Errors-To: ecto-owner@ns1.rutgers.edu Reply-To: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Sender: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu From: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu To: ecto-request@ns1.rutgers.edu Bcc: ecto-digest-outbound@ns1.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto #982 ecto, Number 982 Sunday, 30 January 1994 Today's Topics: *-----------------* (none) Re: The 30/30/30 rule (replies to ecto) More on ecto replies, weird chars Re: Kate on NPR Re: Kate on NPR Re: ecto #974 Re: ecto #974 RE: Hidden Messages from God Re: More on ecto replies, weird chars Re: A couple questions... Victoria Williams on Letterman? Re: The Bottom Line Re: Victoria and Loreena an offer of TRS buttons... Meryn Cadell Re: Rhodes 2... Re: Meryn Cadell cornflake girl Life According to Four Bitchin' Babes happy.. :) Re: Rhodes 2... ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 22 Jan 1994 03:39:26 -0700 From: "Alex Gibbs" Subject: Re: The 30/30/30 rule (replies to ecto) Neil: > Finally, here's an ecto-netiquette question. When you reply to a > message someone's posted do you send a cc: to ecto and direct the > reply to their mailbox? I generally just send the message straight to > ecto so that the recipient doesn't get two copies, but should I be > sending a cc: out of courtesy? Gee, I *really* don't know! :) My mail program automatically sends replies to both places but I usually ovverride it and just post to ecto, like I'm doing now. If I think that the reply is really important to that person, or that they will probably want to reply to my reply, or that it is time-critical then I send it to them too. I figure if someone takes the time to ask a question then they will probably be looking out for an answer where they asked it. (I have ecto and personal mail in different files, so I have to actually look in ecto.) In other words, I play it by ear. (IMO disclaimer) AlexGibbs arg@kilimanjaro.opt-sci.arizona.edu |\| | (~, |-| ~|~ |-| /-\ \/\/ |< "A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." "Have you ever seen a picture of Jesus laughing? Mmm, do \ Why Should I you think He had a beautiful smile? A smile that healed." \ Love You? ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 22 Jan 1994 04:25:34 -0700 From: "Alex Gibbs" Subject: More on ecto replies, weird chars Mitch: > WRT Neil's more arcane point of nettiquette: The cc to ecto is usually done > because the direct reply feature of some mailers, left to itself, would send > the reply only to the poster. It's the list that you really want to send to > anyway; the copy to the poster is epiphenomenal. I'm on a small list where we have a "Reply-To:" field set to the list address. With this field, everyone using unix seems to have no problem just replying and having the replies automatically sent to the list address and nowhere else. This doesn't work for the VMS users though. Wish I had a book that decribed various mail header fields. For fun I've added a "Reply-To: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu" field on this post, but I'm guessing the listserv will strip it off. Also out of curiousity, does anyone have problems with my .sig... AlexGibbs arg@kilimanjaro.opt-sci.arizona.edu |\| | (~, |-| ~|~ |-| /-\ \/\/ |< Anyone unable to read the word above the line:--------------------------------- It uses 7bit non-alpha-numeric chars to spell NIGHTHAWK. It's as long as the line. If some people are losing some of the characters then I'd like to know because it'll just look silly in that case. ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 22 Jan 1994 06:52:54 -0700 From: "Alex Gibbs" Subject: Re: Kate on NPR Vickie: > MJM says: > > > Although I'm sure alot of people heard this too, > > Kate Bush was featured on Morning Edition > > (National Public Radio, US) this (Friday Jan. 21) morning. ... > I heard it too! Funny, a bunch of people were in #ecto and 3 > of us were listening to it at the same time: Alex Gibbs in > Tucson, AZ, Steve Lamb in Sacramento, CA and yours truly in > Chicago. It was Steve's first exposure to Kate too (now he Yes, that was a great experience! :) I'm sure glad ecto is working since I wouldn't have known about it otherwise. I was lucky it was played twice cause the first time I spent the whole time holding the attena myself to try to get as little static as possible. :) I then discovered my cable carries the local affilliate so made a great second tape. > by Andy Lymon(sp?) with quotes from David