Errors-To: ecto-owner@ns1.rutgers.edu Reply-To: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Sender: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu From: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu To: ecto-request@ns1.rutgers.edu Bcc: ecto-digest-outbound@ns1.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto #898 ecto, Number 898 Friday, 10 December 1993 Today's Topics: *-----------------* Miracle at Mt. Zion One Dove Calling All Angels Re: Miracle at Mt. Zion Re: radio - reply to bob Re: slight height, great weight, Re: some stuff from the last couple of digests Re: Calling All Angels so it goes Hey Belay Bday! Re: Festival of Lights ======================================================================== In an effort to not include in the digests the duplicate messages from nuucp@rutgers.edu (argh), I *may* have accidentally deleted a post that should be here. I don't think I did, but if something you sent in the last day doesn't appear in this or the next three digests (there was a *LOT* of traffic today!!) please let me know. Even if you don't have your original post. I have kept copies of everything that did come in today regardless of from uucp or not. --jessica ======================================================================== From: r.lovejoy1@genie.geis.com Date: Thu, 9 Dec 93 01:44:00 BST Subject: Miracle at Mt. Zion Hello everyone, This morning when I got to work the facility's manager pulled me aside with the news that my wife had called. While I was on my way into work she'd gotten a call from San Francisco - my mom had suffered a masive heart attack and was in intensive care. I came straight home, and finally reached my father. Mom, who is 76, had been at her aerobics class at 7 AM when she had the attack. Fortunately for her, the instructor was CPR trained and kept her alive till the medics came. She remained unconcious all morning. I recently heard from the hospital that she was concious but groggy, and still on a respirator. The nurse told me it was a miracle she was alive, that an attack of that magnitude usually results in the worst of news, and credited the prompt CPR and the strength of her heart from being in shape for her progress thus far. Her blood pressure is stable and heartbeat is regular at this time. I tried to get out there at once but the airlines wanted $745 each way, which is way out of my means. Once I check tomorrow on her condition I'll probably book a flight for next week. (If you book in advance, round trip fare is $462!!!) It's a drag to have to wait, but at least my sister was able to catch a plane from the Virgin Islands where she lives, and will be there tonight. So today is kind of a rough day. This morning I spoke to my son's class about television and how it works. He's in seventh grade and they were studying it in science. Then I went on to work... Well, thanks for letting me share this with all of you. Ecto is like a big extended family, and it's nice to know there are so many nice people out there! Talk tou you all soon. Send positive vibes toward S.F. for me, OK? +*************************************************************************+ + Robert Lovejoy + I've got a letter here postmarked Deep Space + + Deepspace + -The Firesign Theatre + + Cherry Hill, NJ + But baby I'm here and I've been quite an + + r.lovejoy1@genie.geis.co + Alien too... + + kdvn07a on Prodigy + -Happy Rhodes + +*************************************************************************+ ======================================================================== From: r.lovejoy1@genie.geis.com Date: Thu, 9 Dec 93 01:45:00 BST Subject: One Dove Forgot to mention, or maybe I just wanted to give it a separate post: This morning WXPN played a wonderful song by a Scottish group called One Dove. The album was called Morning Dove White and the song was, I think, "White Dove". It had a little dance feel to it, a lot of bubbly ethereal melody, and a singer whose higher range sounds eerily like our beloved Kate Bush. (As I don't have the new album yet, I thought it was a track from it at first!) This album, or at least this song, is wonderful! I also heard "Rubberband Girl" for the first time today. "White Dove" is better IMVHO. Has anyone else heard of this group? (I'm not as hip as I'd like to be!) Peace and joy to everyone, +*************************************************************************+ + Robert Lovejoy + I've got a letter here postmarked Deep Space + + Deepspace + -The Firesign Theatre + + Cherry Hill, NJ + But baby I'm here and I've been quite an + + r.lovejoy1@genie.geis.co + Alien too... + + kdvn07a on Prodigy + -Happy Rhodes + +*************************************************************************+ ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 9 Dec 93 04:33:51 +0100 From: brage@id.dth.dk (Jens P. Brage) Subject: Calling All Angels Hi Angels! Just a brief message from the "Sunshine Capital" of Australia (I've rarely seen so much rain! ;-)). Hope you're all doing well, though I haven't really read the digests, it seems that special congratulations are due to Courtney and Kiri! [I'm typing this over a *very* slow link, with no editing... Sigh!] See you all slightly before Winter Solstice! Jens. ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 8 Dec 93 22:51:53 EST From: WretchAwry Subject: Re: Miracle at Mt. Zion > - my mom had suffered a masive heart > attack and was in intensive care. Oh my! :-( :-( :-( Thanks for telling us Bob, and keep us informed, please. **HUG**HUG**HUG** Vickie ======================================================================== From: r.lovejoy1@genie.geis.com Date: Thu, 9 Dec 93 03:39:00 BST Subject: Re: radio - reply to bob Hello Fellow Bob, I live in Cherry Hill, across the street from where Happy's manager grew up. We must get together soon! Also I note Joe Zitt claiming locality! Dare I mention Cherry Hill Ectofest in the near future? (Phillyphiles too!) And Bob, you must be new to the area. WDRE is not an ecto station at all. They don't play Kate, they refused Happy. The ultimate ecto station of all times is right here. The first major station to play Happy Rhodes in the USA. The station Happy listens to when she's in town. The station that Often plays Dead Can Dance, as well as Bjork, Cranberries, and a host of ectofaves - the phenomenal WXPN, 88.5 fm!!! You and Joe and I must get together! +*************************************************************************+ + Robert Lovejoy + I've got a letter here postmarked Deep Space + + Deepspace + -The Firesign Theatre + + Cherry Hill, NJ + But baby I'm here and I've been quite an + + r.lovejoy1@genie.geis.co + Alien too... + + kdvn07a on Prodigy + -Happy Rhodes + +*************************************************************************+ ======================================================================== Subject: Re: slight height, great weight, Date: Wed, 08 Dec 93 23:12:35 -0500 From: jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu > >mjm's people altering talk show sounds really interesting. Yeah, I found it rather interesting too, since I happened to see the same episode of whichever show it was (I'm going to guess Jenny Jones), and I almost never watch morning-type talk shows! >I was really turned off, since I've had a few tall people lord >it over those of us who are height impaired. In fact, for the >longest time I was madly in love with a woman taller than I was, and she wouldn't even admit that SHE would only consider a taller >man. Bummer for her. My brother, not really short at 5'8", but neither tall, is married to a woman who is, oh, I'm not sure, 6' or maybe 6'1". Somewhere around there. 4 or 5 inches doesn't sound like much, but as anyone who's seen the two of them (to date, I think Mike Matthews is the only ectophile to have met them) will attest to the fact that Marcy virtually *towers* over Scott. I think it's wonderful. Scott seems to think it's pretty wonderful too. At the last extended family function I attended, during the dreaded family photography session, I noticed that in the shots including just Scott and Marcy, the photographer had Marcy sit down and Scott stand so he would appear taller. I later asked Marcy if such requests from photographers were common and whether she found them offensive. She told me that it happens about 1/2 the time and she doesn't mind it; she seems to like having mixed photos, in some of which she's taller, and others in which Scott is taller. Jeff (whose own comment on this weight thing is that he's *never* been attracted to skinny men...;-) ======================================================================== From: anthony baxter Subject: Re: some stuff from the last couple of digests Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1993 16:08:38 +1100 First off, heaps and heaps of congratulations to Courtney and Kiri - I hope that the ceremony (whenever you do have it) is everything you hoped for, and best wishes for your future together. to both of you. :-) Fellow 'Anthony Conspiracy' ;-) member Anthony Horan wrote: > Just a quick "help" message; I'm after a copy of Sarah MacLachlan's > "Fumbling Towards Ecstacy" on CD. It's hard to find. No record store > here will import from Canada, and Nettwerk want to hit me for massive > postal charges and a 10 week delivery time, by which time it'll > probably be out in the US and freely available anyway. :) > So - if anyone knows of a store that sells this CD either in Canada > or the US, and would like to trade a copy for something from here > (haven't you always wanted to hear Margot Smith? :-) then please mail > me, I'll be eternally grateful. Well, Readings in Lygon St, Carlton will import it - I know, I just received it today, took about 2 weeks to arrive. I've used them in the past to import CD's - they charge about AUS$32 for them. I've imported 3 Happy CD's through them as well, when I picked up Equipoise, they said "so, you getting the rest of her CD's? We want to listen to them" :-) For any other Aussies out there, I recommend this as an easier way to get overseas releases, rather than having to deal with exchange rates and suchlike yourself. (If you're not in Melbourne, and cant find any other places that