Errors-To: owner-ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Reply-To: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Sender: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu From: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu To: ecto-request@ns1.rutgers.edu Bcc: ecto-digest-outbound@ns1.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto #259 ecto, Number 259 Sunday, 14 June 1992 Today's Topics: *-----------------* welcomes Re: Unsubscribe 1st4 Covers... Ooops! WELCOME BACK!!! Re: 1st4 Covers... [New ECTOPOLL/Monsters] Rehullo's A more "normal" post Triv&Trav ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1992 16:03:34 -0230 From: eperry@kean.ucs.mun.ca Subject: welcomes Welcomes to all the new Ecotphiles and an especially *huge* welcome back to you Vickie! Good to have you back, girl! :) Beth ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 13 Jun 92 22:56:34 EDT From: Vickie Mapes Subject: Re: Unsubscribe Hi Albert! I'm back on the net. It sounds like we've both been having a difficult time in the last couple of months. I hope you're doing well and working everything out. I missed your wonderful and enthusiastic posts. Please come back soon. Thank you *SO* much for the videotape. We've watched it over and over again and have had it transferred to NTSC so we can share it with other people. Since you sent it I've become much more of a Tori fan so if you have any other wonderful Tori tidbits I'd love to see them. Did you get the MTV special? I didn't :-(. Re the Kate stuff: It was great to get the Wogan Rocket Man (you didn't have the official video, did you?) and all the other stuff. Can you tell us how to get ahold of the person you got the French SECAM stuff from? You said the Dutch fan club, but who specifically? Can you give us a name and address? We'd like to try and get a dub of the color originals, since our machine can play SECAM too. I think Nadieh is great! Some songs I like much better than others (such as Windforce 11 and Feminine...they're fantastic!) and thanks for putting the video on. I like some of the Sam Brown songs, but she's still pretty uneven. (I have her first album and it's uneven too) Of course the Laurie Freelove songs are great to have, thanks for them too! And the Enya! Wow! I love getting new music and I really value the tapes you sent. I've even played some of the songs on my show and credited "my friend Albert in the Netherlands." Thanks again, so *very* much! I hope everything works out for you. I myself have been depressed and suicidal and it's painful to try and sort out my head. I have a long way to go but Ecto and the wonderful people (like YOU!) who populate it help me get a grip. I don't think my depression (which has been going on for over a year) will disappear anytime soon (I'm sure it's probably chemical in origin and I don't have the money to see a doctor so I'll have to live with it) but my suicidal phase has passed. I'm not really as chirpy and perky as I come off in Ecto...I've always had a depressive nature. Thank goddess I'm chicken...:-) So anyway, YOU'VE helped me with your posts and I hope you come back soon. Either personally, or in Ecto, I'd like to know how you are and what you've been going through. Suspended always, Vickie ======================================================================== Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1992 11:39:05 +0800 From: Ken Taylor Subject: 1st4 Covers... yes, Ok they're new... but are they of the same things (monsters) or other monsters, or completely different... (I never liked the covers of Vo1 & 2) (sorry) :)... Can someone describe the new covers, or better still scan them in.... Since stealing Martin's 1st4 tapes, I have been determined to buy my own copies of the CDs, but funnily enough, the main thing that has been stopping me is the covers of the tapes... I just don't like them. Maybe as a late joiner to the ecto list I missed some stuff on this, but I still don't get the idea behind the covers. After hearing the KKFI interview (also borrowed) (You'll be hearing from me, Doug), where Happy says "My music tends toward the dark side. Now,this is the way everyone else sees it, I don't see it that way". OK, so the music isn't intended to be dark, I assume the covers aren't meant to be read this way either, but I still feel there is a problem here with interpretation, especially with the covers for Vol1 & 2, these "monsters" have a definite "dark" feel about them, whether intended or not.. I suppose what I'm trying to say is that my initial response to seeing the covers was not a good one, and I can't work out whether that response was just me, or if others have the same feelings. The covers will probably not stop