From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V7 #35 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Tuesday, March 13 2007 Volume 07 : Number 035 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] LUCY NYC CONCERT AND LUCY/RENEE NYC CONVENTION INFO (fwd) ["Xena Torres" ] [chakram-refugees] Super Bitches and Action Babes - coming [KLOSSNER9@aol] RE: [chakram-refugees] Creations ["bookdaft" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 21:56:03 -0700 From: "Xena Torres" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] LUCY NYC CONCERT AND LUCY/RENEE NYC CONVENTION INFO (fwd) > > I live less than an hour and a half away, but there's no way I'm > > giving Creation a cent of my money... not even to see LL in > > concert....$89 for a show at the Canal Room should be illegal. > > Similar industry showcases in the same space have ticket prices > > of $15 - $30. This is yet another transparent attempt on > > Creation's part to extort money out of the HCNBs. HEAR HEAR! Much as I want to support Lucy, since Creation has, like, COMPLETE control of our ability to contact her, if we want her to know we are being ripped off, the way to do it is to not pay NYC. When Lucy asks "Why did no one come" let Creation explain their frelling ticket prices! Lucy - if you REALLY want to impress and do something for your fans, hell yes, do your tour - but do it through your agent! Kick Creation to the curb! And what's with Sharon EDITING conversations on the LUCY LAWLESS LIST! Doesn't Lucy's site say it's NOT connected to Creation? Sharon has no frelling business editing people for badmouthing Creation on LUCY'S list. Hell, she has no business running Lucy's club. Conflict of interest anyone? And where are the Lucy CDs? I paid for mine in JANUARY. Hmmm, been over a month - where the hell is it? If they weren't ready to be mailed, they shouldn't have been on sale. Creation can go suck a rat! Julie "XT" Ruffell www.bitchofrome.com "I don't do this to die. I do this to live." - Laura "Seconds" ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 21:57:54 -0700 From: "Xena Torres" Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] [officiallucylawlessfanclub] LUCY NYC CONCERT AND LUCY/RENEE NYC CONVENTION INFO (fwd) > Extortion? Maybe, but....I don't care. For me, this is fun, not extortion. > I had a super time before and I'm pretty darn sure I will again in June. Yes, the Xena people rule - we all know that. They give us a great time - I will not deny that. But imagine how much BETTER an event it would be if Creation was 86ed for a convention company that doesn't treat us like a herd of cattle with money coming out of our butts? Julie "XT" Ruffell www.bitchofrome.com "I don't do this to die. I do this to live." - Laura "Seconds" ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 22:04:43 -0700 From: "Xena Torres" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Creation >When I contacted Mindy Clarke's agent to see if she'd come out here, I was told her speaking fee > alone (not including air fare) was $5,000! $5,000 isn't a lot of money. It SOUNDS like a lot because you aren't a company - you don't have the funds to put into creating an event that people will pay to see, nor can you afford up front to hold it at a venue to fit 5,000 fans. Also, you don't have the money to market your event. Gold seats for Creation cost, what, $300-$400 now? And they tend to be the first 30 rows? So, what, 40-50 fans per row, that's $360,000-$600,000. Does $5,000 still sound steep? ;) At a 5,000 fan event, Creation is cleaning our clocks. And don't get me started on how much we're ripped off on the crappy DVDs again... Julie "XT" Ruffell www.bitchofrome.com "I don't do this to die. I do this to live." - Laura "Seconds" ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 21:50:58 -0700 From: "Xena Torres" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Creations > You know Creations is often accused of over charging but since we have no idea > what their expenses are we have no idea what the proper charge is. Actually, for those of us who run events and actually do know what the stars are paid to attention these things, yeah, we CAN say that Creation is RIPPING US OFF. I have run THREE XenaFests. I know EXACTLY how much it costs to rent a place, market, organize, yadda. I'm also well aware of how much the guests are paid - I've asked them. $160 US dollars for a seat adn $89 for STANDING room to watch Lucy in a club - oh no, I don't think so. Lucy's a great singer, love her talent, but, I can go to a JEWEL concert LOCALLY for $40 CND. And I don't have to pay $1,000+ on a passport, plane fair, transportation, hotel in US funds to do it. And Creation treats most of the Xena actors no better than us. I have it on authority that some of them don't like Creation at all - but, sadly, they really are the only ones running conventions in the USA - and it's the best place to interact with their fans (and, yes, they do get paid, but, not really a lot - they do drop cons for gigs). Every year Creation simply pisses me off more and more. I pretty