From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V6 #1 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Monday, January 2 2006 Volume 06 : Number 001 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] [richan@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] ["Laconia" ] Re: [chakram-refugees] ["Jackie M. Young" ] Re: [chakram-refugees] ["Laconia" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 04:00:31 -0500 From: richan@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] From: Laconia writes: >>No, this was a serious question. I have heard of a "religious" gene which makes people more likely to get into organized religion. So I'm wondering about any other innate factors that may contribute to religiosity, whether it's moderate religiosity or fundamentalist religiosity. The ancient Greeks espoused two different musical instruments. The lyre and the aulos. The lyre is a stringed instrument. When a sting is plucked it produces a precise note, a note which is easily transcribed mathematically. You pluck more forcefully or softly but it remains the same. The mathematical precision of it music represented reason. This was appreciated by god Apollo who favored the lyre. The aulos on the other hand is a wind instruments. Wind instruments allow notes to be manipulated much more easily than stringed instruments. The length of the note as well as its tone and pitch can be varied widely. The aulos appreciated by Dionysus. The degree to which the notes could be manipulated represented the wild passionate nature of music. (This suggests why Bacchus had Orpheus' lyre stolen in "Girls Just Wanna Have Fun.") http://www.archaeonia.com/arts/music/aulos.htm This difference in the musical nature of the two instruments was reflected in ancient Greek society. To a certain extent this was the symbolic dividing line of the Peloponnesian Wars. The Delian League consisting of the Ionian city states of Athens, etc. preferred the lyre while Sparta and her Dorian sister city states preferred the aulos. Now I'm not saying that this was the cause of the wars. Rather it marked the difference in cultural thinking. Life lived by reason in Athens or life lived by passion in Sparta. Musical competitions were even held to determine which performer and which instrument was superior. ("Lyre, Lyre" is an example of this competition in music.) What kind of music do you listen to? Is your favorite band composed of stringed or wind instruments? In the movie "The Message" there is some interesting dialogue as Mohammed's companions discuss which instrument to use to call believers to prayer. The horn was already being used by Jews. Drums were cast aside as being too martial in nature. The human voice is therefore chosen. Interestingly, the human voice counts as a stringed instrument as it vibrates in much the same manner as strings. The next time you hear rap ask yourself are you listening to reason or passion? Do the lyrics add to the stringed quality of the human voice? (Think of "Lyre, Lyre" again as Xena and Draco face off.) And in other types of music do the lyrics and the instrument match? Plato sought music education for the youth of Athens. But he warned that music could affect men and women's thinking and that the performer was responsible for the ethos of the piece. Ethos here is the emotion could or bad generated by the music. Artist's, orators, etc. too were responsible for the emotions evoked by their work. (NEA take note!) As far as "religiosity" is concerned, if moderate equates to reason and fundamentalist equates to passion, a person's choice of music would be a good determination of their innate nature and preference to religion. Richan ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 16:31:51 -0600 From: "Laconia" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] This is fascinating! It would certainly explain a lot about musical choices, wouldn't it? ******* ----- Original Message ----- From: richan@aol.com To: laconia666@mn.rr.com Cc: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 3:00 AM Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] From: Laconia writes: >>No, this was a serious question. I have heard of a "religious" gene which makes people more likely to get into organized religion. So I'm wondering about any other innate factors that may contribute to religiosity, whether it's moderate religiosity or fundamentalist religiosity. The ancient Greeks espoused two different musical instruments. The lyre and the aulos. The lyre is a stringed instrument. When a sting is plucked it produces a precise note, a note which is easily transcribed mathematically. You pluck more forcefully or softly but it remains the same. The mathematical precision of it music represented reason. This was appreciated by god Apollo who favored the lyre. The aulos on the other hand is a wind instruments. Wind instruments allow n http://www.archaeonia.com/arts/music/aulos.htm This difference in the musical nature of the two instruments was reflected in ancient Greek society. To a certain extent this was the symbolic dividing line of the Peloponnesian Wars. The Delian League consisting of the Ionian city states of Athens, etc. preferred the lyre while Sparta and her Dorian sister city states preferred the aulos. Now I'm not saying that this was the cause of the wars. Rather it marked the difference in cultural thinking. Life lived by reason in Athens or life lived by passion in Sparta. Musical competitions were even held to determine which performer and which instrument was superior. ("Lyre, Lyre" is an example of this competition in music.) What kind of music do you listen to? Is your favorite band composed of stringed or wind instruments? In the movie "The Message" there is some interesting dialogue as Mohammed's companions discuss which instrument to use to call believers to prayer. The horn was already