From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V5 #209 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Saturday, August 20 2005 Volume 05 : Number 209 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Amazon sucession [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena DVD Sale [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Amazon sucession [cr ] [chakram-refugees] Vote Xena ["Cheryl Ande" ] [chakram-refugees] right of caste question.... ["Mark B." >Incidentally, on another tack, I've always thought Xena was an Amazon - > >certainly she merited Amazon status, even if the Amazons were remarkably > >snobbish about not recognizing her as such, especially in the later > seasons > >- - I've found confirmation from an unexpected source - in The Quest - > "Xena > >was a true Amazon, even though she denied it" - said by an Amazon queen, > no > >less - Velasca. > > Xena is not an Amazon. I doubt if she would even want to be an Amazon. > Frankly she doesn't seem to like the Amazon way of life, as she said in > Kindred Spirits the communal stuff gets on her nerves. Xena is nothing if > not the ultimate individualist - she doesn't play well with others and is > not a joiner. >> I agree wth you. I think Velasca, Melosa and other Amazons admired Xena's abilities and perhaps wished she were one of them. Others (like that Centaur they captured) assumed she was an Amazon because of those abilities. Cyane gave Evil Xena the chance to be an Amazon, but Xena demonstrated her "That's not fore me" response by nearly wiping out the host tribe. I saw nothing to suggest she made amends with the Amazons before "Hooves," let alone became one, until Sin Trade, when she served briefly as a leader for the baby Amazons. I think it was one of the ironies of the show that the greatest female warrior had once been the enemy (rather than "sister") of other female warriors. I saw nothing in any of the Amazon eps to indicate the Amazons considered Xena as "belonging" to them. They didn't allow her in their ceremonies. Despite her obviously superior battle experience, they wouldn't even follow her command unless Gabrielle or another leader gave the okay. Xena herself denied being an Amazon to that Centaur and certainly never claimed she was when it might've been useful to do so. Perhaps cr is using "Amazon" generically -- i.e., "amazon" in the broad sense of someone who acted like a female warrior. But in the context of the show, the Amazons were a defined culture with processes for determining membership. They were not one-dimensional, but had traditions beyond war which Xena could never have accepted. Xena was singular. She couldn't be categorized. She had slept and fought with natural enemies, betrayed supposed friends. She'd infiltrated cultures the world over when it suited her and abandoned them when it did not. Even her own mother and home village repudiated her at first when she tried to reclaim then. Perhaps she might be considered a "true" Amazon for some of her qualities, but I certainly wouldn't rely on Velasca's self-serving comment as the sole evidence that Xena was one "officially." - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 06:38:58 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena DVD Sale On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 15:07, Cheryl Ande wrote: > There is a great sale for Xena and Hercules DVDs at Deep Discount DVD > (www.deepdiscountdvd.com). > > The Xena 10th anniversary DVD is $28.77. All the seasons are selling for > $38.37 and the Hercules season DVDs are going for $33.57 ( the last season > is 19.17). There other TV shows also and the shipping is free. So check > it out. > > CherylA And, the first season of Herc is (IIRC) $9-95, and it apparently includes the Herc tele-movies and of course the Warrior Princess trilogy cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 07:12:03 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Amazon sucession On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 17:59, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 7/30/2005 8:34:19 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > candex@verizon.net writes: > > CR said: > > >Incidentally, on another tack, I've always thought Xena was an Amazon - > > >certainly she merited Amazon status, even if the Amazons were remarkably > > >snobbish about not recognizing her as such, especially in the later > > > seasons > > >- - I've found confirmation from an unexpected source - in The Quest - > > > "Xena > > > was a true Amazon, even though she denied it" - said by an Amazon queen, > > > no less - Velasca. > > > > Xena is not an Amazon. I doubt if she would even want to be an Amazon. > > Frankly she doesn't seem to like the Amazon way of life, as she said in > > Kindred Spirits the communal stuff gets on her nerves. Xena is nothing > > if not the ultimate individualist - she doesn't play well with others and > > is not a joiner. >> > > I agree wth you. I think Velasca, Melosa and other