much have stopped buying their products. I remember when the fan club kits were for a YEARS membership and you actually had hard copies of newsletters mailed to you. The cheap, 4-6 month ONLINE fan club sh*t was really the final straw for me. Add to that the OVERWHELMING OVERCHARGING of DVDs, when the damned things are shot with some handheld, personal piece o'crap camera. No lighting, no audio. Why am I paying $40 US for something completely unwatchable? The coffee talk at Renee's house was just that - UNWATCHABLE. It was fuzzy and I couldn't understand two words Lucy and Renee were saying the audio was so bad. I mean OMG - you don't even need a boom mike. A semi-professional camera can pick up audio as good as a boom mike in a situation like that. There was NO excuse for that crap. Hire a professional. My god, bootleg convention footage out does Creation footage for crying out loud! *throws up hands in discust* And, yes, I'm an authority on that too - I work on indie film sets - I know what it costs. Yes, Creation has to make money. That's not in question. That's the point of a business. Yes, prices will rise from time to time due to inflation. But, you know what, the simple fact is, it's not worth me spending $1,000-$2,000 to go t a Creation event only to be treated like an ATM, and be shuffled around like a herd of cattle. I WILL NOT pay to attention a large Creation event. No way in hell. Been there, done that - pissed me off. When the guest stars told me they weren't ALLOWED to personalize an autograph - I wanted to beat Creation with a giant stick. THAT'S THE WHOLE DAMNED POINT OF GOING!!!!! If it's not personalized - WHAT IS THE POINT? I have and will attention events close to me (I live in Vancouver, BC - I will attend ONLY Seattle conventions). Why? Because they are SMALL events. The guests totally do what they want regardsless of Creation's 'rules'. Creation said REPEATLY that Renee would NOT attend the dance party - HA! Take that, while Creation 'management' was all over Lucy at GPB, Renee DID attend the dance party. She sang, Adrienne joined her. Then Steven Sears plugged up his iPod (cause there was no one there from Creation to play music at this 'dance party'), and Renee got on the dance floor with the fans. Renee also TOOK QUESTIONS FROM THE AUDIENCE at the Seattle convention. Creation does not LET Lucy and Renee do this at big conventions. Autograph lines? Hell, not only will they personalize, but they'll sign more than one auto and take pixs. Adrienne was wonderfully generous at the Seattle convention - because she didn't have some Creation Nazi at her shoulder. *I* actually got to hand my photo to her. I didn't have to give it to some Creation Nazi to be signed by Adrienne while I was still four people away. There's the overcharging of the tickets, the autographs, the photo ops - the fact that they DOUBLE BOOK SEATS (oh yes, this happened to a friend of mine - they sold her seat to her and someone else). They can't even keep organized with which guests they've invited. I can tell you there was a late add on to one event who they thought they had already invited (nope - they had never contacted this person). Let's not forget the horribly scheduled events - you'll be in an autograph line while a GUEST IS ON STAGE! Um, one should not have to choose between seeing the event they PAID to see, and getting the autograph they PAID to receive. Either than the guest stars - Creation has NOTHING to offer. The 'events' are boring as all hell. I actually leave the convention when there's no guest on stage - there's nothing to entertain me. And don't think Creation is the only company that can get the guests to come. Hell, toss companies. FANS CAN DO IT. I had a friend who had Claire Stansfield, Vicky Pratt and several others lined up for a kick ass event in Seattle (sadly, same weekend the Creation convention fell on with Lucy and Renee, so she did cancel her event). This same wonderful friend got Adrienne Wilkinson to come hang out with us for a day. We had dinner, attended a play and hung out for HOURS just chatting. If you have the drive - you can pull off your own BETTER event. I love the Xenaverse. I love Xenites. And I am constantly and repeatedly pissed off with how we LET Creation treat us. Hell, I bet if we boycott ONE convention, they'll smarten up. As it is now, as long as we're willing to be ripped off, they will continue to do so. Julie "XT" Ruffell www.bitchofrome.com "I don't do this to die. I do this to live." - Laura "Seconds" ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 11:19:17 -0400 From: meredith Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Creations Hi, XT said it better than I ever could ... but I wanted to reiterate that at least as far as the Canal Room concerts go, I know what the expenses most probably are for that, so I know with 100% certainty that Creation is fleecing the fans with those ticket prices. I work in the live music industry. Not only am I employed by a record label in NYC as a tour manager, but for years I have been involved with putting on live music events, ranging