From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V5 #13 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Tuesday, January 18 2005 Volume 05 : Number 013 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena above all the imitators [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena above all the imitators ["Xena Torres" ] RE: [chakram-refugees] Xena above all the imitators ["Xena Torres" I watched _Cold Case_ once because Amber Benson (Tara from _Buffy_) was the > > main guest star one week, and despite my love for Amber I only just barely > got through the entire episode. There was absolutely no development of the > main characters, nothing at all to suggest why they were doing what they > do. And Kathryn Morris was an automaton. Not that she had much to work > with -- her character is a stick figure. But really, I expected much more. > I can well understand your reaction. It's true, what little we get on the main characters is a dribble. I guess I like the way they mix in historical or cultural aspects, personalize it with those involved, show the backstory on the different perspectives, etc. I think you have to like the detective angle and human-interest aspect to appreciate at all how the main characters respond. Very different from XWP. I'd even grant you that Garner has more charisma than Morris. I wouldn't compare the Lilly character to Xena or Sydney in terms of development. It does surprise me that I actually pay attention to Lilly as much as I do. I have to attribute that to Morris, as I agree the part seems written for a stick figure. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 22:21:18 -0800 From: "Xena Torres" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena above all the imitators >Don't shoot me, Never, but we must agree to disagree. ;) >Take "Cold Files," the show Kathryn Morris (Najar) leads. "Cold Case" - Najara. ;) >We know very little about her character's personal life, and the show >focuses on the lives involved >in cases she's investigating. Yet I care >about her character, Lilly. I'm curious about what's >going on in her head, why she reacts as she does sometimes. I'm just DYING to know more about her! ARG! CC is a TEASE! I'm hoping with the sister we will FINALLY get some REAL insight into Lily's childhood, cause, MAN can TPTB TEASE! ARG! BATTLE ON XENA! Xena Torres: Warrior Writer http://www.geocities.com/bitchofrome "And most importantly, I've learned that the heart can betray, but the sword never lies." - Eve "Heart of Darkness" ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 22:28:25 -0800 From: "Xena Torres" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena above all the imitators >>Not that she had much to work with -- her character is a stick figure. >It's true, what little we get on the main characters is a dribble. I must COMPLETELY disagree with you both. The main characters are VERY well written and VERY powerful, but it's SUBTLE. You just get HINTS, bit by bit in each ep. Lily, for example, clearly comes from a broken home. Her mom obviously wasn't much into caring for the kids (drinker? beater?). Her sister did something unforgivable that seems to be one of the reasons Lily skipped out on the family. But she's a healer. She sees pain and wants to do what she can to fix it. She's tough from her upbringing, but also surprisingly warm (shown best by her cats - one whom has only three legs and the other only one eye). She also seems to have some man issues, likely brought on by the father whom has never been mentioned on the show, but likely did something very bad to her (suggested in the episode with the serial killer hunter). There's LOTS of depth there, but you do need to watch every week and keep your eyes open, because it's just LITTLE pieces dropped here and there, but they add up to SO much more. It's brilliant writing, because it's real. We don't all suffer major chaos every week. Honestly, I didn't much like Kathryn as Najara (but then, the Najara character pissed me off in TPTB's attempt to make her a second Callisto), but watching "Cold Case" I am now a huge fan! And I also salute the writers of "Cold Case" again for tying the show so neatly together. The pilot episode started with Lily working a triple homicide, when she was pulled away into a cold case. A year later, for the season two premiere, we learn that the triple was never solved, and now it's a cold case, and the team brings it to a conclusion. Well done! BATTLE ON XENA! Xena Torres: Warrior Writer http://www.geocities.com/bitchofrome "And most importantly, I've learned that the heart can betray, but the sword never lies." - Eve "Heart of Darkness" ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 22:26:27 -1000 (HST) From: "Jackie M. Young" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Xena above all the imitators On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 21:59:49 -0500, cjlnh@webtv.net (Cheryl LaScola) wrote: >When I watch Alias, I watch for the story line, but it could be anyone >playing JG's role. She does not have the depth (as someone else wrote) >to make me care about the character. It is a very one dimensional >plane, whereas Lucy delivered so many sides of Xena's character and that >is what evoked the emotional connection in all of us. - --*Sorry*, Meredith, XenaTorres, and other Alias lovers--I have to agree with CherylL and Ife. I *really* can't seem to get into Alias at all. Most times I watch, it seems Gardner is just there as a seat-filler, not really *serious* about her character(s). I don't see any commitment from her as an actor, even during last week's ep where she's playing a mind-game with her father. As for the fights, I haven't seen many, but the ones I have seem to be "lightweight" compared to Xena's. LL really gave it her all, and that, to me, in both the character and the fights, made it real. As for Morris' Cold Case, the writers seem to be allergic to giving her a personal side. The cases are interesting, but the character lacks involvement. Besides, she looks perennially bulimic (figure of speech--I did NOT say she WAS bulimic!). ;/ Compared to Xena, Morris looks frail......;/ Just MO, - --Jackie ****************************************************** * Proud to have the same birthday as Lucy Lawless! * * * * "I think New Zealand geographically comes from * * ... Hawai'i." --Lucy Lawless, Late Show, 4/9/96 * * * * JACKIE YOUNG, JYOUNG@LAVA.NET * * * * * ****************************************************** ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 09:12:44 EST From: Richan@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Elektra, Troy and Xena Xena Torres: Warrior Writer writes: The directing was poor and it was NOT the story of the Trojan War. Clearly the writers never READ the book and must have been looking at the cliff notes when they wrote this. Couldn't even get names right or who died and