will import things, let me know, and I can find out if they know any other places in other cities that they recommend.) (of course, the easiest solution would be for you to move to Melbourne ;-) As for FTE, wow. This is a great album. I've only listened to it all the way through once so far (partway through it for the second time) (hey, I only got it a couple of hours ago, give me a break :-) I also picked up Margot Smith's 'Sleeping With The Lion'. I'll try to do a detailed review of it sometime soon and send it to ecto. As far as the thread on appearances, and the excessive importance that some seem to put on them - I've found that the people who care excessively about how other people look are often the ones who are also most upset about their own looks. Sure, nearly everyone would like to be able to change _some_ things about their appearance, but the things that really matter are those that arent going to be immediately visible - like what sort of person they are inside. Of course, that didnt stop me from going and getting my hair dyed reddish recently because I got bored with brown. :-) Electronic communications (like email and irc and stuff), are actually a real bonus in this area - one of my bestest female friends I met through email initially, and it was several months later before I actually met her. She's fairly, umm, well, she's rather good looking, and I think that had I met her face to face initially, I would have been too scared/nervous/shy to have tried to get to know her, and so would have then missed out on a wonderful friend. Oh, and thanks to Neal for the Santa piece - gave me a laugh just when I needed it... Anthony ======================================================================== From: snpf@ugcs.caltech.edu (The Duchess Of York) Subject: Re: Calling All Angels Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 21:56:17 -0800 (PST) Calling All Angels!!!!!!! Do we all realize this is a song on the soundtrack of 'Until the End of the World', which has been mentioned before, and I absolutely love, with k.d.lang and jane siberry dueting? I love it! -joy -seanympf ======================================================================== From: mbravo@tctube.spb.su (Michael E. Bravo) Subject: so it goes Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1993 09:12:18 +0300 (MSD) Hello out there, Just some quick news before getting off to catch my train Simply FYI :) - yesterday I made a small run through the Nevsky prospect music stores. I didn't expect to find Happy's music there, and so I didn't, but there was Kate's Hounds of Love, lots of Peter Gabriel, some Genesis... such CDs cost in $10-$20 range here, new. Unfortunately, the only shop I knew which selld used CDs, Nirvana, is closed for repairs so couldn't check it. Another step in spreading Happy's music here :) - from Russia to Mexico. I talked with a friend of mine on IRC, just saying bye till January because they close their computer facilities today, and I said that I know new great music. She was interested, so I gave her Aural Gratification address and she'll most probably write there for info or order something RSN. She'll say I sent her :))) I also intend to try and get some Happy's songs aired on one of local FM stations - Radio 1, Radio Baltics. Europe Plus or Radio Rocks. Investigating. Last night I was browsing through Ecto archives and read the description of Klaus' 1992 EurEctoParty... Seems it was wonderful and I'm looking forward to taking part in something like that in the future, or maybe organizing one :) - but the question I got is - are there any chances to get a copy of those concerts on tape, which they listened to? That is, does someone keep those records, and if yes, perhaps we could arrange the copying? Best wishes from St.Petersburg -- Michael E. Bravo AKA /\/\ike 7 812 231 3951 (home) The Communication Tube and Tusovka, Inc. mbravo@tctube.spb.su ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 9 Dec 93 3:49:05 EST From: WretchAwry Subject: Hey Belay Bday! Ken, I didn't forget you. I just spaced off the time! HAPPY BIRTHDAY to Ken Hoyme!! *HUG*!! Vickie ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 9 Dec 93 4:28:09 EST From: WretchAwry Subject: Re: Festival of Lights Chappy Chanukah! > Love, > Cholly Yep-too! & Chappy chocolate cday to the Germany-philes! Vickie ps, will this stuff confuse our newly-found Russia-philes? (Don't worry Mike and Paul, it's not you, it's Holly-speak, which is very similar to Neile-speak, except that someone's already come up with a program to translate Neile-speak (it's been working *very* well, congrats to whoever -Jim?