me from buying the CDs as Happy's music really touches me, but If the CD covers are the same as the Tape ones, I'll probably feel self-conscious about them still.... Anyway, enough said for now.... Ken ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 13 Jun 92 23:47:12 EDT From: Vickie Mapes Subject: Ooops! Well, what do you know about that? I sent a personal message to Albert and it went to Ecto (and, uh, Ecto-request) by mistake. I feel so silly. Hmmm, I don't know what else to add, except that I'm *really* OK now and no one should worry about me. How embarrassing. Teach me to send e-mail from this account. I don't know a thing about the editing features. Well, suffice it to say that Ecto had *nothing* to do with my losing my job and *everything* to do with helping to keep me sane during some of the really bad moments. Poor Chris was caught up in something I couldn't explain and blamed the net (and my "obsession" with it) for something it had nothing to do with. As open as I seem to be sometimes, there are things that I really have a hard time talking about. My depressions are one of those things. I can't explain it to myself, let alone Chris or you all. I've been a depressive off and on since I was a kid, though I really thought I was through with it all. I haven't been depressed (clinically) for over 10 years. When the last one hit me last year, it freaked me out because I had forgotten how to deal with it. It's been an uphill battle, but I'm very fortunate in that I have Chris, my radio shows, music and the net, among other things, to keep me from going over the edge. One thing...Ecto was a great help in keeping me focused, but I don't consider myself to be overly dependent on it. My last major depression came when I had just found Kate. Her music helped me enormously and I'm glad it was around when I needed it. It was never a crutch, and the same goes for Ecto. I could go one for about 50 pages but I'll quit. Geez, I'm really embarrassed, but I'll get over it. I was going to sit down and write the whole story one of these days anyway. Albert's letter and my forgetting to try and edit the cc lines forced me into providing a few more details sooner than I otherwise would have. Now you know why Happy's music hit me in the mind, heart & soul. Her experiences with depression are much like mine, though of course, the circumstances are very different. I read many of her lyrics, such as Project 499, I Have A Heart, Under and Over the Brink, Suicide Song and *SO* many more and gasp in recognition. Scary, scary stuff. but I *know* exactly what she's talking about. Happy fears the label "mental illness" and I do too, but depression *is* a mental illness, and millions of people go through it every year. For myself, all I can do is realize that I am extremely lucky in many many ways and not whine in self-pity, try to work it out as best I can and try not to burden other people with my own mind games. I do admire Happy for being able to write it all out in her lyrics. I can't do that, though her lyrics help *ME* quite a bit. Bless her heart. Oh well, I keep getting a message that rutgers is going down for repair or something (I hope they won't show up in this letter) so I'll sign off for now. I imagine newcomers will be totally baffled by this post. It just occurred to me that *everyone* will be if in fact my letter to Albert *doesn't* show up. But I think it will and I'll know soon enough. (Har, har, now I know the *disadvantages* of having direct Internet connection. If this had been Chinet I could have killed it in the queue) Vickie (Suspended & Scrambled, but still capable of tying my shoes :-) ) katefans@chinet.chi.il.us or vickie@njin.rutgers.edu "Cobwebs, cobwebs everywhere" HTR ps, I've got Rhodes II (no more "Vol." didja notice?) on shuffle repeat. pps, Just saying that ("Shuffle repeat") is *surreal*!! I never thought I'd see the day! ======================================================================== Date: 14-JUN-1992 00:15:23.57 From: MTARR@eagle.wesleyan.edu Subject: WELCOME BACK!!! Hi! WELCOME BACK VICKIE!!!!! Wow, that made a great day even better. :) Mitch, I'm waiting for the day when the fact of our karmic connection is going to come out and someone will confuse us. When that happens, I'll die of laughter, and I assume you'll be doing the same thing? :> Incidentally, you should rework your statement on commerciality and post it to Love-Hounds, regardless of whether or not you subscribe. It fits in exactly with a thread going on there now as to the merits and "commerciality" of some of Kate's music. So who saw Happy in Philly today, huhhuhhuh??? I just got my AG newsletter today (ah, the magic of mail forwarding), and I really wish I could've made it