From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V5 #91 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Saturday, April 9 2005 Volume 05 : Number 091 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Best of Xena DVD [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Best of Xena DVD [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Aphrodite in the hands of the Taliban? [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Best of Xena DVD ["abqbeach" ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Best of Xena DVD ["Xena Torres" ] Re: [chakram-refugees] The Debt - gotta ask [Jean ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Best of Xena DVD [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Best of Xena DVD [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] The Debt - gotta ask [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Best of Xena DVD [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] The Debt - gotta ask [Sekhmet209@aol.com] [chakram-refugees] OT: Sword and Staff [Junejanu@aol.com] [chakram-refugees] Best of Xena DVD ["Cheryl Ande" ] [chakram-refugees] LoDuca a plunderer? [KLOSSNER9@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 18:57:07 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Best of Xena DVD On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 12:29, meredith wrote: > Hi, > > Thanks to abbagirl for alerting me to the Best of Xena DVD box set final > selections: > > > > At first I thought "hmm, good list", but then I realized that "The Debt" IS > NOT ON IT. > > "Old Ares Had A Farm" is going to be on the Best of Xena DVD Box Set, and > "The Debt" is not. > > I'm going to let that one marinate for a second. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What the FRELL are people thinking?!?!? > > It's official. > > I have now lost all faith in the Xenaverse. > > (I am irrationally irritated by this ... Mercury must be retrograde > again. But come ON, people.) > > Disappointedly yours, > Well, so, what do you expect? Sin Trade isn't on it either. Nor is the Ring trilogy. It's got several eps - ITADITH, ADITL, One Against an Army - that I can't be bothered watching. 'Sacrifice' 1 or 2 didn't make it. I'm just rather surprised that 'Motherhood' did (though that's an ep that I love). I suppose I'm a bit surprised that Friend in Need made it, but I guess it was only possible to vote _for_ episodes, not against them, so the FIN - haters had no say in the matter (other than to vote for When Farts Collude and (yawn) Many Happy Returns). I guess the above is just a statement of my prejudices. Why I'm never likely to want to buy somebody else's choice of the 'best' episodes. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 19:00:35 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Best of Xena DVD On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 16:10, Mirrordrum wrote: > well, yeah but you *know* many xenites [glancing pointedly at two in > particular] will be willing to forgive the omission of the debts and > as long as and have been included. > > md ;) > I assume you were being facetious there cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 20:01:09 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Aphrodite in the hands of the Taliban? On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 03:11, meredith wrote: (snip) > > It's a very sticky situation, granted. But I don't think the Taliban can > be equitably compared to grave robbers or antiquities collectors. I was just making the point that vandals are worse (IMO) than thieves. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 10:12:51 +0100 From: "a.reddecliffe" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Best of Xena DVD I've just checked on the choices. "Interesting" is probably the most diplomatic word for it. In some ways it is a representative selection of the episodes, rather than the best of the episodes. Everything from lightweight comedies to drama. Thing is they have chosen the controversial dramas - FIN and Motherhood, the ones that polarised the fans, you love those episodes or you hate them. Sorry, shows like Many Happy Returns or Ares farm just do not rate in the same class as shows like The Debt. Very peculiar choices. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2005 13:44:01 -0500 From: "S. Wilson" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Best of Xena DVD At 10:12 AM 4/8/2005 +0100, a.reddecliffe wrote: >I've just checked on the choices. "Interesting" is probably the most >diplomatic word for it. In some ways it is a representative selection of >the episodes, rather than the best of the episodes. Everything from >lightweight comedies to drama. Thing is they have chosen the controversial >dramas - FIN and Motherhood, the ones that polarised the fans, you love >those episodes or you hate them. > >Sorry, shows like Many Happy Returns or Ares farm just do not rate in the >same class as shows like The Debt. Very peculiar choices. I agree. I went to see with open eyes, but the list just does not seem like the Best of Xena. The glaring omissions have already been mentioned... ouch. No point in going back over them. And anyone who aggressively markets stuff to Xena fans online *has* to know that the Debts is usually the first thing we think of when we think Best Of (everyone has their own tastes, but in my humble years in the fandom, Debts-appreciation gets passed around frequently, sort of like the benchmark of all that is epic and great in XWP, and would be hard to miss on polls where the fans are asked about their favorites). Too bad. Gonna give this a pass. S. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2005 15:02:11 -0500 From: "abqbeach" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Best of Xena DVD > I agree. I went to see with open eyes, but the list just does not seem like > the Best of Xena. The glaring omissions have already been mentioned... > ouch. No point in going back over them. And anyone who aggressively markets > stuff to Xena fans online *has* to know that the Debts is usually the first > thing we think of when we think Best Of (everyone has their own tastes, but > in my humble years in the fandom, Debts-appreciation gets passed around > frequently, sort of like the benchmark of all that is epic and great in > XWP, and would be hard to miss on polls where the fans are asked about > their favorites). These eps were chosen by a poll of the fans. From what I've seen, the Xena/Ares crowd were very active in encouraging votes. That explains Old Ares Had a Farm. angie in NM http://xenawp.org ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2005 13:52:37 -0700 From: "Xena Torres" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Best of Xena DVD >Sorry, shows like Many Happy Returns or Ares farm just do not rate in the >same class as shows like >The Debt. Of course not, they are competely different kinds of shows. You can't really compare them side by side. "Old Ares Had a Farm" IS one of my fav Xena eps. Not my top ten, mind you, but certainly ranks up there. It's funny as all hell and I love it. One of my fav comedies. But "Many Happy Returns"? Um...funny? Sure. Top ten eps of ALL time? HELL NO! For me, dramas always rank higher than comedies. "The Debt" has to be one of the greatest achievements in TV history. You can't compare ANY other show or "Xena" episode to "The Debt" for OVERALL perfection (character, plot, story, writing, directing, drama, acting, costumes, music, makeup, sets, etc, etc, etc). I am shocked it didn't make the top ten list. FIN - no surprise. As Rob said, the people who didn't like it were vocal, but the ep scored well. Also, in Canada, when Space had a fan choice Xena-a-thon, many of the eps selected for this set were also the eps selected. I believe FIN was choices 3 and 2 of top ten and "The Bitter Suite" was #1. I think. I don't remember completely. I'd have to double check (why, yes, I DID tape it!) BATTLE ON XENA! Xena Torres: Warrior Writer http://www.geocities.com/bitchofrome "And most importantly, I've learned that the heart can betray, but the sword never lies." - Eve "Heart of Darkness" ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2005 13:56:33 -0700 From: "Xena Torres" Subject: [chakram-refugees] The Debt - gotta ask Hmm. You know, all this shock that "The Debt" was not on the DVD list, I gotta ask: Who here would rank "The Debt" as their FAV ep? I LOVE "The Debt" and do think they are the best overall ep. HOWEVER, it's NOT my TOP ep. (my top three are "Eve," "Fallen Angel" and "The Bitter Suite.") We could only vote for ONE ep, so I wonder if that made a difference. Also, were people maybe voting for their second or third choice maybe in attempts to get them on the set, figuring the obvious eps were covered? Wondering... BATTLE ON XENA! Xena Torres: Warrior Writer http://www.geocities.com/bitchofrome "And most importantly, I've learned that the heart can betray, but the sword never lies." - Eve "Heart of Darkness" ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2005 17:02:42 -0400 From: meredith Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] The Debt - gotta ask Hi, >Hmm. You know, all this shock that "The Debt" was not on the DVD list, I >gotta ask: > >Who here would rank "The Debt" as their FAV ep? *raises hand* =============================================== Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth =============================================== hear at the HOMe House Concert Series http://hom.smoe.org =============================================== ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2005 16:13:02 -0700 From: Jean Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] The Debt - gotta ask on 4/8/05 1:56 PM, Xena Torres at xenatorres@hotmail.com wrote: > Who here would rank "The Debt" as their FAV ep? > > I LOVE "The Debt" and do think they are the best overall ep. HOWEVER, it's > NOT my TOP ep. (my top three are "Eve," "Fallen Angel" and "The Bitter > Suite.") We could only vote for ONE ep, so I wonder if that made a > difference. Also, were people maybe voting for their second or third choice > maybe in attempts to get them on the set, figuring the obvious eps were > covered? I LOVE The Debt (1&2) and they are always on my top ten lists. But not the ONE when I can ONLY choose one. I think I would reserve that honor for "Ides of March". The Debt is strong enough that the DVD producers could release it on it's own sans any other collective episodes, IMHO. It is so very hard to choose only one episode favorite because of all the interesting directions X:WP went. - -Hawk ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:45:47 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Best of Xena DVD On Sat, 09 Apr 2005 06:44, S. Wilson wrote: > I agree. I went to see with open eyes, but the list just does not seem like > the Best of Xena. The glaring omissions have already been mentioned... > ouch. No point in going back over them. And anyone who aggressively markets > stuff to Xena fans online *has* to know that the Debts is usually the first > thing we think of when we think Best Of (everyone has their own tastes, but > in my humble years in the fandom, Debts-appreciation gets passed around > frequently, sort of like the benchmark of all that is epic and great in > XWP, and would be hard to miss on polls where the fans are asked about > their favorites). I'd have to agree with you there (even though my personal favourite is Sin Trade - but stilll, 'Debts' would have to be in my top ten). I think maybe the list is the sort of thing you get when a small (statistically too small) number of people vote - individual preferences and idiosyncracies pop up and the sample is too small to smooth them out - or, as public opinion pollsters would say, the margin of error is too great. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 13:07:15 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Best of Xena DVD On Sat, 09 Apr 2005 08:02, abqbeach wrote: > > These eps were chosen by a poll of the fans. From what I've seen, the > Xena/Ares crowd were very active in encouraging votes. That explains > Old Ares Had a Farm. That might also account for 'Motherhood' and 'Amphipolis Under Siege' (both of which are excellent eps IMO but not generally regarded as being 'Top Ten', I think). But that wouldn't explain Many Happy Returns. What could explain it might be a number of 'pressure groups' each pushing their own interests - and since The Debts didn't have Ares in it for more than a few seconds, and wasn't subtexty (or at least, not warm-fuzzy-subtexty), it missed out. I don't know of any Xenafan pressure group who are primarily dedicated to great cinematography and beautiful, ironic writing, unfortunately. I think that sort of quirky distribution is what you might expect if you have a number of 'pressure groups' (call them what you will) pushing in different directions and an insufficently large total poll to 'swamp' their idiosyncracies. I'm not sure if anyone copied the list but here it is: SINS OF THE PAST (S.1) CALLISTO (S.1) IS THERE A DOCTOR IN THE HOUSE (S.1) A DAY IN THE LIFE (S.2) BEEN THERE DONE THAT (S.3) THE BITTER SUITE (S.3) ONE AGAINST AN ARMY (S.3) THE IDES OF MARCH (S.4) FALLEN ANGEL (S.5) LYRE, LYRE HEARTS ON FIRE (S.5) AMPHIPOLIS UNDER SIEGE (S.5) MOTHERHOOD (S.5) OLD ARES HAD A FARM (S.6) WHEN FATES COLLIDE (S.6) MANY HAPPY RETURNS (S.6) A FRIEND IN NEED PART 1&2 (S.6) Btw, I can't help finding it ironic that there are four eps from the much-maligned Season 5, which puts it second only to S6 :) (But I hasten to admit, before I restart the Season Wars, that this is probably pure fluke and of no significance whatever). cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 13:30:51 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] The Debt - gotta ask On Sat, 09 Apr 2005 08:56, Xena Torres wrote: > Hmm. You know, all this shock that "The Debt" was not on the DVD list, I > gotta ask: > > Who here would rank "The Debt" as their FAV ep? > > I LOVE "The Debt" and do think they are the best overall ep. HOWEVER, it's > NOT my TOP ep. (my top three are "Eve," "Fallen Angel" and "The Bitter > Suite.") We could only vote for ONE ep, so I wonder if that made a > difference. Also, were people maybe voting for their second or third choice > maybe in attempts to get them on the set, figuring the obvious eps were > covered? > > Wondering... > BATTLE ON XENA! Okay, I must admit - Sin Trade is my favourite. Debts would be in my top five, though. But if people could only vote for *ONE* ep, that makes things really really flukey. What do I mean by that? Well, if people voted "honestly" for their most favourite ep (and by that I mean, no 'strategic' voting for their second or third choice), I would expect a huge number of votes for certain 'popular favourites' - Ides, say, or Bitter Suite - and then a rather small, erratic and idiosyncratic scattering of votes for the also-rans from people who happened to like, for example, Lyre Lyre _better than any other ep_. (Hard to imagine, isn't it?) So I'd expect the numbers of votes for many of those 'also-ran' eps to be very thin indeed, in the twos or threes, and the resulting list correspondingly erratic. I'd like to see the voting pattern - that is, total votes cast for each ep (including the ones that didn't make it). Add to that the effect of 'pressure groups' (such as the Ares-Xena fans that one poster referred to), the fact that it's a self-selected poll, with small numbers, and I think weird results are not only explicable but predictable. ;) Also, was there any precaution against 'stacking the deck' by voting multiple times? If I was running such a poll I think I would at least try to reduce the freakiness by, say, getting people to nominate their *ten* most favourite eps, either in no particular order or by ranking them one to ten, favourite gets 10 points, then 9, 8 and so on. I think that would make the results more reliable. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 13:09:15 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Best of Xena DVD On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 21:12, a.reddecliffe wrote: > I've just checked on the choices. "Interesting" is probably the most > diplomatic word for it. In some ways it is a representative selection of > the episodes, rather than the best of the episodes. Everything from > lightweight comedies to drama. Thing is they have chosen the controversial > dramas - FIN and Motherhood, the ones that polarised the fans, you love > those episodes or you hate them. I think that's probably because they only took votes *for* episodes (not, I think, against). It wasn't a comparative poll in the same way that the Rate-a-Xena site was, where you could give any ep a vote from 1 to 10. So an ep that a lot of people loved and a lot of people hated - as, for example, Friend in Need - scored well because the 'haters' didn't have the chance to drag it back down. > Sorry, shows like Many Happy Returns or Ares farm just do not rate in the > same class as shows like The Debt. Very peculiar choices. I certainly agree there. In fact, just considered as comedies, OAHAF was kind of slapstick and MHR was pretty weak, compared with, say, Clones or Miss Amphipolis or Royal Couple of Thieves or You Are There. IMO of course. I guess I just like satire or something with an edge to it. But I'm very surprised the Debts didn't rate. Most odd. And, come to that, how about 'Destiny'? cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 22:25:07 EDT From: Sekhmet209@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] The Debt - gotta ask In a message dated 4/8/05 5:17:23 PM, meth@smoe.org writes: >Hi, > >>Hmm. You know, all this shock that "The Debt" was not on the DVD list, I >>gotta ask: >> >>Who here would rank "The Debt" as their FAV ep? > >*raises hand* Okay if I do a "me too" post, just this once? ;-) - --Sekhmet ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 22:49:36 EDT From: Junejanu@aol.com Subject: [chakram-refugees] OT: Sword and Staff Has the e-mail address for S & S changed? I sent a message to the address posted at the side and it bounced. Thanks for your help. June ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2005 21:48:31 -0400 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Best of Xena DVD I too was surprised that The Debt wasn't included but neither was Destiny and The Quest and either was Sin Trade, it looks like two parters except for AFIN were out of the running. Of course I am disappointed that The Price didn't make despite my best efforts to stuff the ballot box. Now I am curious about the season 1 episodes. I have heard tell that commentaries were made for at least one episode, Doctor In the House, I wonder if that will be included on this set. Also there seems to be extras included. The fan contributions may be very good - I know that Woods and Abbott's Giant Xena Doll video that was presented at the convention this year was very funny so perhaps Abbott's reenactment might be worth a few bucks - who knows. I don't if it is worth enough to buy the complete set or not. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 23:41:52 EDT From: KLOSSNER9@aol.com Subject: [chakram-refugees] LoDuca a plunderer? VideoHound's Soundtrack's, a large 1998 volume of erudite, opinionated commentary edited by Didier Deutsch, has two pieces on Joseph LoDuca's albums, both written by Jeff Bond. Hercules, the Legendary Journeys. -- 2 bones (out of 5) LoDuca's scores for the pilot movies that started off the popular syndicated Hercules series are assembled here in an expansive 64-minute album that's an enjoyable listen if you can keep your mind off the numerous scores by other composers that LoDuca plunders. Among the victims are Conan the Barbarian, Demolition Man, Clash of the Titans, Willow and just about every score that Bernard Herrmann ever did for Ray Harryhausen. LoDuca's optimistic theme music comes off as a cross between John Williams' Superman theme and something out of The Ten Commandments exodus scene. The album's most original moments come from LoDuca's ethnic threatment of the "Hercules and the Amazon Women" storyline, which he later developed for Xena: Warrior Princess. It's a throbbing blend of strident chanting and involving, percussive rhythms. Xena: Warrior Princess -- 3 bones A Hercules spinoff that's eclipsed its predecessor in popularity, Xena inspired composer Joe LoDuca to improve on his derivative Hercules music and create a far more passionate and original theme for the vigilante, imdomitable Amazon warrior Xena that mixes a pounding brass line with the chanting of a female chorus. The precussive, ethnic Amazon music intersperses itself throughout this lengthy album, balanced with some more traditional but no less energetic orchestral action cues and some surprisingly effective and rich moments of sentimentality. There are ripely melodramatic horror cues and a few pop-oriented treatments of dances and market sequences that fall comfortably into this epic canvas, making this one of the most enjoyable TV score albums around. Both reviews are of each series' first album. Boeotian ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V5 #91 *************************************