- wrote the program) and as of yet, no one has come up with a similar program for Holly-speak. The only reason I was able to translate this one is because Holly and I take some of the same drugs, so our minds merge >-) (closed-eyed smiley). pps, so as not to cast an unfavorable light on Holly being a drugged-out, psychedelic-seeing hippie, I should mention that the main drug in question is a wonder drug called "AC&C" which Holly recommended we look for while in Canada. We did that (within the first hour or so too. Charley had a headache and Chris was coming down with the flu. Aside from my on-going mental problems, I was the only healthy person throughout the trip to Toronto) and it is indeed, a wonder drug. Chris and Charley want to do Public Service Announcements to get the FDA to approve it for USA consumption. I haven't tried it myself yet. I keep *wanting* to get a headache just so I can try some. Aspirin, Caffine, and Codene, in case anyone's wondering. It's an over-the-counter (more precisely, a behind-the-counter) drug, available without prescription in Canada, but available *only* with a doctor's prescription in the USA. Chris expressed much appreciation at the way people are treated as intelligent beings in Canada. Charley too, especially when he found an antihistamine called "Seldane"(sp?) which is very expensive *and* available by prescription only in the US. He said it was a wonder drug for him, in that it clears up his sinuses and doesn't make him drowsy or druggy. ppps, me too, while watching Much Music, which is much *MUCH* better than MTV. *** WARNING *** WARNING *** WARNING *** As I began typing this next part I realized I was starting to get very serious, as compared to the light-heartedness above. As the post continued, it got darker and darker, and ended up with some very personal and very disturbing (as regards to me personally) writing. It turned from a topic I'm interested in (and an apology if I offended anybody) to tragic tales, a bit of lecturing, and personal thoughts. I don't know how it happened. I just started writing and it followed its own, disturbing, course. I got knocked off-line before I could send it. When I got back on, I was able to recover it and saved it to a file. Then I got involved in IRC, happily talking to Holly, Philip in New Zealand and later (after I got knocked off-line again) Craig in Toronto. Well, when I came back to restore this draft, I had already decided to delete everything from this point on (that last ppps about Much Music) but I can't bring myself to do that now. I think...far too often I'll write stuff that never makes it to Ecto... far too often I worry too much about being depressing. After all, anyone can skip anything I write, right? Especially if I put a warning on it, as I'm doing now. I wrote it, I'm gonna post it, even if it makes little sense or is depressing. (Would you believe that I've got an *unfinished* 500+ line post--took me 7 hours to write--in response to NeAl's post about the guy who was in jail awaiting trial, at which the jury found him innocent, and I just gave up on finishing it. I don't know why.) So anyway, that's my disclaimer. If you're not in the mood to read depressing stuff, then you should skip the rest of this post. ("You" means anybody, not just Holly or Canadians) pppps, I hope I didn't offend anyone, especially Canadians, with my post about that media blackout. I never called it censorship, and I didn't mean it to sound like that. On the one hand, I certainly do understand the need to keep details (which might predjudice a jury in the second trial) secret. Just as important are the feelings of the families of the two girls. However, I was curious about the ban itself. Not just the black-out of news broadcasts, magazines and papers from the USA, but the one originally imposed in Canada, Toronto specifically. That happened after I quit receiving clips from Toronto newspapers. Before the clips quit, I had followed the case since before the police caught a suspect (Paul Teale) and when they were even refusing to say that the two cases (Leslie Mahaffy and Kristen French) were related at all. I saw how the cases evolved from occasional short "No leads at this time" stories, which usually focused on one girl or the other, but rarely both together, to a large feature story on both girls (which seemed to be a product of a behind-the-scenes collaboration between the reporter who thought the cases might be linked and the families of the girls who didn't want their cases, and of course, the girls as people, to be forgotten) to some sort of story featuring the murders appearing nearly every day, to the sensational and controversial arrest of Paul Bernardo(sp?) for the Scarborough(sp?) rapes. Once that happened, there were rumours flying around that he would be charged with the murders of *both* girls, which caused an even bigger sensation. The publicity *exploded* and there were major stories every day in the Toronto newspapers. (My guess is that Paul Bernardo changed his last name to Teale simply because his last name was being splashed all over the papers. Little good it did him, since Teale is splashed just as much, and everybody knows it's the same guy.) It was shortly after that that the client (whoever it was that wanted every single clipping from every single newspaper in America and Canada about every single missing, murdered and abused child-- believe me, the above wasn't the only case I followed. I cried a *LOT* while I was getting those clips) cancelled the order and they all stopped coming. I was left with questions...was Bernardo