down. I hope you managed to tape the WXPN interview, Bob! Anybody gotten around to calling Echoes to see where and when it's broadcast? I'm planning to do so on Monday morning, if nobody beats me to it. I'll try to ask for a complete list and post it so everyone who's covered will know (yes Valerie, I'll ask about Atlanta too :). ======================================================================= |Meredith A. Tarr "Feel the yearning for peace and| |mtarr@eagle.wesleyan.edu happiness..." -Happy Rhodes| ======================================================================= ======================================================================== From: kyrlidis@athena.mit.edu Subject: Re: 1st4 Covers... [New ECTOPOLL/Monsters] Date: Sun, 14 Jun 92 00:39:02 EDT Hi, Ken writes: >yes, Ok they're new... but are they of the same things (monsters) or other >monsters, or completely different... (I never liked the covers of Vo1 & 2) >(sorry) :)... Can someone describe the new covers, or better still scan >them in.... HERESY!!!! :) but seriously, I personally (IMHO) think that Happy's monsters are *GREAT*. In fact they convey the feelings of Happy's songs in a sense. They are so expressive. Volume I has an urgency in its eyes, and is full of rage and fear(?), yet its hand is stretched out, and is either holding something in triumph, or is pointing at something/someone, or is fighting something off.[I wonder what it is?] And isn't this what Happy is singing about? Fights, personal fights with owr own fears, and daemons, fights for love, fights for a better world? Volume II, for me, is a symbol of the 'protector', the Asylum master. Anyway, I can not really put in words what I see in Happy's monsters, so I will stop here, and assure you that in the new covers of VOl. I, and II, you can;t see as much of them. They're there, but are hidden inside huge I and II's, in a white background. >Since stealing Martin's 1st4 tapes, I have been determined to buy my own >copies of the CDs, but funnily enough, the main thing that has been stopping >me is the covers of the tapes... I just don't like them. I will try not to be too mean, but you can always cover them if you don;t like them. It;s the music that's on the CD that is (should) be the reason you buy them. Ectopoll- who likes the monsters? (send a SUBJECT: Monsters yes to me) who doesn;t? (send a SUBJECT: Monsters NO!! to me) who has no opinion/doesn't mind (send a Subject: don't know to me) (last category is for Mitch :) ) Open til June 19th. Results will be out on the 20th. Angelos +=====================================+ |'My ears have parasites'-hApPy RhOdEs| +=====================================+ ======================================================================== From: iamecto@chinet.chi.il.us (kirstin hargie) Subject: Rehullo's Date: Sat, 13 Jun 92 23:59:39 CDT Hi all!!! Im _finally_ back home in chicago after nearly of month in Buffalo NY... lemme tell you it feels damn good to be home! If anyone wants any info on Buffalo just ask - i was everywhere in that city...uhhum well they would call it a city, but I would call it just plain boring. For those who don't know... I was in Buffalo cause my mom was in hospital there...she was in an auto accident on the way home from my graduation from uni. She was _extremely_ lucky, and is doing well now...although she looks a bit like a martian in her halo traction (she broke her c2 vertebrate), fortunately she has full mobility and is bopping around...well as much as she can. Needless to say we are both home now, doing well - just waiting til she heals.... Anyway just wanted to say a quick rello! now to the gritty details... received my cds - love em...havent had a chance to listen yet, but am about to...if i can find the cd player ;) Personal to Angelos - I need your address again....no I didn't forget....just been out of touch with reality :) :) Personal to Martin - got the message on the machine - thanx!!! more later :) if I forgot anything oh well...i'll write more tomorrow when my head is on straight again.... off to cuddle my cat - poor thing :) kIrI damn I hate this vi!!!!!! arggggh :x ======================================================================== Date: Sun, 14 Jun 92 3:32:24 EDT From: Vickie Mapes Subject: A more "normal" post Vickie here. It seems that only NEWS was going down for repair and not the whole system. My last 2 posts were rushed because I thought the whole thing would shut down on me. I didn't explain much to Albert and I didn't explain much to you all and now everyone's probably confused as hell. I was trying to catch up on Ecto and was reading old messagess. When I came across Albert's messages I was alarmed, especially when I saw the one where he