From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V5 #191 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Saturday, July 30 2005 Volume 05 : Number 191 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [chakram-refugees] Amazon succession... [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Amazon succession... [Richan@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2005 03:16:14 +1200 From: cr Subject: [chakram-refugees] Amazon succession... I have a puzzle over Amazon succession (yeah, yet another one....) It arose because I'm trying to put together a page on Lion Park, where there were (I've deduced) at least three Amazon villages... anyway, one of them served for the Amazon village in Endgame, Lifeblood and Kindred Spirits - which is a minor YAXI since Endgame was the Greek amazons (Ephiny's tribe) while Lifeblood / KS were the Northern (Siberian) Amazons (Cyane / Yakut's tribe). Right so far? They were quite separate tribes, right? :) Just to establish this better - leaders in brackets - The Greek Amazons were first seen in Hooves & Harlots (Melosa, Ephiny), then in The Quest (Velasca, Ephiny), then in Bitter Suite (Ephiny), then in Endgame (Ephiny). They were next seen in Coming Home (Marga, Varia), Dangerous Prey (Marga, Varia), then in Path of Vengeance (Varia) where the tribes came together, and in Helicon. The Siberian Amazons were first seen in Sin Trade (Yakut, Cyane/Vicky Pratt), then in Them Bones (Yakut), then in Lifeblood (Cyane/Shelley Edwards), which showed where the first Cyane(/Selma Blair) came from. Then Kindred Spirits (Cyane/Shelley Edwards), which also featured Morgan Reese Fairchild as Eris. Next we saw, in Path of Vengeance, the tribes had come together and Eris had succeeded to the title of Cyane (Amazon leaders had a very short shelf life!) And the combined tribes continued together in Helicon (Varia, Cyane/Morgan Reese Fairchild). Have I got that right so far? So, the two tribes were quite distinct until Path of Vengeance. So.... how, in Lifeblood, could Gabby give her *Greek* Right of Caste that she got in Hooves & Harlots, to Eve in the *Siberian* Amazon tribe? Answers on a postcard, please...... Incidentally, on another tack, I've always thought Xena was an Amazon - certainly she merited Amazon status, even if the Amazons were remarkably snobbish about not recognising her as such, especially in the later seasons - - I've found confirmation from an unexpected source - in The Quest - "Xena was a true Amazon, even though she denied it" - said by an Amazon queen, no less - Velasca. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 11:46:41 EDT From: Richan@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Amazon succession... Cr, when you started asking your questions about how many Amazon tribes existed, it jogged my memory. The barrows of the Scythians. "We do know, however, that in one important respect, they were very different from the mounted archers who came after them: many of their best and most celebrated warriors--or at least given the most elaborate funerals--were women. It was almost certainly these Scythian warrioresses who inspired the Greek depictions of the Amazons. Herodotus wrote that "No Scythian woman may marry until she has killed a man of the enemy." These reports, and the evidence of Scythian and Saurmatian (a Scythian subgroup) art and craft were routinely dismissed until the latter part of the 20th century, when Scythian women were found buried in their riding clothing--identical to that of men--together with their bows, swords, and horses." _http://www.turanianhorse.org/scythians.html_ (http://www.turanianhorse.org/scythians.html) I've spent an enjoyable amount of time searching for sources that the writers of XWP might of used for the series. And while I can see the obvious connections I sometimes think the writers accidentally get history more right than they knowingly intend. In this particular case I believe that while you ask how many tribes of Amazons there are. You might as well well ask how many tribes of Scythians there are. Scythian history it turns out is surprisingly similar to Amazon history as portryed in XWP. "From the end of the 7th century to the 3rd century BC, the Scythians occupied the steppe from the north Black Sea area, from the Don in the east to the Danube in the west. Among all those Scythians tribes, the most distinguishing tribe is called the Royal Scythians. With the Royal Scythians playing the dominant role, nomad Scythians, the Callipidae, the Alizones, agricultural Scythians and ploughing Scythians hold a submissive position. While the Royal and Nomad scythians led the nomadic lives, the Callipidae and Alizones lived in semi-nomadic style. Of course ploughing Scythians definitely were sedentary agriculturalists. According to Herodotus, the Callipidae or the Graeco-Scythians lived not far from Olbia, at the mouth of the Bug. To the north, there lived the Alizones; and further north the ploughing Scythians covered the area between the Dnieper and Bug. The Nomad Scythians occupied the steppes of the Azov Sea area and the left and right banks of the Dnieper. Most scholars believe that both banks of the lower Bug as far as the River Konka were the lands of the Nomad Scythians while the Royal Scythians roamed lands further east and south as far as the Don. Lastly the nomadic Scythians occupied at the Altai region of Siberia are called Kindred Scythians or Eastern Scythians." _http://www.silk-road.com/artl/scythian.shtml_ (http://www.silk-road.com/artl/scythian.shtml) This article lists Royal Scythians, nomad Scythians, and agricultural/plowing Scythians. These might be said to correspond to the three Amazon tribes you note both form and function. Additionally, the areas you mention as home territories match the areas described as Scythian homelands. On a hopelessly hysterically funny note, the Scythians eventually evolve into the Sarmations. " The Sauromatae are mentioned by Herodotus as the descendants of Scythian fathers and Amazon mothers. Of course, this is a legend, but the tribe did exist and was to move to the west after 130 BCE. In the process, they assimilated the Royal Scythians (_above_ (http://www.livius.org/sao-sd/scythians/scythians.html#royal) ). In the late first century BCE, the _Sarmatian_ (http://www.livius.org/sao-sd/sarmatians/sarmatians.html) coalition consisted of four tribes: * The Iazyges, which had once lived on the shores of the Sea of Azov, were now living on the northern bank of the Danube. They were to move to what is now eastern Hungary, where they settled in c.50 CE. They were defeated by the Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius (in 175). * The Urgi lived on the banks of the Dnepr, south of Kiev. * The Royal Scythians were still living in the south of Ukraine and had become the most important Sarmatian tribe. They and the Urgi became known as the Sarmati. The Romans seem to have accepted their settlement in Hungary, but the situation was sometimes tense. The Sarmati were, for example, responsible for the destruction of the _Twenty-first legion Rapax_ (http://www.livius.org/le-lh/legio/xxi_rapax.html) in 92. * The Roxolani initially lived between the Don and the Dnepr but settled on the lower reaches of the Danube, where the Iazyges had been living before they migrated to Hungary." _http://www.livius.org/sao-sd/scythians/scythians.html_ (http://www.livius.org/sao-sd/scythians/scythians.html) In the recent movie "King Arthur" Samtian Roman axillaries remain in Briton and form the "Knights of the Round Table." I always wondered who exactly those guys were in "Gabrielle's Hope," They are Smartians. And as to whether Xena is an Amazon--the sword in the stone recognizes her gene sequence as Scythian/Amazon/Sarmatian. Talk about Amazon succession! Richan ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V5 #191 **************************************