Stanton (anyone > know who he is? they just said "music reviewer") and bits Actually it was "music writer". The name sounds familiar but maybe I'm imagining things. > of Kate talking. It was an interview done specifically > for NPR, so she must have done it while in New York. (Though > isn't Morning Edition taped in Philadelphia or Washington?) > It's nice to know she did *something* besides the Tower > signing while in America :-) That's for sure! It's the *first* thing I've *FINALLY* heard her say from her visit to North America. Until now she could have just stayed at home for all the effect she had in Tucson, except that tapes are not as far away. That's not to say I'm ungrateful that she made the trip. I'm glad she did but she could have had a much greater impact if she had wanted to. However I imagine the major talk shows probably wouldn't have interviewed her; they would've just wanted her to perform. > Kate's voice is so beautiful! I've always adored her speaking voice. Me too! I just heard Peter Gabriel's "Love Town" from the Philadelphia soundtrack for the first time. :) It was on a station in Phoenix I can't get most of the time. ***Remember I can't see gaffa/love-hounds.*** AlexGibbs arg@kilimanjaro.opt-sci.arizona.edu |\| | (~, |-| ~|~ |-| /-\ \/\/ |< "A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." "Have you ever seen a picture of Jesus laughing? Mmm, do \ Why Should I you think He had a beautiful smile? A smile that healed." \ Love You? ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 22 Jan 1994 13:13:48 -0800 (PST) From: Steve Lamb Subject: Re: Kate on NPR On Fri, 21 Jan 1994, WretchAwry wrote: > Chicago. It was Steve's first exposure to Kate too (now he > hates me, now he has *another* great artist to get into :-)). Well, hate is a strong word. More like I'm going to growl a while until I get the cash together for a Kate CD. :P > They played bits from RG, ASIL, SOS and MOP (everyone got > their abbreviation guide handy...?). The main report was OIC, and if not, SNAFU. :) > This reviewer fella, David Stanton, mentioned Tori Amos and Jane > Siberry as a younger generation of singers who have been influenced > by Kate. Of course...but it's still always nice to hear their Hey now, you forgot to mention how someone on there liked Kate's vocal range. I remember the comment your fingers typed at that one. :) > Kate's voice is so beautiful! I've always adored her speaking voice. Is it that or that accent? I've been out of practice with the British accent it caught me off guard. > I held the tape up, and said "Look! Kate *SPEAKS*!" (ok, so she wasn't > quite as excited as I was :-), but I still have and cherish that tape > Peter. Through the years, it has always been dear to me. Thank you.) I doubt if anyone can get as excited as you do about some artists. My parents still looked at me strange for the 3 days I held my Depeche Mode concert tickets before getting to use them. :) Steve C. Lamb Sysop, Abcb Cafe (916) 363-1424 24/7/356 2400-14.4K v32bis PGP key CRC: 384/6CFEE3 - Insert funny line from KOR here. When I think of one, I'll do the same - ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 22 Jan 1994 13:19:29 -0800 (PST) From: Steve Lamb Subject: Re: ecto #974 On Fri, 21 Jan 1994, Emily Breed wrote: > We can comfort ourselves by remembering that "amateur" means "one who > does something for the love of it." I'm an amateur at this, sure! (Also I alsways took amateur for someone who does something but doesn't get paid for it. Someone can do something for the love of it and get paid. Heh, I used to joke about that in the comic shop I worked at. I'd bag and tape a book for a customer and say, "You know the difference between this book being bagged up by an amateur and a professional? $4.25 an hour." :) Steve C. Lamb Sysop, Abcb Cafe (916) 363-1424 24/7/356 2400-14.4K v32bis PGP key CRC: 384/6CFEE3 - Insert funny line from KOR here. When I think of one, I'll do the same - ======================================================================== From: r.lovejoy1@genie.geis.com Date: Sat, 22 Jan 94 16:53:00 BST Subject: Re: ecto #974 >PLEASE-HELP ME OUT OF THIS AMATEUR MINDLESS FUCKING TEDIOUS UNINFORMED GROUP Terry, if you find a professional mindless fucking tedious uninformed group, let us know! Bob the clueless ======================================================================== From: p.terrell@genie.geis.com Date: Sat, 22 Jan 94 17:56:00 BST Subject: RE: Hidden Messages from God Valerie, VNOZICK@MERLE.ACNS.NWU.EDU, asked: >Has anyone figured out what Tori is saying at 2:26 in 'God'? It sounds >like a biblical quotation (on my crappy system it sounds like 'give my body >strength until...'). I had no religious training to speak of growing up, >so I was deprived of a thorough knowledge of the Old and New Testaments. >(I tried taking a college course, but it was at 9 a.m...zzzz) Don't know if this question has been answered over here yet (I posted about it on RDT a week or two ago), but I believe Tori is saying "give not thy strength to women nor thy ways to that which destroyeth kings". I'm not so good with Bible trivia myself, so I have no idea what chapter and verse it came from, but I do think it fits the context of the song quite well. :-) Jennifer Albert (e-mail: p.terrell@genie.geis.com & air dance@ aol.com) ======================================================================== From: brianb@netcom.com (Brian Bloom) Subject: Re: More on ecto replies, weird chars Date: Sat, 22 Jan 1994 16:05:00 -0800 (PST) Alex, Your Nighthawk sig looked fine at this end, and the reply-to field was intact. (I hit 'R' and got ecto@ns1... for the destination address) To all: Cocteau Twins are shown coming to Dallas, Feb 25th!!! Anyone have a more complete tour schedule for them? Cherrios... br!an -- __ ____ __ ____ __ __ (__==__) /\ \ / \_\ / /\ / \ \ / |\ / /\ (oo) ( moo.) / \_\ / /\ |_| / / /| /\ \ \ / ||/ / / /-------\/ -' / /\ | |\ \/ /_/_ / / / \ \/ \ \ / |/ / / / | U.T.|| / \/ |_| \ __ \_\ /_/ / \ /\ \_\ / /| / / * ||----|| / /\ ./_/ \ \ \/_/_\_\/ \ \ \/_// / | / / ^^ ^^ \ \/ |_| \ \_\ /_/\ \ \_\ /_/ /|_/ / Br!an Bloom \__/_/ \/_/ \_\/ \/_/ \_\/ \_\/ brianb@netcom.com .. but music hides me so well, ..and reveals me.. oh well - HR ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 22 Jan 94 19:39:54 EST From: WretchAwry Subject: Re: A couple questions... Ethan asks: > ...for the group that *knows* female singer-songwriters! Yep, you're in the right place! > First, does anyone know what happened to a Dutch singer by the unlikely name > of Anna Domino? She put out at least three albums/EP's; the two I have are > 1988's _This Time_ and 1989's EP _Colouring in the Edge and the Outline_. Justin and Neil have already posted wonderful answers, so I don't have much to add except that I'm an Anna Domino fan too, though I consider her a maddenly uneven artist. Her good songs are very, *very* good, and the rest tend to be forgettable. I can sing (in my head) songs I love such as "Lake" and "Rythm" and never remember what some of her other songs sound like unless I'm listening to the albums. I have the CDs _Anna Domino_, _This Time_ and _Colouring In the Edge & The Outline_, and another that's sort of a "greatest hits" CD (but I can't remember the name of it and Charley's borrowed it so I can't look at it). Colouring...was distributed in America by Giant Records (P.O.Box 800, Rockville Centre, NY 11571) so maybe it wouldn't be too hard to find the US. I haven't heard what Anna's up to either. Btw, I love her assumed name. I second Justin's recommendation of Mathilde Santing, btw. She has a great voice! The only CD I have is _Breast and Brow_, and I have _Water Under The Bridge_ on LP. One of these days I'll get them all on CD. Neil asked about Virginia Astley, and the most recent thing I know about is from 1989, so it's hardly "recent", but she sang one song on the soundtrack to the film _Lily Was Here_. I never did see the film, but the soundtrack is fantastic! All of the music is written or co-written by Dave "Eurythmics" Stewart (as opposed to Dave "& Barbara Gaskin" Stewart) and features saxist Candy Dulfer and Ann Lennox (really, that's how she's billed) on vocals for a reworking of the song "Here Comes the Rain Again" which I like even better than the original. Virginia co-wrote (with DS) the song "Second Chance" and it's just gorgeous! She toned down her "little girlish" voice (which she used on her album _Hope In A Darkened Heart_ and which I love) but she's unmistakenly Virginia. Apparently the record company that released this (Arista ARCD-8670) thought it would do well, because I saw tons of these CDs for cheap prices in used record stores after its release. I haven't seen any recently, but then again, I haven't looked. You'd never know unless you actually opened it up and looked closely inside the CD booklet that Annie Lennox and Virginia Astley sang on the album. It's worth getting just for those two songs, but I like the rest of it too. > And second, does anyone have any strong