From: owner-dads-yard-digest@smoe.org (dads-yard-digest) To: dads-yard-digest@smoe.org Subject: dads-yard-digest V3 #124 Reply-To: dads-yard@smoe.org Sender: owner-dads-yard-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-dads-yard-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk dads-yard-digest Saturday, September 8 2001 Volume 03 : Number 124 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [dads-yard] What Do You Think? [ssimpson ] Re: [dads-yard] What Do You Think? [j stack ] Re: [dads-yard] What Do You Think? [CampGrrl63@aol.com] [dads-yard] the show in Davis was fun! [CampGrrl63@aol.com] Re: [dads-yard] What Do You Think? [johanna ] Re: [dads-yard] What Do You Think? ["donald.anderson" ] [dads-yard] Catie in Southern NJ [WoodellDC@aol.com] [dads-yard] Petaluma show [Danalee7@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 15:43:58 -0500 From: ssimpson Subject: [dads-yard] What Do You Think? I wrote that I find Catie's latest CD a disappointment. First, I'd like to tip my hat to Catielisters for being open minded enough to let me have that opinion. It's a tribute to Catie that such nice people are attracted to her music. Someone said keep listening. I have done, but, alas, remain disappointed, I suppose especially because it is Catie and I've been a (gushing) fan from early on (when Hear Music promoted "Dandelion"). The only song that I like quite a bit on "Shirt" is "Walk Along the Highway." I like the lyrics of "Bicycle Named Heaven" and "Hush," but then those recorded songs don't particularly register. Maybe the explanation lies in her line "Love and happiness ruined my ambition" because I find a cloying and navel-gazing quality that belies Catie's earlier strength. Maybe she needs to work without Jimmy Ryan. Maybe he's the obstacle. So many women performers seem to get co-opted by men in what a psychologist friend of mine says is co-dependency. One sees that a lot here in the South: most recently, the very talented Stacey Earle's announcement that she's switching in performance to a duo status with her husband Mark, who seems a very, very nice guy but is a lame performer except as a sideman. Christine Albert, now part of "Albert and Gage." Iris Dement's having let her (ex)-husband join her in songwriting. Tish Hinojosa's letting one of her guitar players continually put her down on stage because of her limited guitar skills. Carol Elliott's seeming to take a backseat to now-husband Buddy Mondlock (Buddy's brilliant, of course, but he and Carol almost work in different idioms). I see it as sexual politics; probably someone out there could provide a larger, better referenced view. I think many women folk performers tend to defer to guys who see facility in playing an instrument as the real end (there must be some pretty profound differences psychologically in how a woman and a man view bringing sound from a guitar, thinking of it as Freud or Picasso would see the instrument). I'm not a male basher--I just see those patterns with some people in our culture. I think folk artists in general tend to have a crisis when they achieve enough success that they're faced with session players and the temptations of overproduction (again, very male dominated, a male ethos), moving almost literally from a bedroom to a studio. Kudos to people like Dar Williams who slayed that particular dragon. Catie doesn't seem to be moving ahead artistically in the way that, say, Dar and Lucy Kaplansky are moving ahead, I believe because they've done better against such odds and pressures. When I was in college (years ago!), someone who taught a women's lit class said that the wrong criteria (namely, men's criteria) were brought to bear on women's work. At the time, I was dubious. But as I've grown older and am more and more drawn to women's work, especially in music and literature, I more and more agree. Women singer-songwriters just aren't given the respect they deserve. Bob Dylan the genius, not Joni Mitchell. Greg Brown, not Eliza Gilkyson. The Big Noise about Jonathan Franzen's new novelThomas Pynchon like! Proof that serious writing isn't dead! Anyway, I'd hate to think of a gay woman who worked in Boston as subject to all those forces, but perhaps it's possible, perhaps it's inevitable. Perhaps some of you understand better than I what I'm trying to say here. I couldn't care less if the women singer-songwriters I love are hot guitar players. I want to hear their voices, their minds. That's all wool gathering, I guess. I don't know much if anything about Catie and her creative process. Suzanne Simpson Instructor/Senior Editor Section of Atherosclerosis Mail Station A-601 (Room A654a for courier deliveries) Department of Medicine Baylor College of Medicine 6565 Fannin Street Houston, TX 77030, USA Phone 713-798-8919 Fax 713-798-5134 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 13:58:12 -0700 (PDT) From: j stack Subject: Re: [dads-yard] What Do You Think? Hi all. I've been listening to "shirt" alot. Not because I'm trying to get used to it, but because I enjoy it and am not disappointed. It is a different sound than "crash course in roses", but I guess I expect changes with new music. take care, joan - --- ssimpson wrote: > I wrote that I