from concerts in my living room (see my .sig below) to weekend-long festivals. I go to as many concerts as I can, not only ones I've helped put on but ones I want to see because I am a music freak. So I know how this stuff works. The way places like the Canal Room operate is, a promoter will come to them and say they want to put on an event. The venue works out a deal where they get a certain amount to cover their overhead (bouncers, sound techs, house manager, janitorial etc.), then after that amount a percentage (up to 100%) of ticket sales goes to the promoter. The venue usually keeps 100% of the bar, which is where they make their money (IIRC, a thimble-sized ginger ale at The Canal Room is $5 - I think beers are $7 or $8). So let's assume that at most, the Canal Room is keeping $750 from the door (in reality it's probably less than that, especially in this case since I'm sure Creation assured them of a sellout all three nights and you know they know how the Xenites can drink ;). Yes, Lucy needs to get paid. I'm positive she's getting a blanket fee from Creation for the entire weekend. So let's take her out of the equation. Yes, her band needs to get paid. But even the most top-shelf session guys in L.A. aren't making what you'd think for a night -- I'm going to guess at most $400 per show. And yeah, you need to fly them out there, put them up, and feed them. But you can get good deals between LAX and NYC these days (particularly on JetBlue), and session guys who care about their careers aren't going to insist upon flying first class. And since the convention is in NJ, I would imagine the band would be put up there, too. Hotels in Jersey are cheaper than ones in NYC proper. I did the math, and even being generous with my numbers I'm coming up with a break-even point of 35-40 tickets per show at Creation's prices. The Canal Room has a capacity of at least 150, probably closer to 200 (I've been squished in there like a sardine both times I've gone to a show there so far). So taking the math a step farther ... yep, the fans are getting boned. Bend over and say "yiyiyiyi". P.S. If you still do want to go to the shows, save yourself some money and don't bother with the seated tickets. The booths are all the way in the back of the room... which, granted, isn't that far back in that space, but still, if you want to be within spitting distance you'll want to stand. - -- =============================================== Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth =============================================== hear at the HOMe House Concert Series http://hom.smoe.org =============================================== ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 20:56:17 EDT From: KLOSSNER9@aol.com Subject: [chakram-refugees] Super Bitches and Action Babes - coming McFarland Publishers will publish Super Bitches and Action Babes: The Female Hero in Popular Cinema 1970-2006, by Rikke Schubart, in fall or winter 2006. Despite the subtitle, this book will include at least 2 TV shows -- Xena and La Femme Nikita. The book's page at the publisher's website, _www.mcfarlandpub.com_ (http://www.mcfarlandpub.com) mentions those two, but not Buffy. The blurb makes clear that the author's starting point (1970) is the start of Pam Grier's career. Schubart is a professor of literature, media and cultural studies at the University of Southern Denmark. Maybe they don't get Buffy. The book will be about 360 pages. Price not yet set. Boeotian


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AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 21:02:42 -0500 From: "bookdaft" Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] Creations <<>> ??? I'm not going to get in the middle of this tussle. However, I do want to mention that at the annual con both Lucy and Renee have taken questions from the audience for the last few years, separately and together. I know this is true because I was there. bd ps. - Ok, I lied. I will say that none of this carping is new. Back in the early days of Star Trek fandom, Jeff Townsend and Lisa Baker? (Barker?), both professional convention organizers, had the same complaints lodged against them. Poor security, organization, high prices. Some of that is true. I have friends who worked the cons as security and have war stories of how bad it was. After that, the fans took the conventions over. If they did have stars attend, there were never as many as Creation puts together now and rarely the Big Three (Shatner, Nimoy and DeForest Kelley) at the same time. Lisa, whatever her name was, later was investigated by the Cook County Prosecutor (if I remember correctly). Jeff Townsend eventually stopped doing this sort of promotion. Creation eventually filled the vacuum. I'm not writing this in defense of Creation's pricing policies or organizational skills. As I said in my previous post on this subject, I don't care. I've had a good time and I expect to have a good time again. Call me a fool, but I'm going again. b ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V7 #35 *************************************