From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V5 #18 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Saturday, January 22 2005 Volume 05 : Number 018 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena and Gab return as Elektra [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena, Herc in Kids' Movies book [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena above all the imitators [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena above all the imitators [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena above all the imitators ["Xena Torres" ] Re: [chakram-refugees] More on Morris/Najara [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena above all the imitators ["Xena Torres" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena and Gab return as Elektra On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 09:38, Mirrordrum wrote: > hiyo all-- > > check out the studio stills for elektra. deja vu all over again, que no? > and don't miss the "7 more studio stills" link just below the pics on this > page. > > http://imdb.com/title/tt0357277/photogallery > > looks interesting, but it ain't xena. and garner sure ain't lucy nor has > she got gab's abs!!! > > md Actually, the first time I saw a poster for 'Daredevil' (with Jennifer Garner as Elektra on it) I thought it was Jennifer Sky! Just something about the angle of the shot and her long hair looked remarkably like Amarice. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 10:13:48 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena and Gab return as Elektra On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 10:12, Mark B. wrote: > hiyo all-- > > check out the studio stills for elektra. deja vu all over again, que no? > and > don't miss the "7 more studio stills" link just below the pics on this > page. > > http://imdb.com/title/tt0357277/photogallery > > looks interesting, but it ain't xena. and garner sure ain't lucy nor has > she > got gab's abs!!! > > md > > > > Yeah, it sure ain't any part of our dynamic duo, but I guess we get > desperate and will be willing to watch anything close just for some type of > release from our ongoing mental anguish, huh? > > One pic showed Garner with what looked like one of those hi-tech 'archers > of Artemis' compound bows. Yep... grabbing at straws aren't I. > > > Mark B. Well, I've seen Seasons 1-2 of 'Alias'... Jennifer Garner's good as Sidney Bristow but I agree, she ain't Lucy. The series is fast-paced, maybe a little too fast-paced to really pull the viewer in. But it's the next best thing, post-Xena (and post-Farscape...) But anyway, those compound bows were also used by the centaurs to pincushion Callisto in Maternal Instincts - but I thought they looked very anachronistic. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 10:33:49 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena and Gab return as Elektra On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 11:07, meredith wrote: > > >looks interesting, but it ain't xena. and garner sure ain't lucy nor has > > she got gab's abs!!! > > Well ... no, but only Lucy and Renee are Lucy and Renee. Somehow, Lucy (as Xena) really grabs my attention. I care what happens to her (Xena that is). Very few other on-screen characters do that for me. Maybe Chiana in 'Farscape' (which is almost incongruous because Chiana is at best a very reluctant hero and by no means the main character). > I'm planning on going to see _Elektra_ on opening night because I am a huge > Jennifer Garner fan, and Elektra was the only good thing about > _Daredevil_. Without X:WP there would probably be no Elektra movie (heck, > probably no _Alias_ either, and hence no career for Jen), for which I'm > grateful. But I'm not going to dismiss it out of hand just because Elektra > "is no Xena or Gabrielle". There was only one Xena and Gabrielle, and it's > time to appreciate the characters whose way they paved. I agree with you about 'Daredevil'. Alias - I have Seasons 1-3 on DVD, I'm part-way through S2 at the moment. It certainly started with a blockbuster episode in the premiere. Since then, it's interesting (though it suffers occasionally from a repetivie format - Sidney Bristow gets sent off to some exotic location to steal some piece of secret gear - doesn't SD6 have *any* other operatives? But still, Jennifer Garner is good in the part, and there's plenty of irony (I'm a sucker for irony!) generated by the fact she's working for two opposing agencies. *** SPOILER WARNING !!! ***** The moment I remember best was in 'Q&A' where Sidney was cornered in a car on a wharf, surrounded by police - she took her sunglasses off and she had a hunted, desperate look in her eyes that somehow reminded me of Xena's look in 'Sin Trade' though the circumstances were very different... The character I find most intriguing, though, is Lena Olin, as Sidney's mother - enigmatic, always very calm and self-controlled. (PLease nobody spoil me with what happens to her...) cr ... hoping this isn't too OT... (Well, the list mistress likes Jennifer Garner so I'm banking heavily on that ) ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. 