From: owner-cranlist-digest@smoe.org (cranlist-digest)
To: cranlist-digest@smoe.org
Subject: cranlist-digest V3 #5
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cranlist-digest        Friday, January 14 2000        Volume 03 : Number 005



                               Today's Subjects:
                               -----------------
  Re: %Cran: What's happening here?!  [Nic Carter <s2191043@cse.unsw.edu.au>]
  %Cran: about all these messages  [Schmidty <schmidty@schmidty.simplenet.co]
  [none]                          ["Matias G. Walkoski" <mwalko@mixmail.com>]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 21:31:34 +1100 (EST)
From: Nic Carter <s2191043@cse.unsw.edu.au>
Subject: Re: %Cran: What's happening here?!

I'd just like to make a rather pointless reply which only achieves one
thing:  I agree with suzi...  I've been here for yonks, and a berries fan
for yonks, and I have basically the same opinion as her...  I still love
the berries, however...  :)  (not to say that she doesn't!!!)


nic...

On Wed, 12 Jan 2000, Suzanne Aston wrote:

> > I haven't written in a long time, but lately I've been getting email that's
> > very disturbing to me.  I don't know what's up with all this
> > Cranberri-flaming lately.  I thought everybody here was a fan.  But lately
> > the only people writing emails are those who are putting the Berries down.
> 
> I think it's a case where a lot of old fans are struggling, almost, between
> emotions, as they were huge fans of the Cranberries' old music and still are but
> don't enjoy nearly as much their new music as the change in them is not something
> these fans are liking.
> 
> I myself are one of those fans.  I think their first two albums are the best
> albums of my cd collection and I think they will always be favourites of mine.  I
> also find their bsides are superior and their live act astounding, you guys know!
> :)  I also find, however, their last two albums more commercial, just all around
> not as good as their first two - not as well produced, lyrics not as sound.
> 
> I think this is a list for fans, who comprise of people like me and perhaps some
> like Elios who need to express their opinions and feelings around the changes the
> Cranberries have made.  It doesn't always have to be  'ra ra Cranberries,' does
> it?  I think people have the right to flash the critical eye around every so
> often.Anways, these are my radical opinions.
> 
> Suzy
> 
> ps please no flaming on the list.  Any direct personal attacks to anyone should
> be made privately or better yet, not at all.
> 

<<------
  "If you dare to open wide your eyes of faith, you'll
   be surprised by what you see, by what it costs and 
   how it's worth it." -- Michael Frost "Eyes Wide Open"
  ------>>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 22:43:44 +1100
From: Schmidty <schmidty@schmidty.simplenet.com>
Subject: %Cran: about all these messages

Hey everyone,

I didn't really plan to get involved in this discussion, but it seems
like months since I've posted anything.

I agree with a bit of what everyone's saying :)

Suzy and Nic, you're both right, people are feeling different about the
band, and that's fair enough. Everyone had their own reason to start
liking them, and some of those things are still there while others
aren't.

For me it's NNTA that drew me to them, and it's still my fav, but I love
BTH as well.

As for the media, nothing more needs to be said, they don't like 'em
much. (both interpretations of this statement make sense)

In response to Elio: Just to be technically correct, Promises actually
has four chords, not three, and as an argument that this makes it worse
than earlier material, you'll find that a lot, if not most, of their
songs are four-chord progressions. I can't comment on the JMI video,
because for some strange reason we never got it down here in Australia,
nor did we get the single. BTH never even charted here, nor did any of
the singles. I've also only ever heard Promises on the radio, and that
not very often.

Anyway, those are my ramblings for the time being.
Till next time,
Johannes.

- -- 
`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'
Johannes Schmidt		
				  
schmidty@schmidty.simplenet.com	  
http://schmidty.simplenet.com	  

"God it's so painful, something that's 
 so close but still so far out of reach"
 -Tom Petty
`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 17:50:35 +000
From: "Matias G. Walkoski" <mwalko@mixmail.com>
Subject: [none]

Hi!,
     In response to that flame mail (you all know wich
 it was).

<Buenas gente...

<Esta es mi primera carta hacia uds y será la última

Strange, very strange. You took the work subscribing 
in a list for
just sending only one e-mail, to discredit the subject 
of the list
 wich is The Cranberries. Very strange...

