Errors-To: ecto-owner@ns1.rutgers.edu Reply-To: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Sender: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu From: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu To: ecto-request@ns1.rutgers.edu Bcc: ecto-digest-outbound@ns1.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto #891 ecto, Number 891 Monday, 6 December 1993 Today's Topics: *-----------------* Re: Tribe promos If Kate... Who is That Dog? (Mazzy, Kirsty) Don't get Happy the same present... gaffa bashing More quickies I'm going to end it all now ATTENTION PIONEER VALLEY-PHILES Re: ecto #890 message from Michael ======================================================================== From: p.cohen@genie.geis.com Date: Fri, 3 Dec 93 04:26:00 BST Subject: Re: Tribe promos > Well, I'm a free market kind of guy, so i don't subscribe to that > ideology very wholeheartedly. I consider used record stores to be among > the most splendid places on the earth. I imagine that most bands do not > get all too worked up about a whole bunch of their promos being sold > for pocket change. 'cos look at me. I liked what I heard and I ended up > buying "abort" with -real- money! So, anyways, now they've made their > 25 cents in royalty. :) In my case, the promo did serve a pretty good > purpose. Of course, now that I know that I like Tribe, I can always > redeem myself and buy a new copy of 'sleeper' and dispose of my > illegally purchased promo using some environmentally correct method, > making sure that no other potential fans ever hear this disc... I hope you didn't get me wrong about promos and used discs. There is absolutely nothing wrong with used discs at all. I buy 'em all the time. But a new and struggling band needs all the support they can get. It's a thorny question. Yeah, I see piles of 'junk' promos all the time that aren't always junk. But the mass market considers them so. Bottom line is that bands we like need our support or they're not gonna be making records too long. If the promo turned you on to Tribe, then it's a good thing and doesn't really fall into what I've been talking about anyway. It'd be better if the promos got Tribe played on the radio. Local alternative station WDRE played "Red Rover" from "Sleeper" for about a week. It's a shame THAT was dropped, but anything Clone Temple Pilots puts out becomes a "Shriek of the Week". End of tirade. +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Paul Cohen +---+ P.COHEN@genie.geis.com +---+ +---+ 5500 Wissahickon Ave +---+ 70703.3126@compuserve.com +---+ +---+ Apt 512B +---+ PMCOHEN@aol.com +---+ +---+ Philadelphia, PA 19144 +---+ PMCOHEN@delphi.com +---+ +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1993 10:40:57 +0000 From: S.L.Fagg@bnr.co.uk (Steve Fagg's Mac) Subject: Re: Tribe promos At 4:26 am 3/12/93 +0100, p.cohen@genie.geis.com wrote: > > Well, I'm a free market kind of guy, so i don't subscribe to that > > ideology very wholeheartedly. I consider used record stores to be among > > the most splendid places on the earth. I imagine that most bands do not > > get all too worked up about a whole bunch of their promos being sold > > for pocket change. 'cos look at me. I liked what I heard and I ended up > > buying "abort" with -real- money! So, anyways, now they've made their > > 25 cents in royalty. :) In my case, the promo did serve a pretty good > > purpose. Of course, now that I know that I like Tribe, I can always > > redeem myself and buy a new copy of 'sleeper' and dispose of my > > illegally purchased promo using some environmentally correct method, > > making sure that no other potential fans ever hear this disc... > >I hope you didn't get me wrong about promos and used discs. There is >absolutely nothing wrong with used discs at all. I buy 'em all the time. >But a new and struggling band needs all the support they can get. It's a >thorny question. Yeah, I see piles of 'junk' promos all the time that >aren't always junk. But the mass market considers them so. Bottom line is >that bands we like need our support or they're not gonna be making records >too long. If the promo turned you on to Tribe, then it's a good thing and >doesn't really fall into what I've been talking about anyway. It'd be >better if the promos got Tribe played on the radio. Yes! To me this gets to the heart of the matter. Used discs are fair enough (the artist has had the benefit of the first sale anyway) as long as people are not taping the discs, selling the discs, and keeping the tapes. Promos