Errors-To: owner-ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Reply-To: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Sender: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu From: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu To: owner-ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Bcc: ecto-digest@ns1.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto #1194 ecto, Number 1194 Sunday, 31 July 1994 Today's Topics: *-----------------* Re: "There's a bathroom on the right..." Re: "There's a bathroom on the right..." Re: Misheard lyrics ecto heaven achieved hippo birdie two ewes Re: ectopics (japan, velocity girl, mazzy star, ani difranco, alt.music.ecto) happy birthday to you...:) Re: Misheard lyrics Important: Usenet VOTE!!! (fwd) Important: Usenet VOTE!!! Flash Girls/St. Louis Re: Important: Usenet VOTE!!! (fwd) Today's your birthday friends.... Re: the Empire strikes BACK! Re: the Empire strikes BACK! Re: the Empire strikes BACK! Milla in Seattle Re: Milla in Seattle Re:Misheard Lyrics Re: misheard lyrics... ======================================================================== From: "Neil K. Guy" Subject: Re: "There's a bathroom on the right..." Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 15:47:17 -0700 (PDT) > >You don't need too much of a clue...you're right that it's a reference > >to "yon Virgin Mother" in the song, "Silent Night." > > As I recall, the line actually goes "Proud young Virgin" Hm. I remember "Silent night / Holy (nearly typed Holly ;) night / All is calm / All is bright / round yon virgin mother and child / holy infant so tender and mild / sleep in heavenly peeeeeeeeeace / sleep in heavenly peace." That's the English translation of "Stille Nacht / Heilige (sp?) Nacht" that I remember. Gee. Doesn't that just conjure up crisp white snow crunching underfoot, cheerful glowing Christmas bulbs on trees, Christmas cakes with white icing, heaps of brightly wrapped presents... Or schlocky arrangements of Christmas carols oozing out of department store loudspeakers while you stand in line with hundreds of other cross, impatient shoppers as teevee sets around the store urge you to buy more? Christmas is such an *evocative* time of year... :) Even for non-Christians who have to put up with the barrage of publicity surrounding the event... (although it is becoming more and more a secular holiday of course.) - Neil K. (pondering Christmas in July...) -- 49N 16' 123W 7' / Vancouver, BC, Canada / neil_k_guy@sfu.ca ======================================================================== From: Ethan Straffin Date: Wed, 27 Jul 94 15:57:44 -0700 Subject: Re: "There's a bathroom on the right..." Steve writes: >As I recall, the line actually goes "Proud young Virgin" I thought it was "Round Jung urchin!" Really, Steve. Trolling ecto is Not Nice. :) Ethan P.S. Silent night, holy night All is calm, all is bright Round yon virgin, mother and child Holy infant, so tender and mild Sleep in heavenly pe-EEEEEce Sleep in heavenly peace ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 16:34:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Ectophiles Guide Subject: Re: Misheard lyrics Okay, I'll confess: I always hear the line in "Runners" as "'e's goona steal my coffee" rather than "heartbeat." Must be something about living in Seattle, coffee capital of North America. Really, really looking forward to hearing the new album. --Neile neile@u.washington.edu ======================================================================== Date: 27 Jul 94 20:15:34 EDT From: Mike Mendelson Subject: ecto heaven achieved I am sitting in my office at work, listening to my brand new Yamaha speakers playing a CD in my new Pentium 90. No one else is here (they've all gone home for the day). The CD I'm listening to is the definitive Happy CD: Ecto. These tiny speakers can really *crank*. (Oh, and I'm actually working too!) It just don't get better than this, folks! -mjm ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 28 Jul 1994 00:04:05 -0400 (EDT) From: THE OLIVE-LOAF VIGILANTE Subject: hippo birdie two ewes Hi! Let me be the first to publicly wish woj a very happy birthday today!!!!!!!!!! Everybody, make a big deal of this and drive him nuts! ;> Meredith :) meth@delphi.com ======================================================================== From: jholt@pchem1.rice.edu (Camber the Heretic) Subject: Re: ectopics (japan, velocity girl, mazzy star, ani difranco, alt.music.ecto) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 1994 07:15:57 -0500 (CDT) HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!! :) CTH ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 28 Jul 1994 08:11:25 -0500 (CDT) From: Cheri Villines Subject: happy birthday to you...:) a very happy birthday to you, woj!!!! please accept this mental birthday cupcake, lots of chocolate frosting and those little sprinkles...