From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V5 #25 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Saturday, January 29 2005 Volume 05 : Number 025 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena above all the imitators [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Con 05 Lucy and Renee (with beads) [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena above all the imitators [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Favorite Seasons ( was Re: Xena, Herc in Kids' Movies ... [cr Well, I just found the implication that Xena might be more infallible if > she > was a 'robot', absurd. Robots (at least in fiction) are predictable and > therefore can be outmanouvred. >> That's not what I was implying, but I doubt more explanation will help. :-) > >But, no, Xena changes her mind and comes bristling in, full warrior mode, > >ready to take Gabs back. > > Well, 'changes her mind' is a euphemism for 'finding out that Najara is a > fanatical wacko who was quite likely to kill Gabs as soon as Gabs found out > about her murderous little habits and tried to walk out on her', I think. > :) > Um, so she didn't change her mind about leaving Gabs and thinking Najara would be an okay stand-in? - -- Ife - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 00:29:27 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Con 05 Lucy and Renee (with beads) In a message dated 1/26/2005 8:18:13 PM Pacific Standard Time, fsktl@aurora.uaf.edu writes: > After > Lucy helped Renee down, she said, "I just like to touch Renee." >> Bwahahahahaha! > < Renee admitted somewhat reluctantly that > Sharon had taken her to buy her wig at "Hustler's Hollywood." "Where > Sharon has an account", Lucy added. > Lordy, that Lucy could do a stand-up comedy routine with no problem. Or perhaps Sharon has a dark side lurking beneath that Mama Cleaver exterior? > I believe it was Renee who suggested that they take turns changing. Lucy > demurred, "It's no fun alone." Lucy moved a tad and stood squarely behind > a mike on a typical skinny mike pole stand. And made a joke about how she > could change right there because, "No one can see me now." (indicating > that the mike pole would successfully hid her from our prying eyes.) >> Oh, I can't wait for the DVD of this. Ahem. > Sharon read a question from a fan about an episode. And Lucy said in a > very dry tone, "Now Sharon, you know I don't remember anything." >> Bwahahahaha! So true! > > Sharon told Renee that the artwork she'd provided for Creation to make a > t-shirt from for the 10th anniversary wasn't ready. Renee was very > concerned. Apparently it was a picture of Lucy (as Xena?). And Renee > talked about how it started out so beautifully but that she began to layer > it and that it turned out to be a very dark piece.>> Heh, I always suspected ROC (like possibly Sharon) was the one with the dark side. > Lucy still didn't want to change. Just like last year, she wanted to stay > in character. She most certainly didn't want to take off her wig. Renee > encouraged her to remove it as she did last year, but Lucy held out. >> A performer to her core, that one. > "Kevin (Sorbo's) really good. Tough as nails." She made her decision. She > picked Sorbo. I believe that Renee said in a soft, kind of disbelieving > undertone, ""Sorbo beat me out in a kissing contest?" > > We began to say, "Awwwww" and "C'mon". So Lucy walked over to the edge of > the stage and said, "Okay. I'll give you Renee." ?? Oh, this is too rich! Some people in the audience began to bug her to change. She dismissed> > that, saying, "It's my party." She said to ask the fans who where at the > con last year if she should take off her wig or not. The fans were > divided, or at least I heard people yelling for both possibilities. >> Huh, I guess the cons are one of the few places she can do whatever she wants - -- which apparently is to not be herself on stage for as long as possible. < g> > Then Lucy added, "You think you want her, but you don't." (Referring to > Lucy as opposed to Lucy in Character.) >> Will she never learn? > Lucy said she didn't really have any cute stories either but that she and > Julius were in an "I love you more" contest one day and he said, "I love > you through space, past all the stars and out through the other side of > space were there are no stars or air." >> Wow, ol' JuJu got talent. > Someone asked Lucy how the Gentlemen Prefer Blonds show was going. She > said, "I only know it's in May. I'm glad you reminded me." >> LOL! > They talked about the irregularity of acting jobs. She got a new job > offer. "They want you for something. I'm so GLAD they do. I say, I'll take > it. I'll do anything! Like. . . 'Locust'!" And she struck a pose of a > person bending over backwards, arms up in the air, palms out to push away > the invader, showing a person in fear of assault. "It seemed like a pretty > good idea when I was in a slum in Bangladesh. I haven't really signed > yet." Renee asked, "You play a scientist, right?" And she answered, "A > scientist in the Ministry of Agriculture. Whatever you call that here." > > "I'll just be running from bugs. I won't tell you how it ends." She > continued in a fake uplifting voice, "But it's VERY exciting." >> Was she serious about that? The, um, movie, I mean. > Lucy said then, "I'm going to change. My mind." And walked backstage.