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Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 12:30:48 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena And Gab return as Elektra On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 16:16, Cheryl Ande wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mirrordrum" > > > to me, these slanky outfits can never compare with xena's leather look. i > > frankly don't think most women have the personal strength to carry it off > > so > > they use skin tight and,..." with lucy, i don't believe you could put her > > in anything that she > > wouldn't subsume to herself as character. or possibly just to herself. i > > suppose that's yet another reason i hate those effing maxim-type shots. > > but that's my problem, certainly not hers. > > Actually the Xena outfit though many people as refer to it as sexy wasn't > really all that sexy. Her boots are very utilitarian and the skirt and > armor made Lucy seem heavy that she really is - actually the costume seemed > as practical as Xena. As for the Maxim shots - look at them as Lucy > playing sexy - just another character. > > CherylA> I totally agree. I dislike that leather armour - don't think it makes her look sexy at all. Skinny waist, big butt. I think almost any other costume Xena wore, is better in that regard (and I even include the sack-like dressing gown she was wearing at the end of The Debt). cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 12:23:28 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena And Gab return as Elektra On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 07:29, Xena Torres wrote: > >As for Garner's fights being better than Xena's well they should be. > >Garner is on a major network >series with the money that goes with it. > >Hopefully they can take more time choreographing their >fights. Remember > >Lucy and Ren would learn their fights sometimes the day of shooting and go > >off >and film. I'm sure Jen has the luxury of a bit more prep time. > > Nope. Jen is in the same boat. There's NO extra time, no matter how much > money you have. You still have EIGHT days to shoot, and a show like Alias, > you in fact must shoot MORE in that time, meaning Jen probably learns her > fights with even LESS time. > > The big difference is that the Alias fights are REALLY brutal and usually > play with no music which actually adds to the intensity (oooh, the fight > between Allison and Sydney in "The Telling" - WOW!) The Alias fights are > COMPLETELY different than the Xena fights, both in style and in how they > are shot. The show is also filmed with reg film and then transfer to > digital which really enhances the image. > BATTLE ON XENA! Hmmm, well they say comparisons are invidious. As a fan of both Lucy and Jennifer Garner (a bigger fan of Lucy, if I had to choose) I'm not sure I'd care to choose between Xena and Sidney in the quality of the fights. As for which fights are tougher on the actors, I find it hard to say because I've never really observed fights from that point of view. For example, my favourite fight, between Xena and Alti in Between The Lines, is one in which Xena gets most thoroughly beaten up - but analysing it, most of that was done by makeup and special effects, with little physical wear and tear on the actors. One fight that did impress me from the point of view of Xena's 'moves' was the one early in Sin Trade where she came on the young dead Amazon and fought off Alti's thugs - that was very athletic and well choreographed (but some of that may have been a double). Damn! That's yet another thing I'm going to have to bear in mind when watching XWP and Alias in the future - how much 'work' is the actress doing in the fight? cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 12:40:07 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Charles Mesure On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 16:06, Cheryl Ande wrote: > Spotted Charles Mesure on Lost tonight. He was a cad and a woman beater, > although I have to say I would beat Shannon too just on general principles > (don't get excited I don't approve of beating women or anyone else for that > matter). Only bats, apparently. 