who lived! ARG! BATTLE ON XENA! I have to agree as to your comments on discomfort at it being somewhat far from the traditional version. Then I thought about its capacity to tell a story. I though specifically of Gabrielle telling what really happened to Xena in "The Athens City Academy of Performing Bards," struggling to find the perfect metaphor for a Bachea attack in "A Day in the Life," going from metaphorical phrasing to literal description in "The Quill is Mightier...," trying to stay true to her vision in "The Play's the Thing," and Janice Covington and Melinda Pappas trying to discover what really happened in "The Xena Scrolls." Of the above I think that "The Play's the Thing" fits best for our discussion here. It's about preserving the vision. So how do we arrive at what is the vision. Perhaps Plato said it best. "Reality does not exist around us. Rather it exists as perfect ideals. What we see are simply shadows of these perfect ideals. Hence "Troy" is a somewhat less perfect shadow of the ideal form that exists. Or pehaps we can take a look at what Aristotle says about reality. It is composed of material and a goal. So although you may hear, "Guns don't kill people. People kill people." It's not exactly true. Guns have the goal of killing. That's why you never point a gun or anything that looks like a gun at a police officer. And as for "Troy." you already know what the goal is. So you are the police officer seeing a gun and looking for the expected out come and instead you find out that it is a starter's pistol firing blanks. Still I thought "Troy" was fun and I do like a good squirt gun war. Richan ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 10:27:39 -0500 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] RE; Cold Case > I watched _Cold Case_ once because Amber Benson (Tara from _Buffy_) was the > main guest star one week, and despite my love for Amber I only just barely > got through the entire episode. There was absolutely no development of the > main characters, nothing at all to suggest why they were doing what they > do. And Kathryn Morris was an automaton. Not that she had much to work > with -- her character is a stick figure. But really, I expected much more. > Actually to get evolved with the characters in Cold Case you can't watch the show once. The development of the characters has taken time. It's very much watching people at work with whom you have a professional relationship. As time goes on you get to know about their families and their past histories. In Cold Case we learned very slowly that Lily had a hard childhood, she had some of trauma possibly rape when she was young, she had a boyfriend in that past that was the love of her life, she has a younger sister, a difficult relationship with her mother and two cats (one has one eye and the other three legs). Characters are revealed as they relate to the cases, but the people don't consistently talk about their families or their past. They are by their nature and the nature of their job reticent and we are only given glimpses of what makes them tick. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 17:09:18 -0800 From: "Xena Torres" Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] Xena above all the imitators >Besides, she looks perennially bulimic (figure of speech--I did NOT say she >WAS bulimic!). ;/ >Compared to Xena, Morris looks frail......;/ You know, Morris has actually put on a GOOD amount of weight. I was watching one of two episodes of "LA Firefighters" I had on tape, and spotted, yes, Kathryn Morris, RAIL THIN! Like, Hudson Leick on "Tru Calling" thin. Yikes. Kathyrn looks MUCH better and MUCH healthier with the weight she has on her now. Trust me, even though still small, she's put on a good weight. And I have NEVER considered her frail looking. Soft, but not frail. BATTLE ON XENA! Xena Torres: Warrior Writer http://www.geocities.com/bitchofrome "And most importantly, I've learned that the heart can betray, but the sword never lies." - Eve "Heart of Darkness" ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 17:21:00 -0800 From: "Xena Torres" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Elektra, Troy and Xena I do agree, HOWEVER, you shouldn't say a movie is based on a book when you can't even get some of the SIMPLEST details right. Um, spoiliers for the movie S P O I L E R S P A C E IE: Menelaus was killed in the movie by Hector. ARG! In the fight between Paris and Menelaus in the book, Menelaus wounded Paris and was about to kill him when Aphrodite carried him to safety. Hector did NOT get involved, because he knew that he could save his city by leaving the fight. He was PISSED at Paris for his actions. Even though he didn't want him to die, he didn't want to sacrifice ALL of Troy. Now, I know the movie took out the gods, fine. BUT Menelaus was one of the few leading guys who not only SURVIVED ALL *TEN* YEARS (which the movie made about 10 days - oye!) of the war, but got Helen back and was pretty much the ONLY king who got home safely (so he wasn't killed when he got home, or in the sea or lost at sea). ARG! This was one of the pieces that MOST ticked me off. On the other hand, the movie DID seem to know Roman mythology. The name escapes me right now, but Roman was believed to be founded by one of the Trojan men who escaped when Troy was sacked. He WAS shown in the movie as being handed this sword (that in the movie was a symbol of Troy and as long as a Trojan held it Troy lived - or something like that). BUT, clearly, the book was not read to make the movie. Say it's based on the mythology of the war, which there are MANY DIFFERENT versions of (and LOOOOOOOOOOONGER versions - as Homer only touches on the very final moments of the fight AND stops at the death of Hector - which I found odd). The movie leads to the horse and the fall of Troy which is actually not in the book. Though the book skips the wicked time when the Amazons join the Trojans. ;) There is also a historical aspect that was screwed up, as no one rode horseback back then - only chariots. Which is why, when the Amazon rode in on horseback, the Greeks fled in terror from the *12* of them! ;) I wouldn't have been so miffed if they had NOT said "based on the book written by Homer" and if a few more 'facts' had been right. It's widely believed this was a real life event after all (Troy itself has been found) BATTLE ON XENA! Xena Torres: Warrior Writer http://www.geocities.com/bitchofrome "And most importantly, I've learned that the heart can betray, but the sword never lies." - Eve "Heart of Darkness" >I have to agree as to your comments on discomfort at it being somewhat far >from the traditional version. Then I thought about its capacity to tell a >story. >It's about preserving the vision. So how do we arrive at what is the >vision. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V5 #13 *************************************