From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V5 #164 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Wednesday, June 29 2005 Volume 05 : Number 164 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Season 2... [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Bruce Campbell book signing appearance [IfeRae@aol] [chakram-refugees] Hero-Defining Opponents (was Re: Return of Callisto) [] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Con 05 Meeting Lucy [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Season 2... [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] OT Bruce Campbel film on IFC [cr ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 01:50:00 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Season 2... In a message dated 6/26/2005 1:13:19 AM Pacific Daylight Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > >This may be a case where the acting/interpretation wasn't so hot. I don't > >envy the women chosen to play the Fates, as it seemed different writers had > >different views of them and they were often played by different people. I > >generally focused on Xena's reaction for cues, rather than on the Fates. > > > >-- Ife > > I'd agree there - that the interpretation may have been a bit lacking, > though > whether that came from the writers or the director ... umm, it was written > by > Steve Sears and Chris Manheim, who usually know what they're doing. > This was a very early appearance of the Fates. > > My general impression is that the Fates were usually impartial. > I watched "God Fearing Child" the other day. The Fates in that were like zombies. The Furies had a lot more "life" and consistency, perhaps because most of the actors were the same. But I also think the writers envisioned a more active role for them. I'm not sure they ever saw the Fates as more than a concrete way to dabble in destiny vs. gods vs. free will vs. happenstance. I don't recall reading much about them in mythology, so I don't know whether they were described much beyond their weaving, spinning and spinning duties. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 01:50:01 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Bruce Campbell book signing appearance In a message dated 6/27/2005 11:36:13 AM Pacific Daylight Time, xenatorres@bitchofrome.com writes: > Yeah, yeah, yeah - I KNOW I STILL haven't finished by convention review (it > will be all I am working on today, I promise), I had to write this all down, > because I didn't bring a notebook. > > BRUCE CAMPBELL BOOK SIGNING > Sunday, June 26, 2005 >> Bruce isn't Lucy, but I did feel obligated to peruse this report anyway. > your camera, because if you cant figure it out, neither can we.>> Cheryl? You listening? > > After about an hour of waiting, Bruce returned to the microphone again and > pointed out Howard Berger who had just come in. Sweet! Okay, let me tell you > who he is. Howard Berger is one of the founding men of the K.N.B. EFX Group > (K.N.B is their names: Kurtzman, Nicotero and Berger) and the team has done > special effects (not CGI, the real stuff) for Xena, Hercules, Kill Bill, Sin > City, Cursed and Blade 3 to name a few. >> Ah, the things I learn from you nerds. Sweet! They are in town shooting a project (which they did not name, though the only > movie I know of right now being shot in Vancouver stars Jennifer Garner, so > maybe). Well, darn right I went over to meet the guy, and ooooh, hes > wearing a Narnia shirt, so I needed to get more information: >> Narnia? Is this something a middle-aged person living in the 21st Century should know about? (Gods, I hope it's not a rock group. Do they have "rock" groups anymore? ) > > So, currently only The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe has been shot. Based > on the success of the movie, possibly all seven books may be made into > films. Prince Caspin will be the second movie if The Lion, the Witch and the > Wardrobe is successful. EVERYONE MUST GO! GO! GO! >> Hmmm, apparently I am indeed behind in my education. At least I've figured Narnia's probably not a rock group. > All in all, it was like a very tiny convention with only one guest, but, > hey A) it was free and B) it was Bruce  so I had a blast! >> I'm happy for you. Especially the "free" part. No doubt your budget was stretched by the new camera and $75 nosebleed seets for GPB. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 01:49:59 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: [chakram-refugees] Hero-Defining Opponents (was Re: Return of Callisto) In a message dated 6/26/2005 1:13:21 AM Pacific Daylight Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > >They seem to give her something more to play > >off of, which I think she really appreciated about Hudson. You could see > >sparks even when nothing was being said. Also, each one of those brought > >out a different aspect of Xena's conflicted heroism, especially in > >reminding her of her past. With weaker characters, like Cortes, she could > >be straight out Xena, with few of the psychological tweaks we'd get with, > >say, Ares or Cally. I think TPTB did a great job with some of the casting > >as well as the writing, in that regard. > > Oh yes. And you could certainly add Alti/Claire to that list. Though my > > favourite mental image is of Alti impaled on the tree and Xena gently drifts > > up alongside her and says softly "Now you know your future" (beautiful > restrained delivery from LL on that line, by the way). >> I started to add Alti/Claire and left her off for reasons that had nothing to do with the actor or the character. I really liked both. The thing about that match-up for me was less of the psychological tension I felt with some of the other strong characters. Yes, Alti reminded Xena of her naughty past, but I don't think Alti represented the same conflicted connection with Xena, even tho Xena had contributed to Alti's spiritual powers. Alti was pure, self-aggrandizing evil, unlike Ares, Callisto or even Njara. She had no purpose other than her own acquisition of power. I believe even Caesar truly felt he was what was best for Rome. It's hard to explain, but I always felt these other characters brought out more complicated responses in Xena/Lucy. They forced her to deal with a wider range of emotions, to understand where they were coming from as individuals. There was something in her relationship with Ares and Cally that ultimately led her to "save" them in some way. She had a brief (if misguided) spell of open-mindedness toward Njara when she thought Njara might be good for Gabs. She could respond more straightforwardly to Alti as an object of loathing that needed destroying without hesitation, ifs, buts or ands -- no negotiation, no discussion, no jail, certainly not the bit of doubt she felt when she let Cally sink in the quicksand. Mind you, I loved the interplays -- the sarcasm, Xena's disgust and ingenuity, Alti's obsession with Xena, the battles of will. It's just that I don't think -- as a "person" -- she helped Xena define her own humanity or what she was made of, the way some others did, whether in small or large ways. To me, the hero is defined by more than opponents' might or perseverance. I think she is magnified by opponents who call upon her inner strength, take her out of her comfort zone, evokes personal demons (e.g., bloodlust, guilt, self-doubt) that she must conquer as well. She choses to fight despite that and even when there's ambiguity or ambivalence about issues like justice, the effect on an empire or if the opponent's "damaged." Alti was clearly a danger under any circumstances, yet without her evil powers, she was nothing to anyone. No one followed her out of love, respect or admiration. Killing her was like squishing a disease-bearing fly. I agree that Alti was a wonderful addition as a nemesis for Xena. The battles between them equaled or surpassed those with other characters I've mentioned. However, purely in the sense of the hero's growth or motivation, Alti was a "no brainer." She required heroic action, but not much in the way of depth, nuance, complexity, conflictedness, etc. in terms of the hero's emotinal/psychological response to her. >> There are so many bits where I wonder if the > >actor will ever get as good a role and opportunity to shine as she/he had > >on Xena. > > > Not that this is Xena-related, it's Herc-related, but I was just having a > discussion on some list about Gina Torres' role in the Joss Whedon movie > 'Serenity' (which is the movie sequel to the short-lived 'Firefly' series). > > And, having seen Gina as Nebula on Herc, as Hel on Cleo 2525, as Zoe in > Firefly, and briefly guesting as a villain on Alias, I have to say that > Nebula was by far the best role she had (IMO). I don't doubt it. Despite all I said above about Alti, I thought she was a great vehicle for Claire and deserves an esteemed place among the pantheon of hero's opponents. I believe XWP created a new standard for such judgements. If I'm picky, it's within that context and because we got such a layered view of the hero and heroism. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 01:50:05 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Con 05 Meeting Lucy In a message dated 6/25/2005 10:07:21 PM Pacific Daylight Time, candex@verizon.net writes: > Actually I thought she was your friend and she took it with a cell phone > but > I am obviously. But I have to say between the wine and the Lucy haze thing > are still a bit hazy. >. In which case, I'm not sure you can accurately say, "I am obviously." Bwahahahaha! > I am shy, really.>> Except in public? > the impression given by KT, I am not a souse, but the wine was free and it > would have been impolite to turn it down and my mother raised me to have > good manners.