are different in that the artist has had no income from them, indeed the reverse, they are a loss-leader intended to generate sales through airplay and reviews. Promos that are sold hit the artist two ways: as well as displacing a legitimate sale, they are not being played on the radio and therefore failing to generate further sales (OK this second "hit" doesn't apply to review copies that are sold after a review has been written). For well-established mainstream artists the loss of sales caused by people buying promos instead of new copies (the "instead of" is of crucial significance here) is insignificant, and I wouldn't loose any sleep over it. For a band such as I understand Tribe to be, and even more so for somebody like Happy, the loss is far more significant. I can't imagine that an artist like Phil Collins, for example (and I've nothing against Phil Collins, quite the reverse - that's why I use him as an example here) sends out anything like the proportion of his product as promos that Happy does, there must be several orders of magnitude difference. The majority of people espoused on Ecto couldn't fairly be described as well-established mainstream artists. We are not buying "product" in these cases, we are supporting the artist, in the case of somebody not on a major label the support can be pretty direct too. So, please don't buy promos instead of legitimate copies. If you can afford to, it would help the artist if people bought promos and then used them to help promote further sales, either by sending them to radio stations or places where they might be reviewed, or by giving them to people who wouldn't otherwise buy anything by the artist but who might do once they'd heard the music. Remember, we are Happy's "army", let's work to help her continue doing what she does! -- Regards Steve Fagg ( S.L.Fagg@bnr.co.uk +44-279-402437 ) BNR Europe Ltd., London Road, Harlow, Essex, CM17 9NA, UK *** "Better drowned than duffers. If not duffers, won't drown". *** -- Steve x2437 If a food processor is something that chops up food, then what does that make a word processor? ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 03 Dec 93 08:43:55 CDT From: Chip Lueck Subject: Re: Tribe promos Steve Fagg writes: > If a food processor is something that chops up food, > then what does that make a word processor? > If trains stop at train stations, then what happens at work stations? -chip ======================================================================== From: shark@cs.ucla.edu (Jeanne B. Schreiter) Subject: If Kate... Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1993 08:23:56 -0800 (PST) If Kate's going to be in the US, what is the chance she'll do an interview with some talk show guru? Would Kate just come for the anniversary biz and that's it? Somehow I'd like to think not. If anyone hears anything else, please PLEASE POST IT! Jeanne green lawns and wooden snowmen just don't complete the Xmas picture ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1993 11:39:06 -0600 From: Melissa Nordsiek kate is getting big i heard a song of hers on the local radio station here in PEE-oria... they only play REALLY popular alternative (what an oxymoron...) missy ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 3 Dec 93 10:50:46 PST From: Neal R. Copperman Subject: Who is That Dog? (Mazzy, Kirsty) Saw Mazzy Star last night, and was quite impressed. I had seen them open for the Cocteaus a few years ago, and they made absolutely no impression on me, so this was a pleasent surprise. I just don't think they have a big enought sound or presence to fill an auditorium, but they were great in a club. The music was dark and kind of droney, but it had really insistent and clever bass lines and rhythms behind it, and created a good mood, at least for the audience, if not the band, who didn't seem to be having much of a good time. The only words spoken were Hope Sandoval on the encore telling people who were talking to go stand in the back, it was really fucking annoying, and they'd been doing it all night. At the end of the show the guitarist thanked "all the quiet people" and then left. Opening were two bands, St. Christopher and That Dog, and I'm not sure which was which. I could only a few minutes of the first band, which I thought was That Dog, and really liked them. They were 3 woman, playing guitar, bass and violin, and a non-woman drummer. I didn't here any singing in the time I was there, but liked the music. Anyone know anything about them. St. C. was noisy