find Catie's latest CD a > disappointment. First, I'd like to > tip my hat to Catielisters for being open minded > enough to let me have that > opinion. It's a tribute to Catie that such nice > people are attracted to her > music. > > Someone said keep listening. I have done, but, > alas, remain disappointed, I > suppose especially because it is Catie and I've been > a (gushing) fan from > early on (when Hear Music promoted "Dandelion"). > The only song that I like > quite a bit on "Shirt" is "Walk Along the Highway." > I like the lyrics of > "Bicycle Named Heaven" and "Hush," but then those > recorded songs don't > particularly register. > > Maybe the explanation lies in her line "Love and > happiness ruined my ambition" > because I find a cloying and navel-gazing quality > that belies Catie's earlier > strength. > > Maybe she needs to work without Jimmy Ryan. Maybe > he's the obstacle. So many > women performers seem to get co-opted by men in what > a psychologist friend of > mine says is co-dependency. One sees that a lot > here in the South: most > recently, the very talented Stacey Earle's > announcement that she's switching > in performance to a duo status with her husband > Mark, who seems a very, very > nice guy but is a lame performer except as a > sideman. Christine Albert, now > part of "Albert and Gage." Iris Dement's having let > her (ex)-husband join her > in songwriting. Tish Hinojosa's letting one of her > guitar players continually > put her down on stage because of her limited guitar > skills. Carol Elliott's > seeming to take a backseat to now-husband Buddy > Mondlock (Buddy's brilliant, > of course, but he and Carol almost work in different > idioms). I see it as > sexual politics; probably someone out there could > provide a larger, better > referenced view. I think many women folk performers > tend to defer to guys who > see facility in playing an instrument as the real > end (there must be some > pretty profound differences psychologically in how a > woman and a man view > bringing sound from a guitar, thinking of it as > Freud or Picasso would see the > instrument). I'm not a male basher--I just see > those patterns with some > people in our culture. I think folk artists in > general tend to have a crisis > when they achieve enough success that they're faced > with session players and > the temptations of overproduction (again, very male > dominated, a male ethos), > moving almost literally from a bedroom to a studio. > Kudos to people like Dar > Williams who slayed that particular dragon. Catie > doesn't seem to be moving > ahead artistically in the way that, say, Dar and > Lucy Kaplansky are moving > ahead, I believe because they've done better against > such odds and pressures. > When I was in college (years ago!), someone who > taught a women's lit class > said that the wrong criteria (namely, men's > criteria) were brought to bear on > women's work. At the time, I was dubious. But as > I've grown older and am > more and more drawn to women's work, especially in > music and literature, I > more and more agree. Women singer-songwriters just > aren't given the respect > they deserve. Bob Dylan the genius, not Joni > Mitchell. Greg Brown, not Eliza > Gilkyson. The Big Noise about Jonathan Franzen's > new novelThomas Pynchon > like! Proof that serious writing isn't dead! > Anyway, I'd hate to think of a > gay woman who worked in Boston as subject to all > those forces, but perhaps > it's possible, perhaps it's inevitable. Perhaps > some of you understand better > than I what I'm trying to say here. I couldn't > care less if the women > singer-songwriters I love are hot guitar players. I > want to hear their > voices, their minds. > > That's all wool gathering, I guess. I don't know > much if anything about Catie > and her creative process. > > Suzanne Simpson > Instructor/Senior Editor > Section of Atherosclerosis > Mail Station A-601 > (Room A654a for courier deliveries) > Department of Medicine > Baylor College of Medicine > 6565 Fannin Street > Houston, TX 77030, USA > Phone 713-798-8919 > Fax 713-798-5134 Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 18:47:25 EDT From: CampGrrl63@aol.com Subject: Re: [dads-yard] What Do You Think? I would like to acknowledge Suzanne's comments and offer some validation of the "male corruption" concept in the music business in general. I have many women friends in the music business...predominately independant artists trying to succeed in the male-dominated industry...that are constantly trying to fight that battle. There are many women out there who suck up ... in a lot of ways ... and "give them what they want". There are those that achieve success by doing that, although their skills as a musician and songwriter leave a lot to be desired! It's extremely frustrating for those who refuse...and are brilliant musicians who get little to no credit or recognition they very much deserve. This whole topic is a HUGE issue for women in music. However... I, too, have been an ardent admirer of Catie's work for many years. I had the wonderful opportunity of doing a wee bit of songwriting study with Catie several years ago and got just a little insight into her personal songwriting processes and