From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V5 #229 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Wednesday, September 14 2005 Volume 05 : Number 229 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: chakram-refugees-digest V5 #227 [IfeRae@aol.co] Re: SPOILERS!!! Re: [chakram-refugees] Battlestar Galactica-- "Final Cut" [IfeRae@aol.] [chakram-refugees] Sorta OT: NZ on TRAVEL channel [HJJH > D'anna is a Cylon. Now I don't know if reporter D'anna knows she is a Cylon > but I believe she does since she sent to the outtake of Sharon in the > medical center to the Cylons back on Caprica. >> Some Cylons don't know they are? Oh, you mean there could be a human D'anna who doesn't know she has a clone? My understanding is that not all the lookalikes started as human. Have there been any who are copies of a human? And Cheryl? Try very hard not to let your imagination influence your answer. I'm not sure I'll make it through a repeat of the chaky-as-spiritual-entity debate. (Gods, Lucy sure as heck better reprise her role, if I'm gonna hurt my brain this much.) - -- Ife As for Baltar I don't know if > > you could call him a sympathizer since he was tricked into helping the > Cylons and is now going loony with suppressed guilt. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 02:46:14 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: SPOILERS!!! Re: [chakram-refugees] Battlestar Galactica-- "Final Cut" Combining several posts: In a message dated 9/11/2005 9:08:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ktaborn@lightspeed.net writes: > >"Models" meaning that they there sort of clones of a human, like I assume > >Sharon (Boomer?) was? Why are you so certain she's a Cylon? Aren't there > >sympathizers like the VP, or is he Cylon too? > > The VP is not really a sympathizer. He's being manipulated by Number Six, > who may be real or not. I am inclined to think she is. > > Number Six referred to them as models. Sharon is a cylon because we have > seen about 30 different versions of her! (1 on Galactica, a hand full on > Caprica; and a whole herd of them on a base ship). > Okay, I'm still trying to figure out if any of these were based on an actual human. Cheryl seems to be suggesting that there could be a human and a cylon D'anna, though I could be misinterpreting her bat-speak. It seems clear to me that the D'anna on the ship is the same D'anna we saw pre and post ship. > How do you know for sure she's a Cylon? Couldn't she be a sympathizer? << She has to be a cyclon because there is a version of her model on Caprica. The GalacticaBiers is most likely a sleeper agent who doesn't even know she's a Cylon, and her Cylon self took over long enough to transmit the secret part of the tape to her other model on Caprica. >> Have there been no humans who were allies of the cylons? Someone who's been converted to the One God? Someone influential who's been invited to Caprica, but isn't a cylon? What if the person we saw at the end wasn't another version, but the actual D'anna? Oooo, wouldn't it be cool if -- being the journalist she is -- she's a human who pretended to support the cylons so she could learn more about them? They decide they can use her, and she decides she gets the story of the century? She ends up straddling the fence because she wants to get the story? Oooo, or she could be a sleeper cylon, but the journalistic programming makes her straddle the fence for the same reason. She *thinks* she's a human collaborating with/fooling the cylons. But at some point she has to choose sides. Okay, my imagination is getting out of hand. Bat-speak must be contagious. >> The second character played by Lucy is one of the Cylon clones. >> > > Argghhh! This isn't the same D'anna who shot the film? Are any of the > D'anna's human? Probably not. It is unclear in the series whether the clones are based upon real humans or not, but I doubt they are because if they were, why have only 12 models? They could potentially have millions of models if they were using real humans for their models. >> Oh, I get it! You're referring to different versions who can mind meld with each other, but may be at different levels of consciousness in their cylonism. So one Sharon can love and interact with humans differently than other Sharons, depending on their experiences? D'anna on the ship seems to be truly moved by her interviewees because she's a sleeper, but the D'anna at the end is a different version who's well aware she's a cylon. Cheesh. >> (Balter has been having symbolic visions of a Cylon and human union >> resulting >> in a baby, the plot line following Boomer 2 and Helo.) >> > > Ah, so that answers another of my questions. "Our baby" refers to > Boomer's > baby, not a baby Balter and his mental Cylon are having? Yes. In fact, Baltar was confused because he could not figure out how he could have a baby with a hallucination in his head. >> Bwahahahaha! I won't ask if he had more sense before the hallucinations or how he became VP in the first place or if the cylons want him to become president. More brain hurt. >> I believe that Boomer 2 told Commander Adama that there were two more >> undiscovered Cylons within the fleet. That would make Lucy's character >> the >> first of >> the two remaining undiscovered Cylons. >> > > Wait a minute. I saw that ep, and it was before D'anna showed up. Also, > technically she's not part of the fleet, right? I thought that GalacticaBoomer told Baltar that there were 7 more cyclons embedded in the fleet -- that would cover the complete 12 models being present (5 had been disclosed by then). >> So D'anna wouldn't be one of those, right? >> The last scene implies that we will > >> be seeing one or more of Lucy's Cylon character's in future episodes.>> > > We can certainly hope. It was announced at a convention that Biers will make at least another appearance in the 2nd part of season 2. >> Grrrr. They're trying to make me keep watching. Maybe I will, but I refuse to go nuts trying to figure out a lot of the stuff that's not related to D'anna. It's bad enough dealing with the questions about human vs. conscious cylon vs. cylon sleeper vs. cylon versions. Thanks for the explanations. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 02:19:35 -0500 From: HJJH Subject: [chakram-refugees] Sorta OT: NZ on TRAVEL channel Thursday at 6 p.m. & 1 a.m. (Central)-- New Zealand: Movie Paradise Tour the breathtaking New Zealand countryside to discover why it's rural sheep farms and sleepy seaside villages are among the most sought-after movie locations in the world. Tour the capital of Wellington and take a wild flight over Queenstown. ____________________ Hopefully, there just might be a tiny reference to X:WP-- after all, it and Herc opened the industry's eyes to the possibilities. TEXena ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:51:25 -0500 From: "S. Wilson" Subject: Re: SPOILERS!!! Re: [chakram-refugees] Battlestar Galactica-- "Final Cut" At 02:46 AM 9/13/2005 -0400, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: >Okay, I'm still trying to figure out if any of these were based on an actual >human. Cheryl seems to be suggesting that there could be a human and a cylon >D'anna, though I could be misinterpreting her bat-speak. I'm no Cheryl :) but I can explain (hopefully). So far, there seem to be no human "original" for these humaniform cylons (we call 'em "humlons" over on the BSG Over 30 list). The humlons seem to be original creations, and therefore are not clones of each other any more than one Honda Accord is a clone of another Honda Accord (simple way to explain it). But that's only so far as we know right now. We don't know all there is to know yet about the cylons, including who built them apart from "the humans" and why and when they were built, what they were for, and who created the humlons, etc. etc. And we think that when the cylons speak of "models", they're speaking of different humlons - the Six model, the Sharon model, the Loeben model, etc. But again, not sure on that either - they may also mean that the big scary metal cylon droids are a model, and the cylon raider ship is a model, and even the big honkin' base star is a model. We just don't know - yet. > Have there been no humans who were allies of the cylons? Someone who's been >converted to the One God? Someone influential who's been invited to Caprica, >but isn't a cylon? What if the person we saw at the end wasn't another >version, but the actual D'anna? We don't have any evidence yet that there are human allies to the cylons. Baltar himself isn't an ally - he's a conduit or a guinea pig or a cog or something, and has a lot of guilt over what he did to disable Caprica's defenses allowing the cylons to nuke it to smithereens, even though he doesn't remember doing it. He is plagued with guilt, and one of the manifestations of that is that he is haunted by the Six model in his head (Six was originally real - and he was in an intimate relationship with her before the cylon attack, only he didn't know at first that she was a cylon until she told him; but she may have been killed in the attack). But again - - we're not sure if the Six in his head is a real Six being beamed into his head somehow, or if she really just is a part of his imagination and guilt. Okay, and as far as D'Anna: Caprica is sooo far from where the Galactica & fleet is right now that D'Anna would need a ship with FTL ("faster than light" speed) capabilities. The humans and cylons both have FTL capabilities. The cylons took the technology from us and mastered it, though. They can FTL muuuch farther in one jump than the humans can. So if D'Anna wanted to get to Caprica fast, she'd be better off taking a cylon raider or somesuch. And that wouldn't go over too well with Adama. She'd be blasted to bits. GalacitcaD'Anna is just one D'Anna, we know now, because we saw another D'Anna (with a different accent too) on Caprica, a zillion miles away. The Six you saw on Caprica was also a different Six than the one we saw a few weeks ago, or a few weeks before that, and is also different than the Six that's in the fleet right now. Sharon... well, there's a squizillion Sharons. :) Btw, when you hear folks talking about "programming taking over" and such, stuff like that hasn't been totally verified. We're just all kind of trying to figure out how it all works, because we're not sure really how they all operate and why. We do know that they are One God crazy (sound familiar? :P) and determined to succeed humans in being His chosen people. There's a whole background on why the cylons are religious. The short of the long is that cylons want to be real. This is the first line spoken in the mini-series. The whole crusade for realness has brought them to where they look and act and feel like humans, and have adopted all their culture and ways and beliefs, only trying to do it better. Kinda like Ares - all-out peace through all-out war. Their "realness" brings about the debate of whether they're mere machines still, or a whole new race that should be accorded rights and justice. And yet - it's not been revealed if the cylons are getting their direction from a spiritual entity (God), or if there is a master cylon running the show, or if it's a human behind the curtain. > So one Sharon can love and interact with humans differently than other >Sharons, depending on their experiences? They all have different personalities, so yeah, their personality is based on their experiences and memories (memories of childhood and such that never happened). The humlons are essentially us down to the smallest detail inside and out, except so far they can't breed. Their breeding farms are a failure - so they're adopting another human thing, the notion of love. Which is where Helo and CapricaSharon (now GalacticaSharon2 :) come in. >More brain hurt. Hee. It's a fact of life with this show. It can be explained to an outsider joining late, but it's easier viewed so that it isn't akin to untangling Christmas lights. :) >I thought that GalacticaBoomer told Baltar that there were 7 more cyclons >embedded in the fleet -- that would cover the complete 12 models being >present (5 had been disclosed by then). >> > >So D'anna wouldn't be one of those, right? Actually, GalacticaBoomer told Baltar there were 8. And yes, D'Anna would be one of those 8. At the end of the mini-series (also called the pilot), Adama gets a note from someone that says "there are only 12 models of cylon". >It was announced at a convention that Biers will make at least another >appearance in the 2nd part of season 2. >> > >Grrrr. They're trying to make me keep watching. Maybe I will, but I refuse >to go nuts trying to figure out a lot of the stuff that's not related to >D'anna. It's bad enough dealing with the questions about human vs. conscious >cylon >vs. cylon sleeper vs. cylon versions. LOL Every Christmas I just go out and buy new Christmas lights. :) S. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V5 #229 **************************************