and layered and not that interesting. They played a very long time, and even played two songs as a cruel joke after informing us this was their final song. The night before Kirsty MacColl put on a great performance at the same club. I was surprised how rowdy she and her band were. She seemed pretty uncomfortable at first, but losened up a lot as the show progressed. She played a lot of stuff from Kite, as well as new stuff, They Don't Know, and closing with the Ramones I Wanna Be Sedated. She joked around a lot between songs, and was really vastly rowdier than I would ever have expected. Aimee finishes out the three night stand tonight. I taped her on a hideous morning show doing Stupid Thing and Put Me On Top. This should really cap off the week. I met a guy at Mazzy who came down from LA for the show, a big Jane Siberry fan, and he was shocked that he couldn't stump me on any bands because of my great Ecto education. He almost fell over when he talked about seeing that Finnish band recently (is it Vartinna?) and I knew about them. Neal ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 03 Dec 93 22:12:06 CET From: Ilka Heber Subject: Don't get Happy the same present... Hi everybody, Klaus had this brilliant idea that Happy might enjoy getting the new Vollenweider CD as a xmas present. I bought it yesterday. Klaus suggested that I post this to the list so that Happy doesn't end up with piles of that CD... Byeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, Ilka = ) ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 3 Dec 93 14:32:55 PST From: Neal R. Copperman Subject: gaffa bashing I read rec.music.gaffa for the first time in months yesterday, and was quickly reminded why I was so happy to leave that list behind. I admire the fortitude of those of you who wade through it to pass on useful tidbits here. All the standard if-it's-not-Kate-get-out-of-here talk and the ludicrous and intentionally insulting Bjork-bashing note made it a particularly unpleasent visit. I think I'll just keep some old ECTO notes around for when I get bored. A much more pleasant alternative. Neal ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1993 16:45:29 CST From: Subject: More quickies Yes, I'd be interested in the Melissa Ferrick reviews. See Hear records in Chicago is selling the new Cowboy Junkies CD thru Monday for $10.99 cash, a buck more on plastic. They're doing the same with many other titles. WRT the aphorisms about food processors, word processors, workstations, and work, someone ended a post to folk_music with the aphorism "Quit work. Make music." Keep them HGP selections coming, folks :-). Needless to say, scripted intros for me to read on the tape should go straight to me. The Vollenweider CD idea as a present to accompany the HGP tape sounds as good as any, and probably easier to ship than the first idea I had, which was a quantity of homebrewed fuzzy-blue mixed drinkies. :-) Mitch ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1993 20:20:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Suspended In Duct Tape Subject: I'm going to end it all now Hi! Sarah is playing in Philadelphia on a WEDNESDAY. Kate is going to be in New York on a TUESDAY AFTERNOON. I have to work in Connecticut MONDAY THROUGH FRIDAY. What is wrong with this picture??? I think I'll be sick on Tuesday. Yeah, that's it. Deathly ill. Have to go into Manhattan for a miracle cure involving an audience with a goddess. Yeah, that's it. The next Wednesday, I'll have a relapse. That one will send me to a specialist in Philly, where only an audience with another goddess can bring me back from the brink of death. I think there's a real plan forming here... Life really sucks. :P Meredith meth@delphi.com ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1993 21:03:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Suspended In Duct Tape Subject: ATTENTION PIONEER VALLEY-PHILES Hi! Tomorrow night (Saturday, 12/4/93) Big Hat will be performing at the Bay State in Northampton, MA. The next night, The Nields and Knots and Crosses will be at Amherst College. I am attending both events- anybody else going to one or the other? I'll be heading up there all by my little lonesome, and would love to meet up with somebody if I had the chance! E-mail or pick up the phone - my # is (203) 787-3678. Hope to see some ectophiles soon... Meredith meth@delphi.com ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 3 Dec 93 20:18:56 PST From: bear@tcs.com (h.w. neff) Subject: Re: ecto #890 hi. sorry, but i've got to run the risk of missing useful info (e.g. hr/5) and unsub for the while. ttfn, bear. ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 3 Dec 93 21:52:13 PST From: stevev@miser.uoregon.edu (Steve VanDevender) Subject: gaffa bashing Neal R. Copperman writes: > > I read rec.music.gaffa for the first time in months yesterday, and was > quickly reminded why I was so happy to leave that list behind. I > admire the fortitude of those of you who wade through it to pass on > useful tidbits here. All the standard if-it's-not-Kate-get-out-of-here > talk and the ludicrous and intentionally insulting Bjork-bashing note > made it a particularly unpleasent visit. I think I'll just keep some old > ECTO notes around for when I get bored. A much more pleasant alternative. And don't forget, by their standards we're some kind of sappy deliriously happy mailing list because we don't flame each other (even one of my favorite Gaffa posters, Steve Berlin, took a dig at it recently with a pseudo quote "The Happy fandom has no right to bitch -- Ecto motto"). I have never quite figured out _why_ flamefests don't erupt here. It's not like we all agree 100% with each other all the time, but there is the rare common agreement that we won't wantonly insult each other. ======================================================================== From: p.cohen@genie.geis.com Date: Sat, 4 Dec 93 05:54:00 BST Subject: gaffa bashing Bjork-bashing? @@@@@@ @@@@@@ @@ @@ @@ @@@@@@ @@@@@@ @@ @@ @@@@@@ @@ @@ @@ @@ @@ @@ @@ @@ @@ @@ @@ @@ @@ @@ @@ @@@ @@ @@@@@@ @@@@@@ @@ @@ @@ @@ @@ @@ @@@@@@ @@@@@@ @@@@@@ @@ @@ @@ @@ @@ @@ @@ @@ @@ @@ @@ @@ @@ @@@ @@ @@ @@ @@@@@@ @@@@@@ @@@@@@ @@@@@@ @@ @@ @@@@@@ @@ @@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@ 5500 Wissahickon Ave, Apt 512B @@@ @@@ Apt 512B @@@ @@@ Philadelphia, PA 19144 @@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@ P.COHEN@genie.geis.com @@@ 70703.3126@compuserve.com @@@ @@@ PMCOHEN@aol.com @@@ PMCOHEN@delphi.com @@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1993 02:05:26 -0500 (EST) From: HOLLY@umbc2.umbc.edu Subject: message from Michael I wrote a note to Michael Bravo telling him I was glad that Paul got him turned on to Happy, and that I was glad he posted. Then Michael sent me the following: Thanks, Ecto looks like a nice place to be on, great "subject" and great people :) > Can you tell me what it is about St.Petersburg that > is so magical? I've always wanted to visit that city > because of its historical and literary significance, > but now I've been told that it's *magical*, I *really* > want to go visit it! Well, I bet you're expecting that I will say that it is hard to tell or explain, and if you don't , that's what I'll say anyway :) Many foreign tourists never get to see the soul of the city. Of course, they see the finest museums, visit the suburban parks of Petergof, Pushkin and Pavlovsk, maybe eat in some good restaurants, live in 5-star hotels (hmmm, super-expensive, those :)) )... But to feel what the city is you have to do other things... the most correct time to see _the city_ (not the architecture, museums, etc, but the city itself) is the night, be it white nights in the summer or early coming dark in the winter. You can walk the almost-empty Nevsky prospect, crossing the canals and small rivers with the lights reflecting in them, walk along the Neva pavements, climb the walls of St.Peter&Paul fortress and walk around it atop the walls. The most spectacular sight I know is when during some holiday in winter, when it's dark early, they light the Rostral Columns on the arrowhead of Vasilyevski ostrov, and the torches all around the P&P fortress.... I can look at that for hours, no matter how cold it is. I think you get the idea, what I meant by magical. There's also some music, some history. etc etc... You have to see, listen and feel. One thing I can guarantee - if you come to St.Petersburg and see it with your own eyes and not the eyes of a tourist guide, you're not going to forget it in your whole life. P.S. If you feel that this will be interesting to others on Ecto, please mail it in there. Best wishes, -- Michael E. Bravo AKA /\/\ike 7 812 231 3951 (home) The Communication Tube and Tusovka, Inc. mbravo@tctube.spb.su ======================================================================== The ecto archives are on hardees.rutgers.edu in ~ftp/pub/hr. There is an INDEX file explaining what is where. Feel free to send me things you'd like to have added. -- jessica (jessica@ns1.rutgers.edu)