(cheri leaves cupcakes out for any who want some)...hope it's a great day. :) ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 28 Jul 94 10:16:45 -0400 From: pearceja%pomis.dnet@wl.wpafb.af.mil Subject: Re: Misheard lyrics I N T E R O F F I C E M E M O R A N D U M Date: 28-Jul-1994 09:24am EST From: Lt Jeffrey A. Pearce PEARCEJA Dept: POSF Tel No: 52089 TO: Remote MILNET Mail ( _DDN[ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu] ) Subject: Re: Misheard lyrics Speaking of screwing up the lyrics to "Silent Night," when I was a kid I used to think the line Sleep in heavenly peace was Sleep in heavenly peep ^^^^ Sort of fits in with the manger scene, don't you think? Jeff Pearce wl.wpafb.af.mil ======================================================================== From: snpf@ugcs.caltech.edu (The Duchess Of York) Subject: Important: Usenet VOTE!!! (fwd) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 1994 10:03:33 -0800 (PDT) Forwarded message: ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 09:34:21 -0700 From: susser@apple.com (Joshua Susser) Subject: Important: Usenet VOTE!!! If you use the internet, you should find this at least interesting and potentially alarming. To vote on the issue described in the mail message below, send mail to: voting@qualcomm.com No subject line is needed, with the following line as content: I vote NO on this us.* hierarchy proposal. (or: I vote YES on this us.* hierarchy proposal.) Joshua ------------------------------------------------------------------ (from the net...) WHATS UP: There is discussion over at news.groups to start a new top-level hierarchy named us. The main argument being that the US of A should have an own hierarchy since everyone else has one. Now you might have whatever opinion on that, that is not core of the matter, but some people are trying to sneak in something very bad under cover of the us.* hierarchy question. They, and I'm talking of a cabal of seven persons calling themselves the "US Hierarchy Coordinating Committee" out of a net population of twenty million, want to sneak through severe changes in the newgroup creation procedures that would put them in absolute command of the us.* hierarchy. TODAY: Today when a new newsgroup is to be created, anyone can propose it, a period of discussion where anyone can participate follows and its fate it decided by a vote, in which anyone can participate. TOMORROW: In the us.* hierarchy groups can only be created by the cooperation of the US Hierarchy Coordinating Committee. After they have decided on a name for the group, and 'firmed up the charter', they will start a public discussion by announcement on a (by them) moderated group. If they decide that the group get enough support they will create it. The US Hierarchy Coordinating Committee is not elected by anyone. They are totally self-appointed. Their proposal does not include any rules or guidelines on how new cabal members are choosen, nor any ways to depose the current ones. To quote them directly: "The Committee feels that it would be better to wait until the hierarchy exists for a while so that the lay of the land may be better understood before proposing a whole system of rules for changes to the Committee, the creation guidelines, and the structure of the hierarchy." They themselves want to write the rules (if any) by which they themselves can be replaced, but they don't want to show us the rules, we should just accept them, they say. WHY: Why rip up the old democratic guidelines and replace them with this oligarchic mess? They say it is to make the us.* hierarchy more efficient and easy to use. Proposals to concentrate power in the name of efficiency always makes me wary. THE NEXT 40 LINES OF THIS MESSAGE SHOULD BE UNNECESSARY: Because this proposal should not be judged after how much good the the Comittee might do, and certainly not after what good things *they* claim they'll do, but after what bad things they *can* do since their proposal totally lacks any checks and balances. So what I have written upto this point should be enough to make you jump to the "WHAT CAN I DO" part:) MY FEAR: There have been much talk recently about how Usenet is lawless, about how various nastiness float around here, and about how the wild frontier needs to be tamed. I think that is what they intends. This is an attempt to impose authority on the net, put barbed wire across the frontier. I doubt that any controversial newsgroups will pass the comittee. I suspect that us.rec.guns will be as impossible to get past the comittee tomorrow as rec.illegal.drugs would be today. So therefore I urge everyone who has interests that is ever so slightly non-mainstream, either in reality or as pictured by the media, or feels that your interests might slide out of the mainstream soon, to vote NO to the us.