opinions (other than those already > posted) about the new Kirsty MacColl album _Titanic Days_? I love just about everything that Kirsty's done, though _Kite_ will always be my favorite album by her. Doug will be posting the tdsFAQ next week, and I'm almost certain that all of these artists were included in my Femme Music Collection. > Ethan > tedious and uninformed, but not fucking at the moment :) :-) Hard to type at the same time.... Vickie ======================================================================== From: heath@iceblink.cs.jhu.edu (Dave Heath) Subject: Victoria Williams on Letterman? Date: 22 Jan 1994 19:47:19 -0500 Can someone tell me how Victoria was on Letterman? I somehow managed to let it slip my mind and now I want to know what I missed :-( -dave ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 22 Jan 94 20:13:22 EST From: WretchAwry Subject: Re: The Bottom Line Mitch (whose posts I *never* skip over) mitches: > As a consolation to those who, like Meredith, have been up against sold-out > dates at the Bottom Line, here is a posting to folk_music that might be of > interest WRT alternative dates to bet the farm on. > Mitch > ========================================================================= > From: bbuck > Subject: The Bottom Line Most of an absolutely amazing list (if I lived in NYC I'd be at this place all the time!) deleted... > Feb 2: In their own words (A bunch of songwriters > sittin' around singing) Hmmm, when this came to Chicago a year(?) ago, Lisa Germano was one of the songwriters, so I wonder if she's still part of it. I didn't go because I wanted to see Lisa by herself, not as the token woman surrounded by a bunch of guys I had no interest in. Now that I think about it, I wish I had gone. > Feb 3: Jan Siberry + Shawn Colvin + Victoria Williams Jane's sister, I presume :-) > Feb 14: Shawn Colvin + Richard Thompson Hey, not fair! Boot Shawn out of Jane & Victoria's show and let those two play longer! Victoria will probably be allowed one or two songs before making way for the "bigger" names. Grrr! Vickie ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 22 Jan 94 21:19:58 EST From: WretchAwry Subject: Re: Victoria and Loreena Doug asks: > Victoria Williams -- Has _Swing the Statue_ been re-released? I got that > impression from here, but digging through the local record stores found > three copies of _Happy Come Home_, but none of _Swing the Statue_. The > big book of in-print albums includes _Happy Come Home_, but not _Swing > the Statue_. If it hasn't been re-released, is their a date for release? I wrote Doug e-mail saying that I hadn't heard anything about this, but I thought I should respond in Ecto too, in case anyone thought I knew but wasn't saying :-). I also told Doug that the Mary Margaret O'Hara song on A Choral Christmas was wrong. Charley came over and heard it for the first time since I received it and said that the song I had written down as "What Is This Fragrance Softly Stealing?" should have been "Never No" and it was written by Mary Margaret. Vickie ======================================================================== Subject: an offer of TRS buttons... Date: Sat, 22 Jan 94 18:22:12 -0800 From: dreaming@nevada.edu greetings everyone! I had tried to post this to gaffa but my postings never appeared and then gaffa just went down... so... here I am. I've about 20 TRS buttons that I'm giving away. if you'd like one... all you need to do is post to me and I'll hold one for you. then you'll need to send a SAST w/ .39 cents worth of postage. that's it! peace! suzanne ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 22 Jan 1994 21:47:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Suspended In Duct Tape Subject: Meryn Cadell Hi! Meryn Cadell's name and music have been mentioned around here lately, so I figured now would be a good time to point out that there is a nifty 1-page article on her in the current issue of _Out_ magazine (the one with the American Gothic spoof of Mr. Universe and his husband on the cover :). To summarize, she was born in New York City and grew up in Waterloo, Ontario, then moved back to NYC in the early 1980s and made somewhat of a name for herself in the performance art scence there. _Angel Food For Thought_ is more spoken-word than music, and _Bombazine_ is more music than spoken word, but both are hilarious, thought-provoking, and imo extremely well done. I would love to see her live sometime. The piece in _Out_ was especially interesting for me because they