Errors-To: ecto-owner@ns1.rutgers.edu Reply-To: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Sender: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu From: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu To: ecto-request@ns1.rutgers.edu Bcc: ecto-digest-outbound@ns1.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto #912 ecto, Number 912 Tuesday, 14 December 1993 Today's Topics: *-----------------* Re: mythology/potholders Kate on CFNY KATE!!! COME BACK!!!!!! Re: Top 10 Re: what is malta? duets Assorted Miscellaneous Ramblings (was Kate, Signings, etc.) Happy should make a video Big Hat Show Re: Dalbello Striking Happy Chords thanks, fandom, etc. yay! The stuff that titles of Humphrey Bogart movies are made of Skipping Work Tales ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1993 15:22:29 +0000 From: S.L.Fagg@bnr.co.uk (Steve Fagg's Mac) Subject: Re: mythology/potholders At 2:51 am 14/12/93 -0500, brni wrote: >>I'd just like to add that I do feel that Gene Rodenberry (sp?) and Tolkien >>were two of the most successful creators of mythology for modern (western) >>mankind. It seems to me that myth-making is a natural human activity that > >this is the primary place where something sat wrong. i don't think >that there are very many people who think that star trek and lord >of the rings is *actually true*. i suppose there are some who do. >they tend to be rare, tho. > >a thing of primary importance to myth is that it be, at some point, >be considered true. when the ancient greeks talked of athena popping >out of zeus' head, this was not a cute metaphorical story; this was >truth. On this last point we can do no more than agree to disagree. I do not subscribe to the notion that the ancient Greeks were not sufficiently sophisticated to understand the power of metaphor. My experience of Greek drama in particular indicates that they enjoyed a highly developed understanding of figurative language including symbols, allegories, and metaphor. The suggestion that the buildiers of the Parthenon were a primitive race who could not distinguish between their actual daily experience and the stories in their legends just won't wash. IMO. This is not to say that I disagree that myths must be considered to be true to qualify. I think this is an essential part of what makes a mythology work. It must convey the essential truth that explains existance and experience. As I believe I wrote in my original post: contrary to one common (mis)use of the word, a myth is not something which isn't true, it's something that is *ALWAYS* true. >tolkien and roddenberry are storytellers, not mythmakers. tolkien >especially told stories of mythic proportion and style, but that >does not make them myths (unless people start believing in hobbits). This is at best a debatable point. You may argue that Tolkien failed in his attempt to create a mythology for twentieth century England, you may argue that he was mistaken in his belief that this was something which could be attempted (perhaps because he did not properly understand what a muthology was). But there can be little doubt that Tolkien himself believed that the creation of a mythology was exactly what his non-accademic writings were all about. This is well documented in his letters. The edition edited by Humphrey Carpenter contains many instances (I don't have the book at work with me today, but can provide references tomorrow, if you're interested). "The Hobbit" and "The Lord of the Rings" are quite atypical of Tolkien's mythological writings, and only tangentially related to them. Almost none of this was published in Tolkien's lifetime because he was constantly revising it. Fairly soon after Tolkien's death his son Christopher prepared an edition of "The Silmarillion" which is a good place to start, but for the real enthusiast the essential work is Christopher Tolkien's "The History of Middle Earth" which in its nine volumes (so far) presents the develoment of Tolkien's mythology from the first "Book of Lost Tales" written while invalided out of the Great War up to his father's death. These volumes contain the writings themselves complete with variant texts, layers of accretions, and re-writings, together with a carefully researched account of the circumstances attending the writings and their interelationships (which are exceedingly complex). For the general reader these volumes can be quite hard going at times, but they leave no doubt that for all of his adult life Tolkien was deeply engaged in the creation of an entire mythology which he believed could serve his time in the way that Norse and Greek myths had served theirs. I know far less about Roddenberry (I'm not even sure how to spell the guy's name :-)) (I'm sure, however, that there are