From: owner-cranlist-digest@smoe.org (cranlist-digest) To: cranlist-digest@smoe.org Subject: cranlist-digest V3 #52 Reply-To: cranlist@smoe.org Sender: owner-cranlist-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-cranlist-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk cranlist-digest Wednesday, March 29 2000 Volume 03 : Number 052 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: %Cran: Cran song rewrote [CranTrader@aol.com] Re: %Cran: Cran song rewrote [Mtbiker53@aol.com] Re: %Cran: Cran song rewrote [CranFan90@aol.com] Re: %Cran: Cran song rewrote [CranFan90@aol.com] Re: %Cran: Cran song rewrote + Title new Cran-album? ["Ralph O'Neills" ] %Cran: Have I got MTV News for you!!! ["The Vine" ] %Cran: Defense of Capitalism [Mtbiker53@aol.com] Re: %Cran: C R A N B E R R I E S [Mtbiker53@aol.com] %Cran: Album title-suggestions ["Ralph O'Neills" ] Re: %Cran: Have I got MTV News for you!!! ["Sorcerer" ] %Cran: politics...hah [YeatsGrave@aol.com] Re: %Cran: Cran song rewrote (response to george) [YeatsGrave@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 00:23:28 EST From: CranTrader@aol.com Subject: Re: %Cran: Cran song rewrote hi Jean Francois, im not gonna bitch you out or anything, but when you write something like this, which i find a bit offensive myself, how can you NOT expect people to react? its kinda like saying "im gonna tell you to fuck off, but dont respond unless you have a legititimate reasn of why i shouldnt tell you to fuck off". it seems like youre telling all of us Americans that youll list the reasons why you think we suck, without giving a reason, but if we want to respond to you, youd prefer we dont unless WE have a reason. again, im not writing this to fight or argue with you, cause you and i have been cool in the past, did the berryfest 99 thing (hope we can do it again sometime!), but the above statement is just the feeling i get. in my eyes, you have every right to express yourself, and i also have every right to respond to it. in the words of a great american "i may not like what you have to say, but i will fight to the death for your right to say it" -which i totally agree with: i dont like what youre saying, but i think you have the right to say it, and think it. but on the email, you didnt give any reasons WHY you dont like capitalism, not that you have to, im just curious thats all. anyway, im not looking to argue with anyone, but just looking for debate i guess. -zombieguide ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 02:21:17 EST From: Mtbiker53@aol.com Subject: Re: %Cran: Cran song rewrote Can someone (preferably a socialist) please tell me why the rich should be penalized for being rich or those of ability or good buisness persons be scorned for being thus? It is not my money nor anyone elses. If a rich person squanders his or her money on foolish things (i.e. 10th sports car) it there problem not ours; make your own fortune, then show them how to manage money. If you want to argue, read atlas shrugged by ayn rand. peace, george ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 02:27:28 EST From: CranFan90@aol.com Subject: Re: %Cran: Cran song rewrote i definately have to agree with george. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 02:28:45 EST From: CranFan90@aol.com Subject: Re: %Cran: Cran song rewrote Being an AMERICAN myself, I find CranTrader to be correct. Jean-Francois...put yourself in Dolores shoes. Would she say that???? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 11:04:08 +0200 From: "Ralph O'Neills" Subject: Re: %Cran: Cran song rewrote + Title new Cran-album? Hi, I like what you did with the lyrics Jean-François. Although I kinda believe capitalism (with a strong social security-network as it's done in the Netherlands) works I think that everyone has the right to speak out their mind. If someone else reads it and says it sucks before even really thinking about it I think that's pretty short-sigthed. You don't have to agree with it, but at least try to realise that people differ in opinions and respect that. Just as I hope my rewrite of the "Fee Fi Fo"-lyrics (remember the vegetarian-discussion?) did, I think that "shocking" lyrics like this will help people to think about subjects in a way that they didn't do before. Just because you're happy with capitalism doesn't mean that it may not work in other situations/countries... Not trying to offend anyone, just looking from a different angle... It looks pretty ok from here... Anyway, trying to get not too much off-topic: Any suggestions for a title for the new Cran-album? Ralph O'Neills info@noviomagum.com P.S. Has anyone heard the new Pink Floyd-album yet? I think it's cool! :) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 06:54:06 -0500 From: =?iso-8859-1?B?amVhbqZmcmFu529pcw==?