unsubscribed. I wrote that short letter with the intention of expanding on some of what I said in another letter. When I sent it I realized that I had forgotten to edit the "CC" lines and it went out to Ecto. Then I thought I'd better write a cover letter immediately, even though I thought the system would be shutting down any moment. What a mess! Sorry, sorry, sorry!! A long time ago there were comments about the fact that there's something about Happy's music and Ecto that prompts people to say things they wouldn't say in other newsgroups and mailing lists. That's so true. Is it a combination of being exposed to Happy's painfully honest lyrics and being here in ecto which has a cozy, "safe" environment? I think so. There's probably a lot more involved, and it differs from individual to individual, but those are the basics. Even though I was embarrassed at what I wrote, it's true that in the past I've written things here that I've never told anyone else, except my guy Chris (there are a lot of Chris-types here now, aren't there?) and some of you know more about me than my own family. (My family life was ok, not dysfunctional, but we never *talked* and I grew up always keeping my feelings and throughts to myself.((er, that should be "thoughts")) Anyway, until I met Chris 10 years ago, I had a really, really messy life and my family never knew about a fraction of it. Keeping myself to myself was/is so ingraned that it's nearly impossible to talk about what's going on inside my head. By "talk" I mean opening my mouth and speaking. That's why my Chris had such a hard time understanding what was going on with me. He'd never had to deal with one of my depressions before and was clueless. I simply can't talk about it. I can *write* about it, but it all sounds just as silly written down as it does said out loud. Depression generally isn't rational, it just *IS*. That's one of the many, many things I admire so much about Happy, that she was able to articulate her depression in her lyrics. The woman never fails to leave me totally awe-struck. Anyway, the Subject Line promised a more normal post and I should get on with one. Hello to all the newcomers! Anthony, I read your post about Happy in the Tori list. I'm glad you found Warpaint, because the distribution is very spotty. I don't know yet if H&K will be sending the 1st4 out to the distributors they do have. I'm having trouble visualizing walking into Tower Records and buying a Rhodes I CD, but I hope it happens. Also, Anthony, thanks for starting the Tori mailing list. Congratulations to the recent graduates, Kiri, Meredith and Valerie. I am far from being completely caught up with Ecto so if I've missed anyone, congratulations to you too! Again, thanks to everyone who wrote, called, e-mailed and posted welcome backs to me. Big hugs to Doug and Klaus who have taken over some of my jobs, such as dubbing and the Birthday list. Thanks to Greg for re-vamping the FAQ. Welcome back Jessica! I just read an article the other day about the teeming millions who were visiting the Rocky Mountains and I had this weird, comical dream about you perched on top of a mountain with a Boom Box, playing Kate, Happy, Tori and others for millions of people below you. Remember the scene in Life of Brian, when Brian comes to the window and all those people were there? It was kind of like that (except uh, you weren't naked like Brian) and it was very surreal. I woke up and went "what the hell?" I got a call from Christine Waite the other day. She was at the Chicago bus station on a 15 minute layover, before heading to Wisconson. She was going up to meet her mother and from there they were going to Hawaii. She'll be back through Chicago the 20th and will be able to spend quite a few hours here before heading back to New Jersey. Hopefully other Chicago Ectophiles will be able to come over and meet her. I'll post more details when I find out exactly what time she's coming in town. Christine will be our first east coast Ectophile visitor. We'll get a visit from a west coast Ectophile in July, when Steve VanDevender comes and our first European Ectophile visitors when Klaus and Claudia come in September. (Boo hoo, Perttu called while he was in Chicago during his American jaunt, but we weren't home :-( ) What fun! Anyone is welcome to call and, if you have time, visit, while passing through Chicago. Btw, we'll probably host a Katemas, details just have to be worked out. Greg, when is the Boston Bash again? WHAT I DID ON MY ECTO VACATION (essay by Vickie Mapes) Well, for one, I became a real Tori Amos fan. Chris and I went to see her in concert and, by the beginning of the third song I was totally and completely hooked. I said some mean things about her (Anthony, you'd