* hierarchy, if you want a place to discuss your interests on on Usenet tomorrow. Around here I'm thinking of you who are any or all of pro-rkba, anti-WoD, anti-BATF, anti-censorship's, anti-clipper, libertarians, etc etc. [only 4 of which is correct about me, but that is irrelevant:) ] SO WHAT? So what? This will only cover the us.* hierarchy? The rest of Usenet will be as before? Right? Well yes and no. Formally that is right, but the net is growing at an amazing rate. New sites are added daily, many of them schools and schools lower and lower on the age scale is getting access. What do you think they will choose if given the choise between getting only the pg-13 us.* hierarchy, the R-rated normal Usenet or the X-rated altnet? Especially since the us.* hierarchy advertises itself as handling the US-specific issues on the net, I think most new sites in the US will play it safe and only get the us.* hierarchy. And the way the net is growing new sites will soon be in the majority and not long after that take up 90% of the total net sites. So if you want to say something that more than 10% hear, you'll have to go through the us.* hierarchy, and you better hope your interest is covered by the cabal-approved charter of a cabal-approved newsgroup. And if you have angered any of the cabal-members in the past you are f*cked. period. WHAT CAN I DO: You can vote NO to the proposed us.* hierarchy. A us.* hierarchy might or might not be a good idea, but under these rules it would be a disaster. It should be possible to just reply to this message (press 'R' on rn/trn/rrn), edit out all quoted text except the 1 line between the dashes, and send it off. You should however check that your mail is going to "voting@qualcomm.com" and not to me before sending it off. --------- I vote NO on this us.* hierarchy proposal. --------- After voting you should recieve an ack by mail within a day or two. If not then remail your vote. The voting closes on August 8, so vote early! IMPORTANT CAVEAT: In their CFV the cabal plainly writes that they will *not* accept the usual 'more than twice as many yes as no' criteria for group creation, and if they get defeated they also plainly state that they will rewrite their proposal and refile it immediately without waiting 6 months as is the normal procedure. They claim they can do this since there arn't any formal rules for HIERARCHY creation, just NEWSGROUP creation. Well most people assumed that in the absence of specified rules, the group rules would have jurisdiction, since a hierarchy is just a bunch of individual groups, but the cabal seems determined to steamroller this through despite any opposition. Kinda makes me wonder if they'd even follow their own rules, provided they ever write any that is. Therefore it is of the utmost importance that they are made to realize that the opposition to their oligarchic proposal is compact. Explain the gravity of the situation to all your on-line friends and collegues, and get them to vote too. This is doubly important if they are sysadmins or similiar. Get them to state that they will not carry a us.* hierarchy that does not abide by normal newgroup creation procedures. Thanks -bertil- ADDITIONAL INFORMATION: The full text (the little there is) is available on news.announce.newgroups under the Subject "CFV: us.* hierarchy" and with Article ID A SECOND OPINION: Quoted without permission under the fair use doctrine from a call to vote NO posted on news.groups by John De Armond: * New rules are being proposed by a new defacto cabal that replaces the voting system that has worked well for the most part, with a system of "bosses" who control what gets created and what doesn't. And it replaces defined criteria for passage or failure with the "judgement" of the bosses. It replaces the will of the users with the will of a few men sitting on high. This is the antithesis of the net spirit. * The proposed group creation criteria is most unsatisfactory. The newly formed cabal proposes to replace the current vote with an "interest poll" whereby if 100 people sorta indicate an interest in the group it is created regardless of the number of negative votes. This is NOT the way to create new groups. * The makeup of the cabal has been decreed from the cabal and no procedure for removing or replacing members is contemplated in this