>> LOL! CR? You see that? Lucy changed her mind! Oh, right, she's not Xena. > She talked about the drawing she had done of Lucy for the 10th anniversary > T-Shirt. "It started out as a really clean, beautiful picture of Lucy." > Then she decided to layer her. And as she worked, the picture showed Lucy > changing. And ultimately it became very dark. Renee commented, "What does > THAT say about her?" >> About Lucy? Riiiiight. > Lucy has always mixed her short, snappy joking replies, with thoughtful > serious answers. Some people see this as detached or unengaged but I enjoy > it. >> Yep, me too. > They were asked if they'd ever had any fights during the show. There was a > short silence as they looked at each other. Then Renee said something > about working together for six years, and over six years, "It becomes like > a marriage." Lucy added, "The sex was sporadic." >> Oh, lordy, lordy, lordy. > I've noticed for a number of years now that Lucy often stands very quietly > when Renee is talking about herself or her projects as opposed to when > they're just chatting back and forth or answering questions. When Renee > discusses things, Lucy takes herself over to a far side of the stage and > stops moving. She often puts her head down, hiding her face from the > audience and looking at the floor as she listens. I find this extremely > courteous and very generous. She just seems to want to be sure that she's > not distracting the audience. Or even Renee. >> She even does a version of that on their DVD commentaries and coffee-talk sessions. I think Lucy genuinely respects ROC's insights and likes to listen to them, in addition to making sure ROC doesn't get overshadowed. > Lucy asked the woman, "Are you Debby? We've read your letters with fixity > and concern". Actually, that woman wasn't Debby, but Debby, another female > soldier, was also in the audience. >> Oh, that must've been some moment for the soldiers. I can't imagine what it must be like to have been somewhere like Iraq, then at a con. Wonder which was more "unreal" to them. > > You know, I hadn't really thought about that. How XWP as a story of female > warriors would hit real life female warriors. How affirming it must be to > watch a show where female warriors are celebrated, honored and yeah, > successful. An Amazon society that's both respected and feared is a normal > part of that world.>> You know, I'm aware of other Xena fans who are soldiers. A couple had Xena posters in their tents in Iraq, but they never talked about seeing a connection with themselves in terms of their military service. Wonder if there was any difference between those who wanted to be soldiers and those who saw the military as a route to something else? Rhetorical question, of course. :-) > the thought of Xena: Warrior Princess being watched in any country where > women are not respected and treated as children to be taken care of. How > seditious to be watching Xena in places like that. >> Heh, I suspect that's one of the reasons some women in the good ol' US of A liked -- or didn't like -- XWP. > I think someone asked what their greatest fears or something like that > was. > > They answered, "Anywhere you have to put yourself up for rejection". And, > "Being open to such a large group". >> Boy, talk about gluttons for punishment. > Many people had applauded and hooted in agreement when Renee reamed > reality TV. Lucy looked out at us and said, "Oh yeah, right. C'mon now, > don't try to tell me that nobody here has never watched reality TV." Some > people loudly denied it. Lucy asked for a show of hands of who had never > watched it. I was near the front, so I don't know what the result was. >> And you? Did you raise your wee hand? > > Renee mentioned The OC and Desperate Housewives as some of the few bright > spots on TV. Lucy said, "That's nice, isn't it?" And then, "I am Teri > Hatcher." >> Oooo, she heard us! Now, if only she'll somehow wangle herself a spot on DH. > Renee thought a bit and then said yeah, on Helicon and Back (and then she > added, "I'm going to suffer the wrath of Liz"). "The path I wanted > Gabrielle to go, I just remember I wanted to do it differently, having > them do it differently. I saw Gabrielle as very different than where the > writer thought we were." NOTE: remember that I'm reconstructing notes > scribbled in the dark. Though I THINK I have the intent, the words are not > exactly what they said. And probably, when the DVD of the con comes out, > we'll find out that Renee said nothing remotely like this. . . ) >> You realize, of course, that we'll think the DVD got it wrong? > Then she added, "Save the children. (Pause) And the whales. (Pause) And > gay people." >> Leave it to Lucy to make those connections. Bless her. > KT > You know, I find that I actually remember more after a few days rest from > the con. However, I see people grousing on so many lists that nobody's > writing much of a con report. So here's one for now. I bet you anything > that I'll be remembering LOTS more over the next few days. > And we will anxiously (and impatiently) await seeing them six months from now. Bless you too, KT. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 09:07:23 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena above all the imitators On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 18:29, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > > >But, no, Xena changes her mind and comes bristling in, full warrior > > > mode, ready to take Gabs back. > > > > Well, 'changes her mind' is a euphemism for 'finding out that Najara is a > > fanatical wacko who was quite likely to kill Gabs as soon as Gabs found > > out about her murderous little habits and tried to walk out on her', I > > think. > > > > :) > > Um, so she didn't change her mind about leaving Gabs and thinking Najara > would be an okay stand-in? > > -- Ife Your post made it sound like a whim, without much justification. Whereas Xena changed her mind for compelling reasons based on new information. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 09:06:09 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Favorite Seasons ( was Re: Xena, Herc in Kids' Movies ... On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 18:28, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 1/24/2005 10:34:41 PM Pacific Standard Time, > > cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > > While I found later seasons more dramatically interesting and the > > > > >actors' performances more demanding, that doesn't make the > > > accomplishments of S1 "less than." I still enjoy it for itself, just > > > as I enjoy later seasons for themselves. I simply don't see the need > > > to rank order them, when that does nothing to make me appreciate them > > > any more. > > > > > >-- Ife > > > > Well, in that respect you are most unusual, because it is, I think, a > > normal > > > > human tendency to have favourites and to make comparisons. >> > > You sayin' I ain't "normal" or "human"? A robot maybe? Humph. I suppose > it could be all that garlic I've been consuming lately .... > > > >But anyway, mentioning Rate-a-Xena illustrates that many > > > > fans do like to compare or 'score' episodes, even though the site does - > > quite rightly - warn that the exercise is for fun only.>> > > Well, if we're talking overall quality of eps, I'd have no trouble choosing > the DEBT I&II. I do indeed have eps I return to often. But we were > talking whole seasons. Yes, and admittedly seasons are more variable than episodes, but it's still relatively easy for most of us to decide if, on the whole, we really like a particular season or aren't so bothered about it. For example, I know that I like Seasons 3, 5 and 6 much better than Seasons 1,2 or 4 (and this notwithstanding that my favourite ep - Sin Trade - and my favourite fight - in Between The Lines - are in S4. It's just that other than Sin Trade, Endgame and Ides, there aren't *any* other eps in S4 that I rate in my 'favourites' list. I find all the others rather weak. On the whole, there are more hours of enjoyable watching in S5 than in S4 - for me). > Even with the eps, though, I have problems rating > "favorites." While I love the DEBT, SIN TRADE and many S3&4 dark eps, I > find myself watching some of the comedies over and over -- from all the > seasons. So, there's eps that are favorites in every respect, but I don't > watch that much, and eps that are favorites in terms of how often I view > them, but which I don't necessarily think are that great in overall > quality. I don't feel like hurting my brain ("normal" or not) trying to > split hairs on which eps are "more" or "most" favorite. That seems odd. I have no trouble in deciding which are my favourite eps and they're the ones I'll wear out the tapes on. Other than a fear of over-familiarity, I just can't understand why you would choose to watch a not-too-great ep more than a favourite ep. > > And coming back to S1 vs later seasons, yes there are episodes in S1 that > > I can enjoy watching - though not, I think, as many as in some later > > seasons. > > Now that I have the DVDs for all the seasons, I'm astounded at how many I > rewatch from S1, as compared to the seasons that stand out for me -- S3&4. > At first I thought it was because of nostalgia or that they seemed > "fresher" because I hadn't seen them in awhile. Now I wonder if it's > because they're so "simple" compared to later seasons. As you know, I love > noodling the philosophical questions. When the show was airing, I'd sit > down in anticipation of something provocative that we might hash out for > weeks. Ah, but then I don't particularly care for 'simple' in itself. I like dark ;) > Now, sometimes it's nice just to enjoy a straight-forward, self-contained > story -- no "baggage" in terms of antecedents, psychological or mega-arc > stuff. X&G come across a problem, they solve it. X kicks butt, G does her > cheerleader thing. Simple. I turn if off satisfied and move on. My > hindsight viewing is way different in many respects, in terms of what I > want to watch and why, now that I have a choice in which to pick. On rainy > days when I want to get totally absorbed again, I turn to the darker eps > from later seasons. Again, I truly enjoy the earlier ones for different > reasons than the later ones and am very glad I have them all to choose > from. > > -- Ife You know what? Looking over the list of S1, I can't see one ep that rates higher than 'fairly good' on my personal scale. Not even 'Callisto' (because I reckon it's Callisto's weakest and least interesting appearance, and besides, I was just coming to terms with the irritations of Gabs and they did it again with Joxer...). Possibly 'Royal Couple of Thieves' stands out as one of my favourite comedies (but then, I prefer 'dark' to comedies any day). There's nothing in S1 that's really dark in terms of Xena's character, either - nothing to compare with her letting Callisto die in the quicksand in Return of Callisto, for example. (Lest anyone think I'm being unduly harsh in my judgements, I'm comparing S1 with other Xena seasons, not with the usual dreck on TV - it's a tough standard of comparison). Whereas S2 has Return of Callisto, Intimate Stranger, Ten Little Warlords, Destiny, The Quest, ANE, Lost Mariner.... for a while in the middle of the season it was really rocking, it just fizzled a bit towards the end. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V5 #25 *************************************