Amazons admired Xena's > abilities and perhaps wished she were one of them. Others (like that > Centaur they captured) assumed she was an Amazon because of those > abilities. Cyane gave Evil Xena the chance to be an Amazon, but Xena > demonstrated her "That's not fore me" response by nearly wiping out the > host tribe. I saw nothing to suggest she made amends with the Amazons > before "Hooves," let alone became one, until Sin Trade, when she served > briefly as a leader for the baby Amazons. I think it was one of the > ironies of the show that the greatest female warrior had once been the > enemy (rather than "sister") of other female warriors. > > I saw nothing in any of the Amazon eps to indicate the Amazons considered > Xena as "belonging" to them. Except of course, in The Quest, they very forcefully insisted that Xena be given an Amazon funeral - and went quite bananas when Auto stole her body. If that's not 'belonging' I don't know what is. And I seem to remember Xena was entirely accepted as a member of the group in Kindred Spirits. > They didn't allow her in their ceremonies. Yeah, though that was (I think) mostly in later episodes, and I suspect it was somewhat influenced by the interests of the plot - especially of course in Helicon. Xena was certainly present at enough Amazon ceremonies - for example, Ephiny's funeral at the end of Endgame, the dancing at the end of Lifeblood, I expect there are quite a few more I can't be bothered to remember right now - without question. I suspect Xena's eligibility had more to do with the exigencies of the plot, than her acceptability to the Amazons.... > Despite her obviously superior battle experience, they wouldn't even follow > her command unless Gabrielle or another leader gave the okay. Not invariably - sometimes (as in Endgame) Xena's deference towards Gabs was more a matter of keeping up appearances than a requirement of the Amazons. (I think they - and not just Amarice - were probably rather taken aback by Gabby's pacifist streak). In fact I'm sure that in Endgame, having just lost Ephiny, they would have taken Xena's advice unhesitatingly, regardless of whether Gabby had been there to give it the official seal of approval. > Xena herself > denied being an Amazon to that Centaur and certainly never claimed she was > when it might've been useful to do so. Perhaps cr is using "Amazon" > generically -- i.e., "amazon" in the broad sense of someone who acted like > a female warrior. Yeah, I was using it figuratively - the best-known characteristic of the Amazons was their independence and their warlike ways - Xena surely exemplified that. > But in the context of the show, the Amazons were a > defined culture with processes for determining membership. Even though their rules were on occasion rather ill-defined > They were not > one-dimensional, but had traditions beyond war which Xena could never have > accepted. Agreed. > Xena was singular. She couldn't be categorized. She had slept and fought > with natural enemies, betrayed supposed friends. She'd infiltrated > cultures the world over when it suited her and abandoned them when it did > not. Even her own mother and home village repudiated her at first when she > tried to reclaim then. Perhaps she might be considered a "true" Amazon for > some of her qualities, but I certainly wouldn't rely on Velasca's > self-serving comment as the sole evidence that Xena was one "officially." > > -- Ife Self-serving? What, exactly, did Velasca have to gain by that? If anything, it strengthened the position of Xena's associate Gabby, who (I would have thought) Velasca would have wanted as far away as possible. If it was self-serving, it could only have been because it was the popular opinion in Amazon circles. But that quote of Velasca's just appealed to my sense of irony. I love tossing these stones into the pond to see what ripples they cause cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 22:26:46 -0400 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Vote Xena Go here and vote for Xena as the best show. The site is begging for people to stuff the ballot box so we should oblige. By the way Xena is being beaten by Angel (a good show but no Xena). http://richlabonte.net/tvvote/ CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 21:05:46 -0500 From: "Mark B." Subject: [chakram-refugees] right of caste question.... I was rewatching 'The Quest' for the first time in quite a while and was puzzled by something that was said. I remember thinking about it before, but don't recall if it was ever discussed. When the Amazons drop out of the trees and pay tribute to Xena's body, they say that Velasca had challenged and killed Queen Melosa in combat. But then they say that Gabrielle will be the queen, now that she is back. If a ruling queen in challenged and killed, wouldn't that negate any right of ascension by someone given the right of caste???? Mark ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V5 #209 **************************************