From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V10 #62 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Friday, August 2 2013 Volume 10 : Number 062 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Buffy; was [TV Guide list of fantasy/SF TV] [KLOSS] [chakram-refugees] TV Guide list of fantasy/SF TV [KLOSSNER9@aol.com] RE: [chakram-refugees] Buffy; was [TV Guide list of fantasy/SF TV] ["Xena] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 09:16:41 -0400 (EDT) From: KLOSSNER9@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Buffy; was [TV Guide list of fantasy/SF TV] I'm the original poster. I have to say that Buffy was a very strong show. It was a well-oiled machine. It rarely had a weak episode. Xena was notorious for inconsistency -- a good episode one week, a poor one the next. It was a Perils of Pauline for fans. I watched Buffy, enjoyed it, admired it -- and went back to being an obsessed Xena fan while knowing that Buffy was better. What we like most is not always what's best. I don't care for the "flawed hero." I want heroes to be heroic, and yes, virtuous. Buffy was always good,. but not infallible. She made mistakes but she didn't go bad. I objected to the fact that the Xena-makers insisted that Xena could not control herself, that she would go bad if not for Gabrielle. These days, having a bad hero is a fairly cheap and easy way to claim to be smart and tough. We are in the age of Tarantino and Game of Thrones, of smirking cynicism and giggling sadism -- really a cult of brutality. And we must note that Tapert (and Lawless and O'Connor) have done just about nothing since Xena/Herc went off the air 12 years ago, while Whedon has done The Avengers. Boeotian In a message dated 7/31/2013 10:44:03 P.M. Central Daylight Time, xenatorres@bitchofrome.com writes: I don't know...I have no respect for anyone who puts Buffy before Xena. *vomit* Drives me nuts, frankly. People always talk about Buffy, but not Xena. Explain that failed logic. Xena came first, and Xena herself is a million times a cooler heroine than Buffy, and far more important for the progression of female heroines (being sooner than Buffy and all). Also, Xena beats Buffy because she's a flawed hero. That's one of the things that always bothered me the most about Buffy - she's always right just because she's the hero. Xena made mistakes and was wrong at times. That made her so much more interesting, and the series as a whole so much stronger than Buffy. (this is not to diss any Buffy fans, but I will never understand the Whedon 'fanboys' when I think Tapert should have a much stronger fan base). And, yeah, how odd that it says sci-fi but then mixes and matches genes. :S - - Xena Torres www.bitch-of-rome.com TO A STRONG AMAZON NATION! ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 21:16:30 -0400 (EDT) From: KLOSSNER9@aol.com Subject: [chakram-refugees] TV Guide list of fantasy/SF TV TV Guide (it still exists) had an article in the July 15-28, 2013, double issue "Fantastic Voyages: the 60 Greatest Sci-Fi Shows of All Time." It is by Matt Roush, their top critic, who is usually pretty good. Despite the sub-title the list includes fantasy and horror shows as well as SF. The first ten are in Roush's order of preference. The next 50 are in alphabetical order. 1. Star Trek/Star Trek: Next Generation 2. Twilight Zone (1st series) 3. Battlestar Galactica (2nd series) 4. X Files 5. Lost 6. Doctor Who 7. Buffy the Vampire Slayer 8. Walking Dead 9. The Prisoner 10. Game of Thrones Adventures of Superman (1950s) Amazing Stories Angel The Avengers (British, 60s) Babylon 5 Batman (60s) Batman the Animated Series (90s) Beauty and the Beast (80s) Being Human Charmed Dark Shadows Dead Like Me Eureka Falling Skies Farscape Firefly Fringe Futurama Hercules: the Legendary Journeys Heroes The Invaders (60s) Invasion The Jetsons (both 60s and 80s series) Kolchak, the Night Stalker Life on Mars (the BBC series, not the U.S. copy) Lost in Space Max Headroom Night Gallery Once Upon a Time One Step Beyond (50s) Outer Limits (60s) Pushing Daisies Quantum Leap Roswell Six Million Dollar Man Smallville Space: Above and Beyond Stargate SG-1 Star Wars: Clone Wars Supernatural Tales from the Crypt Teen Wolf Terminator: Sarah Connor Chronicles Torchwood True Blood V (both 80s and 2009-11 series) Vampire Diaries Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea Wonder Woman Xena: Warrior Princess I'm glad to see both Xena and Hercules. They've both certainly been forgotten by most people and I think Hercules was often underrated, including by some Xena fans. Boeotian ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 12:44:59 -0700 From: "Xena Torres" Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] Buffy; was [TV Guide list of fantasy/SF TV] Um, Tapert has done a LOT post-Xena. He and Sam Raimi started Ghost House Productions and started doing horror movies ("The Grudge," "The Messengers,") and they just wrapped the highly successful series "Spartacus" and they've been working on a new series. Lucy has also had steady work, but both her and Renee took time off immediately after "Xena" to raise their children. Besides, working now or not doesn't change the work they've done. It's pretty common for actors to move into other careers. Look at how insanely successful Claire Stansfield (Alti) has been with her clothing company. As to Whedon - I couldn't even sit through ten minutes of "Avengers" - but then, I am a comic book fan, and I hate comic book movies. I think they butcher and cheapen the original source material (and then destroy the original source material which starts to take on film aspects. Nick Fury for example has been a white man for 50+ years, and then without any explanation he suddenly starts to look like Samuel