frustrations with the industry. I believe that Catie fully owns her own creations...but likes working collaboratively as well. She writes wonderful, emotional, thought-provoking lyrics and some beautiful melodies. But she loves to have fun in her work and music too...and I think "Shirt" shows all different aspects of love, emotion, and musicality. She's also a drummer...and you can hear that interest in her songs as well. Jimmy is an excellent musician and obviously brings his own perspective to the work, but I don't believe he has the kind of effect on Catie's work that you're implying. I speak to that specifically with "Shirt"...she co-produced the album with a very successful, woman producer. Catie very much had input on how these songs and this album sounded Let's face it...I know that when you're with a record company, they expect to have albums that sell...so there is the expectation to have catchy tunes. Catie has had to deal with that too. I specifically remember her talking about "Soulfully"...she wrote that song to meet those very demands Guardian placed upon her. She also talked about how much she liked the song, even if not for the reasons she initially had to write it. I'm sure these same type of concerns are always part of record producing...again, a male-dominated business. So...I don't really agree with the idea that Jimmy has had an undesired male influence on her music. Catie very much respects and likes working with Jimmy...I have never seen him disrespect her in anyway - verbally, musically, etc. - in any show I've seen...and I've seen as many as I can possibly get to here in Northern California. They have fun working together...and that really seems to come across on stage. So...that's what I think! : ) Heather ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 20:00:53 EDT From: CampGrrl63@aol.com Subject: [dads-yard] the show in Davis was fun! So now that you may or may not have read my previous thoughts...about Catie, here are a few more about the show I just on Wed. 9/5 in Davis, CA. It was great! : ) Mary Gauthier opened with some great songwriting and ...how'd they put it...something like "down home musings!" I'd never seen her perform before but have heard lots about her. Probably the flavor of the music doesn't call to me as much...but she's got some pretty powerful lyrics and a great storytelling presence. She was fun to watch. Then Catie and Jimmy took the stage. Now, the Palms Playhouse is, quite literally, a barn converted to a great little performance space. Catie described it as being one of those types of dream spaces where you could put on your own little play for friends and family...and proceeded to share her "performances" as a kid in the living room. Funny...I could totally relate! It had been two years since they played there last ( I was there too ) and that was right after Jimmy had gotten in the car accident and Catie hired Kris Delmhorst and Sean Staples as her replacement band. It was sad for Jimmy (who's doing just peachy) but that's how I got to hear Kris for the first time...and now I love her too! : ) They played a few tunes...Kiss That Counted, Bicycle Named Heaven, Patience, something else...then you could tell Catie changed her set list and did Troubled Mind - I may be missing another song or two somewhere, didn't write the set list down. Then she just stopped, blew off the set list, and asked if there was anything we wanted to hear. You ever have that moment that the choices are just so many that you can't come up with one?! So I sit there trying to pick one as other folks are yelling out their choices...Magnolia Street, Elizabeth, Radical, Do Unto Others...and more. Catie told us how she and Jimmy had just been talking how they'd not performed Do Unto Others in years...so that's what they decided to play. With the very intimate and casual feeling the of place, her comment was along the lines of "if we can't mess up here...where can we mess up!?" So, after asking for assurances from the audience that we knew the words if she needed help, away they went. With few glitches and micropauses they di d just fine! The songs she DIDN'T play from "Shirt" were Run, My Shirt Looks Good On You, Don't Lay Down, and Hush. Of course, she and Mary sang Sugar Cane after explaining the "correct" way to pronounce Iberville. She also played Magnolia Street, and - oh, I don't know, I'm sure I'm missing a couple. Over all, it was a lot of fun. A relatively small crowd and a real relaxed feeling. It was a lot of fun for me to be able to see her again - I had to miss her shows the last time around. It's funny...as we can see on the CD, Catie's letting her hair grow and she had it back with some leopard print hair band. Kind of funny, I'm so used to seeing her with her short hair...but this look was cute too! I forgot to kid her about that and her blue toenails! ; ) Looking forward to the show in SF on Saturday and then Sunday at Villa Montalvo with Tom Rush's Club 47 group (Tom Rush, Janis Ian, David Bromberg, & Catie). Missing tonight's opener for Janis Ian...but I know I'll see her again as she brings the full band back through in a couple of months! Until next time... Heather ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 