Errors-To: ecto-owner@ns1.rutgers.edu Reply-To: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Sender: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu From: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu To: ecto-request@ns1.rutgers.edu Bcc: ecto-digest-outbound@ns1.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto #899 ecto, Number 899 Friday, 10 December 1993 Today's Topics: *-----------------* One Dove, The Spinanes, KT on Space Shuttle Intro me due to b-day, NJ, Europe talk Re: Festival of Lights Re: HST servicing mission and Happy Cards... Re: Image and Music Re: ecto #896 Re: Image & music (was Bjork :-() Is it just me... Re: Festival of Lights story liz bar graphs A Happy Sampler ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1993 02:28:32 -0700 From: "Alex Gibbs" Subject: One Dove, The Spinanes, KT on Space Shuttle Robert, Well wishes to your mom and to you too. > This morning WXPN played a wonderful song by a Scottish group called > One Dove. The album was called Morning Dove White and the song was, I > think, "White Dove". It had a little dance feel to it, a lot of bubbly > I also heard "Rubberband Girl" for the first time today. "White Dove" > is better IMVHO. Has anyone else heard of this group? (I'm not as hip as > I'd like to be!) Oddly enough, they had a video on Sunday's 120 Minutes! I wrote their name down because I liked the song. I wrote song "One Dove" by Morning Dove White but I'm not sure of what's what. Later they played a song called "Monos" (?) by the Spinanes which I liked even more... unfortunately I can't remember what either one was like at all now... all I have is their names written down and the memory that I liked them both. I never heard of either before. Others? I'm catching up in gaffa again so forgive me if they were mentioned before. I didn't happen to tape it unfortuantely since I was taping the Hubble Space Shuttle mission instead. As I mentioned on gaffa, one of the astronauts working on the telescope is nick-named KT. I suggested that she was perhaps turning the telescope inside-out as in KT's song. :) Well, my gaffa post was more interesting... I'm tired now. The astronauts name is Kathy Thorton; they call her KT in transmissions. --- AlexGibbs arg@kilimanjaro.opt-sci.arizona.edu |\| | (~, |-| ~|~ |-| /-\ \/\/ |< "A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." "Have you ever seen a picture of Jesus laughing? Mmm, do \ Why Should I you think He had a beautiful smile? A smile that healed." \ Love You? ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1993 03:07:01 -0700 From: "Alex Gibbs" Subject: Intro me due to b-day, NJ, Europe talk Well, I've made several posts over the last few months so I might as well do the usual introduction thing. If anyone really kept track they would actually know quite a lot about me from my posts. > 1963 * * * * > 1964 * * * * * * * * * * * > 1965 * * * * * * * > 1966 * * * * * * * * * * * * * > 1967 * * * * > 1968 * * * * * * * > 1969 * * * * * * * * * * * > 1970 * * * * * * * * * * * > 1971 * * * * * * * > 1972 * * Add me to 1967, June 8. Maybe this will help it look more like a bell curve. Looks like I'm close to the peak in the histogram. Don't know what day I was born on. Sign? Hmmm, just put me down as Betelgeuse. Not just a constellation but a star. It was my first modem nickname and I still use it but have used Nighthawk since 85 and am thinking of getting a new one. I'm really a Gemini and my shoe size is Birkenstocks. ;) I was born in Summit, NJ and grew up in Warren, NJ. Some of you out there seem to be fairly close to this place. Family spent one year in Eindhoven, NL (Holland) and travelled around Europe, including the then USSR as I mentioned recently I think. Moved to Tucson, AZ in 79 or 80 and found Kate in 85. The Whole Story was my first or second CD and soon I had them all. Went to the University of Arizona here. Graduated with BA in engineering physics and went to LA to work for JPL (NASA) doing optics and programming. This will lead to my next post. But anyway, I then went to San Fran and did programming and found HR and this list in 1991 when Warpaint was out on CD. Unfortuantely I didn't stick on the list then because I moved back to Tucson almost right after to go to grad school. So now I'm in Tucson. Previously I had written about experiences since returning to Tucson so I'll stop here, not to mention I'm tired, which I already mentioned in my last post, but had to say it again. /chuckle --- AlexGibbs arg@kilimanjaro.opt-sci.arizona.edu |\| | (~, |-| ~|~ |-| /-\ \/\/ |< "A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." "Have you ever seen a picture of Jesus laughing? Mmm, do \ Why Should I you think He had a beautiful smile? A smile that healed." \ Love You? ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1993 05:07:51 -0700 From: "Alex Gibbs" Subject: Re: Festival of Lights Vickie: > get a headache just so I can try some. Aspirin, Caffine, and Codene, in > case anyone's wondering. It's an over-the-counter (more precisely, a Whoaw! I'll pass thanks. I got addicted to codeine as a kid and that threw me for a loop. Plus aspirin and caffeine are known to temporarily aggravate my ear problem. > available *only* with a doctor's prescription in the USA. Chris expressed > much appreciation at the way people are treated as intelligent beings in > Canada. Charley too, especially when he found an antihistamine called > "Seldane"(sp?) which is very expensive *and* available by prescription > only in the US. He said it was a wonder drug for him, in that it clears > up his sinuses and doesn't make him drowsy or druggy. I would really appreciate being treated that way too, as Chris expressed. Yes, I use Seldane for allergies occasionally. In my case it doesn't keep me awake like Sudafed and others (I'm backwards with regard to the norm on these). > We talked a long time about the probability of there being more victims > scattered around. From some things she told me, there very likely are, > at least in the family, his family. > > What if I had told? What if I had called the police? What if I had > told my parents and they had called the police? What if I could > have protected future victims from his sickness? His daughter, if > no one else? It was my fault, I could have protected her. She was > victimized because I didn't say anything. He got away with what he Well, you said the obvious thing, which is that it's not your fault. But definitely add that she was *not* victimized because you didn't say anything (you're silence was not the cause). Everything that happens has many events prior to it. But somewhere you've got to draw the line on identifying causes... otherwise everything is just the fault of the universe being created. Where do you draw the line? An example from my life: Someone on the net I was friends with became obsessed with me and is/was an extreme co-dependent. I never led her on at all, specifying I just wanted a friend. Yet it eventually came down to her saying she wanted to move to Tucson because she had nothing else or she'd kill herself. I never gave in to her wanting to move here because it would have destroyed both of us. My life was already on the edge. I couldn't handle a relationship, especially a bad one. I tried to help her as best I could but she just got more obsessed because of my help, making things worse. She then tried to kill herself twice (she didn't succeed). Whose fault was it? Maybe hers, maybe not, but certainly not mine. It wasn't the first or last time she tried to kill herself (the others being before and after dealing with me) and I wasn't the first or last guy she obsessed on either. So whose fault was it that she tried to kill herself? Sure, if I had said I wanted her here it would have prevented the suicide attempt that day but then what? I would have been lying. The reason it's not my fault is that my saying no to her was not the *essential* and *always present* ingredient that determined wether or not she wanted to kill herself. I could have been any guy, and in fact I was one of many. My saying no wasn't the problem... she had never met me and I never told her I wanted a relationship. Something else was wrong with her and her life that made her want to kill herself. It was not my fault. I wasn't the *essential* ingredient and I certainly was not *always present*, since she tried it before knowing me and after she was over me. I've gone through some bad things the last couple years and I've spent, and still do sometimes, a lot of time with "what ifs". My situation isn't totally analogous in that my what ifs are concerning what if I hadn't done ____, would I have avoided ____. Or if I had only ___ then I wouldn't be ____. But that gets you nowhere, which is where I went. I hope you avoid dwelling on "what ifs"... I know it's hard...believe me I know. About the best you can get out of them is learning, and often not even that, and once you've got that then it's time to drop them. Life is incredibly complex and no matter how hard you think about it you will never know what the results of your what ifs would have been. Even right now, this instant, no one knows what their decisions will lead to... even the simplest of decisions. It's just how it is. This may be partly why I returned to religion. But that's a story many people don't want to hear. I'm sure I could say much much more about what you wrote but I don't have the time now and I hope I haven't said the wrong things already. This isn't an area I have direct experience with. I just hope that in sharing some of my experiences you might benefit. I have anger pent up in me too (not about the net-person though), and I'm not sure where to vent it either... but talking seems to help get it out. > "I'm digging in the dirt, to find the places I got hurt" PG Yeah...boy that hit home when I first head it, and still does. --- AlexGibbs arg@kilimanjaro.opt-sci.arizona.edu |\| | (~, |-| ~|~ |-| /-\ \/\/ |< "A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." "Have you ever seen a picture of Jesus laughing? Mmm, do \ Why Should I you think He had a beautiful smile? A smile that healed." \ Love You? ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1993 05:15:20 -0700 From: "Alex Gibbs" Subject: Re: HST servicing mission and Happy Cards... Okay, this is the post one of my other posts said was leading to. It probably should have just been private mail though. Sorry in advance. John: > Well, as I'm sure most of you have seen (at least the U.S. crowd), the > Hubble Servicing mission is going along great! There's not a lot for us here > at the Space Telescope Institute to do at the moment, except watch and > assist if necessary. It's a very exciting time, and with the last major EVA > tonight, it's nearing it's end. > The Wide Field Planetary Camera II (WFPCII) has passed all it's aliveness > tests, and seems to be working just fine. The astronauts didn't have any I mentioned that I worked at JPL/NASA. I was in a group headed by Mike Shao that was one of many groups working on determining what corrective optics to put in WFPC, atlhough I was working on something else. This was in 89/90 and I was wondering if you knew if they did actually participate in making the new WFPC or if you might even know him. --- AlexGibbs arg@kilimanjaro.opt-sci.arizona.edu |\| | (~, |-| ~|~ |-| /-\ \/\/ |< "A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." "Have you ever seen a picture of Jesus laughing? Mmm, do \ Why Should I you think He had a beautiful smile? A smile that healed." \ Love You? ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 9 Dec 93 8:10:22 EST From: WretchAwry Subject: Re: Image and Music I think this thread is fascinating, and I'm glad it's on-going. I've moaned and groaned about my own weight in Ecto before, and I admire Neile's beautiful attitude toward her weight. I've always been a bit overweight. I blame it on being born premature and weighing 3pounds, 5oz, and me being pumped up with sugar water and ultra high protein-whatever stuff to get me to gain weight before I could be released from the hospital. Hey, wait, I just discovered the answer to *all* my problems! I was in an incubator for 2 months after birth. No *wonder* I always felt like an alien :-). On a more serious note, I believe that there's truth to the theory that sexually molested girls are more likely to gain or lose weight, or otherwise mar themselves in some way. Partially because of an inner feeling of "ugliness" and partially because they hope that if they're "ugly" they won't be bothered anymore. I think for myself, 1) I'm more prone to heftiness because i have big bones and in many ways take after my father's side of the family, 2) I really started to gain a lot more weight after being raped and 3) I just really love food. A lot. My weight has been a problem for me all my life, except... after I met Chris, and he fell in love with me the way I was, didn't try to change me and treated me like a queen, I really started feeling good about myself for the first time in my life. For many years, I actually even liked myself. It's only been since the depression came back, within the last couple+ years, that I really ballooned up, and came to weigh much more than I ever have, and at the same time, the old ugly feelings and self-hatred (for my weight, and other things) came back with a mighty vengeance. SteveF is right about it all being inter-related. At least in my case it is. Nothing's changed with Chris. He *still* loves me as I am, and is just a sweetheart to me. What's changed is my innards, my mindset. If I didn't feel so ugly inside, I wouldn't feel so ugly outside. Because I know that people accept me as I am (if they don't, that's *not* my problem) and I'm well-loved. Not just by Chris, but also by so many Ectophiles, many who have never even met me or seen a photo of me. I gots to fixes the insides, that's my problem. I couldn't help thinking about a couple of songs and I even typed them in. (Yeah, really, you'll hear about Toronto! Honest!) THIS GIRL I KNOW - Jane Siberry All I said was why are you so fat If you don't want to be and all that No big deal- I just want to know Mind your own business- no, I don't mean you It's the table over there I think they think I'm being rude I'm not being rude- I just want to know Then she said- you know I'm gonna lose a lot of weight someday I'll get some new clothes I'll change my style I'll cut my hair I'll meet a lot of men I'll have a lot of dates I'll discriminate I'll get myself together And then I said- why not do it now If you really want to and all that No big deal- I just want to know Mind your own business- no, I don't mean you It's the table over there I think they think I'm being rude I'm not being rude- I just want to know Then she said- you know I'm gonna lose a lot of weight someday I'll get some new clothes I'll change my style I'll cut my hair I'll meet a lot of men I'll have a lot of dates I'll discriminate I'll get myself together And then she leaned over to me And she said- this is gonna sound weird But the reason I don't do it now Is I have this crazy fear That I wouldn't know what to do If a man thought I was...sexy or something And then she leaned back And I leaned back And we didn't say very much after that (C) 1981 Jane Siberry ----------------------------------------------------------- FATSO - The Story This is the last time, this time I will win It took a long time to gain this weight It will take a long time to lose it again I will have only water for a week, then maybe carrots And celery, and if I lose, then Sunday I'll have brown rice Because someone will adore me when my ribs show clearly And I'm thin even when I sit down Someone will admire my gorgeous arms and legs When I'm only one hundred pounds I bought a doctor's scale on sale today It takes up half the bathroom, and it's really ugly But I know it's going to help me reach my goal I get so dizzy when I stand up fast, and I don't feel like Dancing but I know I'm gonna do it this time, for sure Now I walk past the fatsos eating doughnuts With cream filling, icing, jimmies, and I am so glad I am not Like them Because someone will adore me when my ribs show