changing the remus server into the "Kate-Talk" server at some point. It hasn't been highly used so it's a low priority for me right now. The server does work (on remus) so for those of you who *have* been using it, please move to there, and let other people know. Thanks, jessica ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 17 Jun 92 14:16:14 EDT From: jessica Subject: Re: NOT MY SCENE, FOLKS... > Uh, well. I finally listened to all of the Happy sampler that Meredith > kindly sent me and I have come to a conclusion. She sounds overall more > like Alison Moyet to me than Kate. Yep, a lot of people think so. Happy's sings many of her songs in her low range. I don't think anyone has ever said Happy sounds "overall" like Kate, (though i'd be happy to see a quote to prove me wrong, in which case i'd ask the person if they still, having heard more of Happy's music, think so). What Happy does that *is* comparable to Kate is that with the particular tone she can take with her high voice, she is capable of sounding uncannily like Kate. That does not mean her music is anything like Kate's, or that she sings anything like Kate, just that she is capable of making your ears say "hey, that sounded like Kate singing something". > Oh yeah, the vocals on some of the > earlier tracks sound a bit like early Kate and the harmonies too, but > for the most part it's Alison Moyet. To my ears, that is. I can't > stand Alison Moyet. Sorry. The lowest voice I like in female vocalists > is Tracey Thorn's. Not that I'm lookin' for a Kate clone, but I did > first read about Happy on Gaffa. I don't really see the reason for > comparison I hope i've explained the reason for the comparison.. > [ ... ] > I am for free speech but want no part of a forum that would crucify one > person for her opinions, yet allow someone else to say something just as > nasty because it is politically correct to throw stones at that > particular person. Give me a good flame war any day over any such > covert backbiting. Neither are good, but one is more honest than the > other I have many times PUBLICLY STATED in as succinct and direct and politic a manner, that this mailing list, "ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu" has NO restrictions of any kind placed upon it. People are free to talk about *anything*, including their own personal lives if that is what they choose. I only once asked a member of the list to be more selective in his postings to ecto, as i was concerned that he was confusing and worrying people, and he agreed with me. I did not attempt to enforce what I asked, and I have allowed to go to the list *every* single of his messages. I don't condone some of what people say on gaffa, I don't condone some of what people say here on ecto. But I run this list, and I allow people to say anything they like on it. Please do not state otherwise, it is an incorrect assessment. > I subscribed to Ecto because I heard so much about Happy and how she was > on the same level as Kate (and in some people's opinion's, higher > Well, some people like Mariah Carey better than Kate too. I happen not > to. While I respect Happy for her ability to write and perform music, I > cannot say I enjoy listening to it. I like gloomy music on occasion > but I find The Cure fills that capacity just fine That's a good enough reason to subscribe. Some people subscribe although they have never heard happy's music, becaus they think they may liek it when they hear it and want to keep up on the info and news. Some people subscribe although they don't really like Happy's music that much, but because they like the discussions here, they like gettting the comments and info abotu other musicians that are frequent here. Also some people subscribe simply for the camaraderie that exists. (So i don't get misinterpreted, by camaraderie i mean just what the Oxford 8th says, a "mutual trust and sociability among friends". I don't include any additional meanings or implications by the use of that word. It seems, these days, that we've got to be as accurate as possible.) > I know dissenting opinions about Happy are not welcome here This is the *only* part of your letter, Jody, that bothers me. The rest of it makes sense. They are your opinions and I accept them totally, where I disagree with you, I can see what led you to your own opinion and that's fine. Where I think it makes sense to do so, i've tried to clarify why my opinion is different. However, this bothers me because i *don't* see anything that has led you to this opinion. And because it publicly says something abotu the nature of the moderation of the list (me) that is not true, I need to have it clarified. Can you give me (you don't need to send it to the list, send this to me please) a list of quotes and examples that make you believe this? I'd really very very much like to understand what has led