plenty of people on this list who can provide supporting or countering details) but from interviews I've seen on a number of "Making of Star Trek" television programmes I get a distinct sense that, to Gene, Star Trek was of far more significance than just a space opera. There are Star Trek fans (and you may say they represent the lunatic fringe, I couldn't possibly comment) who strongly believe that Star Trek represents a mythology for the 20th century leading into the 21st. I may be reading something into your post which was not (meant to be) there, if so I appologise, but I get a sense that you are sugesting that truth and fiction is a simple black and white duality and that any narrative can be confidently assigned to exactly one of these categories. Because they deal with questions of "why?" rather than "what?" or "how?", I would claim that myths are not susceptible to this treatment. They are not "true" in the way that we might say that we believe we can show Einstein's theories of relativity to be true, by making scientific observations and comparing them with the predictions of the theory. They are true in the deeper and more significant sense that they provide a way of looking at the world which is tractable to our minds and allows us to ask and answer questions which are otherwise ineffible. >um. i hope y'all don't take any of this as a flame... >its just an honest disagreement. :) ditto. -- Regards Steve Fagg ( S.L.Fagg@bnr.co.uk +44-279-402437 ) BNR Europe Ltd., London Road, Harlow, Essex, CM17 9NA, UK *** "Better drowned than duffers. If not duffers, won't drown". *** ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1993 10:54:05 -0500 (EST) From: "she listens like her head's on fire.." Subject: Kate on CFNY Hello, (lurking mode off) I'm in the middle of last week of school hell but I decided to come out of my self-imposed exile for a moment. I'm one of the fortunate ones who receive CFNY from Toronto. On Monday night at 11 they had Kate Bush in the studio and talked to her for a while. I'm sorry to say I fell asleep near the end of the interview but I must say that she has a really sweet voice and it made me homesick. Someone called and mentioned rec.music.gaffa. :-) -Quenby ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 14 Dec 93 11:24:11 EST From: mojzes@monet.vill.edu (brni) Subject: KATE!!! COME BACK!!!!!! > >Tippi wrote (in gaffa): > >> Seizing my chance, I asked about the live interview on Monday night. >> The show can be heard on all radio stations in North America that carry >> the syndicated radio show Modern Rock Live (from WDRE). The host of >> that show will have a direct connection with Kate at CFNY, who will >> be taking calls from fans at 1-800-461-1021, or (416)-870-EDGE. >> CFNY is also carried on the "Anak E2" satellite for those with dishes. >> The show starts at 11:00 p.m. Eastern and runs for an hour. > >We just found out that the Chicago radio station Q101 (fm) will be >carrying this program. They definitely mentioned Kate Bush and said >it will start at 10:00pm Monday night. They gave a different phone >number than the ones Tippi mentioned. 1-800-223-ROCK is what the >DJ on Q101 announced. > >Alright! > >Vickie > >ps, She *IS*, of course she *IS*. She *REALLY* *IS*! > AAAAARRRRGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!! get 1/2 a week behind on ecto and see what happens?? did anyone tape this show? brni ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 14 Dec 93 08:16:27 PST From: dixon@physics.berkeley.edu (David Dixon) Subject: Re: Top 10 > Still, I was very pleased with myself, sending a zinger to my former > cross-town rival. You see, in my younger days Waukesha was always > beating up on my poor home town high school sports team. Ha! Serves ya right, living in the posh comforts of 'Tosa. Actually, I was never in sports in high school, so you can't blame me. I did go to Tosa East for a math tournament once, though. :) D^2 (perverse smiley, and darn proud of it!) ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 14 Dec 93 08:25:34 PST From: dixon@physics.berkeley.edu (David Dixon) Subject: Re: what is malta? > -> You found *both* daily doubles? > -> You're full of luck, you are! > > well, my luck's no better than anyone else's: > i choked on the second one. on 21 March, there > will be great footage of me holding my hands up, > shrugging, and alex asking me to come up with a > name, any name. Did better than I did, at least. I found all *three* daily doubles, and only got one right. At least that's what I remember; a lot of the game is a fuzzy haze. I also missed the Final Jeopardy; in fact, no one got it right. Some consolation, but it still sucks to lose. D^2 ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 14 