From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V5 #82 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Thursday, March 31 2005 Volume 05 : Number 082 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Alien Apocalypse [meredith ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: [Flawless] Lucy B-Day Mention [cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Alien Apocalypse Hi, Ife responded: >Lucy had a crack at AA? In the role ROC played? According to IMDB she did: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0404756/trivia =============================================== Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth =============================================== hear at the HOMe House Concert Series http://hom.smoe.org =============================================== ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 19:05:35 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: [Flawless] Lucy B-Day Mention On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 08:32, KTL wrote: > You know, one thing I wish Lucy would receive as a birthday present? That > Katherine Fugate would delete that hate-filled message on her site from a > Katherine Fugate fan who is "disgusted" with Lucy's commentary on "When > Fates Collide". Katherine's fan accuses Lucy of lying about not > remembering the episode at all. She states that Lucy also lies during > interviews and and says whatever is expedient depending upon who's > interviewing her. OK, I went and read it. Just the usual half-baked raving from some overemotional halfwit. (Oh, was that unkind? Probably. As unkind as attacking Lucy's integrity for having the wrong opinion? Probably.... ) It's unfortunate that Lucy (or Rob, or anyone else) have to put up with that sort of thing. But really, that was trivial compared with some of the vitriol that's appeared in the past (not on KF's site, so far as I know). Anyway, KT, it seems Lucy was as unhappy about that unfounded 'I love you Gabrielle' as you and I were. And we know LL was always very keen on keeping Xena 'in character', even though she didn't try to keep track of the plot. So I find that intriguing and mildly gratifying. Not surprising LL upset some of the subtext-fundies, or that they cluster round KF who they seem to think is some kind of saint of the subtext. Makes you wonder, though, if Karen thing who wrote the letter had ever bothered to watch any of the other commentaries - it's not exactly news that LL couldn't recall parts of some episodes, or that she occasionally thought some of the things Xena had to do were 'wrong' for the character. To give Katherine F due credit, besides her predisposition to always avoid saying anything nasty about anybody, she made the point that scenes are shot more or less in random order, and that events as seen by Lucy (or ROC) are in a quite different order from the story as 'seen' by Xena or Gabs. At the risk of misinterpreting Katherine, she may even be getting a little frustrated at the pedestal she's being put on - " here we go. i am going to try and state my thoughts clearly, because frankly, it's getting difficult to keep this discussion going in face of all the comments i continue to receive, arguing with me about what i mean or what i was told. " In fact, her long reply is darn well written and worth reading for itself. I still don't care for her scriptwriting. But I do like her attitude. cr (I hope 'attitude' won't suffer from one of those English-American differences of meaning - by 'attitude' I simply mean her natural way of approaching an issue, I do _not_ mean the arrogant behaviour which I think 'attitude' may mean in US par;ance). ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 11:19:43 -0500 From: meredith Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: [Flawless] Lucy B-Day Mention Hi, cr ps-ed: >(I hope 'attitude' won't suffer from one of those English-American >differences of meaning - by 'attitude' I simply mean her natural way of >approaching an issue, I do _not_ mean the arrogant behaviour which I think >'attitude' may mean in US par;ance). It has both meanings here, depending on the context. I, for one, knew what you meant. :) =============================================== Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth =============================================== hear at the HOMe House Concert Series http://hom.smoe.org =============================================== ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 11:57:50 -0800 From: "Xena Torres" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: [Flawless] Lucy B-Day Mention >Anyway, KT, it seems Lucy was as unhappy about that unfounded 'I love you >Gabrielle' as you and I were. *raises hand* Me too. PRAISE Lucy for her HONESTY. Don't hate those who have the guts to speak the truth, salute them. The line DIDN'T work there and WAS out of character for Xena, and there is NO ONE who knows Xena as Lucy does, so what she says is Xena character LAW (and Rob too, of course, as the creator). >Not surprising LL upset some of the subtext-fundies, or that they cluster >round KF who they seem to think is some kind of saint of the subtext. Which makes NO sense at ALL as Lucy Lawless herself said Xena is gay saying Rob outed Xena in