Errors-To: owner-ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Reply-To: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Sender: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu From: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu To: owner-ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Bcc: ecto-digest@ns1.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto #1171 ecto, Number 1171 Thursday, 7 July 1994 Today's Topics: *-----------------* Re: You know,,,voices. Drawn to ODD rhythms! Milla and clubs Flirting with neologisms and other stories Re: Drawn to ODD rhythms! Re: Drawn to ODD rhythms! Re: Flirting with neologisms and other stories danielle/sarah Re: Drawn to ODD rhythms! Re: Re: Wrong Century etc. Re: Drawn to ODD rhythms! Semi-official word from the management... Time Out Basia Re: irc woes West of the Spirit Eyes of Rain (fwd) Eyes of Rain ======================================================================== From: snpf@ugcs.caltech.edu (The Duchess Of York) Subject: Re: You know,,,voices. Date: Wed, 6 Jul 1994 11:36:43 -0800 (PDT) Ian wrote: > > >>>>> "Sarah" == Sarah Noelle Pratt Ferguson writes: > > > *I* have a hard time hearing *low* voices. It is easier for *Me* to > > hear higher voices. The study I spoke about before was saying that > > womyn hear womyn's voices better, and men hear men's voices better. > > Is it plausible that this is simply because we understand the mappings > from our own articulation to (our perception of) the produced sound > better than that of people with differently pitched voices? And that > (usually uncompleted) re-articulation forms some part of the recognition > process? It's an idea, but I'm no linguistics expert. > > I. > I think so. Very nicely put. nympf, -esa ======================================================================== From: "Ralph A. Pincus" Subject: Drawn to ODD rhythms! Date: Wed, 6 Jul 1994 17:21:37 -0400 (EDT) Hi. I've got a musician-weenie question, so non-musicians may want to delete now. Proceed at your own risk. You've been warned. ;) [weenie mode ON] Ever since I was turned on to King Crimson, Gentle Giant, etc. I have been enchanted and fascinated by music written in odd meters (i.e., 5, 7, 11, 13). At first it was definitely the intoxication of extraordinary musicianship ("Wow, how do they DO that?"), but over time my appreciation has become more visceral. These meters FEEL good. I am especially thrilled by performers who can use these rhythms effectively in a pop song context. Some famous examples that come to mind are "Solsbury Hill" by Peter Gabriel (in 7), "Living in the Past" by Jethro Tull (in 5), and "Money" by Pink Floyd (in 7). The song that really blew my doors off, though, was Jane Siberry's "I Muse Aloud," which is in 5. To me, that song is simply *brilliant*, nuff said. Other ecto-related songs in odd meters include: "God" by Tori (in 7, or 3+4, or 6+8, depending on how you count it) "Guppy" by The Moon Seven Times (in 5) "Always" by October Project (in 5) Can anybody out there direct me to similar stuff I may not be aware of? Please don't bother suggesting any of the traditional prog-rock like Genesis, Yes, KC, Gentle Giant, etc. That's old (though beloved) ground for me. Say, does Happy ever indulge in these rhythmic oddities? I only have Equipoise and Warpaint, but I haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary (rhythmically, that is). Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. --Josh (who STILL can't follow U.K.'s "Presto Vivace") [weenie mode OFF] ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 6 Jul 94 14:32:49 PDT From: Neal Copperman Subject: Milla and clubs I'm just curious, but is Milla getting any advertising other than in ECTO? She's coming here at the end of the month, and I saw a one line mention in the paper. Tix on sale last Wednesday. I stopped at a Ticketmaster on Saturday, and they brought up 3 seats in the front row. The place is small, but I didn't want to be stuck on the side, and they had no seating chart, so I didn't buy them. Closed SUnday and Monday, but I returned on Tuesday, to find I had only $32 in my wallet and the money machine was down. Not enough to cover the service charges on the $10 tickets. However, I had learned the layout of the small theater (250 seats) and that the tix I turned down were front row center. But they were still there. I returned today, with money, and yes, the 3 front row center tickets were still there. So, one week after tickets went on sale, I may be the only person to have bought them! This doesn't bode well for the show actually taking place though :( And her playing at 15 Minutes in DC (an incredibly tiny club) reminded me of the last time I was there. I went to see Baltimore band Lambs Eat Ivy, a maniacal ensemble you can think of as Hindu hillbillies, singing songs like "My BUddha has Orbs" and "Shiva" with a hillbilly twang and geetar, banjo, fiddle and washboard accompaniment. (Ah, where are they