Dec 93 11:41:12 EST From: mojzes@monet.vill.edu (brni) Subject: duets hi y'all, bob the lovejoy-man writes: > >Hi folks, > The news from Mt. Zion hospital continues to be encouraging. It looks >like my mom is out of the woods. Whew! yea! send her *HUGS* from me! > In more ecto-related news, WXPN played Mae Moore yesterday and I was >impressed quite favorably. However, I got to thinking that I'd love to hear >a duet with her and MC 900 ft. Jesus. Somehow I think that would be a neat >pairing. Then I got to thinking, I wonder what Duets would be popular >amongst ectophiles? There's already swoons over kd lang and Jane Siberry. >Can y'all think of some other fantasy duets? How about Happy and Kate >singing together? We can at least dream about it! Well, just thought I'd >run it up the flagpole and see if anyone salutes! > happy and kate could be nice. kate and geddy lee ;) i'd be interested in hearing a robert fripp/legendary pink dots session. well, ok, i realize that fripp doesn't *sing*, really... how about... Adam Ant and Diamanda Galas!!!! or even just dg doing a cover of "desperate, but not serious"... ah, i think i should get some breakfast, so's i can stop being silly. well, c ya all later brni ======================================================================== Subject: Assorted Miscellaneous Ramblings (was Kate, Signings, etc.) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1993 10:40:13 -0800 (PST) > It just strikes me that the celbrity/fan relationship is a strange > and fragile one (Yeah, I know, she's on the way up, and, at least for now, > appreciates her fans.....but, I have to wonder if I will (uh, I mean, > WOULD) want to be "bothered" by strangers (even gentle, nice ones) > approaching me and saying, "Oh, I LOVED your video (or movie, or novel, or > dissenting opinion...)" Not that I would consider the person a pest, but I > wouldn't know how to act, and I wouldn't want to appear stand-offish, but > probably would, anyway, since I'd be shy (or worse, falsely ebullient). > > A new thread???? hmmm... Perhaps a new thread. :) I was in a bookshop on West Broadway here in Vancouver yesterday and as I was queueing up to ask a question of the clerk I noticed that the gentleman in front of me, clutching a pair of rather christmas presenty looking coffee table books, was John Mann. John who? I expect many people are saying. Well, Holly and Neile probably recognize the name... he's a founder of (and usual lead vocalist for) Spirit of the West. He may not be up there in the firmament, singing the music of the spheres and rubbing elbows with Kate Bush or Peter Gabriel, but Spirit of the West are reasonably well-known in Canada, and are a *darn* good band to boot. (for those who are wondering, I don't think I'd consider 'em ectofodder. They used to be a kind of Celtic folk-rock band, but have moved away from the folkier stuff on their past few albums) I think it's the third time I've seen Mann before, but I didn't feel comfortable barging up and asking him anything. In the past I've seen him after concerts, but here he was buying presents for his fambly or whatever and I just felt that he's on his own time and shouldn't be hassled be people, even if they *do* listen to his voice on an embarrassingly frequent basis through the auspices of compact disc technology. (speaking of voices, I always think it's interesting how incredibly soft and gentle his voice is. He's looking pretty rough these days with very short hair and double-pierced ears, and when he sings he comes across quite aggressively, but his speaking voice is quite soft) So I didn't embarrass myself or annoy him by saying hello to him. But it *is* sort of strange, seeing a semi-public figure like that. I feel sort of self-conscious - this isn't a mere anonymous stranger here. And by listening to their music they're part of my life without them really knowing it! SotW was the first music to play in my post-apartment fire. I've been allowed to move back in, and then frantically had to find a new housemate as my previous housemate decided to move out. It's kind of a drag finding a housemate with less than a month's notice, particularly close to holiday time and particularly when the building you're showing is partly burnt down! Anyway, I came home and they'd restored power to the place and my CD player was on and I'd left a disc inside it, so I pressed the play button and the first song to emerge was "Scour the House" by Spirit of the West. I thought this was very apropos. :) Anyway, life is gradually returning to normal around 1549 Kitchener Street now. Thanks for everyone's kind words and kind thoughts! Luckily I came out relatively scot-free. I had to spend some $250 on getting my computer and CD player cleaned of