20:15:34 -0400 From: johanna Subject: Re: [dads-yard] What Do You Think? > Maybe the explanation lies in her line "Love and happiness ruined my ambition" > because I find a cloying and navel-gazing quality that belies Catie's earlier > strength. heh--funny that you mention that. i LOVE that line, but as soon as i heard it, i thought, "someone's going to use that in a negative review of the album & say 'it sure did!'". i like being right once in a while. ;) well, to each their own. i like "shirt" a lot, but my favorite remains "truth from lies." a few ppl have expressed strong preference for her self-titled album, which i actually find relatively weak. *shrugs* i'm still really excited that i have tix to go see her @ the end of the month. i hope she plays a lot of old songs along w/the new. for those of you who have seen her enough to know: does she often play "you can always be gone"? that is, i think, my fave of hers & has quite a lot of meaning to me. i'm crossing my fingers! johanna http://free.freespeech.org/sugoi oh it's ashes to ashes but always the ocean... -dar williams ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 01:07:02 +0100 From: "donald.anderson" Subject: Re: [dads-yard] What Do You Think? Excuse me , but what a load of rubbish this seems to me Let's not try and psychoanalyse things to death - This is music , very good music , let's all enjoy it please and get away from this "deep thinking" nonsense . Catie is a treasure , a talented songwriter and performer and I would like to say that I appreciate all of Catie's albums , and it seems to me she's going from strength to strength - The new album is brilliant ! Give her a break , please Donald - ----- Original Message ----- From: ssimpson To: Sent: Friday, September 07, 2001 9:43 PM Subject: [dads-yard] What Do You Think? > I wrote that I find Catie's latest CD a disappointment. First, I'd like to > tip my hat to Catielisters for being open minded enough to let me have that > opinion. It's a tribute to Catie that such nice people are attracted to her > music. > > Someone said keep listening. I have done, but, alas, remain disappointed, I > suppose especially because it is Catie and I've been a (gushing) fan from > early on (when Hear Music promoted "Dandelion"). The only song that I like > quite a bit on "Shirt" is "Walk Along the Highway." I like the lyrics of > "Bicycle Named Heaven" and "Hush," but then those recorded songs don't > particularly register. > > Maybe the explanation lies in her line "Love and happiness ruined my ambition" > because I find a cloying and navel-gazing quality that belies Catie's earlier > strength. > > Maybe she needs to work without Jimmy Ryan. Maybe he's the obstacle. So many > women performers seem to get co-opted by men in what a psychologist friend of > mine says is co-dependency. One sees that a lot here in the South: most > recently, the very talented Stacey Earle's announcement that she's switching > in performance to a duo status with her husband Mark, who seems a very, very > nice guy but is a lame performer except as a sideman. Christine Albert, now > part of "Albert and Gage." Iris Dement's having let her (ex)-husband join her > in songwriting. Tish Hinojosa's letting one of her guitar players continually > put her down on stage because of her limited guitar skills. Carol Elliott's > seeming to take a backseat to now-husband Buddy Mondlock (Buddy's brilliant, > of course, but he and Carol almost work in different idioms). I see it as > sexual politics; probably someone out there could provide a larger, better > referenced view. I think many women folk performers tend to defer to guys who > see facility in playing an instrument as the real end (there must be some > pretty profound differences psychologically in how a woman and a man view > bringing sound from a guitar, thinking of it as Freud or Picasso would see the > instrument). I'm not a male basher--I just see those patterns with some > people in our culture. I think folk artists in general tend to have a crisis > when they achieve enough success that they're faced with session players and > the temptations of overproduction (again, very male dominated, a male ethos), > moving almost literally from a bedroom to a studio. Kudos to people like Dar > Williams who slayed that particular dragon. Catie doesn't seem to be moving > ahead artistically in the way that, say, Dar and Lucy Kaplansky are moving > ahead, I believe because they've done better against such odds and pressures. > When I was in college (years ago!), someone who taught a women's lit class > said that the wrong criteria (namely, men's criteria) were brought to bear on > women's work. At the time, I was dubious. But as I've grown older and am > more and more drawn to women's work, especially in music and literature, I > more and more agree. Women singer-songwriters just aren't given the respect > they deserve. Bob Dylan the genius, not Joni Mitchell. Greg Brown, not Eliza > Gilkyson. The Big Noise about Jonathan Franzen's new novelThomas Pynchon > like! Proof that serious writing isn't dead! Anyway, I'd hate to think of a > gay woman who worked in Boston as subject to all those forces, but perhaps > it's possible, perhaps