you to feel this way, so that I can actively try to make sure people don't come to the same conclusion in the future! I'm really honestly sorry you have come to feel this way, especially if you think you'd be able to get good info from the list and have to sacrifice that because of the 'atmospehere'. (of course if you don't tihnk you're missing anything, it's ok :) I don't mean to sound egotistical as though everything posted here is intersting :) You say you 'know' this, not even that you suspect or feel this, so hoepfully it is not asking too much to ask you to describe why. Sincere thanks. > and I can > hear the cries of "BLASPHEMY!" even as I type. That is why I would like > to unsubscribe at this time. It's just not my scene, folks. Enjoy Heh, well i hope as i read the next posts that I don't see any cries just like that :) we'll see. What excitement! I've taken you off the list, this message is going to both you and the list. > Jody jessica || jessica || It is this that || Don't try to tell me there's no reason for || || lawrence || brings us || any moment in time, every memory of mine. || || koeppel || together. || Those years are lines of color on my face, || || dembski || --Kate || the past is warpaint. --Happy Rhodes || ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 17 Jun 92 11:19:52 PDT From: stevev@greylady.uoregon.edu (Steve VanDevender) Subject: NOT MY SCENE, FOLKS... jody_ferguson.asw.navairtestcen%pcgate@natc-fw.navy.mil writes: > Howdy, > > I'm not sure what the one fellow meant by "twisted sign of cosmic > balance" because Cynthia Rosas posted to Gaffa after a long absence. I > read her post and found nothing at all offensive about it. However, the > post commenting about her return sounded a tad bitchy to me. I > recollect that's what Cynthia was accused of and why so many people > dislike her. Perhaps, but she did it with a sense of humor. Something > that fellow's post was completely devoid of. It was as if Hitler > himself had come back to life and had the gall to post something to > Gaffa. My comment about "a twisted sign of cosmic balance" was meant to be a humorous note that both Vickie and Cynthia returned from long absences at nearly the same time. I can't say that Cynthia is one of my favorite people but I have come to like her. Although her sense of humor is as outrageous as mine is dry. Besides, didn't you know that Vickie and Cynthia are actually the same person? > I am for free speech but want no part of a forum that would crucify one > person for her opinions, yet allow someone else to say something just as > nasty because it is politically correct to throw stones at that > particular person. Give me a good flame war any day over any such > covert backbiting. Neither are good, but one is more honest than the > other. We had a very nice flame war over in rec.music.gaffa with Cynthia a while ago, one in which I was greatly embarrassed to discover that she loved having me label her as "a raving bitch". That's one of the reasons I respect her now. > I subscribed to Ecto because I heard so much about Happy and how she was > on the same level as Kate (and in some people's opinion's, higher). > Well, some people like Mariah Carey better than Kate too. I happen not > to. While I respect Happy for her ability to write and perform music, I > cannot say I enjoy listening to it. I like gloomy music on occasion, > but I find The Cure fills that capacity just fine. > > I know dissenting opinions about Happy are not welcome here and I can > hear the cries of "BLASPHEMY!" even as I type. That is why I would like > to unsubscribe at this time. It's just not my scene, folks. Enjoy. Oh, but this is Ecto, the Kinder, Gentler Mailing List. I would not be doing my part in upholding the traditions if I were to flame you. I may find it perplexing that some people don't like Happy, but I must acknowledge that they don't. See Jon Drukman's fascinating pan of Happy in the Love-Hounds archives for an even better example. ======================================================================== Date: 17 June 1992 13:19:29 CDT From: Subject: Another subliminal link between ecto and the real world :-) Today, as fate would have it, is the 20th anniversary of the Watergate break-in, which started a chain of events in motion which culminated in Richard Nixon's resignation from the Presidency on Happy's birthday in 1974. Nixon's birthday, in turn, falls on the same date as Greg's (I think--January 9). Clearly, Oliver Stone has nothing to worry about from me :-). Mitch ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 17 Jun 92 14:40:21 -0400 From: gb10@gte.com (Gregory Bossert) Subject: Re: Another subliminal link between ecto and the real world :-) Mitch reveals: >Today, as fate would have it, is the 20th anniversary of the Watergate >break-in, which started a chain of events in motion