smoke, and some rotten soul nicked my spare car battery from the garage, but otherwise I've suffered no real damage at all! Just the emotional frustration of not having a working telephone line and computer with which to keep in touch! I also have this ugly plywood board outside my door, which the fire restoration people have put up in accordance with some bylaw or other. Supposedly it's to prevent people from going into parts of the building they're not supposed to. But darn! is it ugly! So I bought some tacky green tinsel and made a tree on it with tinsel and aluminium foil and tried to encourage everyone else on the floor to add decorations. Guerilla decorating. I'd better shut up now. I must be experiencing the kind of verbal diarrhoea experienced by people who've been isolated from other members of humanity too long. :) Emailorrhoea. But before I finish, I think I'm going to mention that beloved fellow Ectophile Holly (Holly@umbc2.umbc.edu) has been mercilessly hit by a particularly virulent strain of flu and is not happy. :( I think she needs hugs and blue warm fuzzy thoughts! - Neil -- 49N 16' 123W 7' / Vancouver, BC, Canada / neil_k_guy@sfu.ca ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1993 13:45:29 EST5EDT Subject: Happy should make a video I know Vickie has mentioned in the past that Happy has not made any videos, but I wonder if there are any current plans to make one. After watching my tape of 120 Minutes last night, I am more convinced than ever that Happy needs a video. It would most definitely be played, and she could arrange an in-studio performance (they usually have two per show). I'd think that, given her lack of a huge recording studio debt, added with all those CD sales, Happy and Aural Gratification must have a couple of hundred bucks saved up. :-) I think it's an investment that would pay off. I mean, I live in a college town, but there is no real college radio. The only place (other than the Internet) that I hear and hear about interesting new and not so new recording artists is on 120 Minutes. It's where I discovered Robyn Hitchcock and Jane Siberry (well, MTV, not necessarily 120 Minutes). If I had seen and heard Happy on MTV, I would have been an instant fan years ago. So, Vickie, give us the scoop: what's it gonna take to get Happy on video? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Greg O'Rear E-mail: orear@ise.ufl.edu Industrial and Systems Engineering Department Phone: (904) 392-3389 University of Florida, Gainesville, Florida FAX: (904) 392-3537 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1993 14:12:34 -0500 From: jim@medinah.atc.ucarb.com Subject: Big Hat Show I saw Big Hat for the first time this last weekend. I enjoyed their music greatly and ended up buying two of their CD's. They have a wonderfully rich multilayer sound with electric violin and horns creating most of the power. They created a nice visual present with candles scattered around the stage. I also like the way they displayed the song titles on a light board. I thank the people here who have recomended them. ( I would have probably passed them up for another band playing on the same night). They were definitely worth seeing. jimfred jim@medinah.atc.ucarb.com ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1993 11:21:25 -0800 (PST) From: Ectophiles Guide Subject: Re: Dalbello Hi, Michael-- > > Definitely a Dalbello fan here. My favourite of hers is _Whoman > > Foursays_, though I like _She_ a lot, too. > > I don't have that one. I'll have to look for it the next time > I'm in Canada. I thought I should give you fair warning--it's out of print and fairly hard to find. I managed to find one for a desperate friend in a used disc store in Victoria, B.C. but haven't seen it since and I've been hoping to find a copy for Michael Peskura. The guy who manages a local used disc store grabbed one that came in last week, so at least it does still occasionally surface. > > What songs does Heart do? Didn't they already have a Dalbello cover on a > > previous album? > > Yes, they did a terrific cover of _Wait for an answer_ on their album > a couple of years ago. The first single off their latest album is > _Back on black II_ (from She - although I'm not sure why the "II" > & the Wilson sisters get co-writing credits. Maybe they added > a verse or something) and I think I noticed another song, which > had a title I didn't recognize, that was also written by Dalbello, > and the Wilsons. Haven't heard the recordings yet, although I did > catch Heart on David Letterman a couple of weeks ago and they > did Back on Black II. It sounded great. Ann has the vocals for > it. I'd like to hear these, but I don't actually like Heart enough to buy the album. I like Ann Wilson's voice, but