proposal. The highly controversial nature of several of the proposed cabal members combined with no mechanism for removal almost guarantees a spoils system with no checks and balances at all. "Piss me off and your group fails" isn't the way to run the net. * This vote is being conducted in a very abnormal manner, without the usual CFD discussion period. If changes are needed in the current group creation process, the proper way is to implement them in accordance with the old procedures until those procedures are formally changed. Change via fiat is again the antithesis of the net culture. For all those reasons and more, I urge everyone to REJECT this proposal and vote NO. This is a BAD heirarchy and a BAD proposal and deserves to die. ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 28 Jul 1994 13:10:22 -0500 (CDT) From: Laurel Subject: Flash Girls/St. Louis Work is afoot for a Flash Girls mailing-list and Web site. If you have any suggestions or want to be on the list when it comes about, please drop me a note. The latest edition of "Flash Paper" (a newsletter for fans of the Flash Girls and SteelDragon Press) is available as a textfile. It includes info on upcoming Flash Girls shows, SteelDragon news, and the SteelDragon Press Summer catalog. (SteelDragon Press features music, books, and comics by Emma Bull, Will Shetterly, Steven Brust, and others) Again, drop me mail if you want that... Also, anyone with knowledge of the St. Louis, MO area -- the FGs will be playing the Endless Effort Benefit there on October 14th. (The rest of their known showdates are in the Minneapolis area) They're interested in playing a house show down there-- or would like to be in touch with folks who could get them some good PR or other gigs down there. Drop me a line if you have any helpful info... And again, congratulations to the Flash Girls for winning the 1994 Minnesota Music Award for best World Folk Group! :) ::: Laurel Krahn ::: lakrahn@inst.augie.edu ::: GEnie: L.KRAHN ::::::::::::: "einstein reminds me of my dog-i wanna pat his fluffy head" - Jane Siberry :::::: GAT d- -p+ c++ l u+ e+ m* s n+(n-) h f+ g+(+++) w+ t+@ r x? ::::::::: ======================================================================== Subject: Re: Important: Usenet VOTE!!! (fwd) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 94 14:36:10 -0400 From: Dan Riley As usual, there is more than one side to this story. If you care about the issues, go read the debate in news.* and learn what they are. Voting purely on the basis of the message that was forwarded to ecto would be, in my opinion, completely and utterly irresponsible--the descriptions of both the current rules and the proposed us.* rules range from highly misleading to just plain wrong. Anyone wanting to see the longer message I composed before deciding this whole thing doesn't belong on ecto, e-mail me. -- Dan Riley Internet: dsr@lns598.lns.cornell.edu Wilson Lab, Cornell University HEPNET/SPAN: lns598::dsr (44630::dsr) "Maybe, leastways is the best way of all" -Caterwaul ======================================================================== From: klaus@inphobos.wupper.de Date: Thu, 28 Jul 1994 07:14:09 CET-1 Subject: Today's your birthday friends.... i*i*i*i*i*i *************** ***HAPPY******* ********BIRTHDAY*** ******************* *** Rob Woiccak *** *** John Relph *** *** Bob Kollmeyer *** *********************** -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Rob Woiccak (woj) Sun July 28 1968 children at play John Relph Sat July 28 1962 Leo Bob Kollmeyer Wed July 28 1971 Leo Mark Carroll Fri July 29 1966 Hacker Steve Lusky Tue July 29 1952 Bike! Kate Bush Wed July 30 1958 God Chuck Smith Wed July 30 1958 Reboot Kevin Knapp (smudge) Wed July 31 1968 Leo Eli Brandt August 5 Leo Martin Bridges Sat August 8 1970 BigGuy Happy Rhodes Mon August 9 1965 HolyGhost Martin Dougiamas Wed August 20 1969 Positive Tori Amos Thu August 22 1963 Leo Sam Warren Tue August 22 1961 Leo Don Gibson Wed August 26 1959 Virgo -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- _____ Klaus Kluge * klaus@inphobos.wupper.de * I'll be here, I'll be (in) Ecto! ======================================================================== From: Stuart Myerburg Date: Thu, 28 Jul 94 16:32:04 -0400 Subject: Re: the Empire strikes BACK! Valerie said: > EXCUSE ME?! False and defamatory statements? Nope. This is sheer harassment > by Ticketmaster. > > But this is an interesting possibility...libel in court documents?! Does > anyone know if there's a precedent for this? After all, if you're suing > somebody, then you're automatically making derogatory statements. I think Ticketslime is nuts for even trying this tactic. The judge