L. Jackson in the comics - whaaaaaaaaaaaaat?!) And Captain America lost his trademark look of 50+ years as well thanks to the movies. :P Granted, that's a side tangent. I have no issues with people liking Whedon (not a fan myself - and I have seen all of "Buffy," most of "Angel" and all of "Firefly," and tried "Dollhouse" but couldn't get into it), I just don't get why he gets so much more attention that Tapert who has been groundbreaking in his work for decades: cult classics, and massive series and films. Maybe he gets less attention because he's a producer first, but he is the man guiding the ship. I have to disagree that "Buffy" never had a weak episode. I could write books on places I felt the show failed epically. I can say many good things for it too, but I have more to say against it than for it (but there were things I LOVED about the series - Faith, Dawn, eps like "The Body"). But, really, this comes down to personal taste - so to each their own. My annoyance is that "Buffy" gets more credit than "Xena" when it shouldn't. People love to talk about the musical ep of "Buffy" for example, but it was the success of "The Bitter Suite" that "Xena" did first that lead to the wave of musical episodes on a lot of series. "Xena" paved the way for that, and even though "Buffy" was the last of all the shows that followed to do it, that episode is discussed more than the brilliance that was "The Bitter Suite." And I liked "Once More With Feeling" - but it came after, and, in my opinion, wasn't nearly as powerful as "The Bitter Suite" (because "The Bitter Suite" was dealing with a much more massive issue than "Once More With Feeling" - but both were successful as musicals, and I liked the songs in both of them). Regardless of which you liked better though, "XENA" WAS FIRST. "Xena" broke that ground. Just as "Xena" was the first show to come around and present a real kick ass female heroine for the first time in a LONG time (since, what, "She-Ra"?) and the success of "Xena" paved the way for all the shows that would follow, including "Buffy." "Buffy" did some good work, and broke some ground itself, sure. But it shouldn't be getting more credit than "Xena" which came first. As to which show is superior - there is no winning that argument. No one will ever convince someone else which is better because we have our own personal taste. And I agree with cr - the "Xena"/"Buffy" issue is very much like the "Xena"/"Hercules" issue, where everyone talks "Xena" and ignores "Hercules" without which there would be no "Xena." And, yes, cr, there were GREAT eps of "Hercules" - I loved anything that was Kevin Sorbo-lite. :D The supporting cast of "Hercules" were AMAZING, and any eps that featured a nice collection of them was stellar (I never felt Sorbo could act, so serious eps with him tended to drive me crazy, but that doesn't mean the writing wasn't brilliant - there were some truly great episodes). Just saying: Give the series their due. I mean, honestly, I think the reason "Buffy" gets more attention that "Xena" is strictly because "Buffy" was a network show and "Xena" was syndicated. I hate that bias. Bigger budget and network backing does not a better series make. - - Xena Torres www.bitch-of-rome.com TO A STRONG AMAZON NATION! From: KLOSSNER9@aol.com [mailto:KLOSSNER9@aol.com] Sent: August-01-13 6:17 AM To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Cc: xenatorres@bitchofrome.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Buffy; was [TV Guide list of fantasy/SF TV] I'm the original poster. I have to say that Buffy was a very strong show. It was a well-oiled machine. It rarely had a weak episode. Xena was notorious for inconsistency -- a good episode one week, a poor one the next. It was a Perils of Pauline for fans. I watched Buffy, enjoyed it, admired it -- and went back to being an obsessed Xena fan while knowing that Buffy was better. What we like most is not always what's best. I don't care for the "flawed hero." I want heroes to be heroic, and yes, virtuous. Buffy was always good,. but not infallible. She made mistakes but she didn't go bad. I objected to the fact that the Xena-makers insisted that Xena could not control herself, that she would go bad if not for Gabrielle. These days, having a bad hero is a fairly cheap and easy way to claim to be smart and tough. We are in the age of Tarantino and Game of Thrones, of smirking cynicism and giggling sadism -- really a cult of brutality. And we must note that Tapert (and Lawless and O'Connor) have done just about nothing since Xena/Herc went off the air 12 years ago, while Whedon has done The Avengers. Boeotian In a message dated 7/31/2013 10:44:03 P.M. Central Daylight Time, xenatorres@bitchofrome.com writes: I don't know...I have no respect for anyone who puts Buffy before Xena. *vomit* Drives me nuts, frankly. People always talk about Buffy, but not Xena. Explain that failed logic. Xena came first, and Xena herself is a million times a cooler heroine than Buffy, and far more important for the progression of female heroines (being sooner than Buffy and all). Also, Xena beats Buffy because she's a flawed hero. That's one of the things that always bothered me the most about Buffy - she's always right just because she's the hero. Xena made mistakes and was wrong at times. That made her so much more interesting, and the series as a whole so much stronger than Buffy. (this is not to diss any Buffy fans, but I will never understand the Whedon 'fanboys' when I think Tapert should have a much stronger fan base). And, yeah, how odd that it says sci-fi but then mixes and matches genes. :S - - Xena Torres www.bitch-of-rome.com TO A STRONG AMAZON NATION! ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V10 #62 **************************************