going to be arrested? Was his father (who, at the time of his son's arrest, was also in jail for sexual assault) in on it? Did his wife know? (Of course, within the last week I've found out that not only was she arrested too, she was tried first and found guilty. The ban is to prevent details from *her* trial from getting splashed all over the newspapers) It really seems like a no-win situation for Bernardo, *because* there wasn't a media black-out from the very beginning. Anyone who read the Toronto papers saw his name every day for months. Then his wife is tried and found guilty? Wow. I imagine that's when the blackout really began, though there were rumblings of it when he was first arrested. How long *did* it take? Can anyone answer that? There was a saying about jury systems that I've forgotten, but the gist of it was that you had to find intelligent, fair-minded people who never read newspapers, watch TV news, or listen to gossip at the water fountain. There was something about an oxymoron in there... It's not that I feel sorry for Bernardo (he's in jail-with no bail, I might add-for the alleged murders of two teenage girls *and* for a series of serial rapes. If he's innocent, fine. If he's guilty, I would hope that he'll never walk the streets again) it's just that I can't see how he can get a completely fair trial. Picking that jury is going to be the harest part of the entire process. How did I get into that? I don't remember, but anyway, it's not a soap opera and it's not a movie or novel. It's *real life* (and death) and these things happen and people should be concerned that these things happen, because it (rape and/or murder) might happen to someone you know and care about. If someone like that monster in Petaluma can serve *half* of a 16-year (only 16?) sentence for kidnapping and abduction and be released without supervision, only to break into a house, kidnap 12-year old Polly Klaas, rape (probably) and murder her, then someone (else) like that monster in Petaluma can do it too. Kristin, Leslie & Polly are *not* isolated and uncommon situations. It happens *every* day. Not that we do (or should) think about it every day, but most people don't think about it at *all*, not until it happens to someone they know, or a Kristin, Leslie or Polly (or Tammy Zywicki) case comes along and captures attention. I'm not going to get into statistics, but a majority of these sexual assault/murders are committed by people who have been in jail before. The sentencing and parole systems in the USA and Canada, especially concerning sex crimes, are *abysmal*. (I just finished reading a book called "Criminal Neglect--Why Sex Offenders Go Free" which is mainly about the Canadian system, but there are parallels to the USA system). It's insane that people spend *years* in jail for possessing a small amount of drugs, or large amounts of harmless drugs, as in the case of kilos of marijuana, when sex offenders are routinely set free after serving little or no prison time. Something's wrong somewhere, but it won't change unless people get *angry* about it. "It's not my problem" will only work until someone you know is victimized by an offender who was set free after serving only part of a previous sentence, or after serving a light or suspended sentence. But I have no answers as to what people can do. I've only been learning more about this stuff within the past year or so. It makes me angry, but I don't know what to do myself. I'm just glad that I know a little about what's going on, as sad and distasteful as it all is, and that perhaps I can get someone else to think about it. Does this affect me personally? Being honest, yes. I cry for the sexually abused and murdered children/teenagers/women because it makes me sad that such things happen, but also because "...there, only by the grace of goddess, go I" (because I've been sexually molested and raped multiple times, and I think that in any one of the situations I could have ended up dead. Perhaps that sounds melodramatic, but death is always a possibility when you're at the mercy of someone who is obviously *not* in control of anything, be it their emotional empathy or their hatred or their bodily urges. Or all three. I was *extremely* lucky and I know that.) One more thing, as long as I'm here writing a really depressing post... If you've made it this far, then one more depressing thing won't make much difference. Among the many things that have contributed to my most recent Major Depression was finding out something that gave me a massive guilt trip. I'll give a bit of background to jar the memories of Ectophiles who already know my "Story" and to avoid perplexing newer Ectophiles who are completely lost at this point. It'll be short, I promise. My childhood and teenage years were unfortunately marred by molestation and rapes (yes, plural) and one of the worst happened when I was 14. My 22-year old (I found out recently exactly how old he was at the time) cousin and a friend of his abducted me, drugged me (I'm sure of it now) and raped me. Many times, over a 24 hour period. It was not discovered, and I never