now.) But anyway, I drove down there to see the show, but was unfamiliar with the club. Turns out it is right around the corner from the block where the prostitutes are. In looking for parking, I got stuck in incredibly slow moving traffic, that would cruise along and stop every few feet to chat with the "ladies". It took at least 20 minutes to cover that block, and one way streets directed my course back to the club. I was careful to not get steered onto the same street again, so I avoided the turn lane. Traffic was still crawling, accept for the far left lane, where cars zipped by so fast I couldn't get out of the middle lane. I patiently waited until I would be able to pass the questionable block causing all the ruckus. Just as I prepared to go through the intersection in the middle lane, a car in the left lane decided to turn right. It cut in front of me, and I turned right too, scraping my bumper along the side of the car. Guess they were really anxious to get to those hookers! So we pull over, and this big black man in a fur coat gets out. Now, I'm in downtown DC, on a block full of prostitutes, and I'm pretty nervous. People get killed for stuff like this! The guy looks at his car, apologizes, gives me a cheep, flimsy fake looking card saying he is a software consultant, and we go on our way. Or actually, pull back into the gawking, slow moving line of cars, since I was again trapped on prostitute way. And by the time I got to the club, Lambs Eat Ivy were playing their final song. Not the best concert, but an interesting evening! Hey Ian! Welcome to Ecto! (Ian's my old college friend. I dragged him in after his recent visit with me.) Apologies to our already existing ian, but one's an ee-in and one's a yon. Too bad they are spelt the same way, but that should be enough info for Vickie to make up new names for you :) Neal ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 6 Jul 1994 17:03:52 CDT From: Subject: Flirting with neologisms and other stories >"flirts with dodecaphony" - what does this mean!!! Translated literally, it means "twelve sounds." I'm not sure how this would contrast literally with Kurt Weill's music. For all that, I'm supremely confident that Emily is no phony at the dodeca :-). I'm of course glad that the Tori interview on _All Things Considered_ has been immortalized on tape within the ecto community. My thumbnail description, done under the gun yesterday, does not do justice to the richness of its content. Now if we could only figure out how to get Happy on that show.... WRT Martin's query: The duplicate posts--which apparently have now ceased-- were a function of some glitch in the gateway betwen the list server and the local news feed at Rutgers. It happened on at least one previous occasion, and was eventually corrected then as well. Mitch ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 6 Jul 1994 15:03:50 -0700 (PDT) From: David Dixon Subject: Re: Drawn to ODD rhythms! On Wed, 6 Jul 1994, Ralph A. Pincus wrote: > > Ever since I was turned on to King Crimson, Gentle Giant, etc. I have been > enchanted and fascinated by music written in odd meters (i.e., 5, 7, 11, 13). > > Can anybody out there direct me to similar stuff I may not be aware of? I love odd meters as well. Here are some of my favorites: Primus, "Eleven" (11, aptly enough) Nine Inch Nails, "March of the Pigs" (7+7+7+8) Nine Inch Nails, "The Becoming" (13, or 7+6) Sting, "Love Is The Seventh Way" (7) Yanni, "Nostalgia" (fast part has 5 beats of 5-plets) Frank Zappa, you name it Honorable mention goes to The Stone Roses' "Fools Gold". The drum beat is standard 4/4, but it repeats with a cycle of 5 measures throughout the whole song. D^2 ======================================================================== From: jzitt@ssnet.com (Joseph Zitt) Subject: Re: Drawn to ODD rhythms! Date: Wed, 6 Jul 1994 18:28:28 -0400 (EDT) Josh speaks: > Can anybody out there direct me to similar stuff I may not be aware of? > Please don't bother suggesting any of the traditional prog-rock like > Genesis, Yes, KC, Gentle Giant, etc. That's old (though beloved) ground > for me. Hmmm: Off da toppa ma head: - Almost anything by Metallica before their most recent album. - Doctor Nerve - Early Phillip Glass - Jazz compositions by Don Ellis - Dave Brubeck's "Take Five" and "Blue Rondo Alla Turk". - Ofra Haza "7/8 Thing" (from "Kirya") - Stick People You might also check out traditional Bulgarian music and music from around there. Rather than dividing a measure into equal parts, as we do, they construct patterns of long (3 sub-beats) and short (2 sub-beats) beats. Thus, a song might be based on a 3+2+2+3+2+3 pattern (like DAdadaDAdaDAdaDAdadaDAdaDAdada). One of these days I should put on an H[BG]P tape my "The New Tax Laws and You" -- the drums go in 9, the bass is in 13, and the flute/guitar melody is in eight, though bass, drums, and flute were free to vary their rhythms (the drum, being a machine, wasn't). I also did a big composition (about an hour) named "Shofar", much of which was built around rhythmic patterns like 3-1-3-2-3-1-3-4-3-1-3-2-3-1-3-5, etc. Joe (scratching up old ethnomusicology memories) ======================================================================== From: jzitt@ssnet.com (Joseph Zitt) Subject: Re: Flirting with neologisms and other stories Date: Wed, 6 Jul 1994 19:00:29 -0400 (EDT) Mitch munches: > > >"flirts with dodecaphony" - what does this mean!!! > > Translated literally, it means "twelve sounds." I'm not sure how this would > contrast literally with Kurt Weill's music. For all that, I'm supremely > confident that Emily is no phony at the dodeca :-). "Dodecaphony" refers to what is often called twelve-tone composition. Depending on who your composition professor was, it was obvious that it was a) a crackpot scheme or b) the salvation of modern music. To oversimplify, some people thought that, by the time that Wagner and Debussey got their licks in, harmony had just about had it, and the concept of anything being "in a key" was worn out. Then Arnold Schoenberg (and some contemporaries) had a nifty idea: Take the twelve tones of the chromatic scale (that is, C C# D D# E F F# G G# A A# B), put them in a predefined sequence, then do your composing by kicking that sequence around so that no note appears more often than any other note. A few people (Schoenberg, Webern, Boulez) did some wonderful music with this system. Others did some good stuff despite using it. Most others (including a cabal based at Columbia and Princeton in days gone by) got more interested in mathematical permutations than in sound and wrote lots of unintentionally funny articles trying to prove that their way of writing was intrinsically, mathematically superior to other forms. Unfortunately, they also managed to get people to *play* their music, and got into an annoying habit of giving each other Pulitzer Prizes. When people talk about not liking "modern music", this is what they've talking about. ...and of course, Schoenberg himself once said "There are a lot of good melodies yet to be written in C Major." Joe (who wonders where his ethnomusicology hat got to, tosses his music critic hat to Bartholemew Cubbins, and gets back to writing the dodecaphonic (yup) score to his latest hypertext...) ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 6 Jul 94 19:26:22 EDT From: woj@remus.rutgers.edu (we are penguins) Subject: danielle/sarah Alex sez: >Lasagna Breeze? *chuckle* don't ask. i forgot. ;) >Do you ask because this news isn't as recent as the Lemon Kitten's >news is? (Is that correct?) That would be a good point. no, i asked cos i wasn't sure if you were thinking of her solo albums or the lemon kitten stuff. to be honest, the solo stuff had slipped my mind since at least _inky bloaters_ was already on disc (my copy is on awesome records) and i had assumed that the other two were also already released on disc. essentially, i was just making sure that i hadn't managed to make myself completely unclear over on love-hounds (it wouldn't be the first time). >Are these all import only, including the Lemon Kittens? yes. biter of thorpe records (incidentially, they have a rather interesting logo which i really can't describe) which has released the lemon kittens stuff is distributed by world serpent distribution in the uk only. alas. Mklprc@aol.com sez: >Here in radio-deprived Portland, it seems that what passes for an >alternative-rock station, KBBT 91AM, is playing the second version of >"Possession" from the CD single! hmmm. that's the second or third station i've heard about which played "possesion ii." meredith and i were amused to hear about a bunch of people trying to find a copy of that version at a record store on the connecticut shoreline who didn't know that it was only available on canadian single. hee! ;) +w ======================================================================== Subject: Re: Drawn to ODD rhythms! Date: Wed, 6 Jul 94 16:34:26 PDT From: Eli Brandt > From: jzitt@ssnet.com (Joseph Zitt) > Hmmm: Off da toppa ma head: A couple more: - Bela Fleck - Laurie Anderson > - Doctor Nerve Oh yeah. I just bought the live CD _Did Sprinting Die_, and I'm pretty amazed they could do some of that live... > You might also check out traditional Bulgarian music and music from > around there. Rather than dividing a measure into equal parts, as we > do, they construct patterns of long (3 sub-beats) and short (2 > sub-beats) beats. Indian rhythms have similar structures -- not always 2 and 3, though. I was playing with some classical ones from a book and was a little disappointed to find ones for every total beat count from 6 to 24 or so... except for poor 13. Eli ebrandt@hmc.edu ======================================================================== From: Troy Wollenslegel Subject: Re: Re: Wrong Century etc. Date: Wed, 6 Jul 94 21:00:14 EDT > > Greetings all! > > Sorry about the delay of this reply. > > On July 1, Warpy commented > > >"...popular