spent some time in the article discussing her sexual orientation (she's "out and proud" as a bisexual). Usually bis get massive short shrift in the gay publications, and it was refreshing to see. Anyway, Meryn Cadell is a performer worth checking out, especially if you like to laugh while listening to a CD. Meredith meth@delphi.com ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 22 Jan 94 21:53:31 EST From: WretchAwry Subject: Re: Rhodes 2... Charles (I love your comments about Rhodes I!) isn't quite sure about RII: > I would like to know what everyone's opinion of the _Rhodes 2_ album is.. > I just heard it for the first time yesterday, and found that none of the > songs really grabbed me as much as when I first heard _Rhodes 1_. > That's not to say I didn't like it, however. I did like it and I'm looking > forward to hearing it again. But I think it will take me longer to get into > it. Did anyone else have a similar experience with this album? Whenever I have to make a list of Happy albums (most favorite to least) poor RII always seems to come in last. Yet, I love it dearly, so it just goes to show that my "ranking" Happy albums just isn't a good idea. There are more...mmm..."lesser" songs on that album than any of her other albums, but some of her best are on that album too. ("lesser" & best...MHO, of course) No Happy fan should go through life without "Come Here" "Noone Here" "To The Funnyfarm" "The Revelation" "Under And Over The Brink" "Asylum Master" "Where Do I Go" (though the live version is the *BEST*) so you're lucky Charles...you don't have to! :-) The "lesser" songs have lots of good qualities, so it bothers me to even say lesser. Still, I'm just not as enamoured by, say. "The Chase" or "Let Me Know Love" or "Not For Me" as I am the above songs. "Beat It Out" and "Many Nights" are cool for hearing Happy's low, low, looooow voice. The thing is, also keep in mind that when she recorded these songs, she had absolutely no idea that they would someday be gathered together and released as an album, that they would someday be heard by many people, let alone that they would one day be released on CD and listened to as an "album" and be judged. They were songs she'd written and Pat Tessitore let her record them just to get them on tape (and so Happy could learn the equipment & how to do engineering tricks such as echo and overdubs, and she was learing to play the synth at the studio, and she was developing her voice(s). Beat It Out and Many Nights were just vocal exercises.) For all that, I can view the album with a bit more "leeway" than I would other second albums by other artists. I'm always amazed by Happy, but background tidbits help me to be even more amazed :-). I'm sure that you will come to love many of the songs on Rhodes II Charles. Just keep listening... Vickie "my brain's been strained of all reality..." htr This is my favorite: "and when i go, i'll be efficient at making ashtrays..." htr "to the funnyfarm" ======================================================================== From: rhogan@chaph.usc.edu (Ron Hogan) Subject: Re: Meryn Cadell Date: Sat, 22 Jan 1994 19:25:05 -0800 (PST) -> Meryn Cadell's name and music have been mentioned around here lately, so I -> figured now would be a good time to point out that there is a nifty 1-page -> article on her in the current issue of _Out_ magazine (the one with the -> American Gothic spoof of Mr. Universe and his husband on the cover :). Meredith's summary is great, except to say that having moved back to NYC in the early 1980's she now seems to be based out of Toronto. At least, this is the correspondence address listed in both her excellent CDs. Bombazine is an excellent disc... I've heard word that R.A.D! will have a review of it in their next issue, and as soon as it comes out, I will post it here... I'll just say that her lyrics are incisive, witty, and extremely well-crafted. And her Xmas letter '93 was so sweet :) Ron ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 22 Jan 1994 22:30:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Suspended In Duct Tape Subject: cornflake girl Hi! Just got both the regular and limited edition "Cornflake Girl" CD singles yesterday (all together now: Thank You woj! :). It should be against the law for people to be as gorgeous as Tori Amos is on the cover of the limited edition, but I digress. :} I really really like what she's done with "A Case Of You". It's almost unrecognizable from the original-- she's taken it and made it unmistakable