From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V5 #42 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Tuesday, February 15 2005 Volume 05 : Number 042 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: S1 [was: Xena, Herc in Kids' Movies book] [Ife] Re: [chakram-refugees] Fallen Angel [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Fallen Angel [IfeRae@aol.com] [chakram-refugees] HAPPY BIRTHDAY RENEE! ["Xena Torres" ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Fallen Angel [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Fallen Angel [cr ] [chakram-refugees] ROC in Follow the River, TV alert [KLOSSNER9@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] HAPPY BIRTHDAY RENEE! ["S. Wilson" I guess I still feel the freshness, the anticipation of what was to come. > >Maybe it's mostly nostalgia. I wouldn't say I prefer S1 over others, but > >I can't imagine having to eliminate it. Goodness! I just realized that > >if A DAY IN THE LIFE was in S1, and I could only have one season, I might > >actually pick S1! Must be nostaltia. > > --You go, girl!! ;=) Welcome to the "club" Thel claims doesn't exist! ;P >> LOL! Don't initiate me yet. Like I told CR, a lot depends on what mood I'm in. And since no one has yet banished me to an island where I can take only one season with me, I have the luxury of imagining which I'd take -- and then changing my mind. Heck, I can't imagine not having DEBT or SIN TRADE either. < g> > -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 01:50:00 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Fallen Angel In a message dated 2/13/2005 11:51:24 PM Pacific Standard Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > I still think Callisto was able to make that decision on her own, > with no need of God. In fact, I think it makes the story even better *if* > it > was entirely Callisto's doing, using the power that Xena passed on to her, > because it then means that Xena's decision to save Callisto was, whether > Xena > intended it or not, the entire cause of X and G coming back to life. > Nothing wrong with that. Still, I think Xenatorres makes an excellent point about the battle raging between hell and heaven. Michael had already confirmed that Devil Xena might beat him. His main hope was Gabs, whom Devil Xena nullified. Cally's sympathies notwithstanding, it was in everybody's interests "up there" to get Devil Xena out. Whose ever idea it was, Cally's act was the perfect solution. Again, I personally prefer to focus on the dynamics between Cally and Xena, but the battle gives an added dimension. It's very much in keeping with how TPTB showed Xena as instrumental in tipping the balance between good and evil among a variety of gods/spiritual beings. What concerned her on a personal level (e.g., Odin, Indrajit) had consequences far beyond. In FA, Cally didn't just save Xena, she took away Hell's most powerful warrior, saved Heaven and gave earth back one of its greatest heroes. Ironically, Angel Xena had jeopardized that "greater good" by sacrificing herself for Cally. Similarly, regardless of the reason or the source of power, Cally's "grace" went far beyond solely benefitting X&G. Nice symmetry. - -- Ife PS: I see you said in another post: << There's a sort of symmetry about it. Further, it means that both Xena and Callisto played a very large part in each others' lives... it just seems more 'fitting', to me, that Callisto, who helped engineer X & G's deaths, then brought them back to life again. >> LOL! Yeah, "symmetry." ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 01:50:01 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Fallen Angel In a message dated 2/13/2005 11:51:22 PM Pacific Standard Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > Incidentally, in the DVD commentary, Eric Greundemann and R J > half-frivolously discuss the question of whether, when Xena saved Callisto, > she knew Callisto would revive her and Gabs - to which Eric said "of course > she did!" Now admittedly they were being light-hearted about Xena's > foreknowledge - but it was an unquestioned assumption that saving Callisto > was entirely Xena's decision. > Yes, I do think those comments were a light-hearted reference to Xena's ability to know all and have everything work out all right. To me, there was nothing in FA (particularly given Lucy's peformance) to refute that "unquestioned assumption." And I'm also assuming you meant the assumption that Xena did it purely to save Cally from an eternity of bitterness and pain -- i.e., hell -- with no thoughts about what would happen afterwards in terms of herself or future events. Indeed, this is one time she re-entered a world of darkness with, I believe, no idea of what she was letting herself -- or everybody else -- in for. Heh, she didn't seem to have the same opinion about her all-knowing wisdom and power in the universe as higher powers did. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 00:55:06 -0800 From: "Xena Torres" Subject: [chakram-refugees] HAPPY BIRTHDAY RENEE! It's Feb 15th. 34 years ago the world was blessed with RENEE O'CONNER! HAPPY BIRTHDAY RENEE! For she's another year older For she's another year older For she's another year older And that's a crying shame Oh She's never get any younger She's never get any younger She's never get any younger And that's a crying shame (I still say that a very insulting b-day song, but gotta quote "Xena" whenever possible) BATTLE ON XENA! Xena Torres: Warrior Writer http://www.geocities.com/bitchofrome "And most importantly, I've learned that the heart can betray, but the sword never lies." - Eve "Heart of Darkness" ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 10:17:08 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: S1 [was: Xena, Herc in Kids' Movies book] On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 21:52, Jackie M. Young wrote: > --Yup. ;=) LL's voice was much lower then, her expression stoic (as > befits a WP), and she wasn't so touchy-feely. ;P Well, I agree about the touchy-feely. > And, we had all the gimmicks, the innovations that were dropped by the > wayside later on: "I have many skills", "No, we do it _my_ way!", "Kill > 'em all!", the fire-breathing, the neck pinch, the wry > philosophical one-liners. > > These were all dropped for the "more complicated" plotlines of the later > seasons that Thel likes so much. Phooey. Excuse me? *What* was dropped? The dialogue got even better later in the series. I love irony and sarcastic one-liners, and IMO there's nothing in Season 1 or even 2 that can compare with, say, The Debt. "I decided to appeal to his sense of family values" "I've learned to clean up after myself" Those two (among many others) had me laughing with delight. And as for trivia like fire-breathing, check out 'Motherhood' and 'Friend in Need'..... As for the neck pinch, it was used in just about every second ep, right up to and including 'Friend in Need'. > >I guess I still feel the freshness, the anticipation of what was to come. > >Maybe it's mostly nostalgia. I wouldn't say I prefer S1 over others, but > >I can't imagine having to eliminate it. Goodness! I just realized that > >if A DAY IN THE LIFE was in S1, and I could only have one season, I might > >actually pick S1! Must be nostaltia. > > --You go, girl!! ;=) Welcome to the "club" Thel claims doesn't exist! ;P The club that likes S1 because it has A Day in the Life in it? That's a very exclusive and imaginary club, I think, in a parallel universe Anyway, if you read that again you'll see lfe said she *doesn't* prefer S1 over others. That looks like a rather lukewarm application to join your 'club' :) > S1 had dark: my fave ep is Reckoning. Hardly compares with Destiny or Debt.... > S1 had Autolycus: my fave ep is Royal Couple. Well, yeah, that's one of my favourite comedies too. But one favourite does not a season make.... > AND nothing was old or over-done--it was all new and novel and delivered > in a fresh way (I hated how X would say in later seasons when she did the > neck pinch, "...and you know how the rest goes", or something to that > effect--it made it sound tired and worn out). Well, of course, that's unavoidable... you can never repeat the 'first time'. > AND S1 set up all the future relationships (i.e., father-daughter, > Gabs-parents, X-Cally) that we would see in later seasons. Again, so what? Gotta start somewhere. If that's an argument, I reckon we should all vote for the 'Warrior Princess' trilogy on Herc, because after all, it did introduce Xena which set up the entire XWP series..... cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 11:15:36 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: S1 [was: Xena, Herc in Kids' Movies book] On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 19:49, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > > --You go, girl!! ;=) Welcome to the "club" Thel claims doesn't exist! ;P > > >> > > LOL! Don't initiate me yet. Like I told CR, a lot depends on what mood > I'm in. And since no one has yet banished me to an island where I can take > only one season with me, I have the luxury of imagining which I'd take -- > and then changing my mind. Heck, I can't imagine not having DEBT or SIN > TRADE either. < g> Besides, remember what happened to Strife. "I wouldn't belong to a club that would have me as a member" - Callisto. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 10:56:40 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Fallen Angel On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 07:57, Xena Torres wrote: > >Absolutely not. God aka Michael may have made Callisto an angel - > > Michael isn't god, cr. He's an archangel. He's just the footman. Oh, I realise that. That 'aka' was intended facetiously. > Eli isn't god. He just ranks a little higher than Michael I think. I'm not sure about that. But Eli's position in the organisation, relative to Michael's, was never explicitly shown anywhere. I have the impression he might have been a rival - though that's not quite the right term either. Put it this way, Michael was high up in the hierarchy, my impression is that Eli was maybe outside the hierarchy. > Though god isn't > really ever mentioned, it's him that's doing a lot of actions in the series > once he's really introduced in season five. The light that washes over > Callisto in the fight scene is NOT her doing. Xena did NOT make Callisto an > angel. Xena put Callisto in heaven. You have to EARN the right be to an > angel (Xena and Gab weren't angels at first). Callisto earned it by her > weeping, her concern, her wish to do something to stop the fighting, and so > god made her a guardian angel. Where in the ep does it say this? Actually, I think there were quite a lot of anomalies or unspecified events in the episode. > >And (IMO!!!) Callisto decided for herself what to do when she saw the > >fight going on. > > Dude, she didn't have no power! She had no wings = not angel. Xena gave her > light to send Callisto to heaven. She wins a free pass in, but the wings > still have to be earned. Even Gabrielle had to earn her wings. So, where did Callisto earn her wings? That really wasn't specified. > >You see, I just don't like God > > LOL! Well...I'm with you there, and I hated the introduction of him into > the series. Pissed me off it did. I like mythology - it was one of the main > reasons I started watching Xena (besides Lucy herself), and I didn't like > the departure away from the Greek gods (as cool as that was). Me too. I just didn't care for the Christian mythology creeping in. I thought Olympus was much more fun - though I do agree, 'Motherhood' was way cool. > Thankfully > they did bring in the Norse gods for a bit in season six, and thus not > completely dropping mythology. Still think they should have brought in the > Egyptian gods for a few eps... > The whole christianity arch irked me. :P I did like how Eve became the > messenger of Eli (Jesus, obviously) after she had been the Bitch of Rome, > cause it was such an interesting 180, but I think I would have liked Eli > more if he wasn't a play on Jesus and was a little more their own creation. > Like, how Najara was a play on Joan of Arc in "Crusader" (she lost that in > "The Convert" - too bad). I will never buy that she took Xena in a fight, Hey, you too? Exactly what I think. (But shhh, we'll wake up lfe... :) > but I liked the interesting angle on Joan of Arc, without making her Joan > of Arc (cause, hey, she sure as hell weren't born yet!) Najara was bad: > Joan wasn't. Very cool switch. > Eli wasn't anywhere near as creative. > > >More to the point, I think the episode shows remarkably little of God's > >influence. Michael is in >charge of defending Heaven against the demons, > >and he seems to be barely in control of the >situation. He has certain > >powers, such as making Xena and Gabs angels, but he certainly can't > >control them thereafter. I don't see God's direct influence anywhere > >in the ep. > > And? The devil didn't have direct influence either. Isn't that the point? > People decide for themselves. Michael didn't lose control over Xena or Gab. > He got Xena focused and made her listen. He warned Xena she might be moved > in hell, because he likely has experienced the same thing. But he warned in > her regard to Gabrielle, and made sure Gab got out so Xena couldn't rescue > her by giving her her light. He had no idea that Xena would give it up for > Callisto. Hell, did any of us? lol That's what I'm getting at. Michael (or God) didn't have control over what Xena would do. > >Incidentally, in the DVD commentary, Eric Greundemann and R J > >half-frivolously discuss the >question of whether, when Xena saved > >Callisto, she knew Callisto would revive her and Gabs - to >which Eric > > said "of course she did!" Now admittedly they were being light-hearted > > about Xena's >foreknowledge - but it was an unquestioned assumption that > > saving Callisto was entirely Xena's >decision. > > Frankly: From interviews I've seen with RJ he gives Xena WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY > TOO MUCH credit. I'm sorry, she's human. She can know human nature and know > those in her life perfectly, but that doesn't mean she can predict the > outcome always. Oh, I agree. And RJ is obviously being a little facetious, same as when he (and Eric from time to time) speak about 'the scrolls' as if they were factual history. > And if Xena saved Callisto to save herself that ruins the > power of the gesture. Put that way, I do agree. However, my sense of the fitness of things is satisfied if Xena really did save Callisto out of compassion, no strings attached, and just through the workings of chance, it resulted in Callisto saving Xena and Gabs. I think that's a really neat idea. > The point was Xena took Callisto's place - took on > her suffering in hell, because she knew she was the cause. She has always > sought redemption, and seems to only know how to find it by sacrificing > herself (see "Sins of the Past," "The Reckoning," "Locked Up and Tied Down" > and "FIN"). This scene loses all power if she did it for her own gain. No, > she had NO IDEA. How the hell could she guess that? I mean, JEEZ! > >Remind me, but wasn't a lot of that stuff in The Way and Ides the sort of > >faith-healing thing that *could* just be non-supernatural? When did Eli > >fix broken legs, btw? > > LOL! Check out "The Ides of March" when Gab and Amarice first team up with > him. Act one. Granted, his legs might not have been broken, but the guy > couldn't walk. He was brought to Eli on a stretcher and walked away after > Eli healed him. What I said. Not being able to walk could be due to many things including (in extreme cases) a psychological belief that one can't walk. I'm not saying Eli didn't demonstrate healing powers - though they could have been faith-healing, they could have been stronger. But nothing we saw him do previously came remotely close to bringing the dead (one of whom has a fractured spine) back to life. > >Talking of such anomalies, what about Krishna? - who managed to transform > >an arm-less Xena into >a four-armed Kali, and then (in some unspecified > >way) back into the regular two-armed Xena again >after she offed Indrajit. > > That was a bit disconcerting. > > LOL. Yeah, but that was the head god taking that action. You don't think > Zeus could do that? Sure he could. But the reviving was Eli and an angel. > ;) Oh, I agree. I did mention Zeus bringing Lyla back in 'Outcast', didn't I? Incidentally, at the end of the fight in Between The Lines, Xena's injuries and Gabs' nail-holes magically disappeared - though whether that was down to Naiyima, or the mendhi, or just the destruction of Alti, I don't know. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 11:27:46 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Fallen Angel On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 19:50, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 2/13/2005 11:51:22 PM Pacific Standard Time, > > cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > > Incidentally, in the DVD commentary, Eric Greundemann and R J > > half-frivolously discuss the question of whether, when Xena saved > > Callisto, she knew Callisto would revive her and Gabs - to which Eric > > said "of course she did!" Now admittedly they were being light-hearted > > about Xena's foreknowledge - but it was an unquestioned assumption that > > saving Callisto was entirely Xena's decision. > > Yes, I do think those comments were a light-hearted reference to Xena's > ability to know all and have everything work out all right. To me, there > was nothing in FA (particularly given Lucy's peformance) to refute that > "unquestioned assumption." And I'm also assuming you meant the assumption > that Xena did it purely to save Cally from an eternity of bitterness and > pain -- i.e., hell -- with no thoughts about what would happen afterwards > in terms of herself or future events. Yes, I agree there. I think Eric and RJ's discussion about whether Xena knew what would happen, was entirely frivolous. If you listen to their commentary, they were just having a good time re-living the ep - they really should have had some popcorn and a six-pack on the table. :) > Indeed, this is one time she > re-entered a world of darkness with, I believe, no idea of what she was > letting herself -- or everybody else -- in for. Heh, she didn't seem to > have the same opinion about her all-knowing wisdom and power in the > universe as higher powers did. > > -- Ife I think the higher powers were more afraid of Xena's tactical abilities and her powers of leadership, actually. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 11:23:51 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Fallen Angel On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 19:50, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > Nothing wrong with that. Still, I think Xenatorres makes an excellent > point about the battle raging between hell and heaven. Michael had already > confirmed that Devil Xena might beat him. His main hope was Gabs, whom > Devil Xena > nullified. Cally's sympathies notwithstanding, it was in everybody's > interests > "up there" to get Devil Xena out. Whose ever idea it was, Cally's act was > the perfect solution. Oh yes, I do agree, Callisto did the right thing for everybody. I just like to think it was on her own intitiative and not prompted by God. (And after all, if God wanted it done, why did he need a new apprentice like Callisto to do it? - why not just do it himself and make sure there were no mistakes? Or, surely he must have had some more experienced and reliable angel hanging around who could do it?) > Again, I personally prefer to focus on the dynamics between Cally and Xena, > but the battle gives an added dimension. It's very much in keeping with > how TPTB showed Xena as instrumental in tipping the balance between good > and evil among a variety of gods/spiritual beings. What concerned her on a > personal level (e.g., Odin, Indrajit) had consequences far beyond. In FA, > Cally didn't > just save Xena, she took away Hell's most powerful warrior, saved Heaven > and gave earth back one of its greatest heroes. Ironically, Angel Xena had > jeopardized that "greater good" by sacrificing herself for Cally. Hmm, interesting point. That earth-shaking events could depend on the personal feelings and momentary emotions of Xena and Callisto. I do rather like that. Of course, later on, Xena's protective feelings for Eve had similar results (though I do suspect the manipulative hand of Michael there....) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 08:14:03 EST From: KLOSSNER9@aol.com Subject: [chakram-refugees] ROC in Follow the River, TV alert Follow the River (1995) with Renee O'Connor, apparently made just a few months beofre the beginning of Xena, will be shown on the Hallmark Channel tonight, at 8:00 Central Time, according to my local paper. Boeotian ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 08:02:47 -0600 From: "S. Wilson" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] HAPPY BIRTHDAY RENEE! 34? Dude. I thought she was older for some reason. hehe Anyway, I'm glad I saw XWP and discovered her talent. I hope she has a good birthday. S. At 12:55 AM 2/15/2005 -0800, you wrote: >It's Feb 15th. 34 years ago the world was blessed with RENEE O'CONNER! >HAPPY BIRTHDAY RENEE! ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 09:48:22 -0800 From: "Xena Torres" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] HAPPY BIRTHDAY RENEE! Nope, 1971 for Renee. Lucy will be turning 37 this years (1968) BATTLE ON XENA! Xena Torres: Warrior Writer http://www.geocities.com/bitchofrome "And most importantly, I've learned that the heart can betray, but the sword never lies." - Eve "Heart of Darkness" >From: "S. Wilson" >To: Xena Torres >CC: chakram-refugees@smoe.org >Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] HAPPY BIRTHDAY RENEE! >Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 08:02:47 -0600 > >34? Dude. I thought she was older for some reason. hehe > >Anyway, I'm glad I saw XWP and discovered her talent. I hope she has a good >birthday. > >S. > >At 12:55 AM 2/15/2005 -0800, you wrote: >>It's Feb 15th. 34 years ago the world was blessed with RENEE O'CONNER! >>HAPPY BIRTHDAY RENEE! ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 09:52:08 -0800 From: "Xena Torres" Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] ROC in Follow the River, TV alert It's also coming to DVD in March. However, Renee's only in the first hour of the movie, so if you're bored, you can stop watching then. ;) The exit of her character was stupid and there was no follow up. You never do find out what happened to her. Frankly, it's a poor movie, but it's great to watch Renee! Personally, of all the roles she's done before Xena, I most recommend "Darkman II: The Return of Durant" (Darkman created by Sam Raimi - you can also find Bruce Campbell and Ted Raimi in the first Darkman - and if you are a Star Trek: Voyager fan, Roxann Dawson stars in the third and final film "Darkman III: Die, Darkman, Die") Renee is the leading lady of "Darkman II" which gives her lots of screen time, and she's in the entire film. "Darkman II" has already been released on DVD. BATTLE ON XENA! Xena Torres: Warrior Writer http://www.geocities.com/bitchofrome "And most importantly, I've learned that the heart can betray, but the sword never lies." - Eve "Heart of Darkness" >From: KLOSSNER9@aol.com >To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org >Subject: [chakram-refugees] ROC in Follow the River, TV alert >Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 08:14:03 EST > >Follow the River (1995) with Renee O'Connor, apparently made >just a few months beofre the beginning of Xena, will be shown >on the Hallmark Channel tonight, at 8:00 Central Time, according >to my local paper. > >Boeotian >========================================================= >This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. >To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with >"unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. >Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. >========================================================= ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 10:10:54 -0800 From: "Xena Torres" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Fallen Angel >>Callisto earned it by her weeping, her concern, her wish to do something >>to stop the fighting, >>and so god made her a guardian angel. >Where in the ep does it say this? That you had to earn being an angel? Um the scenes where Xena and Gab had to earn it. Granted, they were taking tests to be ARCH angels, but I doubt you can just declare yourself a Guardian Angel whenever you want. >So, where did Callisto earn her wings? That really wasn't specified. I think by being good. By talking to Gab in Gab's challenge. For grieving when she saw the two sides fighting. For (likely) praying she could do SOMETHING to help, to stop the fighting. >Hey, you too? Exactly what I think. (But shhh, we'll wake up lfe... >:) Shhhhhing. ;) >And RJ is obviously being a little facetious, same as when he (and Eric >from >time to time) speak about 'the scrolls' as if they were factual history. Well, yeah, that's silly. But RJ makes comments ALL THE TIME that Xena knew this and Xena knew that and it's just impossible that she could. I also have to STRONGLY DISAGREE that when Xena killed Callisto in Sacrifice that she wasn't goaded into doing it. Dude, Callisto SO played her! She wanted to die and she made Xena do it. I'm with Hudson on this matter man. Yet, interesting, the Xena staff is in dispute over who was leading that scene. But that's a whole other matter. I can't remember off the top of my head some of the points RJ has made over time, but watching the DVD interviews I was CONSTANTLY thinking, "And WHERE in the series did you say Xena was an oracle?" There's simply NO WAY she could know everything he gave her credit for. If she did, she'd NEVER be surprised, because she would know everything. She would have known Gab would betray her in "The Debt." She would have known right away who was after her in "Past Imperfect." She would have known where Gab and she would die in "Ides" and be able to prevent it. She's a BRILLIANT military leader, but she's not a se'er. Even Xena has limits. >However, my sense of the fitness of things is satisfied if Xena really did >save Callisto out of compassion, no strings attached, and just through the >workings of chance, it resulted in Callisto saving Xena and Gabs. I think >that's a really neat idea. Exactly. That's how I see it. And how it makes the most sense, and how it keeps the gesture as pure as it was. >But nothing we saw him do previously came remotely close to bringing the >dead (one of whom >has a fractured spine) back to life. True, true. BUT: he did heal the sick girl in "The Way." And he did expell the demon, TWICE, in "Devi." He DID have powers. Oh, and he made Ares back the hell off in "Chakram." If he had no power of his own, NO WAY would Ares have backed down. >Oh, I agree. I did mention Zeus bringing Lyla back in 'Outcast', didn't >I? You did. Course, Lyla was in the Greek afterlife where he has control. I doubt Zeus would have been able to pull a dead person out of heaven or other such afterlives...you know, that was SO NEVER clear on the show. What the hell was with all the different afterlives? Oooh, but do we want to get started on THAT again? lol >Incidentally, at the end of the fight in Between The Lines, Xena's injuries >and Gabs' nail-holes magically disappeared - though whether that was down >to >Naiyima, or the mendhi, or just the destruction of Alti, I don't know. Naiyima. They weren't healed when Alti died. But that annoyed me too. There's no point in injuring your characters if you never make anything of it. I was THRILLED when I first saw "Gabrielle's Hope" that Xena still had the cut on her arm that the Deliverer gave her from the ep before. However, come act one, it was GONE. WTF? Xena's insane healing powers was bull. Why show scenes like the Gauntlet (uncut - HOLY CRAP!) or her beating in "Who's Gurkhan?" when two scenes later she has not even a scratch. Injuring characters is about