mostly Heart is too mainstream for my delicate tastes. Maybe I'll trip over the disc used sometime. I wonder if Dalbello does any backing vox? --Neile neile@u.washington.edu ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1993 14:58:32 -0500 (EST) From: Chris Sampson Subject: Striking Happy Chords Hey, yeah, Kim Plowright (soon to be un-Emailable :( ) Hit upon an idea that I just realize I've had for a long time...I think I mentioned something about it 2+ years ago, but, here it goes again... Does anybody know the chords to some of the HR songs???? I usual only OKAY about hearing stuff out...I've got about 75% of In Hiding (piano), and about 97% of Project 499 (guitar), but I've been intimidated in trying to get anything more complex out.... Might I suggest a simple language? A / AM, Am, A7, AM7, Am7 etc....are pretty self explanatory, (also, dim/aug...or + / -) Whatever..... Flats....hmmmmm..... howbout maybe a lower case b Sharps....duh....# If you're a guitarist, may I suggest the following convention? Adim7 {inversion} Fret.... Finally, if there's a particularly wonderful picking pattern, then, do what you can to translate it.....a1, A1, (there's some convention about the keys above/below middle C, and the register in that direction.....something LIKE middle C = C1, while the F above it is F1, and the F below it is f1) Alternatively, I suppose you could write the whole thing out in TAB, and scan it for the FTP archives ..... :) Help me, but consider doing so on email, as I'm sure that some here will consider it a waste of bandwidth..... Chris Sampson chris@neuron.uchc.edu ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1993 14:11:27 -0600 From: lakrahn@inst.augie.edu (...Laurel...) Subject: thanks, fandom, etc. First off.... THANK YOU all for the warm welcome. The ecto postings continue to be a joy to read. And the personal mail was definitely appreciated (for awhile I wasn't sure if my message had gone out, as the digests take awhile to come out sometimes... :) I think I'll be getting off the digest list after xmas....). I've been hunting for The Beautiful South's album CHOKE for awhile ow. now. Kicking myself for not buying it wwhen I had the chance... I do have the "My Book" single, though.... :) Someone just postedd about not having the nerve to say "hi" to Happy at WOMAD..... It sounds like the start of another thread like the recent one on rdt and also on murmur... when one talks about fan courtesy..... fanmail, what is/isn't acceptable beehavior, etc. Whether artists appreciate fan mail, blah blah blah. Once again, from my experience, I think it's best to be courteous andd helpful, keeping in mind that celebs are human. I'm often too shy to say anything to celebs I meet. Oftentimes, others don't see them as celebrities, butI do (being a fan of theirs. I use the term "celeb" for lack of a better one...:)).... I've found, it's best to say "hi" and then judge whether or not any further comment is warranted or welcome. If they're busy, respect that. Meet folks at signings and such things where it is expected. it's harder when you run into celebs at concerts an such things. A simple comment on the concert can break th ice... or a "hi, i enjoy your work".... But the key is to not* demand or expeect anything. It's better to be shy and considerate than pushy.... I gueess I'm fortunate in that the celebs i see are generally peole i run into with great frequency due to proximity and common interests -- eventually they get to recognize me and eventually I usually end up having longer exchanges withthem than "hi"... (this has been the case from running into members of Boiled in Lead and Cats Laughing to castmembers of MysteryScience Theatre 3000 to authors Emma Bull, John M. Ford, Steve Brust, etc.... Of course things in the american midwest are a little different..... :)) (just trying to point out this seeems to be a common thread among musicians, comedians, and authors.... both well known and not...) respect is the key. as is common sense. courtesy. consideration. anyhow.... i've babbled on this topic too much recently.... :) - Laurel Krahn - lakrahn@inst.augie.edu - augustana College-sioux falls, SD - "if you need me, me & neil'll be hangin' out with the DREAM KING neil says hi by the way..." - Tori Amos ======================================================================== Subject: yay! Date: Tue, 14 Dec 93 17:16:33 -0500 From: jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu A propos of recent threads, it's worth noting that Judge Bayless has declared Colorado's Amendment 2 (you know, the heinous bit of legislation that banned anti-discrimination legislation for gays/lesbians/bisexuals) to be unconstitutional. This is happy-making. (yes, the state will be appealing the