8-( > Cheryl Batslayer ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 08:55:01 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena, Herc in Kids' Movies book On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 15:33, KLOSSNER9@aol.com wrote: > I just bought The Rough Guide to Kids' Movies, by Paul Simpson, > a 2004 British book. Despite its title it has some entries on TV > shows as well as films. Simpson's entry on Xena begins with > the wrong title and the wrong dates -- > Xena the Warrior Princess (1995-1998) > "Another day, another defilement" ... Odd, that he should choose a quote from Autolycus (what was it, Key to the Kingdom?) which appears to have very little connection with the theme of the series as a whole.... > yes, Xena the Warrior > Princess has always been a bit different. Lucy Lawless became > a lesbian icon as the heroine of this odd, yet riveting series which > was originally a spinoff from Hercules: the Legendary Journeys, > but by the late 1990s had become a bigger pop culture phenomenon > than the X-Files. Well, at least he got that right > The plot has Xena set aside her bad old bloodthirsty ways to roam > the world with a fast-talking village girl and have a rollicking good > time. Strange, I never thought of Xena as having a 'rollicking good time'... I think the guy must have missed a few episodes. Like Destiny, The Debt, Sin Trades, Between The Lines, Ides, Motherhood, Friend in Need, [plus ~80 more] - - yep, a rollicking good time was had by all.... ;) > Her high-kicking, horse-riding, chakram-throwing adventures are many > and varied-- in one episode she tells a doctor she cannot be "up the duff" > as she so charmingly puts it because she is a "love-free zone." And this is typical of what? It just seems to me to be a rather incongruous example to quote. > While the > show is not consistently brilliant --and it ran for four lengthy series -- > even the weaker episodes have some redeeming features. > As you might have guessed from the name, there's quite a lot of > fighting, hence the UK rating for the video, but most kids of 9 and > older aren't going to be spooked, nor see anything they ought not > to. > Series One is, by popular consent, the best of Xena, though its DVD > reissue is poor quality, and you may prefer to buy it on VHS. > > So there's another commentary by a mainstream critic who doesn't > even know how many seasons there were. And he is wrong that > Season One is considered the best "by popular consent." Where *did* he get that? I don't think even those who were turned off by the Rift in Season 3 (are any of them still around) would contend that S1 out-rated Season 2. I really can't envisage any survey of any group of fans that would put S1 top. > Simpson also has-- > Hercules: the Legendary Journeys (1996) > This American made-for-TV retelling of the story of the son of > Zeus is now more famous for giving the world a warrior princess > -- Xena -- than for anything Kevin Sorbo did in the main role. But > this shouldn't be overlooked. It's not as strange as Xena but it's still > entertaining with, at times, some very scary monsters trying to defeat > the hero. One of its many merits is that the stories don't often stray > too far from the original Greek myths. He's gotta be kidding, I think. I don't recall Nebula featuring in Greek mythology, or Caesar's invasion of Ireland, or King Arthur and Merlin, or the Sumerian gods, or the Norse gods..... in other words, while Herc never got quite as far afield as Chin or Japa, TPTB were almost as free with history in Herc as they were in Xena. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 09:45:07 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena, Herc in Kids' Movies book On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 04:54, S. Wilson wrote: > > in one episode she tells a doctor she cannot be "up the > >duff" as she so charmingly puts it because she is a "love-free zone." > > Okay, someone refresh my memory - when did she say this? I think I need to > turn in my HCNB card. :[ Will someone please open the University of Xena so > we can enroll and keep on top of Xenalogy? Animal Attraction. As she says it, she is nearly choking the healer. Then she says "NOW what's your diagnosis?" and he gasps out "Mood swings". > > Series One is, by popular consent, the best of Xena, though its DVD > >reissue is poor quality, and you may prefer to buy it on VHS. > > Nooo! Season Three!! Season Two rocked the house. Season Six was fantastic. > But Season 1? Formulaic, monster-of-the-week, up until the last few > episodes. The introduction of Callisto was what, IMO, provided the first > steps for XWP to become greater than it had been. It was a gateway that > opened up an entire world of intriguing storytelling constantly looking to > best itself, on a level that TV hadn't seen before. By the time the > cinematic wonder of "Friend" had aired, XWP had become a.ma.zing. I personally agree, S3 (or possibly S5 though I know I'm in a minority there) were the best seasons. But, even in the case of those fans who were turned off by the Rift in S3, I don't think any of them would rate S1 higher than S2. (I suppose now someone will prove me wrong....) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 10:39:23 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena above all the imitators On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 15:59, Cheryl LaScola wrote: > > When I watch Alias, I watch for the story line, but it could be anyone > playing JG's role. She does not have the depth (as someone else wrote) > to make me care about the character. It is a very one dimensional > plane, whereas Lucy delivered so many sides of Xena's character and that > is what evoked the emotional connection in all of us. You know, I agree that Sidney doesn't usually 'get to me' the way that Xena does, and maybe that's partly due to the talent that Lucy has as Xena. But it may also be partly due to the pace and timing of 'Alias' - plot-related developments happen so much faster. I think that makes it harder to get really involved with a character. So I'm not sure, even if Lucy was playing Sidney, whether Sidney would 'get to me' as Xena does. > I honestly don't think a female star has come close to that since Xena. > Cagney and Lacey were flawed characters and perhaps they are the > closest, but not to the uniqueness of XWP > > Loyal to XWP always. Just my humble opinions that I am sure many of you > will take issue with.. > Cheryl But that's what the list is for, isn't it? But mostly I agree with you..... :) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 11:07:59 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena above all the imitators On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 21:26, Jackie M. Young wrote: (snip) > I *really* can't seem to get into Alias at all. Most times I watch, it > seems Gardner is just there as a seat-filler, not really *serious* about > her character(s). I don't see any commitment from her as an actor, even > during last week's ep where she's playing a mind-game with her father. *Most* times you watch? You'll never 'get' the series, or get into it, unless you watch every episode, I think. The plot is that serialised, you do need to watch every ep or you'll miss some background. It may be the most serialised and complex action drama on TV. Having said that, though I like Jennifer Garner, I still have to vote for Lucy as the most intense character on screen. > As for the fights, I haven't seen many, but the ones I have seem to be > "lightweight" compared to Xena's. LL really gave it her all, and that, to > me, in both the character and the fights, made it real. > > As for Morris' Cold Case, the writers seem to be allergic to giving her a > personal side. The cases are interesting, but the character lacks > involvement. Besides, she looks perennially bulimic (figure of speech--I > did NOT say she WAS bulimic!). ;/ Compared to Xena, Morris looks > frail......;/ Yeah, that's what I always say about Najara I could credit Callisto beating Xena up (did she ever, before she became a god? - can't remember, but she has the psychotic intensity); I could certainly credit Alti beating Xena up, Claire has the looks - but Najara? No matter how flaky, I just can't see it.... that's the big drawback in 'Crusader', for me. I could sooner see Jennifer Garner as another Xena, than Najara as another Callisto..... cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 11:10:57 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena above all the imitators On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 19:28, meredith wrote: > I watched _Cold Case_ once because Amber Benson (Tara from _Buffy_) was the > main guest star one week, and despite my love for Amber I only just barely > got through the entire episode. There was absolutely no development of the > main characters, nothing at all to suggest why they were doing what they > do. And Kathryn Morris was an automaton. Not that she had much to work > with -- her character is a stick figure. But really, I expected much more. > > Up until that point, I had never realized just how important an ongoing > story has become to my enjoyment of a television show: the > one-week-one-story, you-can-tune-in-at-any-time format of shows such as > _Cold Case_ has zero appeal for me whatsoever. I need a story that > develops as the season goes on, with steady character development. In > short, I need something like a novel for the small screen. Shows like > _Alias_ and _Lost_ currently give me that ... X:WP definitely did, and > _Buffy_ and the _X-Files_ as well. Yay! I'm with ya!! I like the complications of the ongoing plot developments in 'Alias'. Love the story arcs in XWP Season 3 onwards (I remember a few fans of the earlier seasons who explicitly hated multi-part eps and serialised story arcs. Of course, the story arcs all tended to be the 'darker' episodes, and the intermediate eps frequently didn't have happy endings. And I loved the ongoing story in Farscape... I'm not sure which has the 'stronger' ongoing story, Alias or Farscape. Probably Alias, I think, in that there are virtually no stand-alone eps in it. Certainly either one outdoes XWP in terms of continuity. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 10:58:22 -0800 From: "Xena Torres" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena above all the imitators >*Most* times you watch? You'll never 'get' the series, or get into it, >unless you watch every episode, I think. The plot is that serialised, >you >do need to watch every ep or you'll miss some background. It may be the >most serialised and complex action drama on TV. Yep, yep, yep. Agreed. And I would have to vote Alias higher then Farscape for NEEDING to watch every week, but Farscape had a GREAT carried on story and it was really the same arc from the second season on with the wormholes and all (that was season two, wasn't it?) Alias DOES have stuff from the first season that is brought up in the fourth season, but the running theme now is to COMPLETELY revamp the show every year. Though it keeps it fresh, it's not really the same series it was in season one. There's good things and drawbacks about that. And it's Sydney, not Sidney. ;) >Having said that, though I like Jennifer Garner, I still have to vote for >Lucy as the most intense character on screen. Oh, gods, yes! I love Jen, I love Syd, but NO ONE will EVER, NEVER be as good as Lucy/Xena. It's NOT possible! No character will EVER be as cool as Xena. I'm writing my own TV show, and I STILL think Xena is the best, and I'm REALLY proud of what I've created. ;) But, you just can't make a character as cool and as layered as Xena without making a cheap copy. >I could credit Callisto beating Xena up (did she ever, before she became a >god? - can't remember, but she has the psychotic intensity); I could >certainly credit Alti beating Xena up, Claire has the looks - but Najara? >No matter how flaky, I just can't see it.... that's the big drawback in >'Crusader', for me. I could sooner see Jennifer Garner as another Xena, >than Najara as another Callisto..... Yes. See, I liked Kathryn's performance, but I hated Najara. I didn't buy it. There's only FOUR characters i buy BEATING Xena: 1) Callisto (She's Xena - who never 'beat' Xena as a mortal, only suckered her by targeting kids) 2) Ares (um, he's a god, duh) 3) Livia (Daughter of Xena and Callisto - hell yes) 4) Alti (mystic powers and all - though more her powers then her fighting skills except in BTL) I will alos give an honourable mention to Athena. I think Paris is great, but she's so small, and doesn't have the PRESENCE to convince me she's tough in hand to hand fighting. I blame the costume for this. Adrienne really looked TOUGH in her full Livia outfit. Hudson was INTENSE and even though the outfit should have hindered her and made her look frail, she knew how to over come it! BATTLE ON XENA! Xena Torres: Warrior Writer http://www.geocities.com/bitchofrome "And most importantly, I've learned that the heart can betray, but the sword never lies." - Eve "Heart of Darkness" ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 14:17:08 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: [chakram-refugees] More on Morris/Najara The discussion on "Cold Case" and Kathryn Morris prodded me to revisit my XWP eps. It so happened that I had a S4 disk in my DVD player and that CRUSADER was the next in line for my viewing. First I watched the interview again, where R.J. Stewart says it was one of his favorite eps, but he hadn't heard much positive feedback from fans. I always want to say, "Me! Me! I looooved the Najara eps." Watching Morris, I was reminded of a downside of XWP. The roles for women were so wonderful -- powerful, complex -- that it's hard for me to be satisfied with anything else I see them do. Sure, I like Morris in "Cold Case," but I can't disagree with those who aren't bowled over by the character development. It's not because the show's bad, but because my standard is so high. It's like Lucy's said about her own good fortune at playing Xena -- that it was probably a once in a lifetime opportunity, because they just don't write many roles like that. Morris has her own show, so you'd think she'd have the same chance as Lucy to show her range. Unfortunately, I doubt Morris' character will show in three or more years the range that Najara did in two XWP eps. Najara wasn't the lead, but she was an integral part of the conflict epitomizing S4 (which I also loved). I can well understand why guest actors genuinely enthuse about their unique stints on XWP -- especially the women. What they did was "unforgettable." When I look at "Alias" or "Cold Case" or almost any other show with a female lead, I keep waiting for the actor to break free of the plot or the action, to somehow project something visceral, memorable -- not necessarily on the same level as Xena or Gabrielle, but at least like Callisto, Alti, Lao Ma, Ephiny, M'Lila, Cyane, Najara. It rarely happens for me. It makes me appreciate even more that I got to see these actors in a show that brought out their best. I'm glad they had that chance. But I can't help being a little sad that it could be years -- or never -- that they have another opportunity like that. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 03:36:49 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena above all the imitators On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 07:58, Xena Torres wrote: > >*Most* times you watch? You'll never 'get' the series, or get into it, > >unless you watch every episode, I think. The plot is that serialised, > >you > >do need to watch every ep or you'll miss some background. It may be the > >most serialised and complex action drama on TV. > > Yep, yep, yep. Agreed. And I would have to vote Alias higher then Farscape > for NEEDING to watch every week, but Farscape had a GREAT carried on story > and it was really the same arc from the second season on with the wormholes > and all (that was season two, wasn't it?) I think that was Season 2... gosh, I'm trying to think back. Scorpius and the importance of wormholes first appeared in 'Nerve', wasn't that near the end of Season 1??? One odd phenomenon - I can relate almost any significant incident in Xena to the episode it was in (I exclude a few minor eps I never watch like The Prodigal....) However, I can't be nearly so specific with Farscape, and with Alias I can hardly relate incidents ot the episodes at all. Why is this? I think maybe the less serialised nature of XWP, and the fact that different eps were written/directed by different people, gave them more of an individual flavour and made them easier to distinguish in retrospect. Anyway, yes, Farscape (though it did have some stand-alone eps) was excellent for continuity (better than XWP :) and odd occurrences in some ep would pop up again a season later. I think the one I liked best of all ***** SPOILER WARNING ************** was the casual mention in an early ep of how Crichton's first - umm, experience - with a girl was with Karen Shaw in a pickup truck, and much later, after Chiana had been flirting with Crichton unsuccessfully for two full seasons, they went back in time and it turned out that 'Karen Shaw' was - - Chiana! I loved that! Now, when they wrote that first mention of 'Karen Shaw', did they have that development in mind? - I very much doubt it, but it was so neatly done I can only admire it. (snip) > >I could credit Callisto beating Xena up (did she ever, before she became a > >god? - can't remember, but she has the psychotic intensity); I could > >certainly credit Alti beating Xena up, Claire has the looks - but Najara? > >No matter how flaky, I just can't see it.... that's the big drawback in > >'Crusader', for me. I could sooner see Jennifer Garner as another Xena, > >than Najara as another Callisto..... > > Yes. See, I liked Kathryn's performance, but I hated Najara. I didn't buy > it. There's only FOUR characters i buy BEATING Xena: > > 1) Callisto (She's Xena - who never 'beat' Xena as a mortal, only suckered > her by targeting kids) > 2) Ares (um, he's a god, duh) > 3) Livia (Daughter of Xena and Callisto - hell yes) > 4) Alti (mystic powers and all - though more her powers then her fighting > skills except in BTL) I think I'd agree with that list. I can't think of any others who could convincingly beat Xena. Let me see now - who else did beat Xena anyway? Najara, we've already dismissed . Milo - I just can't see it. Whatever took Xena so long to swat him? Prince Morloch in Dangerous Prey, gave her a good battle. And The Berserker in Sin Trade. But they didn't beat her. > I will alos give an honourable mention to Athena. I think Paris is great, > but she's so small, and doesn't have the PRESENCE to convince me she's > tough in hand to hand fighting. I blame the costume for this. Adrienne > really looked TOUGH in her full Livia outfit. Hudson was INTENSE and even > though the outfit should have hindered her and made her look frail, she > knew how to over come it! > BATTLE ON XENA! Yes. In fact I don't mind Callisto's armour the way I dislike Xena's. (Was it on this list we were discussing armour, or Flawless? - never mind). Xena's armour, IMO, makes her look dumpy - big boobs, big butt, skinny waist. About as sexy as the Michelin Man. :( I like almost everything else that Xena wore, far better than her armour. Callisto's armour doesn't do that, maybe because it doesn't have a waistline, since she has a bare midriff and (dare I say it on this list?) bare midriffs (if the owner is