it's inevitable. Perhaps some of you understand better > than I what I'm trying to say here. I couldn't care less if the women > singer-songwriters I love are hot guitar players. I want to hear their > voices, their minds. > > That's all wool gathering, I guess. I don't know much if anything about Catie > and her creative process. > > Suzanne Simpson > Instructor/Senior Editor > Section of Atherosclerosis > Mail Station A-601 > (Room A654a for courier deliveries) > Department of Medicine > Baylor College of Medicine > 6565 Fannin Street > Houston, TX 77030, USA > Phone 713-798-8919 > Fax 713-798-5134 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 21:22:19 EDT From: KalaKala@aol.com Subject: [dads-yard] Shirt CD -- gets two buttons up! hey y'all, i had the opportunity to listen to Shirt a few times on a spectacular drive to Aspen, Colorado. i have to say i love this new album! yes, it's different from her other albums, definitely more of a "band" sound versus singer-songwriter. but, i think it contains the catie hallmark of being very well crafted. her music and lyrics are carefully weaved to create a desired emotional state. i've noticed a Neil Young influence on some of her songs -- like "Don't Lay Down." Neil Young said on one of his albums, "when i get big, i'm going to get an electric guitar". perhaps catie has gotten big? don't you love the emotion when she sings the line, "my shirt looks good on you." i tell you what, i'm definitely yelling out that line sometime. i don't think Catie will mind. perhaps my favorite song on the album is "Bicycle Named Heaven". i love when she slides her voice (i'd call it croning, but i think that word went out with Bing Crosby). i also really like the male harmony vocals on "Patience." and for those of us that crave the angst-filled catie relationship songs, i think "Now" fulfills those needs. Shirt has earned a coveted CD spot in my green Subaru Forester. i hope you all enjoy it too! - -- karen folgate ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 22:17:14 -0400 From: johanna Subject: Re: [dads-yard] What Do You Think? > Excuse me , but what a load of rubbish this seems to me > > Let's not try and psychoanalyse things to death - This is music , very good > music , let's all enjoy it please and get away from this "deep thinking" > nonsense . wow. looking into the meaning of music is part of what i enjoy about it. doesn't seem like rubbish to me. while i often do like music w/a frivolous meaning (or none @ all), i would not enjoy the music i like the way i do w/o "psychoanalyzing" it. someone's trying to state why she doesn't like catie's new album so much--while a lot of us disagree w/her, she's entitled to explain--no need to condescend. johanna http://free.freespeech.org/sugoi oh it's ashes to ashes but always the ocean... -dar williams ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 23:20:14 EDT From: WoodellDC@aol.com Subject: [dads-yard] Catie in Southern NJ Hey, everyone, I saw on the WXPN site that Catie will be onstage at 2 p.m. in Collingswood, NJ, for the WXPN Newton Colony Festival on Saturday 9/15. Someone else is listed for 3, so that means probably a pretty short set for Catie. Oh, well. As for the new cd, I've had it on twice since I got it, but mostly when I am busy with something at the same time, so I am not closely paying attention. And I am still getting a feel for it. I'll be eager to share my opinions, once I form them. Deb ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 04:24:06 EDT From: Danalee7@aol.com Subject: [dads-yard] Petaluma show Saw Catie tonite who was in great sweet voice- loved the show even tho it was more the new songs with a few faves mixed in-{ I love the old ones the most of course, like old friends}- I have heard the new CD enough to enjoy hearing them all live. I was thinking about calling out for my faves, like Wolf, Dad's Yard, Magnolia Street, and Troubled Mind- that one she did without any advice from me -LOL- but I used my famous restraint and didn't, thinking that we all need to hear these new ones live. She and Jimmy work well together and he adds a lot to her sound I think. I would miss him if he were not there. I didn't miss the drums tho. She mentioned her "long" hair- which does really look good. She opened for Janis Ian who is like an Icon from the sixties for me- I have only seen her once before back when I was in high school, maybe 17 myself- and she was 15 or maybe 14 - before Society's Child came out even. I loved her voice and songs then and she is still just as awesome. Any of you younger folks out there who do not know her music should really look up her CDs. All of them. She is an awesome guitarist as well as great songwriter and singer. I never thought I would see her again and here she even shook my hand! Masaki and I will be seeing Catie and Jimmy tomorrow night in San Franscisco and now maybe I need to think about making it to the Winery for Sunday. I had to go alone tonite and I was thinking about missing my old concert buddy Elaine, who would most definitely have loved this concert. Happy Birthday Elaine. Dana in Berkeley ------------------------------ End of dads-yard-digest V3 #124 *******************************