decision, but this is still a good sign) Jeff |Jeffrey C. Burka | "Everything is still with a fear of never coming out | |Suffering Bad Grammar| Never following through / Never ever finishing | |jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu | What we wanted to do." -- Melissa Ferrick | ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1993 16:00:30 CST From: Subject: The stuff that titles of Humphrey Bogart movies are made of >"Alex, what is Malta?" Ironically, the last time I was in Washington (for the 1990 American Sociologic al meetings), the Maltese embassy was on the path between my hotel and the Hilt on. I didn't notice a single falcon in the vicinity :-). Neal's joke about the guide dog is Kafkaesquely reminiscent of some newspaper articles I've read recently about the Illinois Department of Children and Fam- ily Services, whose ideological devotion to keeping families intact has led to some notable placements of little kids back in the homes of their abusive paren ts. We pick up Meredith's saga somewhere in the middle: >{Katefans are a generally calm and demuere lot- not all of them are >.gaffans! :} Interestingly, on her radio gig last night, the final question was whether she' d heard of rec.music.gaffa on the Internet. She said she knew there was _a_ network, but she wasn't sure if it was that one. Guess what she doesn't know won't hurt her :-). > [...] She was wearing the leather jacket she has on in the US RBG >video (whats a veggie doing wearing leather, anyway ;), and looked great. Not all vegetarians are vegans. It's the latter who are the hardliners on leather, etc. (It just occurred to me: how do vegans who are into bondage handle the situation?) Mojzes suppojzes (errojneously :-), IMHO WIVH): >a thing of primary importance to myth is that it be, at some point, >be considered true. when the ancient greeks talked of athena popping >out of zeus' head, this was not a cute metaphorical story; this was >truth. when i was a kid, and we heard that mikie had died from drinking >coke and eating lots of pop rocks, that was truth, not just a cute >story. *that* is a modern myth, along with a whole slew of other >things (which i won't go into, since some people might be offended, >and i don't wish to do that here). we BELIEVED that mikie was dead, >and died because his stomach exploded from carbonation. the ancient Somehow, I have a hard time picturing modern-day Urban Legend having the same centrality in our culture that classical mythology had in Greco-Roman civiliza- tion. The myths of the ancient world had a quasi-religious function, serving as shedders of light (supposedly) on the so-called ultimate questions. The new crop of recurrent rumors don't quite cut it in that department. Vickie laments: >I feel an Alaska coming on... Rest assured, all, that she has the dub I made for her of the _Northern Exposure_ soundtrack album, for use in such situations. Chris writes: > [...] I was unaware Kate's a vegetarian; though I am >aware that she's beautiful (even if she is an endo morph : crossfile under I always took her for more of a mesomorph. Brni writes about not seeing Kate on the radio: >did anyone tape this show? Yeah. Me. Thus far, I've given the tape one cursory listen; I tried to make mental notes of what seemed like highlights, but they all escape me in the heat of the moment. Perhaps they'll come back to me sooner or later. The thread about possible duet partners for her reminded me that she did say that she's like to work with Peter Gabriel again. Someone who called in asked if she got her start in a garage band. That's all I remember clearly for now. With continued get-well wishes to Holly, Vickie and Mrs. Lovejoy. Mitch ======================================================================== From: neilg@sfu.ca Subject: Re: The stuff that titles of Humphrey Bogart movies are made of Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1993 15:34:14 -0800 (PST) Mitch remarks: > > [...] She was wearing the leather jacket she has on in the US RBG > >video (whats a veggie doing wearing leather, anyway ;), and looked great. > > Not all vegetarians are vegans. It's the latter who are the hardliners on > leather, etc. (It just occurred to me: how do vegans who are into bondage > handle the situation?) Really? I don't know if there's *necessarily* a connection. I mean, there often is, but it really depends on the individual. The whole veggie issue can be broken down into so many groups - vegetarians who don't eat meat, people who eat fish but call themselves vegetarians even though they aren't, ovo-lacto vegetarians who eat eggs and milk products but won't eat flesh of animals, vegans who eat only vegetable matter and won't touch eggs or milk or other animal