Errors-To: owner-ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Reply-To: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Sender: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu From: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu To: ecto-request@ns1.rutgers.edu Bcc: ecto-digest-outbound@ns1.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto #303 ecto, Number 303 Thursday, 23 July 1992 Today's Topics: *-----------------* Civic duty HBP What Keith should buy Napalm Death SON_OF_FEMME_MUSIC Re: howdy all Re: Replies to the femme-music thread (FORWARDED) ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 23:51:56 PDT From: barry@gnu.ai.mit.edu Hi all I was going to go to the record store, and I was wondering if anyone would care to reccommend any particular album by laurie anderson? Barry ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 0:53:02 EDT From: Vickie Mapes Subject: Civic duty I feel pretty good. Today after work I went over to the library and 1) registered to vote. I haven't voted since the 1980 election and believe me, I feel extremely guilty about it. I'll never *not* vote again. 2) got a library card. Something I haven't had since the early 1980s. 3) donated one of my cut-out-bought Warpaint CDs to the library. They needed it. Not only because they needed Happy, but because their CD collection is woefully small. I imagine someone might check it out just because they've already checked out all the CDs in the library's collection 10 times and are desperate for something new. But, a lot of the CDs they do have are very good because I got... 4) Stella Chiweshe's _Ambuya_, _Musics of the Soviet Union_ and the soundtrack to the film _Say Amen Somebody_. I'm happy! The only bummer is that I wanted to check out, or at least get my name on a waiting list for, Al Gore's book on the environment, and found out that the library didn't have it at all! I was told that there was no budget for buying new books. I guess there hasn't been for a while, because the book came out in January of this year. What a shock! This is not some little branch, specialty, library, this the brand new, super huge (largest public library, check-out type, in the USA, world maybe) HAROLD WASHINGTON LIBRARY!! This is the 3rd largest city in America, and this is their library! Weird, and sad, and more than a little outrageous. As Al Gore would say "What time is it?" I say "It's letter to the editor time!" and then "It's time for them to GO!" and then "You better get your wife and Frank Zappa together on MTV *ASAP*" I have the article that Mitch mentioned about Sarah McLachlan. I'll type it in if I ever get more than 10 minutes to spend on the computer. btw, I've got the WXPN/Helen Light interview about three-quarters done. Soon it will be done, I promise. I bought the August issue of Glamour magazine today because someone in the Tori list said that there's an article about her. It's true, and it's a good'un! Nice, nice photos too. I felt so weird buying a Glamour. I stuck it in the middle of a pile of other magazines I was buying like Newsweek, Time, US News and World Report, TV Guide and People (I'm an addict, what can I say) and I still felt like I was buying a Hustler or something. I waited until I was on the "L" and there was no one around me before I pulled it out and read the Tori article. No way would I buy Glamour on a regular basis, but I think I might flip through it every now and then from now on, just to see what's in there. Not only was the Tori article excellent, according to the Letters section, a couple of issues back they did an article about 2 High School senior lesbians who went to the Prom together. How cool! I wish I'd read the article. I'm sure it must have been balanced and positive, because there were a ton of letters from conservative glamettes saying "Please drop my subscription." Now I feel like subscribing just to show support for that one article, which I haven't even read! Wrt Meredith's not "getting" Jeff's blurb, I'm reminded of a scene from the movie _Roxanne_ where Steve Martin says something like "Oh, irony, we don't get much of that around here. There hasn't been irony in these parts since 1983. I was the last practitioner of it and I stopped because I was tired of being stared at." (That's paraphrased, it's been a long time since I saw the film) I hope there's no hard feelings meredith, I jsut couldn't resist a little tweak. "Oh what, the perfect irony..." Vickie ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 08:56:34 +0100 From: Terry Partis Subject: HBP Hi there folks, hope I'm not bugging anyone in particular, but how's the HBP going? It all seems to have gone very quiet lately and it is only a couple of weeks to Happy's Birthday. Will it be completed in time or be sent with belated greetings. I had hoped that maybe a list of the offerings might have been spread about by now, even if only as an acknowledgement that various messages and items of music and tapes had been received by the ecto snailmail address. I'm off on a week's break next week so anybody with a birthday during that period is herewith offered Happy Fuzzy Blue Birthday Greetings. Happy times are here again Terry =============================================================================== _ __ Jolly Hockeysticks _ __ / `-' ( ,,, / `-' ( ,,, | I I ||||||[:::] | I I ||||||[:::] \_.