= Subject: Re: %Cran: Cran song rewrote (response to CranTrader) Hey there! What I meant by "don't respond unless you have arguments" is when I asked on this list if anyone knew if the Crans had socialist/marxist values, I got a lot of stupid e-mails that had one line. Most of them were like "You stupid communist" and that was all. So I simply don't want people e-mailing that. I want people to e-mail me (even if they like capitalism) with arguments. Not just insult me. That doesn't say me what you think. I'M not saying why Americaisn suck. Most Americains are very nice people. But some are really selfish people to (like you can find in Canada, France, England, etc). The reason I am against capitalism is beacuse its a form a facism. You try to completly elliminate the poor. bye bye jean¦françois ²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²² ²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²² Jean-François Goyette (Fluoberry) e-mail me at dbgoyet@videotron.ca or ICQ me at 43408869 Cranberries Waltzing Back website: http://pages.infinit.net/fluo1 "To hell with what your thinking, and to hell with your narrow mind. Your so distracted from the real thing. You should leave your life behind." Dolores O'Riordan of The Cranberries ²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²² ²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²² - -----Original Message----- From: CranTrader@aol.com To: dbgoyet@videotron.ca ; TheCranberries@Onelist ; Ridiculous Thoughts mailling list Date: 28 of mars,2000 00:23 Subject: Re: %Cran: Cran song rewrote >hi Jean Francois, >im not gonna bitch you out or anything, but when you write something like >this, which i find a bit offensive myself, how can you NOT expect people to >react? its kinda like saying "im gonna tell you to fuck off, but dont respond >unless you have a legititimate reasn of why i shouldnt tell you to fuck off". >it seems like youre telling all of us Americans that youll list the reasons >why you think we suck, without giving a reason, but if we want to respond to >you, youd prefer we dont unless WE have a reason. > >again, im not writing this to fight or argue with you, cause you and i have >been cool in the past, did the berryfest 99 thing (hope we can do it again >sometime!), but the above statement is just the feeling i get. in my eyes, >you have every right to express yourself, and i also have every right to >respond to it. in the words of a great american "i may not like what you have >to say, but i will fight to the death for your right to say it" -which i >totally agree with: i dont like what youre saying, but i think you have the >right to say it, and think it. but on the email, you didnt give any reasons >WHY you dont like capitalism, not that you have to, im just curious thats >all. anyway, im not looking to argue with anyone, but just looking for debate >i guess. -zombieguide ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 07:06:31 -0500 From: =?iso-8859-1?B?amVhbqZmcmFu529pcw==?= Subject: Re: %Cran: Cran song rewrote (response to george) Hey there! What's the problem with capitalism? Let me just put it this way. 20% of the world's population consummes 80% of what there is to consumate. Capitalism is fascism, you try to eliminate the poor. If you think for instance Bill Gates, he has 100 billion dollards but he still wants more. He must have like 20 cars while people are living in the street and while someone every 3.6 seconds oh hunger. The rich are becoming richer and the poor are becoming poorer. Their will be no more middle class and the poor will be the slaves of the rich (aka corporate slavery). Someone with to much money and that doesn't have good intentions is bad. They will do anything just to make a buck and that don't care about anyone else. You were saying that the poor should make their own fortune. How? Large multi-naional componies will eliminate you **cough MIcrosoft's Monopoly cough** The bougeoisie (don,t know if that's written right) have it nice will others die. That's not ok bye bye jean¦françois ²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²² ²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²² Jean-François Goyette (Fluoberry) e-mail me at dbgoyet@videotron.ca or ICQ me at 43408869 Cranberries Waltzing Back website: http://pages.infinit.net/fluo1 "To hell with what your thinking, and to hell with your narrow mind. Your so distracted from the real thing. You should leave your life behind." Dolores O'Riordan of The Cranberries ²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²² ²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²² - -----Original Message----- From: Mtbiker53@aol.com To: cranlist@smoe.org Date: 28 of mars,2000 02:25 Subject: Re: %Cran: Cran song rewrote >Can someone (preferably a socialist) please tell me why the rich should be >penalized for being rich or those of ability or good buisness persons be >scorned for being thus? It is not my money nor anyone elses. If a rich person >squanders his or her money on foolish things (i.e. 10th sports car) it there >problem not ours; make your own fortune, then show them how to manage money. > >If you want to argue, read atlas shrugged by ayn rand. > >peace, >george ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 07:22:28 -0500 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?jean=A6fran=E7ois?