will probably laugh them out of court as far as the defamation claims go. I have never heard of suing your opponent for what was said in documents filed in the pending case. Technically, statements in legal briefs could be found libelous, but I would think most courts would say such documents at least have a qualified privilege. > Of course, you have to prove that they are false to win a judgment for libel. > And since we all know that Ticketmaster really is scum, and truth is an > absolute defense, I say we win. (Alright, Ticketmaster, I'm ready to take you > on.) Actually, you only need to prove the statements are false if the libel involves a matter of public concern. Otherwise, you just need to show defamatory statements were made, and truth is a defense. In this case, since TM is a public company and this is definitely a matter of public concern, TM needs to prove the statements were false *and* were made with malice. That's gonna be pretty damn difficult. It's just a waste of court time, IMHO. I'll stop now. I think I've talked about law enough over the last couple of days on the Bar. Stuart __________________________________________________________________________ Stuart Myerburg labspm@emoryu1.cc.emory.edu "That tongue! If he became a eunuch, it wouldn't even matter!" - Tori Amos discussing Trent Reznor __________________________________________________________________________ ======================================================================== From: "Neil K. Guy" Subject: Re: the Empire strikes BACK! Date: Thu, 28 Jul 1994 14:03:11 -0700 (PDT) Stuart Myerburg writes: > Actually, you only need to prove the statements are false if the libel involves > a matter of public concern. Otherwise, you just need to show defamatory > statements were made, and truth is a defense. In this case, since TM is a > public company and this is definitely a matter of public concern, TM needs to > prove the statements were false *and* were made with malice. That's gonna be> pretty damn difficult. It's just a waste of court time, IMHO. But surely the point is that TicketMaster *know* that they have no chance - the mere act of filing a suit is a financial burden for the defendant. Hence libel chill. Pointless lawsuits are a common tactic used against environmental groups and concerned citizens. A large company will file a suit, knowing full well that a) they have no chance of winning but that b) their target lacks the financial resources needed to fight back and c) their target is going to burn a lot of money defending itself. An obscene but frequently effective means of manipulating the judicial system in favour of large power interests. - Neil K. (clambering down off soapbox) -- 49N 16' 123W 7' / Vancouver, BC, Canada / neil_k_guy@sfu.ca ======================================================================== From: Stuart Myerburg Date: Thu, 28 Jul 94 18:12:18 -0400 Subject: Re: the Empire strikes BACK! Neil noted: > Pointless lawsuits are a common tactic used against environmental > groups and concerned citizens. A large company will file a suit, > knowing full well that a) they have no chance of winning but that b) > their target lacks the financial resources needed to fight back and c) > their target is going to burn a lot of money defending itself. An > obscene but frequently effective means of manipulating the judicial > system in favour of large power interests. But if a claim is found to be truly frivolous by the court, the company can be charged with violation of Rule 11. That means, they (and their attorney) could be liable for the other side's costs as well as other nasty fines. So, that tactic can often backfire. Of course, it still wastes time and energy that could be better spent working on the case at hand... Stuart __________________________________________________________________________ Stuart Myerburg labspm@emoryu1.cc.emory.edu "I need more things. I need more money. Don't want to work. Want things for free." - Jane Siberry __________________________________________________________________________ ======================================================================== From: Mklprc@aol.com Date: Thu, 28 Jul 94 18:20:36 EDT Subject: Milla in Seattle Finally, I got the poop on Milla's appearance at the Crocodile Club in Seattle. The date is Wednesday, Aug. 3. The club is a restaurant and does not take reservations, so you will want to get there early for the 9:00 opening act (Somebody's Daughter -- don't know anything about them) in order to get a good seat for Milla, who will come on about 10:00. Cost to get in is just $2. That's right, $2. Plus drinks/food of course. Bring ear plugs if you sit up close in case