hate me if you read the archives) but now I take all of them back. Almost all, because I still dislike some of the songs on the first album, but I really was far too harsh on it. I know now that my sniping at her was mainly because I didn't trust her talent. My way of looking at it was that everyone was going gaga over her and all she had done was one really bad album (that, according to the liner notes of YKTR, she was actually proud of) and another album that had some good songs on it, but that had taken her (I thought) 4 years to make. I really liked the songs "Precious Things" and "Little Earthquakes" but none of the other songs did much for me. I most certainly wasn't going to give her too much credit. If it hadn't been for Chris, who was a big fan from the start, I wouldn't even have gone to the concert. We almost didn't get in because Atlantic had bought up all the tickets and turned it into an invitation-only bash. They did this even though the concert had been advertised in the local music papers for weeks, and the place she played (Schubas in Chicago) hardly ever sells tickets in advance, just at the door. Grrr! We went anyway, 2 hours early, and were told that _maybe_ there might be some standing-room-only tickets sold after all the record company/record store hotshots got in. I fumed, and would have left except that I (let's be brutally honest) was looking forward to getting in and seeing her so I could say "She wasn't all that great, ho hum" to anyone who asked what I thought. I amused myself while standing in line by showing everyone around me the cover of the 1st album. No one could believe it was the same person. Actually, I met quite a few Kate fans and even a woman from Philly who had heard "Feed The Fire" on WXPN and was bummed out that she had been in Chicago the 21st of March, because she really wanted to see Happy live. I gave away a few tapes of music, including 2 Happy cassettes. Well, once the doors opened we had to wait another hour for all the squids (my thoughts) to get in. A few minutes before the concert started about 20 of us waiting were let in, on the Standing Room Only basis. I think a lot of people who were further back in the line went home very angry, when they weren't allowed in. I'm so glad we got there as early as we did. The first song had me psychoanalyzing her "crotch-fixation" and the second had me wondering where she had picked up all these annoying mannerisms. The third song had me thinking "hey, this really isn't as bad as I expected, and, you know, her voice really is pretty darn good, and, hmmm, how can she play the piano like that...she's doing a very good job...wow, the sound system here is *excellent* and she's mixing power and silence in a very interesting way...actually, those lip smackings and sighs and intakes of breath and whispers are kinda cool and uh, ah geez...THIS IS GREAT!!!" and well, you get the idea. I was hooked. Even with all the talk here and on gaffa about her concert, I still didn't believe she could be as powerful and charismatic as everyone said. I had to experience it for myself. To use a horrible phrase, but very true in this case...she blew me away. All the songs came out sounding magnificent. Going in, I didn't trust her talent, which, as far as I knew, was studio manufactured, but I completely changed my mind as song after song mesmerized me and left me reeling. Her talent is real, rare and enormous! Since the concert I've read lots of articles about her that explains so much that I had missed. Child prodigy, alienation, rebel "rock-chick" phase, more alienation, distancing herself from music, coming back to it, fighting to be who she really is, in all the complex and complicated and confusing forms...etc. and everything else that led to _Little Earthquakes_. Before reading these articles, while still at the concert, she said something that made me understand her a bit better. Someone in the audience yelled out "We love you Tori" and she looked at him and said thanks. He said something like "your songs saved my life" and people started laughing, but then she said (paraphrasing) "no, thanks for saying that. They saved mine too. These songs are very good friends of mine" and I think she said (I was way at the back and she wasn't speaking into the microphone so it was hard to hear every word of the exchange) "We've spent a lot of time together." her sincerity, which I also had doubted, was true and pure, I realized. What a moment! We found out later that Atlantic had not given the tickets they bought to just anyone. So many of these things turn out to be horror shows for fans of the artist, because free-ticketers are just there for "something to do" or just to "see & be seen" and don't pay