= Subject: %Cran: Re: Cran song rewrote (response to Stefanczyk) Hi there! no I didn't see the Oscars. But I have to say that what Wajda said has some thruth and some ingnorance in it. Communism as it was imagined by Karl Marx was corrupted. The only 2 places were I think that someone really did a good job with communism was Lennin (in the beginin of Russia) and in Cuba. But then again, it wasn't like Marx imagined it. The real communism was never really tried out and most coutries that call(ed) themselves a communist or socialist country don't really have any Marxist values left. The leaders were corrupted by power. bye bye jean?françois ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????? Jean-François Goyette (Fluoberry) e-mail me at dbgoyet@videotron.ca or ICQ me at 43408869 Cranberries Waltzing Back website: http://pages.infinit.net/fluo1 "To hell with what your thinking, and to hell with your narrow mind. Your so distracted from the real thing. You should leave your life behind." Dolores O'Riordan of The Cranberries ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????? - -----Original Message----- From: Stefanczyk To: The Cranberries Mailing List Date: 28 of mars,2000 06:54 Subject: Re: [TheCranberries] Cran song rewrote From: Stefanczyk First of all young man, I'm not going to call you "Marxist bastard", because it's not polite(It's not polite to use the word "ass" in any sense as well). Second thing, I hope you watched the Oscars Ceremony last Sunday(no matter what your attitude is to this show). There was one special Oscar for the director from country(Poland) Andrzej Wajda who's managed to express deeply how pissing the communism was. Well, try to watch some of his movies and then maybe you'll see what the socialism (or communism) really is/was. They don't lie or exaggerate the matter. Anyway, think a while... Matt P.S. By the way, has anyone seen Wajda's movies? Take care. *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 27.03.00 at 16:55 jean¦françois wrote: >From: =?iso-8859-1?B?amVhbqZmcmFu529pcw==?= >Hello there peepsters! >I was in class today and I was really bored out of my mind so I started to >rewrite the lyrics to "Not Sorry". It's kinda like an ode to >anti-capitalism. >If your pissed by the lyrics of the song and you're only going to e-mail me >something like "You marxist bastard", I recomend that you print out your >e-mail and then shoove it up your ass in a quick pain-free motion. If on >the other hand, you have an opinion and your willing to share it with me >(even if you think that capitalism is the best thing sincer cranberry >juice), I will be happy to read it. Just stay polite and have some actual >arguments. I'm saying this beacuse when I asked if the band were >socialists, I got a lot of shit from some crap-heads from this group that >sent me e-mails without any arguments of why they oppsed and they wre just >plain mean. >Anyways here goes, Its probebly not as great as the original lyrics but I >did my best. >You keep on making millions in a day >And you're not sorry if they died beacuse of you >We will keep on going to Seattle again >And we will win and kill capitalism >We're not sorry for the domages their is >And shame for beeing pupets of the capitalists >We wont resing beacuse >You lie and they die and they cry, and they cry, and they cry >You deserve to die >And no one will cry >We shall not resing, not resing, not resing >We do everything to end this non-sense >And why should we care if you can't afford a 10th sports car >You don't care about the people that are poor >But will will revolutionize, not capitalize >You get your billions by the money you save >By exploiting the over-seas >And we're not sorry if we do detest you >We wont resing beacuse you lie and they die and they cry >You deserve to die >And no one will cry >We shall not resing, not resing, not resing >You lie and they die and they cry, and they cry, and they cry >bye bye >jean¦françois - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Good friends, school spirit, hair-dos you'd like to forget. Classmates.com has them all. And with 4.4 million alumni already registered, there's a good chance you'll find your friends here: http://click.egroups.com/1/2623/7/_/493073/_/954244455/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ +Post message: TheCranberries@onelist.com +Subscribe: TheCranberries-subscribe@onelist.com +Unsubscribe: TheCranberries-unsubscribe@onelist.com +List owner: TheCranberries-owner@onelist.com +DO NOT INCLUDE THIS TRAILER IN REPLIES TO THE LIST! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Mar 100 15:10:02 +0200 (MET DST) From: Francois Gibello Subject: %Cran: C R A N B E R R I E S > Hi Jean Francois, > > You wanted long mail and opinion so here it goes. I guess > that I don't really give a damn about capitalism or > communism or let say marxism, which is definitely better > that the communism we have seen during last century in russia. > > Whatever...I don't trust any politician anymore because I don't > think they are quick enough to answer to the right questions > and give practictal solutions to problems of our society, and > instead they always have to argue about old politicals concept > that I consider really out of fashion > . > Nevertheless, I just wanted to say that I have been on this list > for more than 6 years now, and I know exactly what your mail is > going to start...a flame war. Sometimes I hate that people don't > know about something called The Netiquette. Sure free speech > is a good thing. You can write what you want, this is the point. > But most of us on this very list are cooncerned by Cranberries > music, and don't want to be flooded with others mail than > cranberries related mails. Well this is just my two cents. > What george said was really wise and I agree to that. But you > should remember that there is one guy over there, the name is > Greg who IS actually paying for this mailing list. If you want > to talk politics,, or to be precise Capitalism VS Marxism, > Fine, just create a forum somewhere else and invite any > members of The ridiculous mailing list there to talk politics. > > Personaly, I am not mad at you you wrote what you wrote, but > try to remember that this is a cranberries related list in > the first place... > > Francois ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 18:51:08 GMT From: "The Vine" Subject: %Cran: Have I got MTV News for you!!! Alright, I am gonna apologize for my explicit language at forehand, but I just have to get this off my chest.... THOSE F#$%CKING BASTARDS AT MTV!!!! Remember we started to ask MTV New to play the You and Me video?? Well, here's the rather insolent reply I received from them a couple of minutes ago: >Hey, > >Sorry - but we can't play the new Cranberries clip as music programming >don't think the live-clip is of a quality which fits our channel ... >Anyway the clip has been out some two months - so you wouldn't have seen >it by now on MTV:New anyway. Sorry, > >Thanks for your feedback, > >Jr >/MTV:New Those stupid @sses!!!! Anyhow, I find it hard to keep hold of myself, but I am going to resist the urge to reply to him and flame big time as I am doing right now because I don't want to make things worse anyway. So even though this really pisses me off, I am going to stay rather polite about it, otherwise we maybe give the Crans a bad image towards MTV and they won't play any of their songs anymore...*sigh* The good news is that they'll probably put the video on the upcoming DVD, at least that's what I understood Fergal was saying? Anyway... for those of you who are pissed off too but would like to have an adult conversation with mtv about this, without flaming or anything, but with arguments why they should broadcast the crans (millions of arguments to think of, they are just brilliant for one thing!) I can give you the guys' email address. Bye for now, Jessica ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 12:29:18 PST From: "Alex Kraus" Subject: Re: %Cran: Cran song rewrote Ummm... that quote was by Francois Marie Arouet, aka Voltaire, a French revolutionist of the late 1700's. -Alex - ----Original Message Follows---- From: CranTrader@aol.com To: dbgoyet@videotron.ca, thecranberries@onelist.com (TheCranberries@Onelist), cranlist@smoe.org (Ridiculous Thoughts mailling list) Subject: Re: %Cran: Cran song rewrote Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 00:23:28 EST hi Jean Francois, im not gonna bitch you out or anything, but when you write something like this, which i find a bit offensive myself, how can you NOT expect people to react? its kinda like saying "im gonna tell you to fuck off, but dont respond unless you have a legititimate reasn of why i shouldnt tell you to fuck off". it seems like youre telling all of us Americans that youll list the reasons why you think we suck, without giving a reason, but if we want to respond to you, youd prefer we dont unless WE have a reason. again, im not writing this to fight or argue with you, cause you and i have been cool in the past, did the berryfest 99 thing (hope we can do it again sometime!), but the above statement is just the feeling i get. in my eyes, you have every right to express yourself, and i also have every right to respond to it. in the words of a great american "i may not like what you have to say, but i will fight to the death for your right to say it" -which i totally agree with: i dont like what youre saying, but i think you have the right to say it, and think it. but on the email, you didnt give any reasons WHY you dont like capitalism, not that you have to, im just curious thats all. anyway, im not looking to argue with anyone, but just looking for debate i guess. -zombieguide ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 15:35:07 EST From: Mtbiker53@aol.com Subject: %Cran: Defense of Capitalism You didn't answer my question, why are rich people bad for making money? You asked me how the poor can make their own fortune. Well in the USA there are plenty of oppurtunities to get ahead (free-schooling, welfare, etc.). Capitalism porvide the best moivation to get ahead, because there hard work is rewarded. For example, Bill