the opening band is LOUD. Portlanders look for our group as close to the stage as possible It seems she was there a few months ago to do a private show for some record industry people. She liked the place, and booked it for this leg of her tour. (So said the guy at the place who called me back with this info.) To get there from out of town: I-5 north to Seneca exit left side of freeway (downtown Seattle). At bottom of ramp, make a right onto 6th. Follow it 9 or 10 blocks to Bell, make a left. Go four blocks to 2nd Ave., left to 2200. There is parking in the area. See you there! PS: Thanks to whoever posted the notice about Firesign Theater's appearence in Eugene. I went last night and it was utterly great. The good news is that the guys are writing new material and will be doing a new album soon. If you have never heard them, and you like Monty Python, the State, Duck's Breath Mystery Theater and other comedy troupes, go in haste and get a copy of "Don't Crush That Dwarf, Hand Me The Pliers," recently reissued on CD. They also have four other albums out. Fantastic! Also look for the CD of this tour. It combines old and new material, with a detailed history of the works and the group. I have been a fan since I first heard them, hanging around KPFK in LA in the '60s, when the program was Radio Free Oz and the Oz Firesign Theatre. Michael ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 28 Jul 94 17:17:16 PDT From: Neal Copperman Subject: Re: Milla in Seattle Mklprc notes: >>The date is Wednesday, Aug. 3. The club is a restaurant and does not take >>reservations, so you will want to get there early for the 9:00 opening act >>(Somebody's Daughter -- don't know anything about them) in order to get a >>good seat for Milla, who will come on about 10:00. hahahahahahahahaha I just had to laugh out loud when I read that. Yeah, those earplugs you suggested later in your note should definitely be brought with you, not because the band is loud, but because they are horrible!! Ugh. I was unfortunate to see them open 2 shows in one week here in San Diego, and I lambasted them here in Ecto. I learned that they are from the Seattle area (I think) and others up there had had the distinctly unpleasent experience of catching them a number of times too. Seems they frequently get to open for interesting artists. WOnder why that is? Anyway, since coming late doesn't seem to be an option for you, I would definitely recommend earplugs, or maybe even a walkman and a book or cards or anything to keep you amused and distracted. I'm very happy that nice-guy bass playing local folkster Gregory Page is opening Milla's show here Saturday. But, I am much more excited about tonights and tomorrows Jewel shows. Since it's been at least a month since I last said how wonderful local artist Jewel (Kilcher) is, I may as well give a slight update of what's going on. The latest plan for her debut album is 5 studio tracks and 10 live ones. The live songs will be recorded at the Inner Change, the coffee house that she has played at for the last year, where she attracted local and corporate interest. So, tonight and tomorrow, the live recordings (and video tapings!) will be taking place. I was able to get advance tix for tomorrow, but I don't know if I can get in tonight. It'll be really cool to actually be at a show that ends up as an album. The coffeehouse should be a zoo tonight with the truck full of equipment, mics, cameras....... I'm pretty psyched! Neal ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 28 Jul 94 09:54:10 EDT From: Lynne_Atwill@eyenet.north.net (Lynne Atwill) Subject: Re:Misheard Lyrics I was listening to a friend singing along to Roxanne, by Sting/Police. He was singing "ROOxanne, you don't have to turn on the headlights...". What on earth does he think this song is about??!! Lynne_Atwill@eyenet.north.net - ,___o -- _-\_<, ___ (*)/ (*) ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 28 Jul 1994 23:38:46 -0400 From: pmcohen@netaxs.com (Paul Cohen) Subject: Re: misheard lyrics... > >Perhaps my favorite "misheard" lyric is that song from the Police's great >'83 album _Synchronicity_: "Walking in Your Food Stamps." > My favorite misheard lyric is also in a Police song: "I'm a pool hall ace" instead of "How my poor heart aches" in Every Breath You Take. ________Paul Cohen______________________pmcohen@netaxs.com__________________ Philadelphia, PA __________________ ======================================================================== The ecto archives are on hardees.rutgers.edu in ~ftp/pub/hr. There is an INDEX file explaining what is where. Feel free to send me things you'd like to have added. -- jessica (jessica@ns1.rutgers.edu)