-._( ''' Terry (Tel Boy) Partis \_.-._( ''' _ __ (tgp@ukc.ac.uk) _ __ / `-' ( ,,, With a smile and a song / `-' ( ,,, | I I ||||||[:::] I'm HaPpY | I I ||||||[:::] \_.-._( ''' \_.-._( ''' =============================================================================== ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 07:53:48 -0500 From: wiltel!dlocke@uunet.uu.net Subject: What Keith should buy I love to help spend other people's money ;-) And in Keith I sense a man after my own heart -- searching for good music at reasonable prices. Bel Canto's White Out Condition is available from "CD's We Bee" for $15 (on relativity recs). I have not yet ordered from these guys but I plan to soon. I'd really like to hear of anyone else's experience with them. Oh, they don't take charge cards yet, either, which is a drawback for me ;-) I was just listening to "Birds of Passage" yesterday and I can't imagine anyone being disappointed in it. I'd say go for this one. Clannad: The key with Clannad is that their earlier stuff, with acoustic instruments and more traditional Celtic songs, is much better than their later stuff, with it's stupid pop synthesized crap songs. IMHO, of course. Several Clannad CD's may be ordered directly from Shanachie for $12.50. Macalla is the best Clannad that Noteworthy has. I recently picked up the live album (that's right, vinyl! radical, I know) from Clannad, and it is my current favorite. PastPresent is a "best of", but it has several of their newer, crappier songs on it and I personally wouldn't recommend it -- though it may be a good place to start. -Dick ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 10:57:38 EDT From: tempest!john@sunne.east.sun.com (John M. Wheeler) Subject: Napalm Death Speaking of Napalm Death, does anyone know where I might find a compilation CD of theirs called "From Enslavement to Obliteration," MOSH 8CD (1988 Earache Records)? My former roommate had it, and I've been looking for a copy for years. It's got a bazillion tracks on it, many of which hover at around a half minute of sound. I'm in the Boston area, but if it's available through the mail, so be it. Thanks in advance, john tempest!john@sunne.east.sun.com sunne!tempest!john ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 14:39:00 EDT From: Chris Sampson Subject: SON_OF_FEMME_MUSIC Meredith (>) writes, in response to Vickie (>}): >What would be even better, imo, would be to see the world so used >to people of "alternative lifestyles" (to use a term that makes >me writhe) that no one would notice or care that the musician >they were listening to was gay or bi. People would gossip about, >"Hey, Sophie B. Hawkins is seeing that woman in her last video" >(which is, by the way, just a random example that has absolutely >no basis in fact) the same way as they would to, "Hey, didja hear >Kate Bush dumped Del for Geoffrey her gardener?" (see above disclaimer). >A lesbian love song in the Top-40 wouldn't be a >momentous occasion, it would happen all the time. Those would be >the days... Hear, hear....What are you , some kind of idealist or something? :) Actually, at the risk of being too serious about such things, that is just the sort of thing that exists in my version of Utopia.... >}In the same vein, there *are* separatists who will not listen to >}anything that isn't on a "lesbian/feminist" label. They're just >}shutting out lots and lots of good music by other women who >}could use their support too. >That's exactly what I meant when I made the comment about the >people at that Margie Adam concert. I respect their right to >like whatever music they've chosen to like, but I don't like to >see people expressly excluding entire areas of music simply >because they feel it doesn't fit their personal agendae. If >someone has tried other kinds of music than "womyn's music" and >then decided only "womyn's music" was for her, then the more >power to her in her hoice. But if she categorically refused to >even try the other stuff out there simply because it *wasn't* >"womyn's music", I'd be tempted to try the locked-room-o'-Femme >Music Collection experiment. If you want the rest of the world >to have an open mind, it's nice to have an open mind yourself. Final sentence there deserves being included in a book of quotes or something. I agree whole heartedly with the substance and wording. BTW, the above situation applies to all "cultists" (?) who've never tried a different version of ANYTHING (e.g., Dead Heads who believe that listening to The Jerry Garcia Band is a