<Cuando comencé a escuchar the Cranberries, no conocia
<otros estilos de rock, incluso, lo comence a escuchar
<por la canción Salvation, pensé que era un estilo
<parecido pero me di cuenta que no.........y ahora
<pienso que son una banda condenada a servir al
<productor.... es demasiado comercial....el último
<video es malo y la cancion es pesima.....antes ellos
<solian ser una banda con identidad propia, ahora son
<la imagen del productor ansioso de dinero.

So, you liked TTFD and now don´t like BTH. Very 
strange, you flame
the band for being too commercial, but you only 
entered trough TTFD
 (don´t misunderstand me, it´s never too late to 
discover a band, but
in this case...). If you were interested in no 
commercial bands, should have had notice  EEIDISWCW? 
or at least NNTA, but you only dare to pay attention 
to the berries, when they were absolutly under the 
limelight of succes. If you don´t know, the 
Cranberries are co-producers of their new album, wich 
means they serve themselves. I think you don´t know 
the difference between a producer and a manager, or 
management agency. 
Being todays proffesional audio equipment to complex 
to manage, the idea of the artist being a 100% 
producer is a fake, even in the event a band is 
entitled for being the producer, they at least require 
a sound engineer to mix the differnt instruments 
tracks in an apropiate manner. But as they produced 
the new work, one of the ideas was not to use the band 
image too much, resulting in an album without any 
member of the band in the front or back cover and also 
the first too singles without band members. That was 
just pure artwork, and I find it absolutly NO-
Commercial way.
If you talk about money, the initial contract with 
Island Records, it´s well paid with the emormous 
succes of NNTA and EEIDISWCW, so they are not having 
much presure at this time of their carriers. (Contrary 
to what happened to Cocteau Twins, who eventualy 
formed their own company in his large and sometimes 
suffered carrier).
It all boils down to the old question of why this 
album seems to be a happy one and more optimistic than 
the others. The event of dolores being a mother and 
overcoming her relationship problems in various 
aspects of her life, sure has to lead the album in 
that way.

<Pienso que sus mentes estan quemadas.....promises creo
<que no tiene mas de 3 acordes y el video es triste, y
<sin imaginación.

A song can´t be mesure in that terms. Chord complexity 
isn´t a way to determine a song´s quality. SOngs can 
be good or bad no matter how complex or simple it´s 
arrangements are. It´s good to sparse some crude rock 
in the air when so much teeny-popers are around.

<No les estoy diciendo que sea una banda mala, ellos
<tienen buenas canciones pero en este album cayeron en
<lo comercial.....se que el rock alternativo es
<comercial pero se pasaron........

´Alternative Rock´, was a commercial way in Nirvana 
days.
Anyway alternative rock means a lot of things and 
means nothing.
Put a lot of diffrent stlye bands all together and 
just say they are all
commercial doesn´t have much sense to me.
I find TCB in a medium term, when they are famous 
enough to cost a worldwide tour, but that doesn´t mean 
they are commercial. Also the Smashing Pumpkings found 
a medium term, not to become just a product.
I don´t find TCB are in a PopMart attitude (if U know 
who I´m talking about).

<Yo deje de escuchar eso porque me di cuenta de que
<existen grupos musicales con mayor imaginación y con
<una nueva identidad, el rock sinfónico y el metal
<progresivo además del verdadero heavy metal. Deberian
<comparar los estilos y ver cual les parece que tiene
<mayor filling......

Rock Sinfonico, Metal Progresivo , aint nothing new 
under the sun, my friend!!!. What are you talking 
about, Led Zeppelin? Is that new for you?
It´s not a new identity; a relative new identity could 
be ambiant music, but symphonic rock?
I never get bored to listen TCB, because they are not 
in a one style kind of think. They just do superb 
music and could manage to mix from classical to rock. 
It makes me laugh when I see Metallica discovering 
they can work around with classical music; when you´re 
younger, sometimes you can fall in stupid attitudes 
and later have to apologize for being so close minded.
TCB never feared of mixing classical, but were blamed 
on their beginnings for being ´to weak´ to be rock.

>>...Stronger than steel we're the Legions of the 
Twilight...

You´re no legion, you are alone in your world!!

See ya,
           WALKO.

Tu correo gratis en MixMail http://www.mixmail.com
Inicia tu navegacion en http://www.ya.com

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End of cranlist-digest V3 #5
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