slim) _are_ very sexy. When I noticed it, that is... (and I know Hudson wasn't particularly comfortable in it) - but again, Hudson's intensity usually overshadowed that anyway, so I didn't usually notice the sexy looks, what I noticed was what Hudson was projecting on screen. If that makes any sense... cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 03:58:17 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] More on Morris/Najara On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 08:17, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > > When I look at "Alias" or "Cold Case" or almost any other show with a > female lead, I keep waiting for the actor to break free of the plot or the > action, to somehow project something visceral, memorable -- not necessarily > on the same level as Xena or Gabrielle, but at least like Callisto, Alti, > Lao Ma, Ephiny, M'Lila, Cyane, Najara. Don't forget Amarice! - I liked Jennifer Sky in Cleo 2525, but the role wasn't nearly as good (IMO) as Amarice. To those I would *have* to add, Nebula. I know she was on Herc, but I haven't seen her in such a delicious role in anything else. (And that includes her co-lead status in Cleopatra 2525 and Firefly, and her appearance as a villain in Alias). Nebula was just a classic role, a strong character but fun too (a bit like a female counterpart of Ares, in that respect). > It rarely happens for me. It makes > me appreciate even more that I got to see these actors in a show that > brought out their best. I'm glad they had that chance. But I can't help > being a little sad that it could be years -- or never -- that they have > another opportunity like that. > > -- Ife Err, me too. :) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 18:22:37 -0800 From: "Xena Torres" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena above all the imitators >However, I can't be nearly so specific with Farscape, and with Alias I can >hardly relate incidents ot >the episodes at all. Why is this? I think it helps that Xena has the titles ON THE SCREEN. I can never remember titles of eps when I gotta go look them up. They are just not there. ;) >who else did beat Xena anyway? Najara, we've already dismissed . Milo >- I just can't see it. >Whatever took Xena so long to swat him? Prince >Morloch in Dangerous Prey, gave her a good >battle. And The Berserker in >Sin Trade. But they didn't beat her. *TSK!* Missed TWO! Bellerophon - To Helicon and Back. and Hercules, but ONLY after she had gone through the gauntlet AND because he was helped! HA! >Xena's armour, IMO, makes her look dumpy - big boobs, big butt, skinny >waist. >About as sexy as the Michelin Man. :( ACK! I LOVE Xena's leather outfit! ACK! BATTLE ON XENA! Xena Torres: Warrior Writer http://www.geocities.com/bitchofrome "And most importantly, I've learned that the heart can betray, but the sword never lies." - Eve "Heart of Darkness" ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 23:03:02 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena And Gab return as Elektra In a message dated 1/22/2005 1:34:52 AM Pacific Standard Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > For example, my favourite fight, between Xena and Alti in Between > The Lines, is one in which Xena gets most thoroughly beaten up - but > analysing it, most of that was done by makeup and special effects, with > little physical wear and tear on the actors. You know, I think that's precisely why the fights between Xena and Najara might be my favorite. I felt tension in the fights Xena had with Ares, immortal Cally and Alti because there was always the possibility they could use "otherworldly" powers to beat Xena, if only temporarily. Najara was the first time I felt, "Oh, no, this puny mortal may actually beat Xena!" As I say in another post, it's not because I thought she was so formidable in herself, but because Xena was *letting* her get to her. I wanted to shout, "Xena, snap to it! Stop turning your back on that fool!" To your second point about the special effects, that's what I also like most about the Xena/Najara fights. They were so *personal* in terms of Xena's being played for a fool and Najara believing she was better than Xena, particularly as Gabrielle's guardian. Xena's semi-crazy behavior at the end wasn't just an act. She wanted to knock Najara into that pit with a personal satisfaction (and vengeance) she didn't exhibit when she let Cally die or killed Alti. Except for the "blood" and bruises Xena and Najara had on them, the physical and emotional toll was projected in their absolute disdain for each other, communicated in every expression and move. I give the actors a lot more credit for those kinds of fights, than when a lot of special effects are involved. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V5 #18 *************************************