clearly And I'm thin even when I sit down Someone will admire my gorgeous arms and legs When I'm only one hundred pounds Last night I dreamed I ate a chocolate cake, and when I Woke up I was sure it was true, so I weighed myself just to Make sure and drank a Diet Coke I want to be skinny (Oh I am so hungry) (C) 1993 Jonatha Brooke ------------------------------------------------------------------------- (Love the song, hate the title. I doubt very seriously that Jonatha, all 95 pounds of her, has ever been called "Fatso" and has no idea how much it hurts. It was my main nickname in school.) Vickie ======================================================================== From: "Greg O'Rear" Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1993 08:25:58 EST5EDT Subject: Re: ecto #896 Alex wrote: > He also heard a *rumor* from somewhere else that RbG might be the next > US single. It is. I bought it yesterday at Media Play. It has the non-LP song that's apparently on the UK MoP single. I haven't played it, or the Aimee Mann CD single for Stupid Thing, yet (I'm tired). It has the same cover as the UK RbG single, which is why I didn't immediately notice it, but in a regular (not thin) jewel box. Same box and spine design as the US EtM single (beige box, red and black lettering on spine). ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Greg O'Rear E-mail: orear@ise.ufl.edu Industrial and Systems Engineering Department Phone: (904) 392-3389 University of Florida, Gainesville, Florida FAX: (904) 392-3537 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1993 08:31:32 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Colford Subject: Re: Image & music (was Bjork :-() On Wed, 8 Dec 1993, Bob Tufts wrote: > > I admit I haven't followed Heart in the past few years, but I did attend > 3 of their concerts -spaced apart a few years- going back several years. > Each time I saw them live both sisters were what I'd call "wicked!" > (read immensely beautiful) with both being extremely athletic on stage > (kicking leg above head). They were some of the most energetic concerts > I've been to. If Ann has put on the pounds, it must be due to lack of touring > because she wouldn't last 5 minutes if she was overweight at the shows I saw. > Bob, Believe it or not, Anne's increased weight was not due to lack of touring. The last couple of times I saw Heart (mid- to late '80's) Anne was quite heavy, but still putting on a tremendous show (albeit the overhead kicks were no longer there). I used to love Heart in the 70's, and followed their career even through their psuedo metal days of late largely due to Anne's incredible vocals. Hey, any Dalbello fans out there? Her album _She_ is incredible. She has been writing with the Wilson sisters of Heart recently. A couple of her songs appear on the latest Heart album. See ya! Michael ======================================================================== From: kmorrey@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Kathleen Morrey) Subject: Is it just me... Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1993 23:33:33 -0600 (CST) ...or would anyone else here wince to go to a record store to see if they have any Happy, and they call it up on the computer, and say that there are two available items, _RhodeSongs_, which is Jazz, and _Warpaint_ ? I tried to tell them that it wasn't Jazz, but they didn't seem to care - they weren't things in stock, either, they were the only two things that they could order. I don't understand how they would have _Warpaint_ and not _Equipoise_ in their catalog; did Warpaint get a different sort of release, or distribution, or anything? This was a Specs record store; I don't know how big the chain is, but it's the major chain around where I grew up in Florida, I just wanted to see what they knew about her, apparently nothing. Jazz? C'mon! The Indignant Kath ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 9 Dec 93 16:36:44 +0100 From: yngveh@stud.cs.uit.no (Yngve Hauge) Subject: Re: Festival of Lights > I just can't explain it. I know that none of this means anything to > anybody but me (except for the fact that anyone who's made it this > far and is still reading closely probably cares about me) but it > was just so very, very important to hear my sister say that. No one > else has. I doubt no one else in my family will. It amazes me. You know we care about you, Vickie. And you know that we have to (at least I have to) read all your postings) ************ ANOTHER WARNING ************* ANOTHER WARNING ****** I'll use this opportunity to get some depression out of my body. My cousin (Some of you know about it) died earlier this year after he had been sick for many years. I remember how he was before everything collapsed about him (12 years ago I think). We were so very good friends and it never got to my mind that something wasn't like it should be. It's just the same about my family as with yours Vickie at least on my father's side. They never tell you anything and they even don't tell each other anything at all. It's hard sometimes to understand someone could be so little talkable. What conserns me most right now is my youngest cousin. It is clear that he would get the same diagnosis if they every took him to a doctor. But I guess they never will. It hurts me so to see how much more sick he gets between every time I visit the family. I know that my grandfather (May