any attention to what's going on up on the stage. But in this case, Atlantic had only given tickets to people who actively promoted Tori and were really interested in her. Not only did I leave the concert loving Tori, I also came out feeling much fondness for Atlantic Records. What a turn-around! Meeting Tori after the concert was fun and exciting. She is really nice and sweet. I wish I could have talked with her longer but there were lots of people waiting (and she talked and signed autographs for every single one of them too.) One other thing that turned the tide of my feelings is getting to know Tori's lyrics. We only had the dub that Court had sent and no lyrics. Strangely, in all the times I listened to LE, trying to get it to grow on me, I'd never paid much attention to the lyrics. I couldn't understand most of them, and what I did hear seemed fairly meaningless. At the concert, I could hear most of the lyrics and it was like hearing the songs for the first time. The perfect example was "Me and a Gun." I had tended to skip it because it sounded really draggy and boring and I hated to sit through it to get to my favorite song on the album, "Little Earthquakes." Of course, hearing her short but potent indroduction to the song before she sang it in concert made me really pay attention to the lyrics. I had *no*idea* it was a song about rape until the concert. Wow! There are many more examples (hearing the line "so you can make me cum, that doesn't make you Jesus" for the first time is another good one) and, needless to say, we bought the CD (complete with, yay, lyric sheet) and it's now one of my favorite albums. Maybe all this should have gone to the Tori list, but I wanted to post this here because I have been the principle Tori-basher in Ecto and I wanted to explain my change of heart (and mind) because I feel bad about some of the things I said. I apologise to anyone I might have offended. I also posted something in gaffa about Tori. It was something I was going to post the day I, um, lost net-access, so it's kind of old, but I added some current thoughts. Now, I'm all caught up with my Tori-talk and I won't post anything about her in ecto or gaffa again. I mean, not as long as these posts, anyway. This is a classic "Vickie" but they'll be few and far between from now on. I just won't have time to be as long-winded in the future. I start a new job Monday and I still have my 2 radio shows to take care of. Every now and then I'll send Doug new editions of "Femme Music Collections" for his dubbing project. I actually finished 2 more, but both turned out to be country-flavored/influenced. I wasn't sure how those would go over. Artists range from Michelle Shocked to Danielle Dax to Patsy Cline to kd lang to Loretta Lynn to Jane Siberry to Mazzy Star to Tish Hinojosa and beyond. Only a few of the artists are strictly "country" artists, but all the songs have country flavored bits within them. I ended up doing 2 2-part Suspended In Gaffas using the tapes. Lots 'o fun! Btw, I also did a 2-part special on Tori in Kansas City and a Tori special in Chicago. I just finished part 1 of my 3-part Happy special in Chicago and the 3-part Happy special in Kansas City will air in a few weeks. (Part 2 of the Tori special will air Monday, and then the 2-part Warped Country special will air. Geez, that's confusing even to me....I have to record the Kansas City shows so far in advance it's a challenge to keep up with what's airing when. Anyway, at least it's been established that I still have my radio shows :-) Bye for now.... Vickie ======================================================================== From: iamecto@chinet.chi.il.us (kirstin hargie) Subject: Triv&Trav Date: Sun, 14 Jun 92 6:32:29 CDT Zavanafli!!! I just about wizzed when I listened to Vol.1 and Rear last night on the portable cd player. Wow. Never thought they would sound a hundred zillion times better, but they do. Neatoid. Now for Vol.2 and Ecto. Meredith writes about Gael Baudino. Cool author!! I haven't read the one you spoke of, but have read Strands of Starlight (S.O.S - and it really is that cause it's rescued me countless times) and two of her Dragonsword trilogy books... Gael really is a witch (of Dianic Wicca), and it's in clear focus in SOS. Well back to bed I go, hi ho! I'm still trying to catch up on al the old news...although I think im just going to start from scratch here. kIrI ======================================================================== The ecto archives are on hardees.rutgers.edu in ~ftp/pub/hr. There is a README file explaining what is where. Feel free to send me (or leave in the incoming directory, just let me know) things you'd like to have added. -- jessica (jessica@ns1.rutgers.edu)