told *anybody* *at* *all* until a little over a year ago. (I'm 37 now, that's a long time to keep such a secret.) A little over a year ago, I started writing down the things that had happened to me and posting them to alt.sexual.abuse.recovery. Then I told Chris, then I told my father, I told my son, and eventually I told Ecto. I posted about it in Ecto and was absolutely *terrified* because I had posted anonymously in a.s.a.r, yet most people knew me in Ecto. Of course, Ecto being Ecto, I got nothing but the highest and most awe-inspiring support and warmth you could possibly imagine. Even so, I tossed off the posts as a "joke" and didn't talk much about it again. Too much anyway. I don't know why I want to add this, because it's been nearly a year since I posted my Story in Ecto, but I do. A few weeks ago I called a cousin of mine, she's the older sister of the cousin who raped me. We talked about trivial things for a while, then I turned the conversation serious. She asked me how I'd been, and instead of just saying "Fine" I told her about my continuing depression, suicidal thoughts, feelings of worthlessness, self-hatred and all the other things that go along with being clinically depressed. She asked me if I knew what was causing the depression and I said that there were numerous problems and that it was pretty complex, but I said "I can tell you one thing, but I'm afraid you'll hate me or that you'll hang up on me" and she asked me to please tell her. This was scary, because it was the first time I'd be telling anybody from my rapist-cousin's immediate family. How could I tell a sister that her brother had done such a horrible thing to me? However, I knew that she was the oldest in the family, that she is a very level-headed and fair person, and that she would hear me out. So I said it. "When I was 14 BT and a friend of his raped me" and the first thing she said was "Oh I'm *SO* sorry for you!" and the second thing she said was "I'm not suprised, not at all." !WHAT! We talked for a *long* time! Now, some Ectophiles who read my story might remember that when I told my father about BT's raping me, he told me that BT was in prison, but he (my father) said that he didn't know why, what for. I asked my cousin why BT was in prison. She choked up a little bit and said "He's serving a 4-14 year sentence for sexually molesting his daughter." This happened when the daughter was 12-13. BT is in his 4th year in prison, and has already been denied parole once. Oh my god... We talked a long time about the probability of there being more victims scattered around. From some things she told me, there very likely are, at least in the family, his family. What if I had told? What if I had called the police? What if I had told my parents and they had called the police? What if I could have protected future victims from his sickness? His daughter, if no one else? It was my fault, I could have protected her. She was victimized because I didn't say anything. He got away with what he did to me, and it gave him free reign to sexually abuse at least one other person, and probably more. I can't even begin to describe the heavy burden of guilt, the self-hatred, the mental lashings I've given myself since I found out. I know that people will say it's not my fault, and intellectually I know it's true. It wasn't my fault that I was raped, and it wasn't my fault that I was terrorized and shamed into keeping quiet about it, and it wasn't my fault that his daughter had to suffer from his sickness, I know all that, but it doesn't help me feel it *emotionally*. I'm all screwed up inside. Intellectually, I'm angry at my cousin for what he did to me, but I haven't *felt* the anger yet. It's buried, deep. Yet, I can feel deep anger and hatred for *myself* for not turning him in. I can't yet channel the anger to where it belongs, and it's tearing me up. That's not even a fraction of the story... I'm also upset with my father. I might have had this particular "issue" (buzzwordbuzzword) cleared up by now if my dad had told me over a *year* ago that BT was in prison for sexually molesting his daughter. You see, he knew, he *knew* at the time I told him about BT raping me, but he didn't tell me. He just pretended that he didn't know why BT was in prison. As long as I'm here, bitching about how closed-mouthed my father is, I'll tell you something else too. The night I told him ('twas October 1992) about BT raping me, about being sexually molested by a neighbor when I was 5, and a few other things, all this stuff that he had no previous knowledge about, this heavy-duty phone call which lasted at least an hour, the whole time, during the entire conversation, my stepmother was sitting at the kitchen table listening to dad's side of the conversation, but not hearing what I was telling him, yet, when he hung up, he didn't tell her *one* *word* about what I told him. He just said "Vickie has problems" and never spoke of it again. I assumed he'd tell her, and that was fine. She's a wonderful woman, very warm and caring and compassionate. It was ok with me that she know. But he didn't tell