God bless him) saw what was happening and I also know that it didn't help him to live any longer. My cousin didn't even know me the last time I saw him alive. He was so weak, I felt it was the last time I was going to see him. It was his weakness that was the main reason for his death. He got a cold and his body couldn't stand it. But he is gone but nothing has been done to tell his two brothers and sister what his sickness was all about. My cousin, Birgit (I just love that name!), I think got big problems tackling the thought that she may get sick children. But what scares me is that noone has ever tried to talk to her about it. Noone has ever talked to her about anything it seems cause she gets quiet as soon as she is together with other grown ups (not us of course cause we have been together all the time i can remember at least). Some day I'll talk to her about it myself - I can't bear to see her so closed. Maybe already this Christmas. She is 18 and is allowed to decide what to do herself. The best for her right now would be to do some tests at the hospital to check out if everything is ok or not. In every case she would know and could learn to live with it whatever the result of those tests were. Seems like sad things happens close to eachother. Because sort time after I got back home for the summer my grandfather got a stroke and 3 days later he was gone as well. Quite a shock - I had never expected that to happen so soon. At least he died happy and without any pain. It helps a lot ot know that much. He had lived a long and happy life and had done a lot to help other people. he had peace with himself and that is what is important. We'll always remember him like the nice man he was all the time. As that wasn't enough - short time after I had come back here other sad news reached me. My parents phoned me and said that my godfather had been very sick and probably wouldn't live much longer. One week later he was gone too :( And I had no chance to get to his funeral. I feel a kinda guilt cause I never got to tell him how much I cared for him. It's too late now, but still I feelll miserable. Three persons who have meant so much to me are dead. And I still can't believe it. Nice to get it out though. Yngve ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1993 15:48:37 GMT From: imy@wcl-rs.bham.ac.uk (Ian Young) Subject: Re: Festival of Lights >>>>> "Alex" == Alex Gibbs writes: Alex> I got addicted to codeine as a kid and that threw me for a loop. Alex> Plus aspirin and caffeine are known to temporarily aggravate my Alex> ear problem. On a complete tangent, Codeine on headphones gives me ear trouble. Anyone know if they're still going? I really love that gritty, chunky guitar sound on _Pickup Song_, etc., but boy, do their lyrics suck, well, except for _D_, maybe. Ian. ======================================================================== Date: 09 Dec 93 12:58:27 EST From: Mike Mendelson Subject: story liz || Newest Happy Rhodes lookalike candidate: Liz Story | |What do you mean "newest"? Liz Story is a blast from the past, to me |anyway. I remember seeing her videos from "Unaccountable Effect" ages |ago... And yes now that you mention it, I have a vague picture of her in |my head which does remind me of Happy Rhodes too... No, no, silly. I know Liz has been around for a while. Actually I saw her live at least 5 or 6 years ago. What I mean by newest, is that I didn't make the connection (as apparently you didn't either) that she looks very much like Happy until yesterday. -mjm ======================================================================== Date: 09 Dec 93 12:59:28 EST From: Mike Mendelson Subject: bar graphs |ok ok, I was bored so I hacked this histogram from Klaus's Birthday file. |Make of this what you will. [year graph deleted] |ok, and this one too | |Mon ********************** |Tue ********************** |Wed ********************* |Thu ****************** |Fri ******************** |Sat *************** |Sun **************** Well, you've left out the potentially most interesting one: A distribution of birth Months! Go to it! -mjm ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1993 09:57:40 -0800 (PST) From: Neile Graham Subject: A Happy Sampler Hi, everyone-- Just wanted to share with you a sampler I've made for a few people curious about Happy's work. One copy is going to Brazil, so Happy will soon conquer yet another continent. >From Rhodes I: Oh The Drears The Wretches Gone Awry >From Rearament: Perfect Irony Ally Ally Oxenfree >From Ecto: If Love is a Game, I Win Would That I Could Ecto Poetic Justice When The Rain Came Down >From Warpaint: Waking Up Murder Phobos Wrong Century Words Weren't Made for Cowards Warpaint >From Equipoise: The Flight Out Like a Lamb Closer I Say >From RhodeSongs: Ashes to Ashes I would have added "Feed the Fire" acoustic version if I had used 100 min instead of 90. I was trying to give a sense of the range of her styles and the progression in her music and also to include my favourite favourites. Kind of a hard balance to maintain, especially when trying to make an introductory tape. --Neile neile@u.washington.edu ======================================================================== The ecto archives are on hardees.rutgers.edu in ~ftp/pub/hr. There is an INDEX file explaining what is where. Feel free to send me things you'd like to have added. -- jessica (jessica@ns1.rutgers.edu)