>> Too late. Between the bats and KT's report, your reputation is forever sealed. > Now lets face it KT wanted a picture with Lucy - everyone wants picture > with > Lucy. I wasn't going to let this golden opportunity pass her by - damnit. >> > Oooo, you accusing KT of being like "everyone"? Not good. The woman is one of a kind. Like her Good Twin. > This has to be the most embarrassing moment of my life. I have not only > hauled my friend around by her shirt tails and delivered her to Lucy Lawless > like naughty kitten, I then failed in my mission to get the picture (bad > wine). >> Nah, we're proud of ya. Dragging KT was an accomplishment in and of itself. Anybody can snap a photo. Um, well, almost anybody. But, like KT, you're not just anybody. How's that for "spin"? I was however very pleased that some one got the picture. I hope> > that KT got a copy if not I have it now and it will be in my scrape book > soon. >> I have hopes that it will appear elsewhere as well. Heh. > > As far as I know I didn't drool and obviously I wasn't speechless. >> "As far as I know" being the operative part of the "I didn't drool" part. It was> > however wonderful to meet her and to see for myself what a patient and kind > person Lucy is. She was grace personified. I will always rememeber the > last words she said to me: she said "I'm going home and eat pie." >> No offense, but do you have a corroborating witness to her last words to you? Being semi-deaf from the jackhammer trauma of you childhood, you might've misheard. Beneath> > all the glamour and fame is a nice woman who likes pie and I'm proud to be > her fan. I just wish that damn camera would have worked (mumble, grumble, > curse). > Did you ever figure out the problem? Was it you? - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 07:30:11 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Season 2... On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 17:50, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: (snip) > > > > My general impression is that the Fates were usually impartial. > > I watched "God Fearing Child" the other day. The Fates in that were like > zombies. The Furies had a lot more "life" and consistency, perhaps because > most of the actors were the same. But I also think the writers envisioned > a more active role for them. I'm not sure they ever saw the Fates as more > than a concrete way to dabble in destiny vs. gods vs. free will vs. > happenstance. I don't recall reading much about them in mythology, so I > don't know whether they were described much beyond their weaving, spinning > and spinning duties. > > -- Ife Yes, I think exactly the same. The Furies did cross my mind as a contrast. Maybe it's an obvious comparison. In their first appearance, the Furies did seem to be kind of impartial - Ares had to ask them for some sort of justice against Xena, for example. (An interesting parallel with Nemesis, on Herc, there). (In other ways, the Furies' first appearance was, let's say, striking, to say the least. To paraphrase Rob Tapert, "I'm surprised we were allowed to show that on television!" ) But later on, the Furies started to get a little over-enthusiastic and to show poltical ambitions. The Fates were always kind of flat and neutral. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 07:09:20 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] OT Bruce Campbel film on IFC On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 05:44, Xena Torres wrote: > >>From what I remember having read, I believe this is the movie where Josh > >> tried an interesting >>technique - that of having no visible 'cuts' at > >> all. > > That's correct. > > >I hadn't realised Jeremy Roberts was in it - I think he died a short while > > ago. > > *cough* He did NOT! Jeez, cr, don't freak me out like that. I've had the > pleasure of interviewing Jeremy and he's a really nice guy. He did have a > heart attack in 2004 (might have been 2003), but he did not die. You can > even catch him in "Herbie: Fully Loaded" next. Hey, that's great to hear! I definitely recall hearing that something bad had happened to Jeremy, and I'm fairly sure that it was that he had 'died'. Now maybe it was 'heart attack' and somebody (me or whoever relayed the news) had assumed it was fatal. But anyway, I'm so glad he's still around. > > But I have a great regard for his acting abilities - he was the flaky > > Thersites, Aidan, the >runaway prisoner and Xerxos. Four characters so > > different I never realised they were all the same >actor till I looked > > them up. > > I could be wrong, but wasn't it Xerxes? ;) I'm fairly sure it was pronounced Xerxos.... since he got star billing, of course, there is no cast list entry to check it against. > Yes, he played all those parts > indeed. And for you Buffy fans he was the great big vampire that appeared > in Faith's first episode. He's also been on X-Files, Star Trek and can > currently be seen as the mean boss in that....twix? commerical. I can't > remember the candy. The guy makes a little paper figure and talks like his > boss who then walks in - the boss is Jeremy. Not seen in this country.... Anyway, there are certain actors - what could we call them, 'journeyman actors' ? - who will probably never make star billing but who are always competent and good to see on screen. Jeremy Roberts is definitely one. Maybe Bruce Campbell too. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V5 #164 **************************************