which culminated >in Richard Nixon's resignation from the Presidency on Happy's birthday >in 1974. Nixon's birthday, in turn, falls on the same date as Greg's >(I think--January 9). > >Clearly, Oliver Stone has nothing to worry about from me :-). now, i had just gotten through reassuring Jody that there was no conspiracies on Ecto, and Mitch posts the clue that proves that [deleted] fooXXX greXXXte.com -- "if XXXXXXXXa game, X win" -- Happy XXXXXX ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 17 Jun 92 20:38:06 EDT From: shane@sbcs.sunysb.edu Subject: A happy compendium of thoughts Ectologists: Some random thoughts... Of course I love the CD's. Some recent posts raise interesting questions I'd like to see answered. i.e., what timeframe were the bonus tracks written? I just can't imagine how "The Flaming Threshold" wasn't previously released. It's fantastic. I hadn't heard Rhodes II before. I was typing away when I kept hearing some damned cat. It was a while before I realized it was the CD. (It was the CD, right?) I've been a fan for a while now, and I really have to say that I find Rearmament to be the weakest of the 5. I love the direction she's taken, but I sure would like to see her write more of those lovely ballads as on Rhodes I. Greg: you're a pretty funny dude. Although the Jody person wanted to unsubscribe, I hope she stayed on long enough to read the replies. Perhaps she might have stayed. ObHappy: Any suggestions on how I can get a nearby tavern to hold a Happy concert? They have many famous people as well as local bands, but I'd like suggestions on how to approach them with the greatest chances for success. I would also like suggestions on how to get my local university radio station WUSB to spin some Happy tunes. -Shane ======================================================================== Subject: Re: A happy compendium of thoughts Date: Wed, 17 Jun 92 21:38:32 -0400 From: jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu Shane writes: >I hadn't heard Rhodes II before. I was typing away when I kept hearing >some damned cat. It was a while before I realized it was the CD. (It was >the CD, right?) Yup, it was the CD. "No One Here" to be exact. "Look my sun is rising and it's rising over there But there's no one here. There's no one here. I'm without a body to keep me warm And not even a *kitty* to share my storm." To me, it's one of Happy's most haunting and beautifully poignant song. It was also the second Happy song I heard (after "Crucify") (thanks, Vickie!). >I've been a fan for a while now, and I really have to say that I find >Rearmament to be the weakest of the 5. Listen to it some more, read the lyrics, pay attention to the arrangement and I think you'll grow to like it. I think Rearmanent contains one of Happy's weakest songs ("Box H.A.P." which has nifty lyrics and a nice melody but for some reason it just seems to drone), but it also contains what I consider to be some of her best: "'Til The Dawn Breaks," "Crystal Orbs" (), "Because I Learn," and "Baby Don't Go" (the interplay of the voices in that song make me quiver...and the lyrics are incredible--sort of an early "Ode." (note the .sig)). Not to mention such great stuff as "Dreams Are," "Friend You'll Be" (one of Vickie's all-time faves) and so on and so forth. A stupendous work. For me, it's hard to identify any of Happy's albums as weak at all. _Warpaint_ is probably my least favorite, despite the fact that I think it has some of her best songs ("Lay Me Down," "Words Weren't Made for Cowards," "To Live in Your World," "Warpaint") It's definitely a personal thing, though. Look at the discussions that ocassionally arise in r.m.g about Kate's best/worst albums. Most people consider _Lionheart_ to be KaTe's weakest, but of course weakest is a subjective term. Is it a weak album? Or just a weak "KaTe-Album"? >I love the direction she's taken, but I sure would like to see her >write more of those lovely ballads as on Rhodes I. Lovely ballads...like "Given In"--"I have a friend who's been inside my tiny brain/he's seen the aging and the mildew from the rain." Or "Case of Glass" (which makes me think of "Every Breath You Take" as written by a museum curator) or "Rain Keeper"--"'Cause I'm the other half of the psycopath..." what a great album. Wish I'd listened to it today (all I had time for were the B/R demos) Jeff |Jeffrey C. Burka | "Show what you are / Be strong, be true | | | Time for you to / Be who you are." | |jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu | --Happy Rhodes | ======================================================================== The ecto archives are on hardees.rutgers.edu in ~ftp/pub/hr. There is a README file explaining what is where. Feel free to send me (or leave in the incoming directory, just let me know) things you'd like to have added. -- jessica (jessica@ns1.rutgers.edu)