the finale and there is no doubt. So, explain how her being concerned about what was out of character for her character means she's anti subtext? I hate people who attack the ACTOR (the REAL person) for their comments. Hello - welcome to FREE speech ladies and gentlemen. Lucy Lawless didn't say anything nasty even, she just made her opinion known. Well, damn her then. *rolls eyes* I hate small minded people. BATTLE ON XENA! Xena Torres: Warrior Writer http://www.geocities.com/bitchofrome "And most importantly, I've learned that the heart can betray, but the sword never lies." - Eve "Heart of Darkness" ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:57:06 -0900 (AKST) From: KTL Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: [Flawless] =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lucy=20B-Day=20Mention=A0?= Snip, snip, snip > "As I said, removing this acidic diatribe against Lucy and Rob would make a > sweet little birthday present for Lucy and/or anniversary present for > both Lucy and Rob." > > KT > > > IMHO...I often wonder about K.F. motives. > If she is helping or hindering Lucy & Rob ? > RoseC. > Having seen Katherine at cons, I never, ever wonder at her motives. She is an absolutely staunch supporter of Rob. She praises him endlessly in terms of the respect his company granted to the writers of the show. She's said that she had never experienced being treated with so much importance on any other film job she's had. She's talked about how stunned she was to be invited to be on set when they were filming Fates since most directors not only don't invite writers to the set, they also tend to refuse any nosy writer's request to be there. She also praises Rob's creativity and talent and gives him great credit as the boss for being a big part of making XWP such a great show to work on. She also stands up to fans who hate FIN and think Rob didn't have the right to end his series the way he did. She always says to them, "You want creative control--go make your own series." And I deeply admire that. Of course, it makes absolute sense she'd say that, being a writer herself. Some of her fans have tried to lead her into dissing Rob for various reasons and she just doesn't want any part of that. She jokes about him, about how yeah, he's very gifted, but he's also insane. But you can tell without question that she has a great deal of affection and respect for him. And just never disses the guy in public. She thinks the show was great and feels honored to have been a part of it and also honored to be the one picked to write the screenplay if a movie happens. And this was actually what my point was in writing about that post being on her site. It doesn't surprise me that many Fates fans hate Rob. (Since Fates has been set up as the Anti-FIN, it attracts some of the most vicious and virulently negative fans. Who love to gather around it and trumpet out, "Fates should have been the finale! Rob is SUCH a jerk!") But it did surprise me that Katherine not only left such a vicious, personal attack on Rob and Lucy up on her site, but that she actually highlighted it by spending time replying to it. As I said, per the rules she's set up about ugly, negative posts she should have just quietly deleted it, in my opinion. You know, I think Lucy intimidates her, I don't think she "gets" Lucy. Lucy is probably a bit too blunt, brash, too loudly engaged with life and a too stiff-upper-lip, don't whinge, just get on with it type of person for Katherine to fully relate to. Grin. Now I was pretty certain that I had heard Katherine say at the last con that she had been asked to remove some references to the Xena movie negotiations from her website. But I can't find that info in my notebook. (KT glances warily at Bonnie, praying not to start her off so soon on "Where, oh where are those con reports?") I have also always wondered why it was Katherine who broke the news about the movie being in process at that con a few years ago. I remember thinking, "Surely Rob or at least Lucy and Renee should be the ones who get to announce such exciting news as that." I think maybe she's just a little naive about Hollywood. That she doesn't seem to realize that when you're negotiating, you don't just talk about the deals in public. That there are public relation people who do that and/or that at least you carefully consider how you're gonna say what you say, that you don't just blurt out details in a public venue. Anyway, I think Katherine fully supports Rob, PacRen, the series, the movie project, all the people who brought us XWP, and gives them full props every chance she gets. Some of her fans however. . . You know, I tried to send Katherine a version of my post but I apparently didn't manage to get it through. (Or, she deleted it on sight, grin) So I just went over there again to see if my post had appeared. And found a new letter from one of Katherine's fans demanding that Rob apologize to Renee for hooking her up with that stinker show she just did. And that the writer had believed that Rob was her friend. "With a friend like that, who needs emenies" (sic). That looks like one of my own typo-laden mishaps. Except that as I read it, I thought, "Ooooooo, that SHOULD say, 'With friends like that, who needs anemones'". No it