Gates started his company in a garage, and now he has a ton of money. I have read the Communist Manifesto and at one time was a memeber of the IL Socialist party. However, I realised that socialism does not provide the incentive nor the oppurtunity to live the best life possible, because there is no reward of effort. You mention that poor countries could not get ahead, perhaps if they had there chains removed (i.e. were free to pursue what they want) and were able to get ahead by hard work, then maybe we would see them rise above their current situation. Anyway, I'm not trying to be offensive, just exercising my 1st amendment right. peace, george P.S. I loved your rewrite jean|françois, just as i loved the rewrite of fe-fi-fo, it shows a good imagination. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 15:38:15 EST From: Mtbiker53@aol.com Subject: Re: %Cran: C R A N B E R R I E S you are absolutely right my friend. however, it is nice to give the list a kick in the ass every once in a while. peace, george ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 22:59:05 +0200 From: "Ralph O'Neills" Subject: %Cran: Album title-suggestions (don't read this when you're not drunk :))) Hi, I was the one who asked about what you think might be suitable as a new album-title. What do you think of the following suggestions? - - "Cranberry Sauce, a tribute to The Beatles" As you might know John Lennon used the phrase "Cranberry Sauce" in "Strawberry Fields Forever" which was misunderstood by some fans as "I burried Paul"... Paul dead? Yeah, check out http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Lot/3722/mccartneybio.html for instance. A Cranberries-albums filled with Beatles-covers would be my dream come true (though a Beatles-album filled with Cranberries-covers would be even better :)). - - "Even We Did It, So Why Don't You?" - - "The Cranberries" Nowadays almost every band has an album named after themselves, so why not? - - "You May Think Dolores Is The Only Band-Member, But There Are Three More" - - "Limerick" An album filled with limerick-like-lyrics (wow, that'd be a great title by itself! :))) - - "V", "Fifth Symphony", "5ive" or "IIIII" It's their fifth album, right? - - "Major Flower's Hardly Ever Recognized Two Times Band" - - "Cranberry Fields Forever" - - "A Hard Day's Berry" - - "A Day In The Berry" I'm a Beatles-fan, remember? ;-) Well, I think I've bothered you enough with my stupid fantasies now :) G'night, I'm going to sleep! Ralph "Don't always take me seriously" O'Neills ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 14:39:55 PST From: "Sorcerer" Subject: Re: %Cran: Have I got MTV News for you!!! mtv in america is different from mtv europe and asia. so i guess they won't show it in the us. sorcerer http://thedonnas.cjb.net aim: sorcerer05 icq# 50567127 - ----Original Message Follows---- From: "The Vine" To: cranlist@smoe.org Subject: %Cran: Have I got MTV News for you!!! Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 18:51:08 GMT Alright, I am gonna apologize for my explicit language at forehand, but I just have to get this off my chest.... THOSE F#$%CKING BASTARDS AT MTV!!!! Remember we started to ask MTV New to play the You and Me video?? Well, here's the rather insolent reply I received from them a couple of minutes ago: >Hey, > >Sorry - but we can't play the new Cranberries clip as music programming >don't think the live-clip is of a quality which fits our channel ... >Anyway the clip has been out some two months - so you wouldn't have seen >it by now on MTV:New anyway. Sorry, > >Thanks for your feedback, > >Jr >/MTV:New Those stupid @sses!!!! Anyhow, I find it hard to keep hold of myself, but I am going to resist the urge to reply to him and flame big time as I am doing right now because I don't want to make things worse anyway. So even though this really pisses me off, I am going to stay rather polite about it, otherwise we maybe give the Crans a bad image towards MTV and they won't play any of their songs anymore...*sigh* The good news is that they'll probably put the video on the upcoming DVD, at least that's what I understood Fergal was saying? Anyway... for those of you who are pissed off too but would like to have an adult conversation with mtv about this, without flaming or anything, but with arguments why they should broadcast the crans (millions of arguments to think of, they are just brilliant for one thing!) I can give you the guys' email address. Bye for now, Jessica ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 20:52:30 -0500 From: =?iso-8859-1?B?amVhbqZmcmFu529pcw==?