departure.) "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblins of little minds" -HDT >Now to the Indigo Girls question. Thanks to Mike Mendelsohn for >sending me the FAQ from the mailing list and a much more >definitive answer than I was expecting to get- the question of >their sexuality is most definitely not an unfounded rumour. And tp Jeff and >Cathy, who were so aghast at the fact that I hadn't >heard this rumour before: How could I have lived my life in ignorance of it? On a lurid and salacious side-note here, does the above mean that an unimpeachable source has said that Emily and Amy ARE INDEED LESBIANS????? >}And why not just assume from the outset that Sophie (or anyone >}else for that matter) is lesbian until "proven" otherwise? Simple probablility statistics...again (see below), the evil lies in forgetting that the assumption IS an ASSUMPTION...and the ensuing implicit tyrany of "breeders". When we pass someone on the street, we assume he can talk and read and make toast. Better yet, when we are cut-off by some "inconsiderate-bastard-who-thinks-it's-more- important-for-HIM-to-get-where-HE'S-going-than-it-is-for-me....", we ALL assume he's not driving someone to the hospital. ...>A whole bunch of other stuff about assumptions<... IMHO, assumptions aren't necessarily bad...they help us survive each day....and all that Happy Horse Shit....seriously, though the only problem with assumptions is that too many of us forget that the conclusion jumped to was founded on impressions and other soft data, and never think to go back and re-initialize the starting conditions, but rather cling to them and thereby change their status to that of infallible fact. The grey areas are not necessarily centered around the assumptions themselves, but rather, the value judgements associated with the conclusion (as in,"Sophie's OBVIOUSLY lesbian.....she's probably into S/M and hates men....ad nauseum") ********here's the central issue. -editor*************************** >}You keep saying that you don't want to judge someone by single >}lines in single songs. Why not? >Why not? After you spent a bunch of bandwidth proving your point >to me that using that one line from "Precious Things" as an >example of how a false assumption can arise from just one line >was "going overboard", you ask me why not? You've answered that >one for yourself already. >}Why not look at Melissa Etheridge's quote "Hello, hello, this is >}Romeo", decide that if it's Romeo calling, "he" must be calling >}Juliette, and therefore Melissa Etheridge is a lesbian? >While we're waxing hypothetical here, why not look at that "this >is Romeo" line, indeed. What if, from those words in one song, >we assume Melissa Etheridge is a lesbian, when she really is >singing the song from a man's point of view, and we're from USA >Today and we decide to "out" her for it. What if we're dead >wrong, since she's singing from a man's point of view, and it >turns out she's a raging fundie homophobe with an army of good >lawyers behind her? Libel suit city. *********************** I have no problem recognizing the fact that people jump to incredible conclusions based on pathetically little information (e.g., one line from one song...) I do have problems with the fact that people then want to base further inferences on the already shaky foundation of an assumption...and then form lynch mobs or burn crosses, or engage themselves in other nasty little hobbies......This is the central problem with people, IMHO. "Explain something so that no one can possibly misunderstand it, and some one will misunderstand it" -A murphy's law book I own.... >Yes, I'm well aware how absurd that situation is- but flash assumptions can >lead to some weird shit. YES!!!!!!! Woj writes: >as others mentioned, it's prostrate cancer. he's been noticeably silent >in the recent past on the subject, but i think that things are beginning >to turn up. the reason i say that is that i was informed that fz will >be working on upcoming ren and stimpy episodes - he is supposed to be >playing the pope in the forthcoming episode which will feature the re- >turn of the powdered toast man. go figure. Great casting, FZ as the Pope!!!!:) Well, that's all from THIS EcTophile/citizen of the world, today, boys and girls, hope the rhubarb is keeping y'all entertained and even enlightened....till some other time. Chris Sampson "Now let me get this straight, man not only am I WOman But I'm stuck in this spooky world...." -YKW ======================================================================== Subject: Re: howdy all From: "Mark C. Carroll" Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 15:33:36 -0400 Well, as long as people are mentioning address changes, as of august 1, my info will change to: Mark Carroll Quentin Hall #7 English Village Apts. Newark, DE 19711 (302)292-2899. (Yes, the site of the ecto-exhaustion after Happy in Philly will no longer be my home in another week :-(. I'll miss it a lot.) In other