view of time travel..." > > Actually, Slaughterhouse Five does not use a commonly held view of time > travel. In a sense, it has no time travel. It deals with a character that > is randomly pops into his own consciousness throughout various points in his > life. Yes, the life/time line is linear, but he has no control over the > "excursions" and retains full awareness of each "trip". Therefore, he knows > of his adult life while still in early childhood, etc. The movie got a bit > tedious at times, but the story concept was interesting. > > Bob. > I have been reading a book called Replay by Ken Grimwood which has a similar plot. It is quite good and I recomend it for reading. Lets see here is what the back says: "Jeff Winston didn't know he was a replayer. Until he died. Then he woke up twenty-five years younger. And lived another life. And died again. And lived another life. And again and again... Maybe in one of these lifetimes, he'll get it right." It only happens to Jeff when it dies, but it is kinda neat so far. Troy -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= = Troy Andrew Wollenslegel - tawollen@mtu.edu = N8XLE@W8YY - - 824 Brown St #1, Ann Arbor MI 48104 313-769-2265(home) 313-973-8300(work)- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ======================================================================== From: jzitt@ssnet.com (Joseph Zitt) Subject: Re: Drawn to ODD rhythms! Date: Wed, 6 Jul 1994 21:23:52 -0400 (EDT) D^2 noted^2: > I love odd meters as well. Here are some of my favorites: > > Primus, "Eleven" (11, aptly enough) /me slaps head remembering, of course, the Grateful Dead's "The Eleven". joe (listening to D'Cuckoo and having the pleasantly disorienting feeling of having placed his ears inside a giant resonant tinkertoy) ======================================================================== From: Robert Lovejoy Date: Wed, 6 Jul 1994 21:38:41 -0400 Subject: Semi-official word from the management... Hello ecto: I finally reached Susanne White today. Though she was quite busy, she'd like everyone to know Happy is now in rehearsal for the definate performance at Joyous Lake in Woodstock on Aug. 11. Showtime is not yet established, nor are costs. Advance tickets will not be available. Those of you planning on seeing the show should be glad to know it's a go. There may be problems with reservations due to the Big Festival, but to those who can make the trip, we expect a full report!!! I hope I can go, but may have to work... Best wishes to all from my new account! Bob the totally-connected-to-the-net! ======================================================================== From: Robert Lovejoy Date: Wed, 6 Jul 1994 22:54:49 -0400 Subject: Time Out The Brubeck albums with non 4/4 time sigs are Time Out and Time Further Out. Another Jazzman with a different sound was Don Sebesky, who recorded some very complex meters (my first 11!:)) I thought there were a few more tunes on 10 Summoner's Tales with unusual meters (Love Is Stronger...). I agree that unusual meters make some interesting listening, but a good melody or melodic structure is also vital. Bobbidy-Bo-Bo-Bob, the elder ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 7 Jul 1994 02:05:45 -0600 (MDT) From: Damon Harper Subject: Basia Hello... a friend heard the name "basia" somewhere and wanted to know if anyone here knows who she is (musical artist obviously ;) So, does anyone know? Thanks and *HUGS* Damon -- ]*[ -- "Days go by endlessly, endlessly pulling you into the future." - Laurie Anderson, "White Lily" /~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\ /~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\ /~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\ ( Damon_Harper@mindlink.bc.ca X nomad@kazak.nmsu.edu X nomad@helix.net ) \_____________________________/ \______________________/ \_________________/ ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 7 Jul 1994 12:59:13 +0000 From: S.L.Fagg@bnr.co.uk (Nightwol) Subject: Re: irc woes At 6:43 pm 27/6/94 -0700, Neal Copperman wrote: >Sorry to clog up ecto with this, but the IRC server I always use is >gone gone gone :( None of the others that were thrown out in >past discussions seem to do anything for me. If anyone has any >suggestions on places I can telnet to for IRCing, they'd be >greatly appreciated. Much to my consternation, I too find myself in this position. In the six months I've been on #Ecto and other channels I've become deeply enamoured of that form of communication. Now it's been taken away! I feel bereft. :-( So, please! If anybody has any leads on places to which one can telnet to run an irc client don't hesitate to put me out of my misery. I would be forever in your debt. I would even consider paying for an account somewhere, as long as I could run an irc client from that account. Any information on the prospects of this would be welcomed too. -- Regards Steve Fagg ( S.L.Fagg@bnr.co.uk +44-279-402437 ) BNR Europe Ltd., London