From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V5 #22 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Wednesday, January 26 2005 Volume 05 : Number 022 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Favorite Seasons ( was Re: Xena, Herc in Kids' Movies ... [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena And Gab return as Elektra [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena above all the imitators ["Xena Torres" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Favorite Seasons ( was Re: Xena, Herc in Kids' Movies ... On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 18:14, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > As to the "relative kick," I just can't see the series as "static" or > one-dimensional. I think the first season did an excellent job of laying > the groundwork, of establishing basic themes we'd see throughout the > series. I think Lucy did an excellent job of portraying Xena at that point > in Xena's life and Lucy's early sense of the character. I think ROC > portrayed the naive, exhuberant Gabrielle who was needed at that early > stage. While I found later seasons more dramatically interesting and the > actors' performances more demanding, that doesn't make the accomplishments > of S1 "less than." I still enjoy it for itself, just as I enjoy later > seasons for themselves. I simply don't see the need to rank order them, > when that does nothing to make me appreciate them any more. > > -- Ife Well, in that respect you are most unusual, because it is, I think, a normal human tendency to have favourites and to make comparisons. Admittedly these are subjective and usually difficult to quantify and impossible to 'prove'. For example, I would say that 'Sacrifice' was a far superior ep to 'Tsunami' and I think 99% of fans would probably agree with me - - but I can't 'prove' it. I'm only confident in saying that because the difference in quality between the two eps is large. I could point to specific differences - in plot, in dialogue, in the characters (e.g. Sacrifice had Ares and Callisto, Tsunami didn't) but each of those would just be a value judgement and hence subjective anyway. With two closer eps - say Xena Scrolls vs Miss Amphipolis - I wouldn't care to say which is 'better' (in my opinion) and I doubt if there would be a clear majority of fan opinion one way or the other. (For what it's worth, the most recent copy of Rate-a-Xena cached on my hard drive gives Xena Scrolls 7.38 and Miss Amphipolis 7.01, which indicates a preference but not a strong one). But anyway, mentioning Rate-a-Xena illustrates that many fans do like to compare or 'score' episodes, even though the site does - quite rightly - warn that the exercise is for fun only. And coming back to S1 vs later seasons, yes there are episodes in S1 that I can enjoy watching - though not, I think, as many as in some later seasons. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 08:41:26 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] More on Morris/Najara On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 18:14, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 1/24/2005 12:33:06 AM Pacific Standard Time, > > cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > > One of the things that makes many eps of 'Herc' watchable for me, > > is the strength of the secondary characters, more often women than men, I > > think. > > Crap. I may have to watch more of Herc if the series comes back on a > channel I get. > > -- Ife I assume you mean 'crap' in what I take to be the American sense of 'Bother!' (NZ translation 'Bugger!'), rather than the New Zealand meaning of 'crap' which is 'nonsense' or 'rubbish' ? cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 08:19:10 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena And Gab return as Elektra On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 18:14, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 1/24/2005 2:19:04 AM Pacific Standard Time, > > cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > > I'm not suggesting that Xena wouldn't bother to squash Najara > > when necessary - just that I don't see Najara being able to cause Xena so > > much trouble in doing so. > > Okay, you don't see her as physically imposing enough to cause Xena > trouble. Cool. I'm suggesting Najara's physical aspects weren't that > important, that it was Xena who gave Najara the power to fool her and let > her guard down sufficiently to get beaten. But if you don't accept that > Xena could ever be in such a mental frame, then I can see why the Najara > thing isn't credible to you. From what you've said, you don't accept that > the vision could make Xena do most of the "uncharacteristic" things she did > quite a bit of in S4. I think that's the crux of our different views. > > -- Ife You're partly right about my views ;) I do accept that Xena's worry over the Vision could distract her to the point where, for example, one of her usual formidable adversaries such as Ares might be able to outwit her. But I also think that, worried though Xena might be the rest of the time, once she started fighting her usual instincts would come back, and the distraction would be much less. Possibly it might just make enough of a difference that a formidable opponent (like Callisto or, again, Ares) might be able to outfight her. But not sufficiently that Najara could because Najara (IMO!) is just not in the same class - just not nearly formidable enough. Incidentally, distracted though Xena was in Season 4, that didn't stop her from out-guessing Satrina in Past Imperfect for example, or Pompey *and* Caesar in A Good Day, or solving the mystery in Takes One to Know One, or outmanouvreing Pompey in Endgame and Caesar in Ides (and she would have pulled off the rescue if Callisto hadn't taken a hand). She really only fell short tactically or physically in Crusader, Daughter of Pomira, and Paradise Found. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 08:44:50 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena above all the imitators On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 05:42, Xena Torres wrote: > >OK, I stand corrected. Not one of the more memorable eps, for me. > > Oh, same, but when you do the transcripts, the episodes are BURNED into > memory. ;) So I should imagine ;) > >Ah, I hadn't realised they'd changed it. I must watch more carefully. > >Another reason to like Season 5, no? > > The most observant cr didn't notice!? ACK! You got check out "Amphipolis > Under Seige" boy! Umm, maybe that's why I didn't notice - I was dazzled by the light reflecting off Athena's archers' underwear > Oh yes, Jane Holland made a WONDERFUL and brilliant > edition to Ngila Dickson's amazing design (admire the arm bands that make > tiny Lucy look like she's got massive muscles). Xena's leather was changed > in two way: The outside 'gurter' and it became black leather, rather than > the brown we were so used to. > BATTLE ON XENA! Hmm, I remember everyone saying how Jane Holland couldn't live up to Ngila's standard - though that was more with reference to Athena's tinfoil archers than Lucy et al, I think. Myself, thinking over Xena's cossie when she walked out of the sea in Return of the Valkyrie, her bikini in Friend in Need, her (Varia's?) Amazon cossie in Dangerous Prey, and even her big blue coat in mid-Season 5 which IMO did a very good job of concealing her pregnancy - then I think Jane Holland did an excellent job. Mind, having Lucy to hang the clothes on doubtless helped cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 11:01:16 -0800 From: "Xena Torres" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena above all the imitators >Umm, maybe that's why I didn't notice - I was dazzled by the light >reflecting >off Athena's archers' underwear ROTFLMAO! And anyone notice the little hole in the back of Ilanius' skirt? >Hmm, I remember everyone saying how Jane Holland couldn't live up to >Ngila's >standard - I think Jane Holland did an excellent job. Mind, having Lucy >to hang the clothes on >doubtless helped Jane is VERY talented and very much lived up to Ngila. Gab's outfits were way cooler when she lost the BGSB, and that credit goes to Jane. The costumes in FIN are stunning. The enhancement of Xena's outfit. Jane did a lot of great work, and I look forward to seeing her work in Boogeyman when she gets to dress Lucy again. ;) BATTLE ON XENA! Xena Torres: Warrior Writer http://www.geocities.com/bitchofrome "And most importantly, I've learned that the heart can betray, but the sword never lies." - Eve "Heart of Darkness" ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V5 #22 *************************************