being used by Jews. Drums were cast aside as being too martial in nature. The human voice is therefore chosen. Interestingly, the human voice counts as a stringed instrument as it vibrates in much the same manner as strings. The next time you hear rap ask yourself are you listening to reason or passion? Do the lyrics add to the stringed quality of the human voice? (Think of "Lyre, Lyre" again as Xena and Draco face off.) And in other types of music do the lyrics and the instrument match? Plato sought music education for the youth of Athens. But he warned that music could affect men and women's thinking and that the performer was responsible for the ethos of the piece. Ethos here is the emotion could or bad generated by the music. Artist's, orators, etc. too were responsible for the emotions evoked by their work. (NEA take note!) As far as "religiosity" is concerned, if moderate equates to reason and fundamentalist equates to passion, a person's choice of music would be a good determination of their innate nature and preference to religion. Richan ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 12:20:16 -1000 (HST) From: "Jackie M. Young" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 20:58:20 EST, IfeRae@aol.com, wrote: >Xena's notion of the "greater good" was not about affection, >convenience or the "worth" of those in need. - --Heya, I beg to differ.....;) In Legacy in particular, X departs from her usual course of the greater good by "bending" her rules to save G. In this case, her friendship and Kantian duty to G is stronger than her sense of what was culturally the greater good for the tribe whom they were helping. I discussed this in the paper which you and Lilli helped me proofread on the Whoosh! site. ;P *heh* >In LEGACY, Gabrielle's death might've assuaged her own guilt and >the need for vengeance. It might've saved the wrongly accused Roman >soldier. - --Yup, 2 "greater goods". ;P Also, culturally, those were the "rules" of that tribe. Even in our own society, an accidental death is punishable to a certain extent. Not by death, but usually by imprisonment and/or community service and/or fine. >It would've done nothing to improve the chances for prevailing against >the Romans -- a greater good Xena promoted (manipulalted?) for both >personal and altruistic reasons. - --No, you're right, but the 2 incidents were not related plot-wise at the beginning. X made them related by her "solution" to the prob, but ostensibly they were separate at the start. So they really needed to be "fixed" separately. But here you admit that X had personal reasons for manipulating the Roman situation, which contradicts what you say about X's notion of the greater good above. ;P Just MO, ;) - --Jackie ****************************************************** * Proud to have the same birthday as Lucy Lawless! * * * * "I think New Zealand geographically comes from * * ... Hawai'i." --Lucy Lawless, Late Show, 4/9/96 * * * * JACKIE YOUNG, JYOUNG@LAVA.NET * * * * * ****************************************************** ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 16:56:44 -0600 From: "Laconia" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] In regard to that "religious" gene or the "belief in something" gene, I have also heard a theory that people who have that gene (if it exists) are also more likely to become addicted to something...or someone. It's interesting to think that all of these things may be related biologically in some way. ***** - ----- Original Message ----- From: "cr" To: Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 5:28 PM Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] > On Saturday 31 December 2005 14:52, Laconia wrote: >> No, this was a serious question. I have heard of a "religious" gene >> which >> makes people more likely to get into organized religion. So I'm >> wondering >> about any other innate factors that may contribute to religiosity, >> whether >> it's moderate religiosity or fundamentalist religiosity. >> >> ***** > > Well, my 'flamebait' comment was not entirely facetious, and it could be > taken > on several levels - it could refer to the question, or the topic, or the > fundamentalists themselves, or even my comment itself > > It is quite possible that there is a 'religious' gene - I suppose one > could > also call it a 'belief-in-something' gene. I suppose persons suffering** > from it might equally strongly believe in, say, Marxism, or UFO's, or > patriotism, or conspiracy theories... > > (** Though they usually manage to make others do most of the suffering) > > I guess it's most extreme manifestation is characterised by irrational > belief > in something, and out-of-proportion responses when that belief is > questioned. > > (I am _not_ saying that everyone who believes in Marxism or religion etc > is > irrational...) > > I suspect it's possessed by a few in the Xena fandom, too. ('Fan' comes > from > 'fanatic', after all). The mailing list archives have some classic > examples, I think, of quasi-religious denunciations of Rob Tapert, the > great > heretic, anytime he took the storyline in the 'wrong' direction. > > cr > > >> > On Thursday 29 December 2005 13:16, Laconia wrote: >> >> Very interesting. Speaking of free will and innate programming, what >> >> is >> >> your opinion of people who are religious fundamentalists (of whatever >> >> religion)? >> >> >> >> ***** >> > >> > Flamebait? >> > >> > cr > ========================================================= > This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. > To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with > "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. > Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. > ========================================================= ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V6 #1 ************************************