her. *I* told her a few weeks ago (and she said "I always wondered what that conversation was about. I'm so sorry for you") when I found out, shocked as I was, that she didn't know. You see, this is the kind of family I grew up in. Secretive, never show your feelings, don't let other people know your business, especially your problems, even if those other people are family members. My father was angry at me when he found out I told her. I don't know why, and I'll probably never know because I can't discuss my depression with him anymore. The other recent revelation came when I talked to my sister a few weeks ago too. I hadn't talked to her since my grandmother died in 1990, and before that, I hadn't talked to her since my mother died in 1982. We were never close. My father is her stepfather, and he married our mother when she was 13. I was born when she was 15, she married and moved out of the state when she was 16, so except for the first year, my only dealings with her have been Christmas cards, the occasional birthday card as a child, and various family get-togethers. Since my mom and I were never close, I always assumed that Rita and my mother were *very* close. All my life, I felt like like an alien and an outsider in my own family. I *assumed* the problem was with me. I *assumed* that Rita and my mom were close and that I was the daughter "out." I wanted to talk to Rita because I was sorry I didn't know my mother very well. I really hardly knew her at all. When I was 13, my mom had a nervous breakdown and was hospitalized for over a month. To this day, I do not know *why* my mother had a nervous breakdown. It was all kept very secret, and we weren't to talk about it, and we didn't. I never asked her, and she never told me. Now that I *can't* ask her, I really want to know. Besides knowing her better, it's possible that whatever happened to her has a bearing on my illness. I even tried to get her medical records from that time, but they've been destroyed. My uncle, her brother, didn't know why (I called and asked) so I thought that perhaps Rita could tell me, if she would. They were so close and everything, right? Imagine my suprise when (after background about my depression and the whole situation was given to her) she said she and my mother had *never* been close, *ever*, at *all*! Perhaps it doesn't sound like a "revelation" but it turned my entire world of perception upside down. I didn't get the information I'd called her for, but got whacked upside the head with something I was *not* prepared for. Oh, we talked and we talked and we talked.... The one other thing she said which most boggled my already boggled mind was "I always felt *really* sorry for you and Randy (my brother) because you guys had a really bad homelife." You can't imagine what this simple line, which she tossed off casually in the middle of something totally unrelated, did to me. Without going into details about my childhood, some of which I've written about, some of which I haven't, I can certainly agree with her. (Though I do remember some happy times. Plus, many children have (had) far, *FAR* worse childhoods than me. I was *very* lucky compared to some children who have had to deal with horrors I can't even begin to imagine.) Still, what this did, what she said, was amazing to me. Because, it's the *first* time *anyone* in the family has mmmm (buzzwordbuzzword) "validated" my own feelings about my childhood. It wasn't just me who felt things were wrong. It wasn't just me!! It *isn't* just me! My mother is gone and I can't talk to her about anything anymore. My father is sick and tired of my depression (he yelled at me "You gotta get over this! You gotta quit living in the past!) and I still have not gotten up the nerve to talk to my brother about any of it. (As far as I know, he knows *nothing* about my depression. I sure haven't told him, and now I figure that dad hasn't told him either.) I just can't explain it. I know that none of this means anything to anybody but me (except for the fact that anyone who's made it this far and is still reading closely probably cares about me) but it was just so very, very important to hear my sister say that. No one else has. I doubt no one else in my family will. It amazes me. I don't know why I felt the need to write all that, and I don't even know if I'll be posting this, but I needed to get it written down and even if I don't know why, I'm glad I did. I haven't made sense of so many things (not just the stuff above) and there are so many more puzzle pieces missing, but every little bit helps me. I think. Vickie (victim no more, but not yet "survivor") "It lay buried here, it lay deep inside me..." KB "Oh child be strong in all you do. Know yourself through and through" HTR "I'm digging in the dirt, to find the places I got hurt" PG "Every day, I crucify myself" TA ======================================================================== The ecto archives are on hardees.rutgers.edu in ~ftp/pub/hr. There is an INDEX file explaining what is where. Feel free to send me things you'd like to have added. -- jessica (jessica@ns1.rutgers.edu)