= Subject: %Cran: Song Rewrote ok peeps No i'm not trying to start a flame on the lists. I simply posted a cran song the I rewrote (just like Ralph did). Yes the subject of it was anti-capitalism. But did I ask everyone's opinion on the subject and to post those opinions on the list to make a huge falme so that everyone hates themselves? NO!!! I asked people to e-mail me their comments to my e-mail address. If you were offended by the song rewrote, you shouldn't have continued to read it and then bitch on me. I did receive some pretty great opinions (anti-capitalist or not) but I also received some e-mail that should of been printed out (and you know the rest). Let's close the discussion. I don't want a debate. Anyways, that's enough for now (I have a stage feeling i'm gonna get 40 more e-mails beacuse some people were also felling ofended by this message) bye bye jean¦françois ²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²² ²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²² Jean-François Goyette (Fluoberry) e-mail me at dbgoyet@videotron.ca or ICQ me at 43408869 Cranberries Waltzing Back website: http://pages.infinit.net/fluo1 "To hell with what your thinking, and to hell with your narrow mind. Your so distracted from the real thing. You should leave your life behind." Dolores O'Riordan of The Cranberries ²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²² ²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²² ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 22:52:19 -0500 From: Suzanne Aston Subject: Re: %Cran: Song Rewrote > No i'm not trying to start a flame on the lists. I simply posted a cran > song the I rewrote (just like Ralph did). Yes the subject of it was > anti-capitalism. The cranberries song was merely used as a medium to bring across your views of anti-capitalism, just as Ralph did with his rewritten song. I do recall that created a conversation on the list that went way off topic and I had (hopefully) kindly asked that that discussion be taken off the Cran list. And I will agree wholeheartedly with Francois that this discussion also go to the same fate. What is it they say about the Officer's table? Discussion on politics, women and money be banned from the dinner table. I suggest we do essentially the same and just keep away from discussion that will cause arguments and flame wars that don't concern the Cranberries, or even music in general! Sincerely, Suzy ps I think it's great to take an interest in politics! Being a history major myself, I think it's important to create provocative discussion, but as always there is a time and a place for it... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 23:28:20 EST From: YeatsGrave@aol.com Subject: %Cran: politics...hah In a message dated 03/28/2000 7:03:05 AM Eastern Standard Time, dbgoyet@videotron.ca writes: << The reason I am against capitalism is beacuse its a form a facism. You try to completly elliminate the poor. >> thats just ridiculous. people are poor because they are lazy or uneducated (at least in america...we're not talking about 3rd world countries with corrupt governments and minimal resources). it has nothing to do with capitalism. you cant condemn people for working hard to earn money. capitalism exists in a free market. how can that be worse than socialism, where everything is controlled by the government. if companies werent owned privately, the government would have total power, and total power leads to total corruption. how many socialist countries are as well off as the united states? utopia does not exist and it never will. jean ....i dont really know if you have studied different types of governments or economies, but being so young, i'll attribute your lack of intuitiveness to inexperience. your idealism is misguided. paul ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 23:38:24 EST From: YeatsGrave@aol.com Subject: Re: %Cran: Cran song rewrote (response to george) In a message dated 03/28/2000 7:13:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, dbgoyet@videotron.ca writes: << What's the problem with capitalism? Let me just put it this way. 20% of the world's population consummes 80% of what there is to consumate. Capitalism is fascism, you try to eliminate the poor. >> hahah um...thats pretty sick. must be a bunch of horny people. <> you dont KNOW that all bill gates wants is more money. its more likely that when he started designing the software that you dont seem to have a problem using he wasnt thinking about the money he was going to make but how to improve computers to be faster and easier to use. i dont know anyone who is a slave to anybody , considering slavery was abolished more than 100 years ago. and as for the middle class, well I happen to be living proof of the existence of it. and i would think it safe to say anyone who is using a computer and is on the cranberries mailing list falls into that category as well. <> first of all monopolies are not legal in the united states, second, i dont think you are talking about making fortunes. you are saying that the poor people dont make enough money to feed themselves, but that is bullshit. i have read studies that indicate that even the poorest of people in the united states have enough food to eat at least 2 meals a day. i feel sorry for you if you actually believe that capitalism is a bad thing. but i imagine you suffer from the ill effects of it firsthand. otherwise how would you be able to make such claims about it? paul ------------------------------ End of cranlist-digest V3 #52 *****************************