challenging them. If they don't suffer from the injury, where's the challenge? BATTLE ON XENA! Xena Torres: Warrior Writer http://www.geocities.com/bitchofrome "And most importantly, I've learned that the heart can betray, but the sword never lies." - Eve "Heart of Darkness" ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 10:12:27 -0800 From: "Xena Torres" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Fallen Angel >Yes, I agree there. I think Eric and RJ's discussion about whether Xena >knew what would happen, was entirely frivolous. If you listen to their >commentary, they were just having a good time re-living the ep - they >really >should have had some popcorn and a six-pack on the table. :) Oh, me too, but RJ DOES give Xena a hell of a lot of credit when he's not joking. >I think the higher powers were more afraid of Xena's tactical abilities and >her powers of leadership, actually. Oh yes...watch out for her! BATTLE ON XENA! Xena Torres: Warrior Writer http://www.geocities.com/bitchofrome "And most importantly, I've learned that the heart can betray, but the sword never lies." - Eve "Heart of Darkness" ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 10:15:15 -0800 From: "Xena Torres" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Fallen Angel >Oh yes, I do agree, Callisto did the right thing for everybody. I just >like to think it was on her >own intitiative and not prompted by God. THAT I agree with COMPLETELY! I only meant that god gave her the powers to ACT on those thoughts. BATTLE ON XENA! Xena Torres: Warrior Writer http://www.geocities.com/bitchofrome "And most importantly, I've learned that the heart can betray, but the sword never lies." - Eve "Heart of Darkness" ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 11:30:07 -0800 From: "Creation (Sharon Delaney)" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Telly alert-- Lucy on PBS Found a link to the air dates at: http://www.womenworking2000.com/tv/airtimes.php?id=9 Sharon Official Xena Fan Club >Watch your local PBS for 3Heartbeat to Heartbeat: Women and Heart Disease2-- >Lucy is interviewed! It9s showing here in Austin less than 24 hrs. from >now, but PBS scheduling varies from one station to another, so it could be >any day, any time, elsewhere... if at all. > > >TEXena ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 18:30:18 -0500 From: meredith Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] ROC in Follow the River, TV alert Hi, I am also sending birthday wishes out into the aether for ROC. 1971 was a very good year ... I was born that year too! :) >Frankly, it's a poor movie, but it's great to watch Renee! IMHO the same must be said of _Darkman II_. I suffered through it simply because ROC was in it, but *man*, what a horrid film. No wonder it went straight to video. =============================================== Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth =============================================== hear at the HOMe House Concert Series http://hom.smoe.org =============================================== ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 16:22:05 -0800 From: "Xena Torres" Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] ROC in Follow the River, TV alert >IMHO the same must be said of _Darkman II_. I suffered through it simply >because ROC was in it, but *man*, what a horrid film. No wonder it went >straight to video. ROTFLMAO! I never Darkman II was good, only that Renee has a hell of a bigger role, which makes it better than Follow the River. Only the first Darkman was good, but that was written and directed by Sam. He and Rob left after that. ;) BATTLE ON XENA! Xena Torres: Warrior Writer http://www.geocities.com/bitchofrome "And most importantly, I've learned that the heart can betray, but the sword never lies." - Eve "Heart of Darkness" ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 23:55:17 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Telly alert-- Lucy on PBS In a message dated 2/15/2005 12:05:04 PM Pacific Standard Time, outback@creationent.com writes: > Found a link to the air dates at: > http://www.womenworking2000.com/tv/airtimes.php?id=9 > Grrrr. They've already shown it in Chicago. I don't know why Lucy insists on believing she can do these things and not have someone give us sufficient notice. In this case, she could've gotten the host of middle-aged female fans to learn about our poor lil hearts. Yeah, yeah, we can always buy the video, but who wants to sit through a lot of talk about eating right and ... um ... I mean, it's so much more interesting hearing about eating right if Lucy says it. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V5 #42 *************************************