into a Tori Song (tm), which I was hoping she would do, since her voice can't quite do Joni Mitchell and it would have been rather bad had she tried. (She does, however, get some of the inflections down perfectly.) And putting the piano through a Marshall amp for the Hendrix song was a stroke of genius. I want to experience that one live, yes! :) The Billie Holiday song will probably have to grow on me... I'll come up with a (whoops) a verdict in a few weeks. Is "Sister Janet" on the album? I also need to listen to the Piano Suite a lot more, but I liked it a lot on first listen. I already know I'm going to be using it behind some Public Service Announcement carts at the radio station! :) "God" is more goddesshead every day. And the other night I listened to "Bells For Her" alone on headphones with the lights off, concentrating on the lyrics and how they're sung. The song will bring tears to your eyes... wow. Just... wow. I need a satellite dish to pick up British TV when Tori is performing! Waah! Meredith meth@delphi.com ======================================================================== From: Aeren Hawkins Subject: Life According to Four Bitchin' Babes Date: Sat, 22 Jan 1994 23:07:54 -0600 (CST) Thanks D^2, Meredith and Neal for telling me a bit more about this show! Based on what you all said, I went tonight and, yes, had a ball. Everything you said was accurate: Christine Lavin introduced the rest of the singers and did "Sensitive New Age Guys" and "What Was I Thinking?" During the encore, she twirled a not-exactly-flaming baton. She's amazing. Yes, that's a request for someone to tell me more about her! Megon McDonough out-sang everyone else. Easily. This hasn't kept me from forgetting the titles of the songs she did, but she does have an incredible voice. Sally Fingerett didn't make as much of an impression on me as the first two, but she still played and sang well, changing from serious songs to wonderfully silly stuff. I see what you all meant about Julie Gold. She does seem likeable enough, but the other three eclipse her so completely... For the encore, the first three played and all four sang "These Boots Are Made For Walking". You'd think it was written for three acoustic guitars. No, I did leap to the stage for "Sensitive New Age Guys". Thank you for asking. :) Aeren ======================================================================== From: freeform@aol.com Date: Sun, 23 Jan 94 00:43:05 EST Subject: happy.. :) Hi.. I am very happily getting into Rhodes 2 now.. I love "Under And Over The Brink" and "Come Here"! At first I was kind of impatient with "Many Nights" since it was just those same 4 lines sung over and over, but now I like it quite a bit. "Beat it Out" sure takes getting used to though, it is quite strange. Anyone care to enlighten me as to what that particular song is about? I am also getting used to Equipoise now.. I think my favorite song from it at this point would be "Closer". This may still be my least loved of Happy's albums though. But I do like it a lot! Does anyone else think that the song "Runners" may be a bit too long and dragged out? I am curious to find out what Happy's next album will be like.. I for one wouldn't mind some "back to basics" acoustic guitar songs.. Oh yes, and a song from Rhodes 1, "The First To Cry" has just become another top favorite of mine... That song is really nice.. This may be none of my business, but I was wondering if Happy made enough money from her music to live comfortably or does she do other kinds of work as well? Catch you all later.. Charles ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 22 Jan 1994 22:44:40 -0800 (PST) From: Steve Lamb Subject: Re: Rhodes 2... On Sat, 22 Jan 1994, WretchAwry wrote: > "The Revelation" > or "Let Me Know Love" or "Not For Me" as I am the above songs. "Beat Odd. You praise "The Revelation" above "Let Me Know Love" whereas I'd do the reverse. I really could do without "The Revelation" but love "Let Me Know Love" and cannot think of a good Happy CD w/o it. Hmmmm, it's that darned IDIC thing again. :) Steve C. Lamb Sysop, Abcb Cafe (916) 363-1424 24/7/356 2400-14.4K v32bis PGP key CRC: 384/6CFEE3 - Insert funny line from KOR here. When I think of one, I'll do the same - ======================================================================== The ecto archives are on hardees.rutgers.edu in ~ftp/pub/hr. There is an INDEX file explaining what is where. Feel free to send me things you'd like to have added. -- jessica (jessica@ns1.rutgers.edu)