products, fruitarians who only eat fruit that can be eaten without harming the plant (as opposed to, say, carrots; the consumption of which kills the carrot plant), and macrobiotic folk who follow macrobiotic dietary rules based on the yin-yang principle, organic eaters who may or may not eat animal products but only eat organically produced food that hasn't been exposed to pesticides or herbicides of a non-natural origin, Hindus who won't eat beef and often won't wear leather products for religious and not strictly dietary reasons, Jews who don't eat pork and other foods that are not considered kosher, Muslims who won't eat pork either, etc. etc... So Kate's wearing of leather may or may not be inconsistent with her dietary habits, depending on why she became a vegetarian and what kind of vegetarian she considers herself to be. On the side, frankly it always irritates me when some non-vegetarians make a fuss over leather and gloatingly point out leather items as if they've detected some incredible moral hypocrisy. Not everyone refuses to eat meat for the same reasons - the killing of animals may or may not come directly into the picture. (ps: I'm not trying to slag whoever (Meredith?) posted the remark about Kate's jacket 'cos she wasn't sounding vindictive or judgemental to me. It's the latter kind of remarks that get my proverbial goat.) Nevertheless, there are some hypocritical ironies at times, in my opinion. Like people opposed to fur who wear leather. They are often on inconsistently shaky ground, it seems to me. Particularly if they bring the "fur is a luxury good" argument into the fray and ignore the issue of furs and aboriginal peoples. But that's another story... :) People can be so irrationally passionate about things like food, eh? I mean, people can happily eat portions of pig carcass without a thought, and make all sorts of histrionic pronouncements about eating the flesh of, say, a cat or a dog. Or insects. Or they'll eat a prawn but gag at the idea of eating the biologically not so distant tarantula, etc. ObHappy: Hopefully I'll have my stereo cleaned out of apartment fire smoke nastiness tonight so I can listen to the new Rhodes CD that Holly mailed me! :) - Neil K. -- 49N 16' 123W 7' / Vancouver, BC, Canada / neil_k_guy@sfu.ca> ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 14 Dec 93 15:41:15 PST From: erik@falcon.kla.com (Erik Johnson) Subject: Re: yay! Jeff announces: |> A propos of recent threads, it's worth noting that Judge Bayless has |> declared Colorado's Amendment 2 (you know, the heinous bit of legislation |> that banned anti-discrimination legislation for gays/lesbians/bisexuals) to |> be unconstitutional. |> |> This is happy-making. |> |> (yes, the state will be appealing the decision, but this is still a good |> sign) Bravissimo! Three cheers for Judge Bayless! Another blow struck for the right of people to be themselves. Erik "I may be straight, but I'm not narrow" ____________________________________________________________________________ Erik N. Johnson Don't believe any return address KLA Instruments Corp. rumors. The one and only True San Jose, CA Address is e_johnso@kla.com. My goliard mind pauses, seized by story. Words weave stronger than rope. ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1993 10:18:14 -0800 From: jmg@rocket.com (Jim Gurley) Subject: Skipping Work Tales Reading Meredith's saga of skipping work to see Kate reminded me of my own sorry tale in that vein. I remember doing a similar crazy thing back in 1979. I was working as a library assistant in university and a friend and I stayed up all night at the Greensboro Coliseum parking lot just to wait in line to get tickets to see The Who. This was a couple weeks after Cincinnati, and my parents weren't to keen on me seeing the Who.... I remember having to call in sick from a payphone near the coliseum parking lot. The place was so noisy and crowded that I had to cover my head et al with a large blanket while I moaned to my boss that I was sick and didn't think I'd be coming in to work that day (see I was the stiff who had to pick up and deliver all the mail through the library)...Anyway, I felt sort of guilty about being perfectly healthy, albiet a little tired and a wee bit wired that morning, just to pick up tickets for a rock show.... Funny thing was I also remember being rather disappointed when I actually got to hear them play a month or so later. Anybody else got a skipped work tale? Another thread perhaps? Jim ======================================================================== The ecto archives are on hardees.rutgers.edu in ~ftp/pub/hr. There is an INDEX file explaining what is where. Feel free to send me things you'd like to have added. -- jessica (jessica@ns1.rutgers.edu)