From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V7 #77 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Friday, July 13 2007 Volume 07 : Number 077 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] We warned them about Kurzman-Orci [cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] We warned them about Kurzman-Orci On Wed, 2007-07-11 at 17:29 -0700, Xena Torres wrote: > > cr, whey did steve sears list himself as "buddy williers?" > > Steve addressed this at a convention - the ep under went a re-write that wasn't his, so he didn't want to put his actual name on it - or something to that effect. :) > Well remembered, XT! >From the Whoosh Episode Guide: 11-07-99. Sears and Stewart were originally credited as the writers for Them Bones in the press release of ANIMAL ATTRACTION, however, the final episode credits have it written by Buddy Williers and Kurtzmann & Orci as Creative Consultants. Steve Sears explains this situation: "Originally, RJ and I were going to write it together. Then, as we started working on it, something came up (I can't remember what, maybe CLEOPATRA) and RJ wasn't able to work on it anymore. So I took over. I wrote the script and second draft. As we were getting ready for me to leave, Bob and Alex were getting more involved in the show. Since they were to take over my position, it would be up to them to do the rewrites. They rewrote BONES completely because they had some things they wanted to do and head toward in future episodes. Because the episode was rewritten so extensively, I didn't feel comfortable with my name still on it. I couldn't take blame or credit for it, so I used a pseudonym. Buddy Williers is my WGA registered aka. There is another script that they rewrote of mine, but I forget the title at the moment (Ah, sweet age!). You'll know it by the Williers credit. "Again, this isn't even a comment on quality. I just had no way to take responsibility for any of it. If someone complimented me on it, I would have no right to accept it. If I was criticized, I didn't want to sound as if I was making excuses." Maybe I was incorrect to include Them Bones as one of Steve's, though the connections of other people with the episodes they're nominally responsible for appears to be often just as tenuous. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 19:30:27 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] We warned them about Kurzman-Orci On Wed, 2007-07-11 at 03:42 -0700, Xena Torres wrote: > > Yes, BUT - how much influence does the producer have, vs the director, > > and the writers? And, for that matter, the actors? > > An idea does not become a script until the producers say, "Go" to the writer. They also choose the writer who does it. A script does not shoot until it's approved by the producers. HOWEVER - I will point out that if you really want to 'blame' the FINAL say (creatively - this is minus the people who paid the bills - Studios USA by that point) was always Rob Tapert. But I think the man is a genius. :) I agree. And the main thread of the story, the overall theme of the show, was undoubtedly his, I'd say. > > What I was really getting at was the selectivity and scapegoat attitude > > shown by some fans who just can't know who really had the most influence on any episode. > > I completely agree. It's never 'one' person's 'fault'. It's the COLLECTIVE choice of the producing team. Even the executive producer doesn't blow in the room one morning say, "We're doing this this year" and then breeze out without comments from their producers - there's a reason they hire their producers after all. One person always heads a series, but it's a collective effort. Agreed. And judging by the varying credits on XWP eps - some 'written by', some 'teleplay by', some 'story by' - I'd say it varied from episode to episode. Obviously the mix wasn't the same in all eps. > > Well, I'm okay with Chris (though I usually prefer RJ and RT). > > Rob didn't actually write any eps. ;) He has plenty of "Story by" credits though. The best writers on Xena were the main three - Chris, RJ and Steve. RJ certainly wins for coolest characters (created Gab and Callisto). The season six writers all needed to be 86ed (referring mostly to the new guys, but even RJ who was the only original around delivered sub quality eps). Adam and Nora were also great - and they are currently doing a lovely job on Heroes as producers/writers. :) Oh, I can't agree with you about Season 6. I know you don't like it. IMO, leaving aside a few turkeys like Gurkhan and Helicon and Fates (cr says, tempting fate himself :) there were some excellent eps in it. I'd single out the Ring trilogy, You Are There, Clones and Friend in Need as being especially enjoyable or moving episodes. (Of course I know perfectly well some fans will disagree about that selection!) > > > Well, I have to admit that my liking for Herc S5 has more to do with > > Nebula and Morrigan than with Herc. > > Gina Torres RULES ALL! :) As Ares said, 'Whoa momma!' IMO Nebula is the best role Gina ever had. (She was woefully under-used in Firefly). cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 13:52:07 -0700 From: "Xena Torres" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] We warned them about Kurzman-Orci > Maybe I was incorrect to include Them Bones as one of Steve's, though > the connections of other people with the episodes they're nominally > responsible for appears to be often just as tenuous. Yeah if he only did the first two drafts, it makes total sense. There's WAY more re-writes than that. :D Julie "XT" Ruffell www.bitchofrome.com "I don't do this to die. I do this to live." - Laura "Seconds" ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 13:49:59 -0700 From: "Xena Torres" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] We warned them about Kurzman-Orci > I'd single out the Ring trilogy Concept was poorly delivered. There isn't an ep in season six that made me freak out or react emotionally to like seasons 1-5. >You Are There Sorry - the one exception - this ep is my FAV comedy. I strain myself laughing at it. :) >Clones and Friend It had it's moments - it was the best one that used fandom, for sure. >Friend in Need There's a LOT I love about Friend in Need, but there's also parts that don't work. Granted this isn't ALL due to writing, but the #1 issue with FIN will always be that those people died by ACCIDENT. THEY attacekd Xena and they got burned (literally) - that she was their 'murderer' and had to die was lame. Now if she had rode through town with her army and laid waste - then it would have ROCKED. I also hated EVERYTHING to do with Akemi. The flashback story was weak overall. Actually, come to think of it, FIN was pretty weak. I just loved that they killed Xena and how she got to go out super warrior style. And the Xena/Gab goodbye ROCKED. And I think those facts let me overlook what was missing in the rest of the ep - but really, there was so much more that could have been done with that ep. I guess for me, the best finales are always the ones that come back full circle - ones that touch back on 1st ep or season one stuff. :) > IMO Nebula is the best role Gina ever had. (She was woefully under-used in Firefly). I completely agree - though I will point out she was used MUCH better in the movie. :) Hel was a great role for her too. :) Julie "XT" Ruffell www.bitchofrome.com "I don't do this to die. I do this to live." - Laura "Seconds" ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V7 #77 *************************************