Road, Harlow, Essex, CM17 9NA, UK *** We tried to add it all up and got merely sunrise. *** *** Try putting that in a letter to someone in exile. *** ======================================================================== Date: 07 Jul 94 11:00:54 EDT From: Mike Mendelson Subject: West of the Spirit Tam, Patty and I had the distinct pleasure and privilege of seeing a very hot band from Vancouver, Canada, called Spirit of the West. The energy present on their 3 CD's (and esp. their 1st and 2nd CD's) is tenfold live. They all jump up and down and around, each playing many instruments (accordian, flute, mandolin or may be lute-type thing, guitars, bass) and the drummers is *fantastic*. Well, they're all fantastic. The only bad thing about the show was they were one of 3 groups playing at the Elbo Room so they only played for less than an hour. Spirit of the West will be touring with the Tragically Hip in Aug. They will be back in Chicago at Metro, and I presume they will hit other spots around the country as well so look out for them. I asked for a tour schedule, but all they could muster up was a business card. They said if you send them a fax they'll send you a schedule, so Holly, you might want to try that. SofW: Management Janet Forsyth #506-119 W. Pender St. Vancouver, BC Canada V6B1S5 Ph: 604-681-4374 Fax: 604-681-5890 Comparisons I would make range from Midge Ure to the Pogues (although I believe the Pogues are Irish whereas these guys are Celtic/Scottish but someone will correct me if I'm wrong) to Big Country. Tower is selling their latest CD, but I was able to pick up the two earlier ones at the show. Janet (I presume it was Janet) said $25 for the two but when I said I only had $21 cash and could I write a check, she said $21 is fine. :-) (I had to buy beer after all.) As far as ecto-qualities, they do have 1 woman in the band who plays accordian and bass guitar, and who does harmony vocals. The lead singer is so cool, he makes funny faces, has a great voice, and plays guitar too. Hi, I'm Mike, I'm 14, and I only use 2 syllable words to describe things. The celtic influence is present, but SotW has a very hard rock edge to them, which makes them very intense. Oh, I would also say they sound like the Payolas (Rock and Hyde) who I also love, but who unfortunately never got the recognition they deserved in the states. In any case, needless to say, I would very strongly recommend you check these guys out when they come to your town. And Tam says the Hip put on a great show of their own, so that should be a truly fine double bill. Anyone else in Chicago planning to check out Kristen Hirsh/Syd Straw Sunday night? I hope to be there. If my ultimate frisbee team didn't suck so badly, I'd say this was a near-perfect summer so far. ;-) Later dudes. Spankily-dankily-yay-yay-dowdy-wowdy-hodly-doe. [too much simpsons corrodes the brain, neighbor!] -ipalindromei [which reminds me in Harvard Sq. we saw a guy playing accordion who could play *any* TMBG song and any Sousa march -- he was really good] ======================================================================== From: jbshark@netcom.com (Jeanne B. Schreiter) Subject: Eyes of Rain (fwd) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 1994 08:19:53 -0700 (PDT) Forwarded message: ======================================================================== From: jbshark (Jeanne B. Schreiter) Subject: Eyes of Rain Date: Thu, 7 Jul 1994 07:28:13 -0700 (PDT) Eyes of Rain (the Milwaukee trip, 6/08/1994) I looked into your eyes seeing the pain encircled by blue auras weaving webs of protection against your limbs wondering where you've been for so long now crossed in the paths of rain storms fire and lightening raging pouring life in and taking the soul away bury it deep until summer soil sands wash it away it's the pictures that tell your plight eyes of rain machine human reacting deactivating until now some days are better than others that's what I tell people I look inside myself and listen watching from the inside out I find myself staring at their souls and auras waiting for a day when they'll understand what I'm saying Rain that caresses the ground cleansing my skin fulfilling an embrace that I know I'm missing how is it that I see your light but have little concept of mine my soul brother would know wish I knew where he was I feel I must stay in order to heal soften the skin in the alternate life but I am already well, wide awake, waiting to know where I fit in waiting for someone to join the puzzled peace Plenty. Plenty of time for enlightenment. Plenty of time for rain and listening not ever enough time to see your eyes looking in searching out waiting for someone waiting for you -JB Schreiter ======================================================================== The ecto archives are on hardees.rutgers.edu in ~ftp/pub/hr. There is an INDEX file explaining what is where. Feel free to send me things you'd like to have added. -- jessica (jessica@ns1.rutgers.edu)