doesn't make any sense. But it sounds cool. KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 15:58:50 -0600 From: "S. Wilson" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: [Flawless] Lucy B-Day Mention At 11:57 AM 3/30/2005 -0800, Xena Torres wrote: >>Anyway, KT, it seems Lucy was as unhappy about that unfounded 'I love you >>Gabrielle' as you and I were. > >*raises hand* Me too. PRAISE Lucy for her HONESTY. Don't hate those who >have the guts to speak the truth, salute them. The line DIDN'T work there >and WAS out of character for Xena, and there is NO ONE who knows Xena as >Lucy does, so what she says is Xena character LAW (and Rob too, of course, >as the creator). Hail. I enjoyed WFC a lot, in a sort of dreamy, squishy, sort of Romeo/Juliet way (hard to explain) but I've always thought of it as "outside" of Xena's characterization. Nice to know Lucy had some feelings about the line - which I feel was strange there, too. WFC on its own is nice. In XWP as part of the unchangeable canon, it's a little hard to swallow. The fact that it's an alternate reality makes it easier for me to just watch it and enjoy it as entertainment, but although I do like it, I've never embraced it quite in the way that I do other heavy, epic eps. It's outside. It's a beautiful piece of storytelling, though. If ya like mush. ;) >>Not surprising LL upset some of the subtext-fundies, or that they cluster >>round KF who they seem to think is some kind of saint of the subtext. >I hate people who attack the ACTOR (the REAL person) for their comments. >Hello - welcome to FREE speech ladies and gentlemen. Lucy Lawless didn't >say anything nasty even, she just made her opinion known. Well, damn her >then. *rolls eyes* While hate's a bit of a strong word for me, I'm one of the old fans who readily admits she gets pretty easily skeeved out by some of the hardcore ones who fight ugly, saying cruel things on some board or in some chatroom - - things they would never stand up and say to these people in person. There's hardcore, which I guess is us *g* then there's just plain scary. Fans do love their shows. Even those that trash the creator, the star, the character, the story, and everything else have some kind of bizarre, skewed love for their shows. And really - they do consider them "their" shows. But I think when it comes time to reconcile "their" show with the show that actually exists, we get little earthquakes. We get rifts. We get tantrums, flame wars, rants, and on the extreme tip of that, bodily threats against real people. Amazing. Just leaves me speechless anymore, now that I've seen it in 3 or 4 big fandoms. I think some people just forget that expressing opinions is a fine thing, but expressing scary opinions is just scary. :) S. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 15:26:38 -0800 From: "Xena Torres" Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] Re: [Flawless] Lucy B-Day Mention  Oh, of course, let's not confuse a fan of Katherine with the lady herself. Gosh, no! And, one should never hate someone's work and thus hate the person. They are two COMPLETELY different things. I, for one, have NEVER said I don't like Katherine - only that I don't like "When Fates Collide." BATTLE ON XENA! Xena Torres: Warrior Writer http://www.geocities.com/bitchofrome "And most importantly, I've learned that the heart can betray, but the sword never lies." - Eve "Heart of Darkness" >From: KTL >To: rchan81300@aol.com >CC: Flawless , chakram-refugees@smoe.org >Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: [Flawless] Lucy B-Day Mention >Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:57:06 -0900 (AKST) > >Snip, snip, snip > > > "As I said, removing this acidic diatribe against Lucy and Rob would >make a > > sweet little birthday present for Lucy and/or anniversary present >for > > both Lucy and Rob." > > > > KT > > > > > > IMHO...I often wonder about K.F. motives. > > If she is helping or hindering Lucy & Rob ? > > RoseC. > > > > >Having seen Katherine at cons, I never, ever wonder at her motives. She is >an absolutely staunch supporter of Rob. She praises him endlessly in terms >of the respect his company granted to the writers of the show. She's said >that she had never experienced being treated with so much importance on >any other film job she's had. She's talked about how stunned she was to be >invited to be on set when they were filming Fates since most directors not >only don't invite writers to the set, they also tend to refuse any nosy >writer's request to be there. > >She also praises Rob's creativity and talent and gives him great credit as >the boss for being a big part of making XWP such a great show to work on. > >She also stands up to fans who hate FIN and think Rob didn't have the >right to end his series the way he did. She always says to them, "You want >creative control--go make your own series." And I deeply admire that. Of >course, it makes absolute sense she'd say that, being a writer herself. >Some of her fans have tried to lead her into dissing Rob for various >reasons and she just doesn't want any part of that. She jokes about him, >about how yeah, he's very gifted, but he's also insane. But you can tell >without question that she has a great deal of affection and respect for >him. And just never disses the guy in public. > >She thinks the show was great and feels honored to have been a part of it >and also honored to be the one picked to write the screenplay if a movie >happens. > >And this was actually what my point was in writing about that post being >on her site. It doesn't surprise me that many Fates fans hate Rob. (Since >Fates has been set up as the Anti-FIN, it attracts some of the most >vicious and virulently negative fans. Who love to gather around it and >trumpet out, "Fates should have been the finale! Rob is SUCH a jerk!") But >it did surprise me that Katherine not only left such a vicious, personal >attack on Rob and Lucy up on her site, but that she actually highlighted >it by spending time replying to it. As I said, per the rules she's set up >about ugly, negative posts she should have just quietly deleted it, in my >opinion. > >You know, I think Lucy intimidates her, I don't think she "gets" Lucy. >Lucy is probably a bit too blunt, brash, too loudly engaged with life and >a too stiff-upper-lip, don't whinge, just get on with it type of person >for Katherine to fully relate to. Grin. > >Now I was pretty certain that I had heard Katherine say at the last con >that she had been asked to remove some references to the Xena movie >negotiations from her website. But I can't find that info in my notebook. >(KT glances warily at Bonnie, praying not to start her off so soon on >"Where, oh where are those con reports?") > >I have also always wondered why it was Katherine who broke the news about >the movie being in process at that con a few years ago. I remember >thinking, "Surely Rob or at least Lucy and Renee should be the ones who >get to announce such exciting news as that." > >I think maybe she's just a little naive about Hollywood. That she doesn't >seem to realize that when you're negotiating, you don't just talk about >the deals in public. That there are public relation people who do that >and/or that at least you carefully consider how you're gonna say what you >say, that you don't just blurt out details in a public venue. > >Anyway, I think Katherine fully supports Rob, PacRen, the series, the >movie project, all the people who brought us XWP, and gives them full >props every chance she gets. > >Some of her fans however. . . > >You know, I tried to send Katherine a version of my post but I apparently >didn't manage to get it through. (Or, she deleted it on sight, grin) > >So I just went over there again to see if my post had appeared. And found >a new letter from one of Katherine's fans demanding that Rob apologize to >Renee for hooking her up with that stinker show she just did. And that the >writer had believed that Rob was her friend. "With a friend like that, who >needs emenies" (sic). That looks like one of my own typo-laden mishaps. >Except that as I read it, I thought, "Ooooooo, that SHOULD say, 'With >friends like that, who needs anemones'". No it doesn't make any sense. But >it sounds cool. > >KT >========================================================= >This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. >To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with >"unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. >Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. >========================================================= ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 15:40:29 -0800 From: "Xena Torres" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: [Flawless] Lucy B-Day Mention >The fact that it's an alternate reality makes it easier for me to just >watch it and enjoy it as entertainment, I'd take "Armadeddon Now II". That is my FAVOURITE Alt Xena/universe episode, like...EVER. Not just for Xena, but for any series. It was just SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO cool seeing Xena pretty much ruling the world! HA! How sweet was that!? Not to mention that AMAZING scene with Callisto going back to Cirra and actually being the one to kill her family (though, *tsk* to see the never mentioned father, and yet, do not see the ever mentioned SISTER). That scene with Callisto craddling herself. Go, Hudson, GO! I also enjoy "Stranger in a Strange World" for our lovely totally OUT there characters. Gabrielle as the Executioner was brilliant. Don't anyone tell me you saw THAT coming when the mask was removed (well...okay, maybe you did if you read the opening credits like I did and started wondering where the heck Renee was, but if you HADN'T seen that, I don't think anyone would have guessed). Kevin and Alex were just a riot. I also have a place in my heart for "Remember Nothing" - seeing what Gabrielle would be without Xena. Though, I must say, the best scene was the mirror image to "Sins of the Past" with Xena at Cyrene's grave instead of Lyceus'. For me, "When Fates Collide" did not meet this standard. There WERE some GREAT moments - Xena's ride in in the teaser ("My empress" - WHOA!) and ALTI (Alti is ALWAYS good!). BATTLE ON XENA! Xena Torres: Warrior Writer http://www.geocities.com/bitchofrome "And most importantly, I've learned that the heart can betray, but the sword never lies." - Eve "Heart of Darkness" ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V5 #82 *************************************