comments... I was in DC during Sarahs Philly concert, and in Philly durign Sarah's DC concert. I _hate_ schedule conflicts! Did anyone catch her in either place? (And does anyone know anywhere in Jersey or Philadelphia where I can find her first album? The more I listen to Solace, the more enchanted I become by her, and I desperately want to find more!) || Mark Craig Carroll: || "Only love || Univ of Delaware, Dept of CIS|| can make love" || Grad Student/Labstaff Hacker || -Peter Gabriel || carroll@udel.edu || ======================================================================== Date: 23-JUL-1992 21:59:38.10 From: MTARR@eagle.wesleyan.edu Subject: Re: Replies to the femme-music thread (FORWARDED) Hi there! Sure, Cathy, no problem- here's the message: Received: from cray.com (timbuk.cray.com) by EAGLE.WESLEYAN.EDU (PMDF #12650) id <01GMOEW1UB4W8WW2TU@EAGLE.WESLEYAN.EDU>; Wed, 22 Jul 1992 11:37 EDT Received: from gravity.cray.com (gravity-gate.cray.com) by cray.com (4.1/CRI-MX 1.6ah) id AA28687; Wed, 22 Jul 92 10:37:34 CDT Received: by gravity.cray.com id AA24220; 4.1/CRI-5.6a; Wed, 22 Jul 92 10:37:33 CDT Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 10:37:30 CDT From: guetzlaf@gravity.cray.com (Cathy Guetzlaff) Subject: Re: Replies on the femme-music thread In-reply-to: <01GMNOZ7L5708WVZVC@EAGLE.WESLEYAN.EDU>; from "MTARR@eagle.wesleyan.edu" at Jul 21, 92 11:22 pm To: MTARR@EAGLE.WESLEYAN.EDU Message-id: <9207221537.AA24220@gravity.cray.com> X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11a-CRI] Hi everyone! Meredith says: >Wow, I really poured the open can o' worms all over the floor on >this one, haven't I? [...] And I stepped squarely in the middle of them. :^) First things first -- thanks, Meredith, for your expanded comments on 'womyn's music'. It helped clear up some of the questions I had about your initial statements. Now, about this little issue: >Now to the Indigo Girls question [...] I certainly never meant to imply that you've been living in a cave or anything the past few years so missed the rumors about TIG. I assumed it was part of Urban Legend much in the same way the Richard Gere/gerbils rumor is part of it! Sorry if you felt put down, I intended no such thing. >just never paid any attention. So sue me. Nah, too expensive. :^) Here's my take on the 'womyn's music' issue. (As a BTW, do any of you feel that spelling 'women's' with a 'y' is a bit contrived? I don't particularly like it, but that's just my opinion -- so sue me too!). Anyway, I think that there's a whole genre of music that came to be in the early '70s that was written by and for lesbians. Since it just wouldn't do to label it 'lesbian's music', it got labeled 'women's music'. So now, when folks hear the label 'women's music', lots of them think of only Holly Near or Cris Williamson or Meg Christian or Margie Adam and simply dismiss it as unworthy. However, 'women's music' has progressed past the days of the guitars-only-coffeehouse-filled-with-lesbians type of music. Those of you who get the Ladyslipper catalog, take a look at the section they call 'Women's Music/Feminist Music' -- the range of performers and types of music are incredible! When I hear someone talk about 'women's music' when what they really mean is 'lesbian-with-a-guitar-singing-political-songs music' I always wonder why they use the term 'women's music' when they're only talking about a very small part. I'm not sure of my point here, it seems to have gotten lost in my ramblings...maybe what I'm trying to do is redefine the label 'women's music' to be much more inclusive instead of just using it as a euphemism for 'lesbian's music'. I think that not only Meg and Holly and Cris and Margie do women's music, but so do Sophie and Tori and Happy and KaTe and any number of women artists. However, redefining labels to suit *my* tastes may not be a wise thing since everybody else won't know what I'm talking about. But now you do. :^) Questions? Comments? Hey, did you know Ethel Merman was a lesbian? I read it in 'Urban Legends, Volume II' in the chapter about 'Famous lesbians of the past -- where are they now?' (it's the chapter right after 'Men who love gerbils, and the women who love them'). >Rock on, dudes. Eeewwwww, I don't listen to rock, and that's 'dude-ette' please! :^) -- Cathy Guetzlaff Cray Research, Inc. guetzlaf@gravity.cray.com +===============================================================+ | Meredith A. Tarr | | "I spent four years prostrate to the higher mind | | Got my paper, and I was free" - Indigo Girls | | mtarr@eagle.wesleyan.edu | +===============================================================+ ======================================================================== The ecto archives are on hardees.rutgers.edu in ~ftp/pub/hr. There is a README file explaining what is where. Feel free to send me (or leave in the incoming directory, just let me know) things you'd like to have added. -- jessica (jessica@ns1.rutgers.edu)